On August 31 2019 19:51 Alejandrisha wrote: @attackzerg i wish the spoilers had vods in them :p i can't stream afreeca very well. as in not at all. really pisses me off. i really want to see bisu play. anyone have youtube vods?
When I try to watch an Afreeca stream on TL it crashes within 2 minutes. I can watch the streams fine if I open them on the Afreeca website. It still may crash once at the beginning but after restarting it, it works fine.
On September 06 2019 14:23 ggsimida wrote:
On September 05 2019 11:49 PorkSoda wrote:
On September 01 2019 16:31 ggsimida wrote: the most concerning for me is not pvz/pvt but pvp where he seem to have lost his mojo, a matchup that he used to be rain-esque unbeatable in. watched him lost meekly 0-2 to omekim just now.,.
Well he has been in the military for the last year and a half...
his pvz is still class and pvt okish as expected when his old form is taken into account. not pvp though. it has eerie vibes to how JD completely lost his zvz mojo as well. might have been how their stellar mirror matchup quality is due to how finetuned and precise their mechanics are back in the day, which is no longer case in a more casual streamer era
Before going to the military Bisu was rocking a solid 23-3 (88.46%) PvP record in post-kespa tournament games. I'd say he was acceptably proficient in that matchup
i was hesitant to use pre military stats there was a real lack of quality p opposition and total games in general. compare it to rain where he get plenty of wins over snow best stork mini etc..
It really isn't Bisu's fault that no other protoss stepped up. One can only compare him with the opposition that was available at the time. Also, Bisu's stats include 1-0 vs Rain and 3-0 vs Mini.
On August 31 2019 19:51 Alejandrisha wrote: @attackzerg i wish the spoilers had vods in them :p i can't stream afreeca very well. as in not at all. really pisses me off. i really want to see bisu play. anyone have youtube vods?
When I try to watch an Afreeca stream on TL it crashes within 2 minutes. I can watch the streams fine if I open them on the Afreeca website. It still may crash once at the beginning but after restarting it, it works fine.
On September 06 2019 14:23 ggsimida wrote:
On September 05 2019 11:49 PorkSoda wrote:
On September 01 2019 16:31 ggsimida wrote: the most concerning for me is not pvz/pvt but pvp where he seem to have lost his mojo, a matchup that he used to be rain-esque unbeatable in. watched him lost meekly 0-2 to omekim just now.,.
Well he has been in the military for the last year and a half...
his pvz is still class and pvt okish as expected when his old form is taken into account. not pvp though. it has eerie vibes to how JD completely lost his zvz mojo as well. might have been how their stellar mirror matchup quality is due to how finetuned and precise their mechanics are back in the day, which is no longer case in a more casual streamer era
Before going to the military Bisu was rocking a solid 23-3 (88.46%) PvP record in post-kespa tournament games. I'd say he was acceptably proficient in that matchup
On August 31 2019 19:51 Alejandrisha wrote: @attackzerg i wish the spoilers had vods in them :p i can't stream afreeca very well. as in not at all. really pisses me off. i really want to see bisu play. anyone have youtube vods?
When I try to watch an Afreeca stream on TL it crashes within 2 minutes. I can watch the streams fine if I open them on the Afreeca website. It still may crash once at the beginning but after restarting it, it works fine.
On September 06 2019 14:23 ggsimida wrote:
On September 05 2019 11:49 PorkSoda wrote:
On September 01 2019 16:31 ggsimida wrote: the most concerning for me is not pvz/pvt but pvp where he seem to have lost his mojo, a matchup that he used to be rain-esque unbeatable in. watched him lost meekly 0-2 to omekim just now.,.
Well he has been in the military for the last year and a half...
his pvz is still class and pvt okish as expected when his old form is taken into account. not pvp though. it has eerie vibes to how JD completely lost his zvz mojo as well. might have been how their stellar mirror matchup quality is due to how finetuned and precise their mechanics are back in the day, which is no longer case in a more casual streamer era
Before going to the military Bisu was rocking a solid 23-3 (88.46%) PvP record in post-kespa tournament games. I'd say he was acceptably proficient in that matchup
i was hesitant to use pre military stats there was a real lack of quality p opposition and total games in general. compare it to rain where he get plenty of wins over snow best stork mini etc..
It really isn't Bisu's fault that no other protoss stepped up. One can only compare him with the opposition that was available at the time.
On August 31 2019 19:51 Alejandrisha wrote: @attackzerg i wish the spoilers had vods in them :p i can't stream afreeca very well. as in not at all. really pisses me off. i really want to see bisu play. anyone have youtube vods?
When I try to watch an Afreeca stream on TL it crashes within 2 minutes. I can watch the streams fine if I open them on the Afreeca website. It still may crash once at the beginning but after restarting it, it works fine.
On September 06 2019 14:23 ggsimida wrote:
On September 05 2019 11:49 PorkSoda wrote:
On September 01 2019 16:31 ggsimida wrote: the most concerning for me is not pvz/pvt but pvp where he seem to have lost his mojo, a matchup that he used to be rain-esque unbeatable in. watched him lost meekly 0-2 to omekim just now.,.
Well he has been in the military for the last year and a half...
his pvz is still class and pvt okish as expected when his old form is taken into account. not pvp though. it has eerie vibes to how JD completely lost his zvz mojo as well. might have been how their stellar mirror matchup quality is due to how finetuned and precise their mechanics are back in the day, which is no longer case in a more casual streamer era
Before going to the military Bisu was rocking a solid 23-3 (88.46%) PvP record in post-kespa tournament games. I'd say he was acceptably proficient in that matchup
Who is Lazy and why are two of bisu's losses vs him?
I assume "Lazy" was Bisu's attitude going into those games.
haha...i thought it was awesome when people were talking Rain up against Flash and using the fact that he "didn't practice and was lazy" as an argument for Rain. So cerebral!
On September 06 2019 14:08 Alejandrisha wrote: i agree i am a victim of goat fever when it comes to rain's pvp. i wasn't watching bw as much as you were in bisu's peak, jealousy, but was he really able to take down the top protosses effortlessly and win even in so-called bo/losses? and win every mind game alsmost every game. i will look for some vods. do you have a recommended year for bisu's pvp?
Granted, I believe you are exaggerating ("effortlessly" "every game"), but I would say that Bisu's dominance in PvP during the KeSPA era was certainly more important than Rain's in the modern era.
One example of his dominance that comes to mind is the ClubDay MSL. This was during peak "Six Dragons" era. What this means is that there was a confluence of good Protoss maps and good form for six Protoss players - Bisu, Stork, JangBi, Best, Free, and Kal. As a result, the entire top 4 of this MSL was comprised of top Protoss players. Not really a spoiler given the subject matter, but Bisu won. You can see the match-up scores here:
On September 06 2019 14:08 Alejandrisha wrote: i agree i am a victim of goat fever when it comes to rain's pvp. i wasn't watching bw as much as you were in bisu's peak, jealousy, but was he really able to take down the top protosses effortlessly and win even in so-called bo/losses? and win every mind game alsmost every game. i will look for some vods. do you have a recommended year for bisu's pvp?
Granted, I believe you are exaggerating ("effortlessly" "every game"), but I would say that Bisu's dominance in PvP during the KeSPA era was certainly more important than Rain's in the modern era.
One example of his dominance that comes to mind is the ClubDay MSL. This was during peak "Six Dragons" era. What this means is that there was a confluence of good Protoss maps and good form for six Protoss players - Bisu, Stork, JangBi, Best, Free, and Kal. As a result, the entire top 4 of this MSL was comprised of top Protoss players. Not really a spoiler given the subject matter, but Bisu won. You can see the match-up scores here:
On September 06 2019 14:08 Alejandrisha wrote: i agree i am a victim of goat fever when it comes to rain's pvp. i wasn't watching bw as much as you were in bisu's peak, jealousy, but was he really able to take down the top protosses effortlessly and win even in so-called bo/losses? and win every mind game alsmost every game. i will look for some vods. do you have a recommended year for bisu's pvp?
Granted, I believe you are exaggerating ("effortlessly" "every game"), but I would say that Bisu's dominance in PvP during the KeSPA era was certainly more important than Rain's in the modern era.
One example of his dominance that comes to mind is the ClubDay MSL. This was during peak "Six Dragons" era. What this means is that there was a confluence of good Protoss maps and good form for six Protoss players - Bisu, Stork, JangBi, Best, Free, and Kal. As a result, the entire top 4 of this MSL was comprised of top Protoss players. Not really a spoiler given the subject matter, but Bisu won. You can see the match-up scores here:
Bisu was good at PvP but hardly "dominated" the scene. Had a decent win % PvP and he was favorite against most players but you could never put him 100% over say, Stork, Best or even Jangbi. I remeber clearly Bisu vs Stork was a classic PvP matchup but never a dominated one. Since you like statistics:
It really isn't Bisu's fault that no other protoss stepped up. One can only compare him with the opposition that was available at the time. Also, Bisu's stats include 1-0 vs Rain and 3-0 vs Mini.
most of his wins came from the pre-flash era where sea and killer were the top dog players of the time. going by your logic sea and killer would still be stellar players today, but look where they are when they last played recently. mini is generally average in pvp. the pool of players back then weren't different, just smaller. and most of them at that time are still adjusting away from sc2
Someone in Bonyth's stream mentioned that Bisu was recently challenged to a Bo3 sponsored match vs someone who claimed to be China's top Terran player (TL thread about him), I figured its a nice link to put here as well. Of course it wasn't nearly as close a series as those he has vs other Korean pros, but it was a fun watch even just to witness the skills difference.
VOD here, and the Bo3 starts at 45min into the stream.
On September 11 2019 06:03 VioleTAK wrote: Someone in Bonyth's stream mentioned that Bisu was recently challenged to a Bo3 sponsored match vs someone who claimed to be China's top Terran player (TL thread about him), I figured its a nice link to put here as well. Of course it wasn't nearly as close a series as those he has vs other Korean pros, but it was a fun watch even just to witness the skills difference.
VOD here, and the Bo3 starts at 45min into the stream.
I think he did a pretty good job considering he was playing vs. legend but of course all games felt how he was slowly getting choked to death.
Heh the Chinese community is really making good use of current-day opportunities, to play with legends. Pay some money to the streamers and get a Bo3, they're probably doing it with other pros we don't follow as closely as well. And Bisu's viewers love the whole Korea vs China thing, he even puts the national anthem after the wins if I'm not mistaken.
So far Bisu allowed Bo3 from the following Chinese challengers:
Bisu vs Mihu (T) - VOD - Timestamp: 45min Bisu vs CN_Bus (T) - VOD - Timestamp: 26min Bisu vs [SvS]Jedi (Z) - VOD - Timestamp: 1min as stream starts.
I think its really cool, they're playing with one of their heroes, they get very nice replays to study, and they're probably gonna keep throwing $ at Bisu until one of them snags a victory and bragging rights against all the others that failed lol While Bisu's getting the cash plus a fun show for viewers that totally dig the chellenge theme.
On September 12 2019 07:50 VioleTAK wrote: Heh the Chinese community is really making good use of current-day opportunities, to play with legends. Pay some money to the streamers and get a Bo3, they're probably doing it with other pros we don't follow as closely as well. And Bisu's viewers love the whole Korea vs China thing, he even puts the national anthem after the wins if I'm not mistaken.
So far Bisu allowed Bo3 from the following Chinese challengers:
Bisu vs Mihu (T) - VOD - Timestamp: 45min Bisu vs CN_Bus (T) - VOD - Timestamp: 26min Bisu vs [SvS]Jedi (Z) - VOD - Timestamp: 1min as stream starts.
I think its really cool, they're playing with one of their heroes, they get very nice replays to study, and they're probably gonna keep throwing $ at Bisu until one of them snags a victory and bragging rights against all the others that failed lol While Bisu's getting the cash plus a fun show for viewers that totally dig the chellenge theme.
not the national anthem. its this
any korean who remembers watching the 2002 world cup will feel more nationalistic pride from that song than the actual national anthem
Heh that's great, good to know! Today he played it many many times after every China match.
The China top players challenged Bisu for a long sponsored series on today's stream. He will probably release a youtube video about it soon is my guess, because it was quite an event 7k viewers on Bisu's side, and apparently many thousands on the Chinese streams as well.
The whole series is played match by match in this VOD, a few hours long, from Bisu's point of view. Or if you want to see the Chinese observer point of view of both sides, you can watch it here.
So apparently on the Chinese streams they had 1 observer stream and one copy of Bisu's FPVOD stream, plus a couple other top players commentating on other streams, and someone in chat said they were having over 13k total viewers in China, though I don't know if that was true. But so nice to see China has such an active BW scene going. They were all writing a lot of admiration messages about Bisu during the series.
On September 16 2019 17:40 Shock710 wrote: Bisu is just a god at broodwar, god damn it took them to have team melee vs bisu solo to win and bisu even won a game. Thats pretty insane.
How strong are the chinese players compared to our foreign scene?
Historically speaking, they are stronger, but it's hard to say now. I'd probably still give the upper echelon of Chinese players over the rest of the top foreigners, but the margin isn't that great.
WCS
