The head of Ongamenet (Hwang Hyung-Joon) says that although people are raising doubts about the next OSL (particularly with the difficulty finding sponsors, the OGN LOL tournament etc.), he will ensure that it will happen eventually, since it's such an integral part of OGN and esports history.
He mentions that there are indeed financial difficulties but OGN will continue the OSL even if that means reducing the prize pool. He predicts that the new OSL will begin around late May, when the LOL league starts to wrap up.
Well at least it's not cut just yet... Good to hear that they are still alive, and not considering cutting the tournament all together. Already lost MSL T_T
On March 02 2012 16:51 Corrupt wrote: Korean Broodwar and sponsor difficulties.... please God, let this be just one bad dream, please. :|
Tell me about it man. Sounds to me like Korean companies hate ESPORTS and want it to die. One of the excuses I get as to why Starcraft 2 isn't as big as Brood War is
The Korean sponsorship market is relatively small and contracts with other games/sports are still active and a majority of them have been renewed for 2012. The market has already been taken.
If the market has been taken that has got to be an extremely SMALL market. If indeed there will only be ONE OSL this year I can see more Brood War teams disbanding.
i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
With the global economy the way it is, most companies are apprehensive about committing to additional costs that aren't directly related to their business.
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
Does anyone have any idea when would SKPL S2 start? I'm going to Korea on the 3rd/4th week of may, and I'm not sure if I'd love seeing the earlier stages of the OSL(unless I get to see Bisu+ Show Spoiler +
get eliminated :p
)
This is definitely better than nothing, but it would be way better if this ain't the last one.
razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
Isnt Razer sponsoring BW teams aswell ? -_- I can swear i saw something about Razer and KT
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
Isnt Razer sponsoring BW teams aswell ? -_- I can swear i saw something about Razer and KT
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
It is pretty funny- every five minutes razer sponsors another SC2 team/tournament/player/SC2 themed hot air balloon. It must be selling them a fuckload of keyboards with SC2 unit names.
On topic- I just want OSL. It's a bad time to be trying to do anything which requires somebody to give up money for anything less than guaranteed return, but hopefully with smart management, BW will avoid the cut! People are still watching it, so it's still going.
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
It's not doing well anywhere. Absolutely no one is making any money in any "e-sport", including LoL and both Starcrafts. The LoL scene is just an ad for the game. There are about 50 more SC2 tournaments than its scene can support, so there's a big crash coming for that (With GSL and MLG being the winners, IMO).
None of Brood War's problems are unique to BW, excepting maybe a culture of gloom that's probably not all that helpful, and a history of BIG EXPENSIVE AWESOME STARLEAGUES that are hard to justify now.
Compare an OSL finals
To, say, an Evolution finals
Or an LoL semifinals (I can't find an actual finals on Youtube)
Or SC2 (MLG) finals. I was there live for this, and there were people sitting in the aisles due to lack of seating, and MLG couldn't actually show the crowd due to lack of lighting (we showed up as a dark blob).
MLG Winter Arena, the last major SC2 tournament and the first PPV one, didn't even have an audience.
Those OSL production values cost a LOT of money. The budgets BW needs are way higher. But, that means that BW can survive by simply downscaling the production values. How much does BW really need the Flashcot, for instance?
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
Razer couldn't possibly afford to sponsor an OSL. All the SC2 sponsors are relatively small time (oGs is sponsored by Mom's Touch Chicken and Nada's website, for instance. None of them could sponsor a single player, let alone an OSL, which is this big huge multimillion dollar event (you have to rent out studios, hire camera guys, etc etc etc). LoL is sponsored by Riot, which has zero interest in helping out BW.
On the flip side, the global economy is picking up at long last, and BW could find itself in okay shape
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
It is pretty funny- every five minutes razer sponsors another SC2 team/tournament/player/SC2 themed hot air balloon. It must be selling them a fuckload of keyboards with SC2 unit names.
On topic- I just want OSL. It's a bad time to be trying to do anything which requires somebody to give up money for anything less than guaranteed return, but hopefully with smart management, BW will avoid the cut! People are still watching it, so it's still going.
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
Mind you, BW is still the biggest RTS in Korea at the moment, and will be for next few months if not years at this rate.
On March 02 2012 16:57 onedayclose wrote: Tell me about it man. Sounds to me like Korean companies hate ESPORTS and want it to die.
No shit. They don't want to sponsor a league that has been already tainted with match fixing scandal (though now it has spread to every single major sport in Korea, and if I remember correctly K-League isn't doing well either since the match fixing scandal). KeSPA did the right thing by removing everyone who was involved in it (at least according to police investigation) and become 'clean'. But the scene's already been tainted from corporate's views.
In the beginning: Video Game tournament? What is this, kids just wasting time on games all day long! Then: Oh wow, this is pretty exciting. After match fixing scandal: Psh, I expected too much from these kids... yup, I guess kids become spoiled when they play video games for a long time.
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
It's not doing well anywhere. Absolutely no one is making any money in any "e-sport", including LoL and both Starcrafts. The LoL scene is just an ad for the game. There are about 50 more SC2 tournaments than its scene can support, so there's a big crash coming for that (With GSL and MLG being the winners, IMO).
None of Brood War's problems are unique to BW, excepting maybe a culture of gloom that's probably not all that helpful, and a history of BIG EXPENSIVE AWESOME STARLEAGUES that are hard to justify now.
Except China i guess. When this is your team house, you imagine e-sports has to be doing well there.
Also when e-sports ( dota/wc3) teams got bought for 6 million usd, players command a transfer fee and the demands for Esports in your country is so high that you will host 2 WCG in a row. I heard LoL is gaining massive popularity in China as well. I'd say the only way BW will be saved is if China helps save it ( such a pity regarding the typhoon i guess as it would have helped tremendously, instead it left a bitter taste)
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
Mind you, BW is still the biggest RTS in Korea at the moment, and will be for next few months if not years at this rate.
On March 02 2012 16:57 onedayclose wrote: Tell me about it man. Sounds to me like Korean companies hate ESPORTS and want it to die.
No shit. They don't want to sponsor a league that has been already tainted with match fixing scandal (though now it has spread to every single major sport in Korea, and if I remember correctly K-League isn't doing well either since the match fixing scandal). KeSPA did the right thing by removing everyone who was involved in it (at least according to police investigation) and become 'clean'. But the scene's already been tainted from corporate's views.
In the beginning: Video Game tournament? What is this, kids just wasting time on games all day long! Then: Oh wow, this is pretty exciting. After match fixing scandal: Psh, I expected too much from these kids... yup, I guess kids become spoiled when they play video games for a long time.
How did you come up with this conclusion? If sponsors would feel like that from the beginning they wouldnt invest millions into the industry. Did MBC was killed by Match Fixing also? For me its just to convenient to blame everything on this. To farfetched conclusions.
On March 02 2012 19:14 Tomken wrote: So weird that OSL get sponsoring troubles after last year final... T_t..
The irony, viewer number says its succesfull next message: "We cant find sponsors". Maybe succesfull viewership was never enough for BW, maybe it required groundbreaking viewership like it had in its peak. Imho its the fact that esports pool is getting "polluted" with overlapping titles couses this, some sponsors want to go international, international mean either SC2 (which fails in Korea) or LoL, LoL wins, some sponsors are Korea only and those are known for long time supporters of BW. But apparently something is not working, maybe it was never working like a charm but a small decrease was enough to tip the scale.
On March 02 2012 19:21 Ikonn wrote: well so much for the "everyone is switching in April!" rumors. I'm really looking forward to the OSL
No one said everyone will switch April, only FxoBoss was rumoring about some "notable" figures coming up in April, imho few A-teamers will switch for now, but the big heads will continue to play BW.
On March 02 2012 19:21 Ikonn wrote: well so much for the "everyone is switching in April!" rumors. I'm really looking forward to the OSL
No one said everyone will switch April, only FxoBoss was rumoring about some "notable" figures coming up in April, imho few A-teamers will switch for now, but the big heads will continue to play BW.
Imo I think he just gambled with that statement, because PL ends in April and it's no secure that's gonna be a season 2 or not. From what I know, the players is contracted until August...
On March 02 2012 19:14 Tomken wrote: So weird that OSL get sponsoring troubles after last year final... T_t..
There are a couple of factors to this. I don't personally think the popularity of BW has much to do with this whole sponsorship ordeal. I think it's mainly due to A: The floundering economy and B: The anti-game movement in Korea.
In a junk economy, companies have to watch their purse strings and eliminate money sinks (like a sponsorship). Korea has also become much more aware of the adverse effects of excess gaming on its kids. They view gaming addiction as a big national problem now. The country passed legislation a couple years ago to limit gaming hours at night. Companies don't want to be known as supporters of a medium that negatively impacts a child, so they probably view Brood War sponsorship as detrimental. Kind of a perfect storm here.
I mean it's great and all that there's going to be at least another OSL but... it's kinda sad we're celebrating over news that would have been devastating like a year ago. Damn is BW dying fast =(
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
Mind you, BW is still the biggest RTS in Korea at the moment, and will be for next few months if not years at this rate.
On March 02 2012 16:57 onedayclose wrote: Tell me about it man. Sounds to me like Korean companies hate ESPORTS and want it to die.
No shit. They don't want to sponsor a league that has been already tainted with match fixing scandal (though now it has spread to every single major sport in Korea, and if I remember correctly K-League isn't doing well either since the match fixing scandal). KeSPA did the right thing by removing everyone who was involved in it (at least according to police investigation) and become 'clean'. But the scene's already been tainted from corporate's views.
In the beginning: Video Game tournament? What is this, kids just wasting time on games all day long! Then: Oh wow, this is pretty exciting. After match fixing scandal: Psh, I expected too much from these kids... yup, I guess kids become spoiled when they play video games for a long time.
How did you come up with this conclusion? If sponsors would feel like that from the beginning they wouldnt invest millions into the industry. Did MBC was killed by Match Fixing also? For me its just to convenient to blame everything on this. To farfetched conclusions.
Because BW had a huge underground scene before it began, and those "major corporations" didn't come into the BW scene until years later (remember how GO was about to disband and then CJ came into pick up the team up around 2007? Remember how we didn't have huge corporate sponsors in first few OSLs?) when the scene developed further. They found it profitable, and the scene did not cause any bad image on society until the matchfixing incident. Keep in mind that in the beginning, they just took a popular game and managed to run the whole thing on an old ping pong table that they found in the tooniverse studio.
To those who don't know what actually happened during the final days of MBCGame, here you go. Maybe then you'll see why I'm blaming this incident.
"MBCGame isn't disappearing due to financial issues" "Then why is it disappearing?" "To be honest, we don't know the exact reason" "Simply, MBC had a "pride" in running a game channel." "There have been 'many' 'incidents' that have hurt/downsized this pride" "Then again, did KeSPA and MBCGame work out on this problem to have a win-win situation?" "Of course not" "We deeply apologize for this situation" "Thank you for loving our show" "And we will always love you back" (T/N sleepy, probably someone can come up with better translation)
I ensure you, it sounds like a convenient excuse, but I have my basis.
People here are too impatient. Keep in mind that there is an ongoing global recession. Korean companies have obviously been hit too, and while the south korean economy is getting better, I don't think there is anybody willing to hand out sponsorships in a snap like everyone here wishes. And as some have already mentioned, the match-fixing scandal greatly damaged korean BW and there is public outcry over gaming addictions as well.
The problems over finding sponsorship, questions about the viability of the scene, and the community struggling to keep teams together is really a broad phenomenon about esports in general. Brood war is old. The turnover rate and technological advancement is so fast in the gaming industry that the whole idea of a certain game self-sustaining itself as a long-term "esport" is big question mark. The fact that BW has not only survived for more than a decade but continues to generate excitement among many demographics really just shows how special and how impressive the community has built itself.
I'm sure SC2 fans are secretly gleeful at the prospect of the BW scene falling apart and A-teamers going into SC2 and I'm sure LoL fans are thinking that the currently huge excitement of LoL will mean that it will be the next BW but the fact is that if BW fails, all those games have a high chance of failing too. SC2 and LoL are nowhere near as exciting as BW is as a spectator sport. If a giant like BW falls, that's just proof that esports is not sustainable in the long-term. How can that be good news for any esports scene? We need to do everything possible to maintain professional BW.
On March 02 2012 20:07 white_horse wrote: People here are too impatient. Keep in mind that there is an ongoing global recession. Korean companies have obviously been hit too, and while the south korean economy is getting better, I don't think there is anybody willing to hand out sponsorships in a snap like everyone here wishes. And as some have already mentioned, the match-fixing scandal greatly damaged korean BW and there is public outcry over gaming addictions as well.
The problems over finding sponsorship, questions about the viability of the scene, and the community struggling to keep teams together is really a broad phenomenon about esports in general. Brood war is old. The turnover rate and technological advancement is so fast in the gaming industry that the whole idea of a certain game self-sustaining itself as a long-term "esport" is big question mark. The fact that BW has not only survived for more than a decade but continues to generate excitement among many demographics really just shows how special and how impressive the community has built itself.
I'm sure SC2 fans are secretly gleeful at the prospect of the BW scene falling apart and A-teamers going into SC2 and I'm sure LoL fans are thinking that the currently huge excitement of LoL will mean that it will be the next BW but the fact is that if BW fails, all those games have a high chance of failing too. SC2 and LoL are nowhere near as exciting as BW is as a spectator sport. If a giant like BW falls, that's just proof that esports is not sustainable in the long-term. How can that be good news for any esports scene? We need to do everything possible to maintain professional BW.
One OSL a year and a downsized proleague isn't going to keep the general public interested forever. It's really unfortunate it had to come to this, I simply hope that this (last?) OSL can truly deliver.
On March 02 2012 20:16 setzer wrote: One OSL a year and a downsized proleague isn't going to keep the general public interested forever. It's really unfortunate it had to come to this, I simply hope that this (last?) OSL can truly deliver.
It's really unfortunate when anything that has to do with bw sponsorship or proleague get's featured we get ton's of post having the same doom saying theme repeating again and again.
On March 02 2012 17:45 jacen wrote: So for the time being BW only has Proleague as exposure right? What else are they showing on OGN these days? Reruns? LoL? Can anyone enlighten me?
Reruns and LoL.
to get a good idea go watch bgvrt's stream on twitch.
On March 02 2012 20:16 setzer wrote: One OSL a year and a downsized proleague isn't going to keep the general public interested forever. It's really unfortunate it had to come to this, I simply hope that this (last?) OSL can truly deliver.
It's really unfortunate when anything that has to do with bw sponsorship or proleague get's featured we get ton's of post having the same doom saying theme repeating again and again.
Yes! Be happy guys, if you'd all spent the last year and a half/two years or w/e just enjoying the game instead of thinking it's demise was just around the corner, then you'd have had a much more enjoyable time and it would still be going anyway!
good luck to BW.. i only play SC2 but now im trying to watch more BW , Jaedong game where he blocked his ramp with his units and fought with half the supply was amazing and funny.. SC2 would not allow something so good as that
On March 02 2012 20:16 setzer wrote: One OSL a year and a downsized proleague isn't going to keep the general public interested forever. It's really unfortunate it had to come to this, I simply hope that this (last?) OSL can truly deliver.
It's really unfortunate when anything that has to do with bw sponsorship or proleague get's featured we get ton's of post having the same doom saying theme repeating again and again.
It's funny Sawamura you are always the one who attacks people for casting anything but fervent optimism towards BW. Don't think I'm a hater just because I can look at this rationally, it has been quite obvious for a while that BW has been declining. I have enjoyed BW for many years now and will enjoy it for as long as it is broadcasted. Maybe YOU should accept what is happening and you might enjoy it a little more yourself, because it won't last forever.
On March 02 2012 20:16 setzer wrote: One OSL a year and a downsized proleague isn't going to keep the general public interested forever. It's really unfortunate it had to come to this, I simply hope that this (last?) OSL can truly deliver.
It's really unfortunate when anything that has to do with bw sponsorship or proleague get's featured we get ton's of post having the same doom saying theme repeating again and again.
It's funny Sawamura you are always the one who attacks people for casting anything but fervent optimism towards BW. Don't think I'm a hater just because I can look at this rationally, it has been quite obvious for a while that BW has been declining. I have enjoyed BW for many years now and will enjoy it for as long as it is broadcasted. Maybe YOU should accept what is happening and you might enjoy it a little more yourself, because it won't last forever.
Your logic which is self prophecies doom which leads to realization that the game is going to go soon will make me enjoy the game more ?? Nope, bw to me is where my happy place is and if it's gone than it's gone and if it's not than I will continue to support it . I don't need people telling me to enjoy it while it's last .
I'm curious why OGN must adhere to the "one sponsor" formula. If the ratings are good enough, can't they just advertisement space like American sports broadcasts? I wouldn't mind watching a segment like "Now we look at the two players' records, brought to you by... Samsung, introducing the new Samsung Galaxy III or whatever..."
It's one thing if they're not getting viewers. If so, then they should shut things down. But if there are people watching, then they have to be able to find money.
I'll take anything we can get Great news, and it will be epic! (more importantly, I'll have summer break during that period so I can pull out infinite over-nighter. Yay)
xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
Edit: I guess I have to clarify I was targetting supsun and GoSuChicken who tried to derail the thread with random LoL talk. Some people PMing me about it O.o
I miss those days where there were 2 properly scheduled starleagues and plenty of epic matches to look forward to. Now the MSL is gone, and the starting dates for the last 2 OSLs are like one year apart or something. Oh well better than nothing
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
and more epic : i was right sc1f]eonzerg Spain. February 17 2012 03:50. Posts 607 PM Profile Blog Quote Edit # in some days someone come with epic news. about osl , and all fine is my hope
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
You don't need flashy graphics to make a good game. -_-
Lots of people are rediscovering BW or discovering it for the first time due to SC2. They want to see what's up and if you read some of their responses you might be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, we know how game reviewers tend to focus on all the fluff including graphics, so if you want to listen to them by all means go right ahead.
Gameplay is what makes or breaks it for me. That's just me and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
On March 02 2012 17:15 Jakalo wrote: I saw ''OSL Starleague WILL be c…'' and almost shit my pants.
On March 02 2012 23:17 fabiano wrote: holy fucking crap when i read that c... in the goddamn left menu i though it would mean cancelled
My heart skipped a beat when I saw the topic with a capitalized WILL...
I'm sad that OSL is becoming an annual tournament or the last tournament before the doom day in December. I cannot complaint because OGN is still fighting hard for us BW fans!
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
That might be true and if you really want to post something "acurate" from your point of view than do it in a more respectable way and not post one liners that would piss anyone that reads this forum and still watch BW.
BW "might" be dying and we dont wanna be reminded by assholes everytime when there is a seemingly good news on the BW forums which is quite rare nowadays.
ohh i see milkis is posting here, i wont read his posts, ill just take the risk and assume that his post is something like this, "bw is gonna die soon, get over it", because you know, thats what he posted in the last thread, and the one before that, and the one before before that, and so on.
on topic: im glad there are some news about OSL, at least is better than no news , also 11:30 hours to next PL match yayyyyyyyyyyy
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
That might be true and if you really want to post something "acurate" from your point of view than do it in a more respectable way and not post one liners that would piss anyone that reads this forum and still watch BW.
BW "might" be dying and we dont wanna be reminded by assholes everytime when there is a seemingly good news on the BW forums which is quite rare nowadays.
I don't know about you, but personally all I want is the truth. Even if it's fucking ugly, the truth would be better than illusion.
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
do it. its better than your posts with doomsdays predicitions that you never specify because either you dont have sources or you are afraid of naming them. its the same thing in every thread you post in. just stop or make your own thread
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
That might be true and if you really want to post something "acurate" from your point of view than do it in a more respectable way and not post one liners that would piss anyone that reads this forum and still watch BW.
BW "might" be dying and we dont wanna be reminded by assholes everytime when there is a seemingly good news on the BW forums which is quite rare nowadays.
I don't know about you, but personally all I want is the truth. Even if it's fucking ugly, the truth would be better than illusion.
I never said i dont want the truth. I just said to him to stop being an asshole and post the truth in a more respectable way.
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
I would rather hear the truth, even if it's " not what I want to hear ". Getting my hopes up for another season of BW PL and a BW OSL when I read this post, but if you know something we don't then just post it...
Don't forget about Milkis posting "They're playing sc2" in every LR thread where a game is somewhat sloppy, I should start taking bets on how long it takes before he pops in.
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
give me the truth,put together a through post on what you have to say.
This makes me really sad...I was hoping that the BW scene would stay relevant even as SC2 continues to develop. Do you guys think there will still be online communities playing BW even if proleague goes extinct after this season? I've been watching the professional scene for only a couple years now, and was contemplating practicing BW again....but I'm kind of questioning doing it now, especially if proleague is almost dead . I'd hate to actually make some progress in the game(I'm only D right now) and then all of a sudden not have an active community to play with...should I just say fuck it and start playing SC2(I know, it hurts to say)? I need my RTS, I just dont want to invest time in something if its going to die soon.
Any wise words from anyone who might have input on the future of the BW community?
i want some admin warning milkis. this is really not funny. we are leaving in a dream ? is ok. let us bw community live in the dream. u not need by our nightmare
On March 03 2012 00:31 mdb wrote: Milkis, stop this shit please. We`ve had enough of you.
seriously, get the fuck out.
instead of keep saying stupid shit like "BW is dying" or "it's not going to be a BW OSL" why don't you actually post some hard evidence? you keep doing this and without proof you're just being annoying/a downer.
Milkis doesn't actually know anything. The last time he explained he said he was out of the scene for a while but if you just look at the signs, you can tell that the switch is coming (Stuff like 2 part proleague, cheesy games, players slumping, sloppy play, and no OSL). He also said you should believe his speculation because he is used important and such.
For a second, I was going to respond to some responses in this thread.
Then I realized, "hey I'll just wait until May to see what happens."
Believe it or not, some people in this thread have more information about the scene than other people out there at the moment, but we won't know if its real or not until the time comes.
On March 03 2012 01:34 Pelopidas wrote: Milkis doesn't actually know anything. The last time he explained he said he was out of the scene for a while but if you just look at the signs, you can tell that the switch is coming (Stuff like 2 part proleague, cheesy games, players slumping, sloppy play, and no OSL). He also said you should believe his speculation because he is used important and such.
The signs are already noticeable to those who know what the signs are (obvious and most notable ones: computer/monitor switch). Not implying that what Milkis says will happen (then again, it may happen since Milkis did have closer contact with some SC2 teams in Korea during his MLG days as translator).
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
Hey can u stop this ? the other topic was closed cuz u..... everyone know is about bw
Haha pretty much this.. Milkis is trying really hard to lose whatever respect the BW community still have left for him.
If it's something you can't talk about, don't. Otherwise elaborate.. Leaving things hanging like you have been doing makes you look painfully like one of those attention whore.
What do you guys want to know? If you really want, I can put together a thorough post on everything that I can reveal/put together. But it's not going to be what you guys "want" to hear.
The only reason why I keep dropping things like that *is* because you shouldn't be so smug about these kind of things. If you don't like SC2, that's fine. But being smug about it isn't going to get you anywhere and only leave you devastated when the time comes. It's just really self destructive because it is going to happen soon =(
I think most people are okay (as okay as they can be anyway) with it not being what they want to hear. Knowing ahead of time is much better than all of a sudden having some huge bomb dropped and being devastated.
So yea, if you have the time to do so I do think that most people would appreciated the full story, as opposed to just little random hints/one-liners dropped in.
Here I was thinking they just wanted to consolidate individual league fans with team league fans for a stronger main audience. So this is interesting news no matter what. I wouldn't totally be against 1 OSL a year and team league the rest of the year, but individual leagues are definitely my favourite part of BW so they will need to do some things to make the team leagues better, like bringing back 2v2 (since it's not gonna hurt people's individual league careers as much anymore).
edit: LOL why would it be an SC2 OSL?? That is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile. They will call it something else if it's an SC2 tournament. OSC2L at the worst, but definitely it would be a suicidal move to taunt their fans like this, when the article is clearly aimed at BW fans who have been missing individual leagues, not SC2 fans who have at least a couple hundred individual leagues to watch a day. How ridiculous.
Meh, I guess I can wait for few months too. I guess all of us have right to interpret this information the way we want- I'll choose to take the optimistic path. Can't wait for the upcoming epicness!
The signs are already noticeable to those who know what the signs are (obvious and most notable ones: computer/monitor switch).
i saw boxer documentary using window 98. imo this not mean nothing. u think ogn use the same devices from 2001 ? they are tv channel. they need the best devices. same in proteams
On March 03 2012 00:31 mdb wrote: Milkis, stop this shit please. We`ve had enough of you.
seriously, get the fuck out.
instead of keep saying stupid shit like "BW is dying" or "it's not going to be a BW OSL" why don't you actually post some hard evidence? you keep doing this and without proof you're just being annoying/a downer.
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
I'll write up what I know later on.
Oh and to respond to this
On March 03 2012 01:34 Pelopidas wrote: Milkis doesn't actually know anything. The last time he explained he said he was out of the scene for a while but if you just look at the signs, you can tell that the switch is coming (Stuff like 2 part proleague, cheesy games, players slumping, sloppy play, and no OSL). He also said you should believe his speculation because he is used important and such.
You can claim that. When I made that post, that was the case. I did quite a bit of research after that.
But you can claim that "I don't know anything", sure. You can always claim that. You also have to realize that all I can show you *are* the signs because again, this is a rather critical moment for the entire scene right now because it literally depends on Gom/KeSPA dynamic.
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Sorry if it's "depressing" and if I've been "irritating" or "smug" or whatever. eSports isn't a pretty business and it can turn a lot of people bitter
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
All this post does is annoy people... It doesn't inform, it just spreads negativity. I'd rather you posted something much more well thought out, whether us BW fans think that what you have to say is good or bad.
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
You don't need flashy graphics to make a good game. -_-
Lots of people are rediscovering BW or discovering it for the first time due to SC2. They want to see what's up and if you read some of their responses you might be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, we know how game reviewers tend to focus on all the fluff including graphics, so if you want to listen to them by all means go right ahead.
Gameplay is what makes or breaks it for me. That's just me and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
But thats a problem itself, not many ppl plays SC2 and even less tries out BW, it just, BW cant grow at all outside of Korea, SC2 did push it up a bit but not worth giving money to it, and if its starts to wither down in Korea aswell, then at one point, LoL or other fancy new free to play game gonna take over.
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
the funny thing is that nearly all of the "according to insider" news pieces has been accurate in the KR scene (that is, I was able to verify them) but nearly all of the official PR pieces have been bullshit or people were actually not allowed to talk about it.
I have to ask the same question as Milkis. Is there any indication that it will be a bw OSL ? If yes this will come as so unexpected to me I might cry of hapiness.
This being said, I also would prefer if he dropped the one liner snide remark. Either give us more information that we don't know, or don't say anything if you think it's the better thing to do. With this attitude, you're only making things worse, not opening anyone eyes and aggravating the smugness you're denoucing. The thing is, like it or not, when you say something, it is not perceived the same as when any other random user says something, if only because you have a shiny new icon. I wouldn't like to be in your place, but yeah, this is it.
As for not revealing your sources, I'm ok with it, but you'll have to at least say something like "esport journalist insider" or "a memeber of a progammimg team" or something if you want to have any credibility. Or you might as well quote me as your source... All that even if personnally I tend tyo belive you.
I'll end up with saying how disgusting pr in esport is, it's not even funny.
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
the funny thing is that nearly all of the "according to insider" news pieces has been accurate in the KR scene (that is, I was able to verify them) but nearly all of the official PR pieces have been bullshit or people were actually not allowed to talk about it.
The more you know...
A.K.A. 카더라통신? I remember seeing a post about BW/SC2 integration. At first I laughed at it, but now I look at it, it's getting slightly more realistic.
Then again, there have been crazy speculations in the past that turned out to be completely true, so you never know =P
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
the funny thing is that nearly all of the "according to insider" news pieces has been accurate in the KR scene (that is, I was able to verify them) but nearly all of the official PR pieces have been bullshit or people were actually not allowed to talk about it.
The more you know...
A.K.A. 카더라통신? I remember seeing a post about BW/SC2 integration. At first I laughed at it, but now I look at it, it's getting slightly more realistic.
Then again, there have been crazy speculations in the past that turned out to be completely true, so you never know =P
dunno about that. i haven't read netizen shit in a while if that's what you're referring to so i can't comment. but a lot of netizen stuff are pretty fantastical, like the latest one on Fomos has a lot of bullshit elements in it.
if you're wondering which press i was referring to i was mostly referring to OSEN
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
Well, we can all see that. The article isn't all cloaked in mystery, it admits having trouble finding sponsors for its usual prize pool. From this a skeptical fan can say 'maybe it won't be May' and 'maybe it won't happen at all' but saying it will be SC2 is just weird and dumb. Yeah, we already know that GOM and KeSPA have been sort of talking a little, but this article was definitely about the future of BW OSL. Whether SC2 gets broadcast on OGN's channel or not is a totally different matter, not more threatening than LOL being broadcast on OGN, or SF, or Kart Rider (ok maybe a little more threatening than Kart Rider ).
If there's an SC2 tournament and you go 'I told you so!' it's gonna sound dumb, cause this is obviously not about SC2. Does SC2 even have a chance at being successful on television? Surely GSL could have gone this route already if they'd tried? God, just thinking about the nightmare of trying to get vods if GOM had a stake in OGN... They probably wouldn't let them upload it to youtube at all. "No you'll ruin our PPV international sales!" Hahaha... Well, time will tell but if Milkis' next post isn't insightful (why is he not willing to share sources -.-) I think he deserves a BW forum ban. It's very easy for a man to pretend he knows something which he doesn't.
Yeah, we already know that GOM and KeSPA have been sort of talking a little, but this article was definitely about the future of BW OSL.
No, it isn't. It's about the brandname "Starleague".
If there's an SC2 tournament and you go 'I told you so!' it's gonna sound dumb, cause this is obviously not about SC2. Does SC2 even have a chance at being successful on television? Surely GSL could have gone this route already if they'd tried?
They did try, it's on Anibox. It doesn't get great ratings though.
God, just thinking about the nightmare of trying to get vods if GOM had a stake in OGN...
Thankfully this isn't very likely. This is actually kind of amusing actually cause technically CJ has stakes in Gretech and OGN.
It's very easy for a man to pretend he knows something which he doesn't.
You have to realize that 1) there is no such thing as "hard evidence" in esports in saying what will happen in the future until it actually happens. 2) there are still quite a bit of uncertainty regarding how it's going to happen because it depends on how Gom/KeSPA negotiations go. And 3) no matter what I say, you guys will claim that "I have no source" because I'm sure not going to name my sources and there's "not much" on Fomos/DES/whatever.
...
I never said "you should believe me" in any sort of way. All I've said is to be a bit more critical when you read things because things don't get posted to Fomos and DES for no reason. There's a lot of PR that covers up what actually happens. Just take any "official" statements or quotes that get posted on those sites with a grain of salt because that's their job to keep the populace at bay.
Agreed.
Often, sites and other places will release good PR about proleague and whatnot to raise attention (remember the "OSL will begin soon, two possible sponsors interested" news?). Sometimes they might be forged, other times they'll just drop hints about how good eSports is doing, but not how bad the scene is doing, or what is actually happening behind the scenes.
the funny thing is that nearly all of the "according to insider" news pieces has been accurate in the KR scene (that is, I was able to verify them) but nearly all of the official PR pieces have been bullshit or people were actually not allowed to talk about it.
The more you know...
A.K.A. 카더라통신? I remember seeing a post about BW/SC2 integration. At first I laughed at it, but now I look at it, it's getting slightly more realistic.
Then again, there have been crazy speculations in the past that turned out to be completely true, so you never know =P
dunno about that. i haven't read netizen shit in a while if that's what you're referring to so i can't comment. but a lot of netizen stuff are pretty fantastical, like the latest one on Fomos has a lot of bullshit elements in it.
if you're wondering which press i was referring to i was mostly referring to OSEN
Ahh I thought you were going deeper into the netizen shits that sometimes become true, but yeah some of them are too bullshit so people can easily call out on it, others are sometimes believable but should be taken with a grain of salt. Though there have been few afaik that actually became true, so I end up reading everything and try to have an open mind about it.
But yes, OSEN is pretty damn accurate for some reason.
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
You don't need flashy graphics to make a good game. -_-
Lots of people are rediscovering BW or discovering it for the first time due to SC2. They want to see what's up and if you read some of their responses you might be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, we know how game reviewers tend to focus on all the fluff including graphics, so if you want to listen to them by all means go right ahead.
Gameplay is what makes or breaks it for me. That's just me and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
But thats a problem itself, not many ppl plays SC2 and even less tries out BW, it just, BW cant grow at all outside of Korea, SC2 did push it up a bit but not worth giving money to it, and if its starts to wither down in Korea aswell, then at one point, LoL or other fancy new free to play game gonna take over.
It was never in the position to do so to begin with. We're spoken at length about a game's shelf-life before. No reason to travel down that road again.
On March 03 2012 02:25 phosphorylation wrote: From the article, it can't be more clear that it WILL be a BW starleague.
Depends on how you interpret it, really. But nothing says it "will" be BW starleague. But I do agree that that is the most natural interpretation.
It's not "natural". It's obvious and clear as day.
Well, the article doesn't directly state it. So what Milkis is saying could be true if the reporter is deliberately trying to lead the reader astray. Either way we'll just see what happens b/c there is no good way to resolve this dispute.
On March 03 2012 02:25 phosphorylation wrote: From the article, it can't be more clear that it WILL be a BW starleague.
Depends on how you interpret it, really. But nothing says it "will" be BW starleague. But I do agree that that is the most natural interpretation.
It's not "natural". It's obvious and clear as day.
I don't read korean, I don't have sources, I want bw to go on. Can you please translate a bit or two that give you that impression ? I wouldn't be suprised if there was some ambiguity left, at least your post on the front page does not say anything particular about bw.
Sorry if it's "depressing" and if I've been "irritating" or "smug" or whatever. eSports isn't a pretty business and it can turn a lot of people bitter
Dear Milkis:
You're perfectly capable of posting logical posts to back up your views. Yet you prefer to post / end what are perfectly agreeable points with comments that are meant to (and I assume you understand do) incite and anger the community. No one is delusional in assuming that any business (be it esports, professional sports, private enterprise) will last forever. If you could refrain from ruining your own credibility when you're perfectly capable of just making informed posts with out purposefully pissing off portions of the community that would be much appreciated.
On March 03 2012 02:39 Milkis wrote:
The latter is true, but I have no emotional investment in esports at all anymore, lol.
But you can think it's speculation all you want :O
If it's not speculation, what are your sources that they have stopped trying to make an individual league happen for BW? To me that's all this article informs me of. "We're still trying." It's not a guarantee it will happen, no, but SC2 will be another article.
On March 03 2012 02:42 Chef wrote: If it's not speculation, what are your sources that they have stopped trying to make an individual league happen for BW? To me that's all this article informs me of. "We're still trying." It's not a guarantee it will happen, no, but SC2 will be another article.
cause there's a very high probability the scene will swap over in april?
Sorry if it's "depressing" and if I've been "irritating" or "smug" or whatever. eSports isn't a pretty business and it can turn a lot of people bitter
Dear Milkis:
You're perfectly capable of posting logical posts to back up your views. Yet you prefer to post / end what are perfectly agreeable points with comments that are meant to (and I assume you understand do) incite and anger the community. No one is delusional in assuming that any business (be it esports, professional sports, private enterprise) will last forever. If you could refrain from ruining your own credibility when you're perfectly capable of just making informed posts with out purposefully pissing off portions of the community that would be much appreciated.
The latter is true, but I have no emotional investment in esports at all anymore, lol.
But you can think it's speculation all you want :O
Then why are you here?
Fair point. I have trouble hiding bittenress nowadays... Again, I'll post something tonight that's a bit more thorough and uses as many publicly available sources to back it up
Sorry if it's "depressing" and if I've been "irritating" or "smug" or whatever. eSports isn't a pretty business and it can turn a lot of people bitter
Dear Milkis:
You're perfectly capable of posting logical posts to back up your views. Yet you prefer to post / end what are perfectly agreeable points with comments that are meant to (and I assume you understand do) incite and anger the community. No one is delusional in assuming that any business (be it esports, professional sports, private enterprise) will last forever. If you could refrain from ruining your own credibility when you're perfectly capable of just making informed posts with out purposefully pissing off portions of the community that would be much appreciated.
On March 03 2012 02:39 Milkis wrote:
The latter is true, but I have no emotional investment in esports at all anymore, lol.
But you can think it's speculation all you want :O
Then why are you here?
Fair point. I have trouble hiding bittenress nowadays... Again, I'll post something tonight that's a bit more thorough and uses as many publicly available sources to back it up
There's a distinction between being bitter at the esports scene / economical situation s.korea is in and being bitter at the community though, and I don't think it helps anyone if you choose to lash out at the community when clearly you did enjoy being a part of it. <3
On March 02 2012 17:51 Golgotha wrote: razer is sponsoring every team in sc2, they should help bw imo. deck everything out razer and create brand loyalty. are bw fans not brand loyal or something? if i was a sponsor i would be all over bw so I could tap the legions of fans who love the players and the scene.
BW won´t grow outside of korea, no way that happens with these graphics. And neither does it seem to grow inside korea. It just is not that smart to sponsor BW.
You don't need flashy graphics to make a good game. -_-
Lots of people are rediscovering BW or discovering it for the first time due to SC2. They want to see what's up and if you read some of their responses you might be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, we know how game reviewers tend to focus on all the fluff including graphics, so if you want to listen to them by all means go right ahead.
Gameplay is what makes or breaks it for me. That's just me and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
Yeah, I was watching MLG for sc2, then it was over on Sunday. So I then tuned to watch BW again since the last OSL (Fantasy vs JangBi) and omg there was such a good, nostalgic feeling. I watch BW when I can... to me, it's never dead.
April lol... with no genuine announcement or warning to their fanbase at all. "Oh, Brood War is over, thanks bye." Yeah, excuse me if I have trouble taking your word on that Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by switch, I think OGN would be shooting itself in the foot doing something like that. I give OGN a little more credit than this.
On March 03 2012 02:58 Chef wrote: April lol... with no genuine announcement or warning to their fanbase at all. "Oh, Brood War is over, thanks bye." Yeah, excuse me if I have trouble taking your word on that Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by switch, I think OGN would be shooting itself in the foot doing something like that. I give OGN a little more credit than this.
They dropped PLENTY of warnings.
They literally asked the KR fanbase what they thought of SC2 in PL openly. Most people were open to the idea.
The thing about your comments is "oh no one translated it for us, it must not exist"
On March 02 2012 23:10 Hesmyrr wrote: xD the random SC2 posters that come in to vent their rage. Too bad your wanna-be-Brutus apparently got stabbed by another Brutus. BW lives on.
no guarantee that it's a BW OSL, is it?
I think it's interesting times right now after all like you said there is no guarantee that there will be a bw osl . So my mind wonders and the possibilities comes up maybe SF2 osl ? Sc2 osl ? LoL osl ? KoF osl ? . I don't know but if it goes either way than it's good game for me .
It's called "STARleague." And trying to argue for the possibility of this being a SC2 starleague is just silly; any one with modicum of Korean and esports knowledge would be able to see that they are clearly referring to the one and only BW starleague, not something new.
On March 03 2012 03:07 phosphorylation wrote: It's called "STARleague." And trying to argue for the possibility of this being a SC2 starleague is just silly; any one with modicum of Korean and esports knowledge would be able to see that they are clearly referring to the one and only BW starleague, not something new.
Okay so your justification is based on
1) its name, which they may not be able to change yet because the switch isn't official yet. 2) "anyone who knows what they're talking about knows that this is false"
On March 03 2012 02:58 Chef wrote: April lol... with no genuine announcement or warning to their fanbase at all. "Oh, Brood War is over, thanks bye." Yeah, excuse me if I have trouble taking your word on that Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by switch, I think OGN would be shooting itself in the foot doing something like that. I give OGN a little more credit than this.
They dropped PLENTY of warnings.
They literally asked the KR fanbase what they thought of SC2 in PL openly. Most people were open to the idea.
The thing about your comments is "oh no one translated it for us, it must not exist"
=/
How is that a warning that BW is over, and not a poll for interest in adding SC2 to their channel? It doesn't have to be all or nothing you know, OGN has plenty of games broadcasted on it.
On March 03 2012 03:07 phosphorylation wrote: It's called "STARleague." And trying to argue for the possibility of this being a SC2 starleague is just silly; any one with modicum of Korean and esports knowledge would be able to see that they are clearly referring to the one and only BW starleague, not something new.
Okay so your justification is based on
1) its name, which they may not be able to change yet because the switch isn't official yet. 2) "anyone who knows what they're talking about knows that this is false"
ok.
I look at this picture from the original article and than I think about sc2 and starleague and I can't stop laughing at how many years of bw history gone to waste if it ended this way . Daum osl , Jangbi osl and I guess those are just for the memories for me old nostalgia supporter.
On March 03 2012 02:58 Chef wrote: April lol... with no genuine announcement or warning to their fanbase at all. "Oh, Brood War is over, thanks bye." Yeah, excuse me if I have trouble taking your word on that Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by switch, I think OGN would be shooting itself in the foot doing something like that. I give OGN a little more credit than this.
They dropped PLENTY of warnings.
They literally asked the KR fanbase what they thought of SC2 in PL openly. Most people were open to the idea.
The thing about your comments is "oh no one translated it for us, it must not exist"
=/
How is that a warning that BW is over, and not a poll for interest in adding SC2 to their channel? It doesn't have to be all or nothing you know, OGN has plenty of games broadcasted on it.
Well, I'm talking mostly of KeSPA more than OGN. There's far more than that.
It's mostly logistics. BW leagues have a hard enough time getting sponsors already -- can you really run dual leagues with SC2 and BW? You can't. Most of the leagues are sponsored heavily by the companies, like Riot pushing LoL in OGN.
On March 03 2012 03:18 Chef wrote: They run SF proleague at the same time as BW proleague...
And they run a Kart Rider league too, what's your point.
There are other leagues yes, but what is going to be your flagship?
So what games are better to boost your image Sc2 ? I believe if ogn actually cancels bw osl and than goes all out to promote LoL osl would have been a better choice from a business perspective.
I'm gonna remain highly skeptical of this one. I mean, the last OSL news claimed they had not one but two sponsors lined up and were finalizing things. Now there's none and financial difficulties yet they're still able to claim it will happen at a certain date? I dunno, at this point it just seems like news outlets are grasping for confirmations based on a quote or two here and there.
On March 03 2012 03:18 Chef wrote: They run SF proleague at the same time as BW proleague...
And they run a Kart Rider league too, what's your point.
There are other leagues yes, but what is going to be your flagship?
You just said it was logistically impossible to have BW and SC2 at the same time because running a league is expensive. I think Kart Rider is gonna go before BW does ;p
On March 03 2012 03:23 xBillehx wrote: I'm gonna remain highly skeptical of this one. I mean, the last OSL news claimed they had not one but two sponsors lined up and were finalizing things. Now there's none and financial difficulties yet they're still able to claim it will happen at a certain date? I dunno, at this point it just seems like news outlets are grasping for confirmations based on a quote or two here and there.
On March 03 2012 03:18 Chef wrote: They run SF proleague at the same time as BW proleague...
And they run a Kart Rider league too, what's your point.
There are other leagues yes, but what is going to be your flagship?
So what games are better to boost your image Sc2 ? I believe if ogn actually cancels bw osl and than goes all out to promote LoL osl would have been a better choice from a business perspective.
They are running a huge LoL league. Right now. As we speak. They had a game that went on past midnight.
On March 03 2012 03:18 Chef wrote: They run SF proleague at the same time as BW proleague...
And they run a Kart Rider league too, what's your point.
There are other leagues yes, but what is going to be your flagship?
You just said it was logistically impossible to have BW and SC2 at the same time because running a league is expensive. I think Kart Rider is gonna go before BW does ;p
No it's a sponsor issue. There's "only" proleague for SF. Oh, guess who is sponsoring it? An SKT company. Why? Because they can't... get sponsors.
That's the biggest thing right now. The scene literally recycled through every sponsor possible by now. Korean Air OSL 1 and 2? Okay. 2 was supposed to be the last but since they couldn't get sponsors, JinAir jumped in anyway and the Korean Air's CEO's daughter saved OSL again.
(Kart Rider will always be around as long as Nexon sponsors leagues though).
On March 03 2012 03:23 xBillehx wrote: I'm gonna remain highly skeptical of this one. I mean, the last OSL news claimed they had not one but two sponsors lined up and were finalizing things. Now there's none and financial difficulties yet they're still able to claim it will happen at a certain date? I dunno, at this point it just seems like news outlets are grasping for confirmations based on a quote or two here and there.
Obviously, the 'positive' news was for good PR.
You also have to realize that in the "full" article the tone of the article is
"Okay, we can't get sponsors. We don't have money. But we love OSL, it's awesome. Even if no one sponsors us, we're going to push through and use our own money to run a league."
It's just making the best out of a bad situation just like Team 8.
Fair point. I have trouble hiding bittenress nowadays...
It is clear to me that Milkis has some kind of misplaced grudge over someone or something in the BW community and is trying his hardest to stir up irrational and far-fetched negativity in the BW forums. To him, I suggest that he recalls what he has confessed publicly only a few months ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=281042
To the others, I propose that we just ignore his posts, as I will do from now on, until a moderator does what's right.
On March 03 2012 03:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So... WHo go ban milkis from bw section ?
You mean who will ban milkis from bw section ? No body .... There is nothing much to ban after all he isn't the same guy we use to know . Especially not the same milkis who help sent my question to stork Q&A twitter session .
Milkis your posts come over as extremely malicious. You post assumptions that you call facts without proving any of it. You're deliberately making everyone angry. You say it's the truth and people need to know but then you say you're bitter about the game and you don't even care anymore. Then why'd you post it?
If I didn't (somewhat) know you due to your public activities I'd think you're either a troll or someone who just wants to say "I told you so" when the end of BW arrives, not caring about how many toes you stepped on.
I really look forward to your explanation and to your sources later today.
Ah poor BW, out of all games it's so sad that such an easy casual appealing game starts to take it's place Atleast we'll get to see another OSL I almost feared the recent one would be the last OSL. Let's hope this won't be the last OSL and BW gets a few more years.
You also have to realize that in the "full" article the tone of the article is
"Okay, we can't get sponsors. We don't have money. But we love OSL, it's awesome. Even if no one sponsors us, we're going to push through and use our own money to run a league."
It's just making the best out of a bad situation just like Team 8.
Derp, should've mentioned what I was referring to.
I was referring to the two possible sponsorship article, not the one that the OP mentions. (not saying that you're wrong though, with this article)
cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
That is the question that you have to ask yourself, not me, because I did my part in the past, and will be continuing to do so (translating few articles here and there, trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.)
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
That is the question that you have to ask yourself, not me, because I did my part in the past, and will be continuing to do so (translating few articles here and there, trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.)
trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.) i bet this gonna help alot to the OSL
On March 03 2012 03:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So... WHo go ban milkis from bw section ?
bullshit man. Instead of dreaming on an one-liner random promise, Milkis let you know 10x more about reality. You choose I have seen like 50 nonsense "fuckyeah" comment and I really appreciate the other side of the story he gave us.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
That is the question that you have to ask yourself, not me, because I did my part in the past, and will be continuing to do so (translating few articles here and there, trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.)
trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.) i bet this gonna help alot to the OSL
Actually, my intentions was to raise awareness that there are still foreigners interested in OSL/MSL/Proleague and what not, since there's been this "BW only exists in Korea" point of view for a long time. I only tried to get the name out on the broadcast so that they know foreigners are still interested in BW, even though there's SC2 dominating the foreign scenes. Is it going to directly help OSL itself? No, of course not unless some foreign company sponsors OSL. But will it raise awareness of how big the scene is at the moment, and help OGN realize how many people are waiting for this to happen? I think "yes"
Then again, after reading all the comments in this thread, I'm starting to doubt myself if I did the right thing.
On March 03 2012 03:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So... WHo go ban milkis from bw section ?
bullshit man. Instead of dreaming on an one-liner random promise, Milkis let you know 10x more about reality. You choose I have seen like 50 nonsense "fuckyeah" comment and I really appreciate the other side of the story he gave us.
What other side of the story? he always post the same, "bw gonna die, get over it" in every single thread
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
That is the question that you have to ask yourself, not me, because I did my part in the past, and will be continuing to do so (translating few articles here and there, trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.)
trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.) i bet this gonna help alot to the OSL
Actually, my intentions was to raise awareness that there are still foreigners interested in OSL/MSL/Proleague and what not, since there's been this "BW only exists in Korea" point of view for a long time. I only tried to get the name out on the broadcast so that they know foreigners are still interested in BW, even though there's SC2 dominating the foreign scenes. Is it going to directly help OSL itself? No, of course not unless some foreign company sponsors OSL. But will it raise awareness of how big the scene is at the moment, and help OGN realize how many people are waiting for this to happen? I think "yes"
Wouldn't watching Proleague on their Youtube channel instead of restreams be a small way to get this message across even more these days? It is tough to get OGN to see the foreign fanbase, hopefully TLPD linking the new games to their Youtube's VOD's is also helping with increasing VOD views. It is not much but it is something.
Since we stopped uploading to Nevake their channel got a lot more views. It is actually the majority of their views coming from the smallvod thread I think. Watching their youtube stream instead of restreams probably also helps, although I think they stream in 360p (but it's not too bad).
On March 03 2012 03:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So... WHo go ban milkis from bw section ?
bullshit man. Instead of dreaming on an one-liner random promise, Milkis let you know 10x more about reality. You choose I have seen like 50 nonsense "fuckyeah" comment and I really appreciate the other side of the story he gave us.
What other side of the story? he always post the same, "bw gonna die, get over it" in every single thread
The CS 1.6 community has been hearing that "you game gonna die" bullshit for the past 8 years (it started when CS:Source came out), 'till this day the game is still the most played and competitive FPS game with tournaments everywhere. lol. I can't wait to watch the IEM WC match-ups.
Don't believe the hype guys, SuperCoinflip2 is awful for competitions. Keep supporting and following the game you love.
- Saying BW is the only true sport (BW elitism yaya) - Ruining his community image - Respectfully apologizing and "leaving" the community - Now BW negativity?
Dude, yeah you are fluent in Korean, yes you probably know more than all of us posting put together regarding the hidden signs or whatever, yes BW is dying. We know. We don't need your negative, condescending comments. If you want to post something with your sources or documentation, then make a thread and do so. The way you express yourself in your posts is just flat out terrible.
@OP - I THINK it'll probably be a BW Starleague, and if so I will be very, very happy. Let's enjoy BW while we can folks.
This thread has made me cry. And it was supposed to be happy. I hope you are all proud of yourselves
Rule of thumb guys, if their is something negative being said and you don't like it, then ignore it. Reply to the posts that are enjoyable to you and embrace what our community has always been about. There will be an OSL coming in the future and until then cheer the hell out of your PL team.
Fair point. I have trouble hiding bittenress nowadays...
It is clear to me that Milkis has some kind of misplaced grudge over someone or something in the BW community and is trying his hardest to stir up irrational and far-fetched negativity in the BW forums. To him, I suggest that he recalls what he has confessed publicly only a few months ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=281042
To the others, I propose that we just ignore his posts, as I will do from now on, until a moderator does what's right.
I disagree. 's far as i know we didn't give him any trouble, only praises. It was when he jumped ship to SC2 and they shit all over him that he became bitter vs E-Sport (i might have missed things, in which case the above 2 lines might not be entirely accurate).
Whatever he knew/knows, the only things he ever posted in a long time are pessimistic junk that can't even hope to lead in anything useful/positive. Well it draws the attention to him, and hes probably enjoying it, and maybe im taking the bait.. But heh, whatever.
@ Taekwon
Internal strife where? o.O
@ BisuDagger
Guess at which point it turned Sour :3 Honestly, it's because of the remaining sliver of respect i still have for him for what he did to us before (translations, news, etc) that i bothered to respond, and hopefully have him post in a respectable manner. Imho interaction is way better than indifference.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
cant compete with the rising popularity of sc2 and lol
On March 03 2012 05:55 Antisocialmunky wrote: I wanna Liquid`OSL. :<
Haha that would be epic. I was just thinking if somehow we could have a community funded Starleague in Korea, but I think that idea is a bit far fetched :D Like if every foreign BW viewer put up $3-4, could we get a prize pool going?? lol
On March 03 2012 00:42 Megaliskuu wrote: Don't forget about Milkis posting "They're playing sc2" in every LR thread where a game is somewhat sloppy, I should start taking bets on how long it takes before he pops in.
On March 03 2012 05:48 Kleinmuuhg wrote: So I guess the 2(3?) sponsors they "had" are all gone ? Cause that's what it sounds like.
The thread from months ago reported only that there were 2 or 3 sponsors interested, which means exactly what it sounds like... That they were just in communication with them, maybe beginning negotiations. Don't make it sound like they have been lying to us. This is the nature of the business. Maybe they got cold feet or didn't want to wait for the LOL tournament to finish... Could be a lot of reasons. The reason they give us little information is because they want to be cautious about what they say. He "predicts" late May, and he does so with the strategy of a lower prize pool to make it more attractive to sponsors. These are reasonable things.
I agree with the cautious posts like "I'll believe it when I see it," I don't think they're expecting much more of the fans, they just want to let fans know that they are still trying. There's is no question that the last year and a half have been tough for Brood War.
What would they have to gain from having an sc2 osl...it's unpopular there, and it's not like they can monetize the foreign scene, which gomtv already has monopolized. And yes, I know they are/have practiced it.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
cant compete with the rising popularity of sc2 and lol
On March 03 2012 06:12 rift wrote: What do they have to gain from having an sc2 osl...it's not like they can monetize the foreign scene, gomtv already has that monopolized
a) unite the BW and SC2 scene and regain interest for Starcraft in korea b) Gom also needs the BW scene so they're going to drop their monopoly in case of an switchover. As far as I'm concerned Gom and Kespa have been negotiating, probably about the finer details in case of switchover. They'll most likely have both partys running a league but I can't imagine a deal where one site does not come out significantly behind.
So it could be that the OSL is going on without Proleague at all? That will be interesting, although usually not as exciting as both going on at the same time. Hopefully if it is JUST the OSL, they will speed up the process of it and not drag it out for 3 months like they usually do. Unless they made the prelims drawn-out like how GOM used to do it, that would be interesting and give a lot of the rookies more exposure on TV (which is vital). I would be OK with a longer tournament if it meant we got to see more games in the process (essentially instead of making all the prelims happen on the same time on the same day, only do 1 match at a time and show all of them (or at least the later rounds of the prelims).
"스타리그를 후원하겠다고 나선 기업이 2개 이상이며 후원 규모만 확정되면 곧바로 리그를 시작할 수 있을 것이라고 전했다." which translated intop Two or more corporations have agreed to sponsor the OSL, and the league will be able to proceed as soon as the amount of sponsorship is fleshed out in detail.
And now we have arrived at the point that we might not even get OSL.
On March 03 2012 06:28 Xiphos wrote: Team 8 had 3 sponsors very much interested in the team and then all of them vanished into thin air. Then this article came along: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=54082
"스타리그를 후원하겠다고 나선 기업이 2개 이상이며 후원 규모만 확정되면 곧바로 리그를 시작할 수 있을 것이라고 전했다." which translated intop Two or more corporations have agreed to sponsor the OSL, and the league will be able to proceed as soon as the amount of sponsorship is fleshed out in detail.
And now we have arrived at the point that we might not even get OSL.
I thought SK was cool toward ESPORT!
Whoever translated that... sigh
"There are two or more corporations who have shown interest to sponsor OSL, and once we finalize everything (in terms of sponsorship money etc.) we can start the league right away"
Simply put, no company have AGREED to sponsor. They have shown interest.
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
cant compete with the rising popularity of sc2 and lol
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
cant compete with the rising popularity of sc2 and lol
LoL i guess, sc2 is pretty dead in korea
Dead you say ? SC2 WAS never rly alive in Korea
It twitched that one time Boxer and Nada played each other in GSL Open Season 2. Post mortem spasm?
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
the scene is alive in korea, a pretty small country from asia, not in europe or america, so what else you can do if not watching and following the BW korean scene?
as long as there's OSL the best RTS will have exposure. simple as that.
That is the question that you have to ask yourself, not me, because I did my part in the past, and will be continuing to do so (translating few articles here and there, trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.)
trying to promote TL on OGN broadcasts etc.) i bet this gonna help alot to the OSL
Actually, my intentions was to raise awareness that there are still foreigners interested in OSL/MSL/Proleague and what not, since there's been this "BW only exists in Korea" point of view for a long time. I only tried to get the name out on the broadcast so that they know foreigners are still interested in BW, even though there's SC2 dominating the foreign scenes. Is it going to directly help OSL itself? No, of course not unless some foreign company sponsors OSL. But will it raise awareness of how big the scene is at the moment, and help OGN realize how many people are waiting for this to happen? I think "yes"
Then again, after reading all the comments in this thread, I'm starting to doubt myself if I did the right thing.
I would not doubt yourself sir. Your doing what you can and your work is very, very much appreciated.
On March 03 2012 00:42 Megaliskuu wrote: Don't forget about Milkis posting "They're playing sc2" in every LR thread where a game is somewhat sloppy, I should start taking bets on how long it takes before he pops in.
+1
Don't forget when he blamed the amount of cheesy/timing attacks on players practicing sc2.
@Milkis you've made your point many times... posting them over and over again without any sources makes you look bitter. I don't even know why you're bitter at BW...
On March 03 2012 07:32 Warpath wrote: If the OSL starts may first, approx when would that plant the grand finals?
generally OSL takes about 3 months to complete from first prelims to finals (Jin Air OSL took exactly 3 months to complete from prelims to finals (6/17 to 9/17) . So if it starts let's say June 1st, then the finals will be in late August/early September.
That is, assuming they do not change the format at all.
On March 03 2012 08:42 eviltomahawk wrote: It would be the most ironic thing ever if Blizzard decided to sponsor a BW OSL with no strings attached.
But that is just the stuff of fantasy, not reality.
If they thought there was value in PR / fan-appreciation they could do it, but there is literally no advertising value since they already get to have their logo everywhere and its their game to begin with. It's something manifesto had suggested as a perfect solution to the bad blood created by the trials, but I'm not really even so sure that affects them at all anymore. People have begun to see Blizzard less as games made by gamers and more just a corporate entity that can't be judged. It used to be they'd make a patch and people would be like 'they still care 8 years later!' but that magic is long gone and I don't know if they care about bringing it back.
On March 03 2012 08:42 eviltomahawk wrote: It would be the most ironic thing ever if Blizzard decided to sponsor a BW OSL with no strings attached.
But that is just the stuff of fantasy, not reality.
If they thought there was value in PR / fan-appreciation they could do it, but there is literally no advertising value since they already get to have their logo everywhere and its their game to begin with. It's something manifesto had suggested as a perfect solution to the bad blood created by the trials, but I'm not really even so sure that affects them at all anymore. People have begun to see Blizzard less as games made by gamers and more just a corporate entity that can't be judged. It used to be they'd make a patch and people would be like 'they still care 8 years later!' but that magic is long gone and I don't know if they care about bringing it back.
Blizz can sponsor 20 OSLs in a roll if they want to.
On March 03 2012 07:32 Warpath wrote: If the OSL starts may first, approx when would that plant the grand finals?
generally OSL takes about 3 months to complete from first prelims to finals (Jin Air OSL took exactly 3 months to complete from prelims to finals (6/17 to 9/17) . So if it starts let's say June 1st, then the finals will be in late August/early September.
That is, assuming they do not change the format at all.
Good, I don't want to miss the possible last opportunity to see a grand final live >.<
On March 02 2012 18:40 Ribbon wrote: Well, at least we're getting an OSL. OSL > Proleague for me.
On March 02 2012 17:17 Kanil wrote:
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
It's not doing well anywhere. Absolutely no one is making any money in any "e-sport", including LoL and both Starcrafts. The LoL scene is just an ad for the game. There are about 50 more SC2 tournaments than its scene can support, so there's a big crash coming for that (With GSL and MLG being the winners, IMO).
None of Brood War's problems are unique to BW, excepting maybe a culture of gloom that's probably not all that helpful, and a history of BIG EXPENSIVE AWESOME STARLEAGUES that are hard to justify now.
Except China i guess. When this is your team house, you imagine e-sports has to be doing well there.
Also when e-sports ( dota/wc3) teams got bought for 6 million usd, players command a transfer fee and the demands for Esports in your country is so high that you will host 2 WCG in a row. I heard LoL is gaining massive popularity in China as well. I'd say the only way BW will be saved is if China helps save it ( such a pity regarding the typhoon i guess as it would have helped tremendously, instead it left a bitter taste)
The thing about Chinese fan support for BW is that it's a niche group. Granted, it's a hell of a lot bigger than foreign(non-Chinese/Korean) fanbase, but watching streams/vods in China I don't get the feel that it's really huge.
I think OGN had the right idea with the finals going to China and stuff to open the market. And I do hope they continue in this pursuit as a new source of revenue stream. But they'd have to be very clever in terms of how they utilize the market.
To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
On March 02 2012 18:40 Ribbon wrote: Well, at least we're getting an OSL. OSL > Proleague for me.
On March 02 2012 17:17 Kanil wrote:
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
It's not doing well anywhere. Absolutely no one is making any money in any "e-sport", including LoL and both Starcrafts. The LoL scene is just an ad for the game. There are about 50 more SC2 tournaments than its scene can support, so there's a big crash coming for that (With GSL and MLG being the winners, IMO).
None of Brood War's problems are unique to BW, excepting maybe a culture of gloom that's probably not all that helpful, and a history of BIG EXPENSIVE AWESOME STARLEAGUES that are hard to justify now.
Except China i guess. When this is your team house, you imagine e-sports has to be doing well there.
Also when e-sports ( dota/wc3) teams got bought for 6 million usd, players command a transfer fee and the demands for Esports in your country is so high that you will host 2 WCG in a row. I heard LoL is gaining massive popularity in China as well. I'd say the only way BW will be saved is if China helps save it ( such a pity regarding the typhoon i guess as it would have helped tremendously, instead it left a bitter taste)
Until they tell me they actually have a sponsor, I don't believe it.
The end of the MSL was rough enough, but I'm finally ready to say that the BW scene ends with the second half of the PL season. We've lost 1 channel, 4 teams, and gone from 6 individual leagues per year to perhaps zero. The end is near.
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
yea but milkis knows some guys
sorry
Well, his icon is a sentry. Apparently, there are no sentries in BW. They're in this other game I've heard about... Pokemon? No wait. Zelda.
Not that I entirely trust forum elites' words these days. I recall another individual who heard some rather serious things through this grapevine...
Oh my god, people. It's a BW OSL. Of course it's a BW OSL, because GOM has the rights to SC2 in Korea for a ew more months. Besides, it's the natural assumption, and if they did do a bait-and-switch, it'd be an obvious shitstorm.
I guarantee you, if OGN decides to do a final OSL before stopping BW, they will HYPE THE SHIT out of "The Last BW Champion".
On March 03 2012 00:42 Megaliskuu wrote: Don't forget about Milkis posting "They're playing sc2" in every LR thread where a game is somewhat sloppy, I should start taking bets on how long it takes before he pops in.
BW teams have been going to switch to SC2 within 40 days for the last 6 months.
On March 03 2012 01:39 supernovamaniac wrote: The signs are already noticeable to those who know what the signs are (obvious and most notable ones: computer/monitor switch). Not implying that what Milkis says will happen (then again, it may happen since Milkis did have closer contact with some SC2 teams in Korea during his MLG days as translator).
CRT monitors are getting hard to find, too. I don't see much evidence that BW is going to get suddenly dropped. OGN could well take up SC2 on the side, but it doesn't mean giving up BW, and there's really no reason to think it has to be one or the other. There's absolutely no reason to assume that SC2 will necessarily replace BW any more than there is to assume LoL will.
On March 03 2012 03:18 Chef wrote: They run SF proleague at the same time as BW proleague...
And they run a Kart Rider league too, what's your point.
There are other leagues yes, but what is going to be your flagship?
The biggest one? Which is BW by FAR. Even with SC2 going up and BW going down, there's a LONG way before SC2 eclipses BW in popularity, if it ever does.
And even if SC2 becomes the flagship....so? Are they going to drop Brood War and keep Kart Rider?
Yes, BW could lose flagship status. Yes, BW could get massive budget cuts. But it's not going to suddenly disappear
On March 03 2012 03:34 jumbotroN wrote: cmon guys, its time to raise the sword and fight for the game we love. keep supporting the BW scene by watching the leagues and stuff, the game will live as long as people care about it.
Simply "watching" BW isn't enough to keep the scene alive, thank you.
Sadly, the Foreign BW scene isn't monetized. Much like the SC2 scene isn't well monitized and no one's making money from it. It's not like SC2 is this financial powerhouse.
On March 02 2012 18:40 Ribbon wrote: Well, at least we're getting an OSL. OSL > Proleague for me.
On March 02 2012 17:17 Kanil wrote:
On March 02 2012 17:10 mrRoflpwn wrote: i thought BW was really big in korea which is why sc2 hasn't really been super popular their, guess even the famed BW is having troubles- hope for all the fans that it stays alive.
MBCgame shutting down suggests esports in general is not doing well in Korea.
It's not doing well anywhere. Absolutely no one is making any money in any "e-sport", including LoL and both Starcrafts. The LoL scene is just an ad for the game. There are about 50 more SC2 tournaments than its scene can support, so there's a big crash coming for that (With GSL and MLG being the winners, IMO).
None of Brood War's problems are unique to BW, excepting maybe a culture of gloom that's probably not all that helpful, and a history of BIG EXPENSIVE AWESOME STARLEAGUES that are hard to justify now.
Except China i guess. When this is your team house, you imagine e-sports has to be doing well there.
Also when e-sports ( dota/wc3) teams got bought for 6 million usd, players command a transfer fee and the demands for Esports in your country is so high that you will host 2 WCG in a row. I heard LoL is gaining massive popularity in China as well. I'd say the only way BW will be saved is if China helps save it ( such a pity regarding the typhoon i guess as it would have helped tremendously, instead it left a bitter taste)
JEBUS. That is sick.
That's a big part of why War3 died, actually. Too much money spent on the players.
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
yea but milkis knows some guys
sorry
Well, his icon is a sentry. Apparently, there are no sentries in BW. They're in this other game I've heard about... Pokemon? No wait. Zelda.
Not that I entirely trust forum elites' words these days. I recall another individual who heard some rather serious things through this grapevine...
Milkis knows next to nothing about SC2, which is why he's apparently afraid of it.
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
yea but milkis knows some guys
sorry
I'm not interested in what somebody said. What I'm interested in is if the current generation of BW players, coaches, and OGN are just willing to throw away BW as easily as people talk like they are going to. How many BW players and coaches actually even remotely care about SC2? Do you think they are just going to be like sheep and move to the next field of grass because someone tells them to? What if 90% of the players actually don't give a shit about SC2? What if OGN finds that about 10 BW progamers decide to continue in SC2?
From the perspective of OGN, they are going to lose a dedicated fanbase as well as eat all kinds of shit if they suddenly cancel proleague. BW is 12 years old. A fanbase that still watches it is as dedicated as its ever going to get. Does OGN want to lose all of that? And then SC2 isn't exactly doing that great either in korea. SC2 in south korea hasn't been able to garner the kind of broad spectatorship that BW has, they still have race balancing issues, their teams have problems finding stable sponsorship from larger korean corporations as is typical in korean professional sport, and its turning out to be highly niched entertainment that very few people other than casual SC2 players enjoy. That OGN would choose to pour everything into SC2 while simply dumping proleague is just mind-boggling. I would be just speechless if this really happened come this summer.
On March 03 2012 01:39 supernovamaniac wrote: The signs are already noticeable to those who know what the signs are (obvious and most notable ones: computer/monitor switch). Not implying that what Milkis says will happen (then again, it may happen since Milkis did have closer contact with some SC2 teams in Korea during his MLG days as translator).
CRT monitors are getting hard to find, too. I don't see much evidence that BW is going to get suddenly dropped. OGN could well take up SC2 on the side, but it doesn't mean giving up BW, and there's really no reason to think it has to be one or the other. There's absolutely no reason to assume that SC2 will necessarily replace BW any more than there is to assume LoL will.
1. Finding CRT monitors have nothing to do with their supply of CRT monitors. If you enter the semi-stadium next to OGN, there's tons of stations setup for courage/Starleague prelim etc.
2. Picking up SC2 does not necessarily imply that BW will be dropped completely.
Can someone just fully translate the article? Hard to tell if it's actually good news or not with the amount extreme optimism and pessimism going on here.
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
yea but milkis knows some guys
sorry
I'm not interested in what somebody said. What I'm interested in is if the current generation of BW players, coaches, and OGN are just willing to throw away BW as easily as people talk like they are going to. How many BW players and coaches actually even remotely care about SC2? Do you think they are just going to be like sheep and move to the next field of grass because someone tells them to? What if 90% of the players actually don't give a shit about SC2? What if OGN finds that about 10 BW progamers decide to continue in SC2?
From the perspective of OGN, they are going to lose a dedicated fanbase as well as eat all kinds of shit if they suddenly cancel proleague. BW is 12 years old. A fanbase that still watches it is as dedicated as its ever going to get. Does OGN want to lose all of that? And then SC2 isn't exactly doing that great either in korea. SC2 in south korea hasn't been able to garner the kind of broad spectatorship that BW has, they still have race balancing issues, their teams have problems finding stable sponsorship from larger korean corporations as is typical in korean professional sport, and its turning out to be highly niched entertainment that very few people other than casual SC2 players enjoy. That OGN would choose to pour everything into SC2 while simply dumping proleague is just mind-boggling. I would be just speechless if this really happened come this summer.
While I'm on the "BW isn't about to die everyone calm the fuck down" side, the players' opinions are almost entirely irrelevant to the discussion. They're not playing BW fourteen hours a day because it's fun. It's their jobs. Anyone who wanted to switch to SC2 from BW already has, but it's not like Flash would decide to become a professional breakdancer or something.
On March 03 2012 12:21 white_horse wrote: To everyone who is listening in on the rumors that ongamenet and kespa are going to throw BW in the dump and ship everything to SC2 come April 2012:
I have absolutely no idea why OGN would do this. First of all, there is still a large existing fanbase for BW in korea, it still pulls in viewership, and its popular enough that BW-related topics shoot up the searchbar rankings in korean portal sites like nate and daum when interesting things happen (jaedong's drone ramp blocking to turn's game with stats). Last year's OSL tells me that BW is still enjoyed by a broad fanbase. How close has SC2 or LoL gotten to BW in korea? How close has any other game gotten? To assume that the BW fans are going to drop BW and immediately pick up SC2 and to assume that OGN is suddenly going to increase its televesion viewership in a BW-less broadcast is really retarded.
And then the players and coaches themselves. Who is going to insure that all these players are going to suddenly start playing something that they have little or no interest in? Why would TBLS or any other A-class player switch to something else when they are currently doing what they enjoy and getting paid (good money) for it? Players like hydra, effort, and stork have mentioned in interviews how much they love BW and how much they enjoy playing it. Can we assume that these players are suddenly going to pour they same passion and interest into SC2 as they did with BW? And for the SC2 fans to claim that SC2 will somehow magically become better with all the great BW players switching just tells me that they are essentially acknowledging that SC2 currently isn't interesting to watch as it could be. If SC2 cannot produce any colorful characters or personable players now, they aren't ever going to in the future unless the game gets a total overhaul. I'm not even going to go further into this.
Anyways, I really don't get why OGN would be so stupid to just totally throw away BW so easily when its still so exciting. And I still don't get how people here just assume the transition is going to be neat and clean. Can you imagine the uproar from BW spectators? Would players like sea, jaedong, killer, leta, hydra, flash, movie, baby just be like "ok BW is over, lets clean up everyone. Lets all drop our keyboards and start doing something that we have little interest in"?
If anything, OGN should continue BW, pick up SC2, and capitalize on LoL so that they build a three-pronged set of leagues, while continuing the kartrider league and the special forces II proleague. That would be the best way to go. If OGN decides to dump BW and do an all-in with SC2, OGN is going to go bankrupt. And for god sakes, understand that if for some reason BW happens to disappear, thats the death knell for everything else too. If people want to make SC2 and LoL as great as BW, they better darn hope that it doesn't die. If a giant like BW disappears, how can other games survive as long?
yea but milkis knows some guys
sorry
Well, his icon is a sentry. Apparently, there are no sentries in BW. They're in this other game I've heard about... Pokemon? No wait. Zelda.
Not that I entirely trust forum elites' words these days. I recall another individual who heard some rather serious things through this grapevine...
Talking about sentries, I can only recall the one from half life 1 1998 . I mean they have scanners which sweeps the area to scan if there is any hostile around the area and than releases a volley of bullets to whoever dare crosses it's path . Playing half life 1 was awesome .
On March 02 2012 23:35 Dante08 wrote: I miss those days where there were 2 properly scheduled starleagues and plenty of epic matches to look forward to. Now the MSL is gone, and the starting dates for the last 2 OSLs are like one year apart or something. Oh well better than nothing
QFT man. I loved watching/following the two starleagues through the finals. Staying up late to watch a BW final is the best feeling.
Finnally, really I dont really like proleuge that much, I want another OSL and if BW must die this year, I want two OSLs. 1st one in May, Bisu wins it, and the 2nd Jaedong becomes good again and we see an epic final with really long games between Flash and Jaedong and of course Flash wins 4:3 yay!
On March 03 2012 20:38 Dodgin wrote: Still waiting for that post, Milkis.
You already missed them!
Nope. Few people on the BW forums told me to don't start anymore shit and asked me not to post it and i obliged
Where did anyone say they didn't want to hear the truth? The only thing people didn't want to hear is your cryptic one liners that do nothing other than stir shit up, you know exactly what you're doing. We are all wanting to hear concrete news one way or the other, and we're also hoping that you might be able to provide something realistic and believable rather than just spewing negativity.
On March 03 2012 20:38 Dodgin wrote: Still waiting for that post, Milkis.
You already missed them!
Nope. Few people on the BW forums told me to don't start anymore shit and asked me not to post it and i obliged
Where did anyone say they didn't want to hear the truth? The only thing people didn't want to hear is your cryptic one liners that do nothing other than stir shit up, you know exactly what you're doing. We are all wanting to hear concrete news one way or the other, and we're also hoping that you might be able to provide something realistic and believable rather than just spewing negativity.
is the only that he can do. so better he not post anymore.lets get fun posting in other forum...
I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
On March 05 2012 14:04 oBlade wrote: I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
lol haha
I totally did that too. But I'd often have trouble remembering my PIN number at the ATM machine.
On March 05 2012 14:04 oBlade wrote: I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
What is the significance of going to the ATM machine in relation to OSL? And what PDF file are you referring to?
On March 05 2012 14:04 oBlade wrote: I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
What is the significance of going to the ATM machine in relation to OSL? And what PDF file are you referring to?
The joke is that the SL in OSL stands for "Starleague", so saying "OSL Starleague" is redundant. The execution of the joke was to refer to other situations in which people make the same mistake, such as PIN (Personal Identification Number) Number and ATM (Automated Teller Machine) Machine.
Although I looked up PDF and Wikipedia says that it stands for Portable Document Format, so if that's the case then "PDF File" is actually a non-example :<
On March 05 2012 14:04 oBlade wrote: I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
On March 05 2012 14:04 oBlade wrote: I am glad we are going to have more "OSL Starleague." In fact, one of my fondest memories of the "OSL Starleague" is getting off work, going to an ATM machine and reading a PDF file right before I sat down and watched some of the OSL Starleague with my TL Liquid friends.
What is the significance of going to the ATM machine in relation to OSL? And what PDF file are you referring to?
The joke is that the SL in OSL stands for "Starleague", so saying "OSL Starleague" is redundant. The execution of the joke was to refer to other situations in which people make the same mistake, such as PIN (Personal Identification Number) Number and ATM (Automated Teller Machine) Machine.
Although I looked up PDF and Wikipedia says that it stands for Portable Document Format, so if that's the case then "PDF File" is actually a non-example :<
I understand - although I was more looking forward to learning about some type of odd correlation between the OSL, ATM machines, and PDF files (blinded in a manner of speaking I guess).
I've thought about this issue before: technically, it is redundant to repeat words that are already contained in an acronym, however, the meaning conveyed from such redundancy is often quite useful (and not redundant). In this case, I don't know if I would call it a mistake so much as a (societal) technique to facilitate communication (increased speed/ease of communicating(by speaker), and better processing of info. (by listener)). For example if I ask, "where can I find my PIN" - to a listener, this is often going to be ambiguous (especially if context is lacking) and in any case, if I do not specify - "Where can i find my PIN number" the processing speed of a listener is going to be significantly slower anyways (waste of time). The other alternatives, e.g. "where is my Personal Identification Number", "where is my PI Number", are slower ways to ask the question, and/or lack societal awareness (so processing would be slower). This concept also applies to other acronyms.
So I guess, in other words, would there be a better way to use these acronyms in interpersonal communication, without using redundancy, with the overall goal of optimizing speed/ease of communication? Maybe not. I would draw a conclusion here, but it seems quite obvious to me.
EPT
. It sucks they are having trouble finding sponsors or whatever for it T_T
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