EPT
but thanks for the translation.DES Retirement Interview with free - Page 3
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
but thanks for the translation. | ||
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iiN.LifeStyle
United Kingdom2 Posts
 i wish him luck | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
On November 15 2013 12:31 Sawamura wrote: Pretty sure it's the other way round when bw players were retiring to play sc2 and it put a lot of us(maybe people like me ) feeling very unhappy about it . Regardless I disagree about how you encounter a few people who may have a disagreement in what they enjoy put a stop in the chance of coexisting of two different community. Also I am sure this is a matter of you putting a blanket statement on the whole bw community being "sc2 haters" sure I don't like sc2 but that doesn't mean you can come to a conclusion we are all like that. So? How does that make it cool for BW fans to spout the same garbage? For all the elitism BW fans have we sure are just as shitty as the "lolbad SC2 fans" people like to make fun of. It's shameful that a guy saying "haha i love when sc2 gets shit on" has people DEFENDING him. Pathetic. Sad to see everyone is still as stupidly vitriolic as ever. I hope free comes back. Loved this guy even though he had a habit of being bad at all the worst moments , and then only good when he had to beat Zero. Or in the first half of a game against Flash. Ughhh | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
Free was always one of my favorite protoss, even over bisu. Just always such a solid player, like the Yellow or Nada of modern Protoss | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Fazers
736 Posts
gogo! | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
He joked, "my only regret is that I retired before Song Byung-Goo (Stork)" This part is really saddening and the circumstances surrounding his retirement only compounds the feeling. I wish him only the best for whatever he'll do. Thanks for the translations juki! | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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L1ghtning
Sweden353 Posts
On November 15 2013 07:19 Noobity wrote: Sorry, that's a pretty unreasonable thing to say. He could have left it at "I just don't like sc2". You don't talk about loving the bad news about something that other people love, that's disgusting. I came here to read the interview and learn a bit more about a BW pro that I didn't know much about, and this is what I come in to? Not only BW fans shitting on the game I prefer, but shitting on it in a way that is pretty outrageous and being defended? Maybe we'll never be one community after all. You misunderstand the reasons behind why some of us wants SC2 to die. Kespa forced their players to quit BW and play SC2, or retire. SC2 being released was the only reason why Kespa abandoned BW. This SC2 switch has been doing poorly from the getgo. The attendance dropped overnight, and never regained, and the TV viewers dropped significantly as well. Now they have tried SC2 for a while, and they have to start accepting reality. This is why teams are being disbanded and reduced, and this has helped BW to grow back some of what it had, as fans have grown tired of SC2, and went back to BW, and players have returned as well. The more fans and players that return, the more BW grows. The current korean BW scene is pathetic compared to what it was, but it's greater than it has ever been, since Kespa pulled the plug, and all of this is thanks to SC2 losing momentum. This is why some of us wants SC2 to die, because the weaker SC2 becomes, the stronger BW gets. If you're offended by this, it's because you don't understand the rivalry between the two games. You can't pick both games. Some primarily BW fans might watch SC2 too, and they may not want to see SC2 dead, but if they got to choose themselves, then they would prefer Kespa switching back to BW, if it would work out. Basically, I think you're reading it as us wanting SC2 to be dead, simply because "if we can't have a professional scene, then they shouldn't have it either". If someone said it like that, I would understand you, but I think you're making the assumption that BW is completely doomed, when in fact it isn't, and its future is to a great extent linked to the future of SC2. Imagine that Kespa announced today that they were going to abandon their SC2 leagues? This actually happening in the near future isn't very far-fetched, and if it happened, it's not unrealistic that OGN would broadcast some of Sonic's BW leagues. As long as SC2 is going on, this will not happen though, because as long as they support SC2, it's in their best interest to not give BW any attention. The chances of a professional BW league appearing again is very slim, but it could happen, and if it doesn't happen, then anything that goes in that direction is always something. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
Hope he finds success in other paths of life as well. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On November 15 2013 07:19 Noobity wrote: Sorry, that's a pretty unreasonable thing to say. He could have left it at "I just don't like sc2". You don't talk about loving the bad news about something that other people love, that's disgusting. I came here to read the interview and learn a bit more about a BW pro that I didn't know much about, and this is what I come in to? Not only BW fans shitting on the game I prefer, but shitting on it in a way that is pretty outrageous and being defended? Maybe we'll never be one community after all. It's not an unreasonable thing to say, in that it is logically consistent with his feelings about SC2 in general. Your personal feelings about the statement, are a completely different topic: Maybe you need to get out more, but it quite common in the world of sports (or in life in general) for individuals to indicate their like for certain individuals/teams/entities, and similarly their dislike for others. I wasn't aware of such things being labelled as "disgusting," but rather systematically accepted. Granted, sometimes these statements can become decidedly unreasonable (e.g. death threats, etc). Where on the spectrum was this particular statement? I don't know, but I did not find it particularly remarkable one way or another. It may not have been the most enjoyable thing to read for certain people (which by the way, is not the most relevant consideration in this case), but compared to the things that could be, and have been said, on the topic, it is not outrageous at all - and well within rights to state. You may want to reconsider your standards. As to your statement regarding BW and SC2 being one community - I wasn't even aware that that existed as a concept. Am I missing something that makes this a relevant point of discussion? Once upon I time, I made a number of dedicated efforts to watch SC2, despite all initial indications, that it was absolutely terrible. I watched. I watched again. And again...games with my favorite players, on the highest stages, with some of the best English commentators...and by end of it all, there was nothing there. A shell with no content. Everything that made BW great, was gone. There is no significant similarity. If you had to make a game specifically designed to push away BW fans, I don't know that it would necessarily be possible to do better than SC2. Are there original BW fans that are now SC2 fans? Is it possible to be an original SC2 fan, become completely aware of what BW can offer, and remain an SC2 fan? I didn't think so, but it would be disturbing to even think about the possibility, based on a comparison of the 2 games. I don't have any specific enmity towards the SC2 community itself. But rather, SC2 itself, just has absolutely nothing to offer to me. It is boring. I would rather look out my window for 20 minutes than watch an SC2 game. I don't want to see any community information about SC2, in the same way I don't want any community information about women's softball. They both have about the same, essentially non-existent relationship to BW. Would I say I am happy about hearing bad news about SC2? Not specifically, but if you want to specifically reference the concept of "reason," then consider this: In terms of gameplay and eSports viability(e.g. Korean viewership, player base), it is proving a poor game(much worse than BW in these regards). And if a game is sufficiently poor, then it will subsequently fail, and a better game may take it's place. Simple. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
And if a game is sufficiently poor, then it will subsequently fail, and a better game may take it's place. Simple. Unfortunately, a better game won't take its place. It's just going to be games like LoL and shit. But I suppose if SC2 "died" and there was room for a new RTS to fill the niche that is the RTS market, we'd get a better game. So you have a point. There is still a small niche for RTS, which is currently being held by SC2. | ||
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KivTM
Australia90 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On November 18 2013 08:47 vOdToasT wrote: Unfortunately, a better game won't take its place. It's just going to be games like LoL and shit. But I suppose if SC2 "died" and there was room for a new RTS to fill the niche that is the RTS market, we'd get a better game. So you have a point. There is still a small niche for RTS, which is currently being held by SC2. I'm really looking forward to Planetary Annihilation. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On November 18 2013 08:47 vOdToasT wrote: Unfortunately, a better game won't take its place. It's just going to be games like LoL and shit. But I suppose if SC2 "died" and there was room for a new RTS to fill the niche that is the RTS market, we'd get a better game. So you have a point. There is still a small niche for RTS, which is currently being held by SC2. Two things: 1. A game like LoL wouldn't necessarily be better in a gameplay sense, depending on what you think (although I would pick LoL over SC2). However, in Korea at least people are playing and watching LoL - making it successful from a business/eSports standpoint, unlike the case with SC2, where players complain of empty arenas, and the player base is very low. Of course, there are other possibilities as well. 2. There is a niche for RTS games like BW, but I wouldn't say it's being held by SC2, so much as SC2 inherited a large viewerbase from BW, which has mostly just been draining away since then. Remember, that even in the most recent BW Proleagues, and Individual Leagues, viewership was still very high compared to other types of programs - much higher than SC2 currently, needless to say. Other games have since gained popularity, but it would be reasonable to assume that if BW was back in its full incarnation, it would be a lot more popular than SC2 is, in Korea. The "BW type" RTS niche is a lot bigger than it may currently appear, due to the terrible performance of SC2. | ||
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nighcol
298 Posts
On November 18 2013 09:59 miercat wrote: Two things: 1. A game like LoL wouldn't necessarily be better in a gameplay sense, depending on what you think (although I would pick LoL over SC2). However, in Korea at least people are playing and watching LoL - making it successful from a business/eSports standpoint, unlike the case with SC2, where players complain of empty arenas, and the player base is very low. Of course, there are other possibilities as well. If you start to grade games with that methodology, I don't think BW is going to fare all that well either. On November 18 2013 09:59 miercat wrote: 2. There is a niche for RTS games like BW, but I wouldn't say it's being held by SC2, so much as SC2 inherited a large viewerbase from BW, which has mostly just been draining away since then. Remember, that even in the most recent BW Proleagues, and Individual Leagues, viewership was still very high compared to other types of programs - much higher than SC2 currently, needless to say. Other games have since gained popularity, but it would be reasonable to assume that if BW was back in its full incarnation, it would be a lot more popular than SC2 is, in Korea. The "BW type" RTS niche is a lot bigger than it may currently appear, due to the terrible performance of SC2. There was not much to inherit outside of Asia where most of the currently enduring viewership of SC2 is. What was inherited came mostly from WC3. WC3 was not significantly more popular as an esport than SC2, it's the other way around. SC2 was the most popular title in western esports for a while before being eclipsed by the MOBAs. SC2 certainly seems to have failed in Korea (as far as the spectators go, the amount of skilled progamers is unbeliveable) but one thing it most certainly has not done is make the RTS genre as a whole less popular. Quite the opposite. | ||
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jhamas
Peru22 Posts
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miercat
394 Posts
On November 18 2013 17:39 nighcol wrote: If you start to grade games with that methodology, I don't think BW is going to fare all that well either. There was not much to inherit outside of Asia where most of the currently enduring viewership of SC2 is. What was inherited came mostly from WC3. WC3 was not significantly more popular as an esport than SC2, it's the other way around. SC2 was the most popular title in western esports for a while before being eclipsed by the MOBAs. SC2 certainly seems to have failed in Korea (as far as the spectators go, the amount of skilled progamers is unbeliveable) but one thing it most certainly has not done is make the RTS genre as a whole less popular. Quite the opposite. With regards to the grading methodology: BW was very popular in terms of viewership in the most recent Pro Leagues, and maintains a larger player base than SC2, despite the current conditions, making it at least potentially viable in Korea. Whereas SC2 has essentially nothing to rely on - low players, low viewership = nothing. The distinction is very clear, and should be easy to understand. Feel free to ask for more clarification, if you remain confused. With regards to the issue of inherited viewers, I was referring to the cases of the Korean hybrid proleague, and subsequent switch to SC2. As one other forum member has mentioned, after the SC2 switch, viewership in Korea declined overnight, and never recovered anything near close to the numbers BW pulled. If anything, viewership has gotten even worse since then. Certainly SC2 has made the "BW type" RTS genre much less popular in Korea, and this is supported by the statistics. In a culture that embraced gaming, and BW, for many years - where viewership in the last BW Leagues was still very high - the rejection of SC2 is very telling, whatever else you might want to consider. I would even argue, that based on gameplay factors, SC2 is not so much part of the RTS genre, as it is a parody of what the RTS genre could be. Consequently, even the current fans of SC2 are not necessarily supporting, nor apparently aware of, what the RTS genre is, and what it could potentially offer - SC2 took full advantage of the massive hype preceding it's release, to pump up it's apparent popularity very quickly, but does it have the inherent gameplay/entertainment elements - the staying power, to make it one of the most successful RTS games of all time? Will it be one of the most popular games for the next 10 years? Or will it just be the case of an overhyped, underwhelming game, getting quickly brought back to reality. In gaming-culture Korea, we already know the answer. In general though, I am not much uncertain about the answer, either. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
I guess they need to bring back some big BW tournaments for people to be interested in the RTS genre. | ||
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