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BW General Discussion - Page 84
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On November 30 2014 12:47 amazingxkcd wrote: it's not impossible to enjoy both games, despite the massive flame wars that TL members have over each game. Just try BW out on iccup or fish and see how it goes for you. Just don't expect to win a game on iccup for a long long time (BW is extremely hard compared to sc2) i strongly disagree with the not win for a long time statement if you play sc2 and pair yourself up with a decent bw player if you're not too slow / dumb you can start killing people pretty fast i say you can get your first win within 40 first games if someone teaches you it's just you have to devote maybe more time than sc2 but on the other hand the games are much more fun and dynamic so you wont get bored yeah bw is the only game i know that can't get me bored no matter how many games i play | ||
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
sc2 player here but im kinda tempted to check it out or at least play through the campaign and whatnot but where can you even get a game that old these days:L | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On November 30 2014 23:27 Enigmasc wrote: hey guys, casual question here but where can you actually pickup broodwar from legitamatley thesedays? sc2 player here but im kinda tempted to check it out or at least play through the campaign and whatnot but where can you even get a game that old these days:L Buy it directly from b.net website? Or maybe they still available in bargain bins in your country | ||
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
guess i could just try amazon or something | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9517 Posts
But yeah, Blizzard could've made it a little bit more visible ^^ | ||
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YumYumGranola
Canada346 Posts
The world is well again. | ||
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broodwar2.0
Niue229 Posts
On November 30 2014 23:00 Boonbag wrote: i strongly disagree with the not win for a long time statement if you play sc2 and pair yourself up with a decent bw player if you're not too slow / dumb you can start killing people pretty fast i say you can get your first win within 40 first games if someone teaches you it's just you have to devote maybe more time than sc2 but on the other hand the games are much more fun and dynamic so you wont get bored yeah bw is the only game i know that can't get me bored no matter how many games i play depands if u know what ure doing or not ie if u have good micro/macro/mechancis @ sc2 u just need to adapt to broodwar should not be to hard on the other hand if u have no clue wtf ure doing probably counts for 80% of sc2 casual gamers ure just gonna get crushed on iccup for the next 200 games  | ||
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GoShox
United States1842 Posts
On November 30 2014 07:07 KDot2 wrote: I really want to play BW but I dont want it to completely ruin SC2 for me because I've loved it for so long and I feel like I might lose enjoyment in SC2 is the BW scene big enough to justify coming to BW ? TL clans or people to play with ? If you really like SC2 then playing BW shouldn't ruin it for you. If you're worried about that then you should reconsider if you really like the game. I think that a lot of the love for Brood War stems from high level play. Stuff like the amount of multitask required for certain builds, how fun some builds are, and just how fun the game is at a competitive level. But if you're coming from SC2, you're not really gonna see this immediately. You're gonna see an older game where you can only control 12 units at a time, you can only select 1 building at a time, and a game where the pathing can be quite odd. Units like Reavers are still really fun to control, but BW can be quite hard to get into when it comes to playing instead of just watching. It's the same thing when going from a newer game to an older game of any type. That said, if you're at a decent level in SC2, it wouldn't take too long to win your first BW game. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
2 Dec 2014 8pm GMT+8 Guemchi v Fengzi BO5 maps :Soul_of_Fighter_1.3;Electric_Circuit_1.0Jade_2.0.scx;MatchPoint_1.3；CircuitBreakers_1. prize winner:400 RMB loser :100 RMB stream address: http://kan.sina.com.cn/u/2446697112 VOD after match: http://i.youku.com/chinaosl | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/87957-wl-spoilers-guemchi how is he doing now tho? | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
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Yuyan
2 Posts
I'm curious with the relative success coming from the mixing of StarCraft II and Brood War that created the mod: Starbow. I was curious to ask for the opinions of the brood war fanatics that lurker in these parts. If you don't know, recently LotV adopts many of the common criticisms of StarCraft II, for example, lack of micro, and probably most radically, the revamping of the game's economy. Though the exact origin for blizzard's response for this radical change has even been specified, "the community" is a commonly loosely tossed term used in balance conversations, but when it reality many of these fundamentals originated from Brood War. I bring this about not because whether or not what they are doing currently actually satisfies the needs in the eye's of a brood war fanatic, but merely just make the very basic fact there is want to change StarCraft dynamically even if that means resurrecting old fundamentals. Blizzard's idea of racial balance is basically the eye candy and action on screen. Whichever creates the most amount of excitement on screen. Clearly they have awoken from the negligence from years back and looked at why Brood War had it's fanbase and still retains some of it. Reviewing pro opinions also reveals an overall acceptance of these changes even if they don't agree with it. Which taking this one step further, it is the pro players obligation participate in tournaments for a chance to reap the heaps of cash prizes and the fame from thousands of viewers continuing yearly sponsorship contracts. It would seem at least, from what people are expecting, change, radical change will not only add interest of veterans and newcomers alike but also create more volatile and fun games to watch. How does this relate to Starbow and Brood War? Well, if general consensus and audience viewership would grow upon the release of LotV it would seem change, change for the better, change making players doing things based off a skill will make the spectator ship much more interest in watching the game. What if we purposed the idea to further "patch" brood war? However, my interpretation of patching, or updating is not of the conventional sense, because brood war in the eyes of any is a perfect and masterful piece of strategic balance, so changing the core game structure would not make any sense. So I would propose the idea of gradually incorporating new options, for different methods of play for allowing for more dynamic play between each match ups. A repeat problem in StarCraft II is the constant modification of current units that drastically changes the game so much, old strategies no longer work, but yet, at the same time, map pools also play a huge role in this; actually more so in Brood War. If you look at the last balance patch of Brood War: 1.08. They changed so much, StarCraft II they never change more than 3 units at any given time, except in Beta or Alpha stage. Yet, the fact they changed so much in 2001 and left the game to just balance itself out over the years. Though, similar to StarCraft II, you can't take a standard 1999 Strategy on a 2003 map, or a 2002 Strategy on Fighting Spirit, it just won't work. Why? More closed off maps, additional choke points, the addition of two base place to a small natural to defend, ect. It would seem I have just completely contradicted my previous statements, true, for I am merely just seeing what dictates balance change. But, basically the map pools of Brood War would seem to have balanced the game out, with no blizzard intervention whatsoever, then who intervened? Well the community, the players, and well, more specifically the map designers. That might be one explanation as to why when Rose.of.Dreams released a map pack a few year(s)? back everyone was hyped because might very well be the most well versed in understand StarCraft 1's balance period. The question would be would this ever feasible. Brood War seems to have this perfect balance, but is this perfect balance based upon blizzard's genius balance strategy or the community fostering and catering the games balance directional path over the years with a map pool with those who truly understand the games strategic depth and could we ever add an expansion with new units, new abilities, a potential new component, with a custom map? Who knows, but it would be interesting to see what people opinions are out there. - Yuyan | ||
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DjKniteX
United States241 Posts
On November 30 2014 07:07 KDot2 wrote: I really want to play BW but I dont want it to completely ruin SC2 for me because I've loved it for so long and I feel like I might lose enjoyment in SC2 is the BW scene big enough to justify coming to BW ? TL clans or people to play with ? I play both. I started with BW but only for campaign then SC2 for multiplayer. Came back to BW and I'm at like a 2-15 record right now on iccup, I'm like super terrible yo, if you wanna play with a noob shoot me a message! I still like both games. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On December 02 2014 02:32 Yuyan wrote: [Serious Discussion] I'm not sure what you want to discuss. 1. Stance towards Blizzard: Today's Blizzard and the developer of BW are not the same. The latest stuff I heard from Blizz was copyright fights, hybrid proleague, demands from Sonic at the worst time ever. Hence: Well I don't care for that company anymore, they can do just w/e, I'll ignore it. Any positive image I had of them is gone. Long gone. 2. What should be changed in SCII to suck me into it? Nothing, I have BW and BW is fine the way it is. I don't need a 2.0 version. All I'd care about would be the story, yet the WoL Story was so... terrible, I don't want to find out I have to add a George Lucas to Blizz's long list of shit stuff as well. 3. Did maps balance BW? Probably. Hard to say, not sure what you include here. BGH? Possi? Fun maps you can play competitively? Island Maps? 4. Is community work impossible in SCII cause of changes? Was worse at the start with no chat channels and stuff. No idea, don't care anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if it was way harder to get mods, campaigns and whatnot out in the new eSports srs biz world nowadays. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 02 2014 02:32 Yuyan wrote: [Serious Discussion] ...What if we purposed the idea to further "patch" brood war? However, my interpretation of patching, or updating is not of the conventional sense, because brood war in the eyes of any is a perfect and masterful piece of strategic balance, so changing the core game structure would not make any sense. I'm not sure everyone would agree that BW has "perfect" balance. Some might, but others would say the balance is merely good, not perfect. | ||
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broodwar2.0
Niue229 Posts
On December 02 2014 07:06 [[Starlight]] wrote: I'm not sure everyone would agree that BW has "perfect" balance. Some might, but others would say the balance is merely good, not perfect. reaching balanced winning ratio's of 51/52/53% on matchups by progamers in some maps... uuh wait what merely good sure dude sure | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 02 2014 07:11 broodwar2.0 wrote: reaching balanced winning ratio's of 51/52/53% on matchups by progamers in some maps... uuh wait what merely good sure dude sure Ppl here have told me it's more like 55/45 or more overall. Many ppl seem to agree that T>Z>P>T is a thing, they just disagree as to what extent. And of course, it's not only about racial balance... for instance, there's a lot of units that are almost never used, some strats that almost never get used, and some matchups that seem caught in a straightjacket. T in TvP is almost always about tank-vulture, for instance. I don't even remember what scouts look like, ditto ghosts, DAs, devourers, queens, etc. etc. I'm sure most ppl here can identify of at least one thing balance-related that bothers them. Btw, 'good' is a compliment. It just falls short of 'perfect', that's all. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
Race Stats (non-mirrors): TvZ: 148-139 (51.6%) ZvP: 134-117 (53.4%) PvT: 143-137 (51.1%) Theres a reason why people still play this map today ad-nauseum, its proven to be the most balanced map there is. its probably closest there is to perfect balance (though you can still argue about close spawns or game being different at low level but stats don't lie) blizzard's genius balance strategy HAHAHA. blizzard fanbois plz. A poster with only 2 posts coming here to give such a post? I think its obvious a troll. go back to your casual sc2. btw the current brood war revival is more or less centralized within korea. do you think the koreans would even care about what some sc2 poster tinkering game balance, the same koreans who have lived and breathed BW unlike you? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 02 2014 09:02 Probemicro wrote: Fighting Spirit at the highest level Race Stats (non-mirrors): TvZ: 148-139 (51.6%) ZvP: 134-117 (53.4%) PvT: 143-137 (51.1%) Theres a reason why people still play this map today ad-nauseum, its proven to be the most balanced map there is. its probably closest there is to perfect balance (though you can still argue about close spawns or game being different at low level but stats don't lie) HAHAHA. blizzard fanbois plz. A poster with only 2 posts coming here to give such a post? I think its obvious a troll. go back to your casual sc2. It's almost like you didn't understand what he wrote at all, maybe you should learn to read? casually ofc | ||
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