Hi everyone! I've been meaning to post something like this for a while.
I am an SC2 player. However I've grown increasingly uncomfortable with that game recently and have decided to take a break for a month or two and while pondering the games I would play in my break from SC2 I decided to play Brood war!
So I play Terran in SC2 and figured I would play Terran in BW too. The problem is that I have no idea what I'm doing! Aside from the control groups thing which simply needs practice to overcome. I have no clue about strategies. So with that in mind I jumped into a ladder game and set off!
I have played vs the AI to get a feel for things and now I truly appreciate players that play this game for a living. What skill required for this game! So I practiced a 1 rax FE a couple games against the AI getting a feel for things. However, my first ladder game would happen to be against a protoss player. All I know about that is I have to mech. Well, I got slaughtered. But instead of feeling angry I just laughed. Trying to hit o for the tanks and hitting 9 or 0 instead and selecting scans haha.
I think I'm going to love this game. You may or may not see me around on ICCUP under Cure2. Probably languishing under D- for months
To liquipedia! Learn ALL the things!
EDIT: I've decided to stream whenever I play BW so look out for that
Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
join sGs if you please! It's a clan for lowlevel players just like you and me (check this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=272674). And whenever you see me online (sGs.amatoer) you can ask for games I'm Zerg and even though I just hit D+ yesterday (yeeeeeeeehaw!) we can play games and analyze the replays afterwards!
You made the right choice! I think the transition from sc2 terran to bw terran is going to be a bit weird, because you are going to be using those slow, clunky tanks alot more, and that whole spidermine thing. But good luck! You could try the other races and get a feel for how they work as well.
If you really want to stick to terran, by all means do so. But I think protoss in BW is more similar to terran in sc2 as they are more offensive and have a variant of harass based openings (if you like that kind of thing). Terran is just so much work to get into but when you do you can kick some ass with just sheer mechanics.
I have also begun to play a bit of BW coming from SC2. However Im a pretty bad zerg player about D rank with a 5-14 record. Let me know if you want to practice some time.
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
Pfft, by who? Zerg is definitely the hardest in terms of counter-intuitiveness. Terran and Toss have the most early game options and ways to practice their start up. Zerg basically have to play for mid-game and can die before they even get a chance to do anything, and when they do get to that midgame they have less chances to practice it since they don't get to it every game.
In the early days when Terran and Toss didn't FE I might have agreed because Zerg had some strength throughout the game, but these days it is a huge task for a Zerg to figure out how to manage his economy and compete with an FE without dying.
Of course all races have their difficulties, but the best thing about Terran is that they have the most learning resources and guides and FPVODs to help you. Zerg basically have 5 year old commentaries by Chill hahahaha.
Btw, if you want to watch how we low level players play the game, check out the D Ranks Team League that will happen Saturday, Feb 25 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I guess I'm another person who discovered brood-war by playing SC2. Whenever I get bored of SC2 I'll just go and play some BW. I play Zerg in both games and the only thing I really miss going back to BW is covering the map in creep lol. Both games are fun to play, however laddering in BW seems to be a lot more srsbsns than in SC2.
You'll have to get used to the more demanding mechanics but it's so much more fun once you do. There are so much stuff to do in the game that it always feels action packed. Here's a few tips:
Bind each of your base to 2 F-keys so you can tell your workers to mine and transfer them from base to base. Leave the last F-key for your rax which you should clump in a nice grid. To macro just recall that particular key and cycle through the buildings without the need of moving away from this screen. Use number hotkeys for units, comsats, and extra CCs.
Best thing about BW, even if you lose your first 300 games, you will still get addicted.
On February 24 2012 08:36 AyameStarcraft wrote: Thanks for all the support guys!
I really think I'm going to enjoy this game a lot it's looking very fun. Speed vultures are freaking epic. Currently learning FD TvP. Looks great!
Luckily in TvZ your skills should transfer over a bit. Tank Marine Medic is standard (although pure bio is also very popular [called SKTerran]). Marine splits vs Lurkers and Darkswarm is like vs Banelings. Drops are a lot more powerful in BW that if you take out a base with 1 micro'd drop early on you are set to have a very strong lead and you can kill 50 banelings worth of units with just 2 medic, 1 firebat, 5 marine drop if you micro well enough.
TvP will be a whole new kettle of fish, but there are many styles you can play. You can play aggressive or passive depending on what style suits you. There's no sense of a ticking clock like in SC2, you can win at any stage of the game, early mid or late as long as you cost efficient with your units (and Terran in BW can be very cost-efficient).
If you want someone to practise with feel free to add me on Iccup. /f add sGs.Slugger
Enjoy the game! Practice, practice, practice and you will find it easier in the end. Terran is quite apm demanding (atleast versus Zerg if you go bio), and as you get more skilled and start playing better oponents it becomes more difficult. But stick in there and practice hotkeys and build orders, and you will have an awsome time BW forever<3
I've sort of done the same thing. I've been keeping up with OSL and Proleague but I've never played ladder. Im starting up the campaign again after not touching since 8th grade.
On February 24 2012 09:01 deathtrance wrote: This is a genius idea. I'm a terran as well, and I guess I'll steal ur idea
perhaps it'll help me more with sc2, but w/e
so I'm guessing bio is pretty bad in sc1?
Yes because any tech outside of dragoons and zealots are capable of ripping through marines pretty badly. Reaver scarabs or psi storm = insta-death for any bio unit the terran has.
On February 24 2012 09:01 deathtrance wrote: This is a genius idea. I'm a terran as well, and I guess I'll steal ur idea
perhaps it'll help me more with sc2, but w/e
so I'm guessing bio is pretty bad in sc1?
Yes because any tech outside of dragoons and zealots are capable of ripping through marines pretty badly. Reaver scarabs or psi storm = insta-death for any bio unit the terran has.
I want to start bw too, but I'm trying to become good at sc2 hehe :| (at least dia-masters with a race before going onto BW)... only problem is I kind of was like "Ok gonna learn protoss!" and I'm still plat with both terran and zerg (lol). ==
You have the right idea starting with 1rax FE. Just play it out vs the computer like 20 times until you have the build order memorized and you can do it without missing depots and stuff. The next hard step is doing it all while paying attention to your opponent, the map, and your army, all while thinking about the current state of the game and what you should be doing (this only comes with mass games and practice).
i also suggest getting some type APM alarm (I think APMAlert is one, among others, search the forum). One of the biggest differences between BW and SC2 is that in SC2, you benefit from being fast and having high APM - in BW, its a requirement. Boxing workers and spamming hotkeys at the start of the game seems stupid at first, but it gets your fingers warmed up and if you engrain that 1-2-3-4 muscle memory into you, you will have a much easier time moving your army around.
For any new-to-BW terrans, do yourself a favor and Check out Stylish'S FPVODs http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86770 . I think they're outdated with respect to current trends in the pro scene, but just being able to watch someone play terran, explain their thought process, and give you various build orders will help alot.
Good luck! broodwar is the shit. Also switch to protoss if you get tired of getting owned, its much easier to learn.
^^ I used to have that problem. I think it was about not being the super admin or something. You might need to take ownership of the folder..check the permissions, or try installing it in some other place.
On February 24 2012 11:50 TehTemplar wrote: Maybe I should also learn how to play brood war xD What's the broodwar equivalent of SC2 copper? That's where I'd be Good luck!
SC2 bronze you mean?
It just means you will lose more games initially before you start winning. Luckily the learning path is much easier to understand in BW than SC2 because its more defined. BW liquipedia has much more useful information than SC2, and in the SC2 strategy section you will see all these builds and you never know which ones are actually viable.
Often in SC2 you will hit ceilings where you just don't know how to get better, you should never have this problem in BW, because worst comes to worst, you can just improve your mechanics and game-sense. Its much easier to understand why you lost in BW too, because at the core, the game is much simpler. That makes losses a lot less frustrating for a lot of people.
However you will find your biggest leaps in improvement will come when you understand strategy and how to execute builds a lot more which you have to discover on your own watching replays/vods/friends.
I'm in the same situation as the OP - I just started playing bw ICCUP a couple of days ago because my laptop keeps on shutting down when I'm in the middle of a game of sc2, and bw doesn't take near the graphics power to run, so my computer has no trouble with it. BW is a great game, and I've always enjoyed playing it, but this is the first time I've ever played it competitively at all. Laddering with it is fun but yeah, TvZ is almost impossible for me in BW, which I guess makes sense because it's my worst matchup in sc2. I'm happy, though, because so far I'm undefeated in TvT :D
On February 24 2012 12:54 AyameStarcraft wrote: So I hate the siege mode button. Why does it have to be o
I keep hitting L or i or 0 instead....gah. Practice practice practice. Play play play
Keep up the good work!
I'm actually considering changing my tanks hotkey from 3-4 to 7-8 for this reason as well.
On February 24 2012 13:01 CakeSauc3 wrote: I'm in the same situation as the OP - I just started playing bw ICCUP a couple of days ago because my laptop keeps on shutting down when I'm in the middle of a game of sc2, and bw doesn't take near the graphics power to run, so my computer has no trouble with it. BW is a great game, and I've always enjoyed playing it, but this is the first time I've ever played it competitively at all. Laddering with it is fun but yeah, TvZ is almost impossible for me in BW, which I guess makes sense because it's my worst matchup in sc2. I'm happy, though, because so far I'm undefeated in TvT :D
At low levels players will often go 2 hatch lurker all in. There is a very specific and tricky way to defend against this reactively (3 bunkers, turrets, range upgrade, tank or drop). Plus you don't have orbital so you have to decide when to get a comsat.
You are probably better off just going mech or early siege biomech until you get better multitask. Also 1 turret also won't save you from mutas, you will need at least 2 or 3 per base depending on muta count.
Have a look for Stylish's 1 base 2 fact armory speed vults/mines into expand goliaths/tanks, its a very solid build especially for low ranks. FE mech is a lot harder to do and lower level players will just die to any aggression.
On February 24 2012 09:23 sluggaslamoo wrote: Best thing about BW, even if you lose your first 300 games, you will still get addicted.
*Worst thing about BW.
lol so true. ive lost so many games that i know I should uninstall but i just keep coming back. i can lose 20 games in a day but if i win the last one then it just makes it all worth it.
On February 24 2012 12:54 AyameStarcraft wrote: So I hate the siege mode button. Why does it have to be o
I keep hitting L or i or 0 instead....gah. Practice practice practice. Play play play
the funny thing is I have mine as q seige and w unseige in SC2
also the other funny thing is one time I was playing in BW (against computer mind you) and making marines from M, so then I played SC2 and I kept on lifting my barracks (N) because I kept missing M (not to mention A = marines in SC2)
On February 24 2012 12:12 JPoPP wrote: not sure if anyone can help me here but I'm having this problem trying to install the iccup launcher, and I am running it on admin.
On February 24 2012 08:29 OPKutty wrote: I guess I'm another person who discovered brood-war by playing SC2. Whenever I get bored of SC2 I'll just go and play some BW. I play Zerg in both games and the only thing I really miss going back to BW is covering the map in creep lol. Both games are fun to play, however laddering in BW seems to be a lot more srsbsns than in SC2.
At least the unit speed makes up for itself and doesn't have to be on creep. Entirely different. Got to love hydras too ;D
Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Wait, are you like the only person alive who prefers Bnet 2.0 to the original one lol?
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Wait, are you like the only person alive who prefers Bnet 2.0 to the original one lol?
Tbh to me the SC2 matchmaking system makes up for everything. It annoys me in BW when for me a "good season" is going 3-20. I keep setting up my "1v1 D-" games and random D+ people keep joining. If I weren't in D minus minus minus this wouldn't be a problem though lol.
Back to the topic of the thread, I just started playing BW a few weeks ago in order to have some variety with SC2 (I played BW for about a year before SC2 came out, but with the SC2 skills I have learned I am a lot better than I used to be). I am plat Zerg SC2 and Terran BW, so I'm getting used to this whole "micro" thing where you do something that is not a-moving zerglings and banelings.
Also, I am terrible at tank pushes TvP. And I don't know how to deny bases or harass once they're up. The army is so immobile T_T. It's fun though.
On February 24 2012 12:12 JPoPP wrote: not sure if anyone can help me here but I'm having this problem trying to install the iccup launcher, and I am running it on admin.
I used to be a D+ Zerg, quit playing for a couple of years, and now suck. Like as in I decided the other day that I missed the feeling of putting together a good game for a win, so I got on ICCup, and everyone is ten times better than they used to be. I think I might have to switch to protoss. I can't even remember how I got to D+. Going to have to re-learn the game. Am looking forward to this. :-D
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Wait, are you like the only person alive who prefers Bnet 2.0 to the original one lol?
Tbh to me the SC2 matchmaking system makes up for everything. It annoys me in BW when for me a "good season" is going 3-20. I keep setting up my "1v1 D-" games and random D+ people keep joining. If I weren't in D minus minus minus this wouldn't be a problem though lol.
Back to the topic of the thread, I just started playing BW a few weeks ago in order to have some variety with SC2 (I played BW for about a year before SC2 came out, but with the SC2 skills I have learned I am a lot better than I used to be). I am plat Zerg SC2 and Terran BW, so I'm getting used to this whole "micro" thing where you do something that is not a-moving zerglings and banelings.
Also, I am terrible at tank pushes TvP. And I don't know how to deny bases or harass once they're up. The army is so immobile T_T. It's fun though.
Some people will say this is really bad advice but I found 5-6 fact 3 machine-shop late timing as a really nice stepping stone for learning how to push. Once I won a few games, my execution improved a lot more and was able to push with less facts and get my 3rd faster.
Its just really hard when you are starting out and sieging a second too late and dying or expanding and losing your 3rd base immediately. This timing will give you enough buffer that even if you siege a bit late, forget to mine, macro slips a bit, you will still have a chance of winning. With good macro agaisnt D players you don't even need to seige and can just a-move tanks. Basically you will hit a timing where Protoss won't have that many units and you will have a lot more, because Toss will be getting his 3rd off a low gate count by then.
Once you get used to pushing you can then reduce the factory count and expand earlier so it will be a lot less allin-ish.
I also recently started playing BW because I was away from home for 3 weeks with only a netbook and very slow internet. Gave terran a go because I had played zerg and toss in sc2. Playing on a netbook is not exactly conducive to high skill, I think I went 1-8 (and one guy disc when I had won) at D-
It is definitely fun, just macroing stuff out and clicking real fast is fun really, never mind actually fighting people. Now that I'm back home with my desktop I might have to give it another go (with stable internet this time so I don't get continually booted from iccup games.)
also I will take that piece of advice about using function keys to save camera locations for macro. I keep having to look down at my keyboard to find M, O, etc.
I'm awful at BW but I had loads of fun just playing random and doing whatever weird build occurs to me. Just experiment.
If you want to get better faster though, definitely watch progamer replays. My friend got two whole Iccup ranks better than me just by writing down Jaedong's builds and copying them. He told me, "Wow, Jaedong uses really good builds." Suddenly he could win games, which is refreshing when you're a beginner (you can easily lose 10-20 games in a row even if you're trying hard).
One of the great things about BW though is you will have fun playing it at a high level, and you will have fun if you are absolutely terrible like me. BW is fun at every level! So play it the way you like it.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Haha, I went through this EXACT phase 2 years ago. Get ready for the month fun, frustrating, and rewarding few months of your life. My first ladder win came at 1-53. I was so happy, I ran around my house (as a 20 year old). God I love BW.
On February 24 2012 16:59 Beef Noodles wrote: Haha, I went through this EXACT phase 2 years ago. Get ready for the month fun, frustrating, and rewarding few months of your life. My first ladder win came at 1-53. I was so happy, I ran around my house (as a 20 year old). God I love BW.
haha yeah i only won a game because the guy 4 pooled me and i scouted first time and can micro a little bit
TvP pushing: Scan all the flanks, if you miss something, send a few vultures there + mines. Then, go with tanks to your opponnent, and meanwhile mine the flanks with the vultures (it would be great if your tanks are hugging a cliff or a zoned out space where you're 100% sure there's no protoss units). If you're afraid of a front attack just keep scanning ahead or send 1-2-3 vultures ahead to scout. When you see his army is relatively close but not engaging, siege several tanks and keep advancing.
If you think he's going to attack (usually either when you're going out of your natural or you backed him in a corner/good flanking position, or he's trying to prevent you from obtaining a good position), siege everything up and mine the front, but don't keep the vultures too forward (unless you're playing the heavy vulture low tank style). It basically all depends on his army composition, the ratio of zealots and dragoons (and ht). More zealots -> more vultures. More dragoons -> more tanks. More ht -> more vultures usually.
Remember, scans are your friend. At your level you probably won't be using them for other things anyway. If you don't have scans, just send 2x6 vultures to the flanks and place mines there so you'll know where his army is, then push out.
After reading this thread i decided to play sc:bw, i had played it maybe 5 hours in total in the past before i knew sc2.... now playing the protoss campaign..just somehow this games feels and looks more like starcraft then starcraft 2 does.. its darker and more immersive for some reason :p
I have the same feeling when i play BW :D i have no clue about tactics and army comp etc, but i still manage to beat some d/-d players in iccup because of the macro i have from SC2
I switched to T recently, so I feel your pain AND excitement. The best thing to do in the beginning is to pick the most basic strat in a MU and practice until you feel like you understand all of it and you're just missing APM and decision making to win. Then it's easier to learn other builds and understand how they work and why. Good luck.
SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
On February 24 2012 22:45 Candadar wrote: SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
iccup first. Then once you reach C+/B-, then start playing on the Korean Fish server.
On February 24 2012 22:29 Fus wrote: I have the same feeling when i play BW :D i have no clue about tactics and army comp etc, but i still manage to beat some d/-d players in iccup because of the macro i have from SC2
it's funny, the same thing happened to me, but in the opposite direction ^^ I get a lot of win in sc2 with no strategy, just because of my bw macro ^^
I recommend playing brood war as warm up before sc2 laddering. It makes playing sc2 feel really easy, when it comes to the macro mechanics, playing a game that feels easy to your hands aint too bad.
On February 24 2012 22:45 Candadar wrote: SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
iccup first. Then once you reach C+/B-, then start playing on the Korean Fish server.
I have yet to get to that point.
Just am a bit conflicted. Not sure I can get used to only 12(?) units at a time, especially if I go zerg or something. How do I work hotkeys in this scenario? I'm thinking of going either Z or T, can't decide.
On February 24 2012 22:45 Candadar wrote: SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
iccup first. Then once you reach C+/B-, then start playing on the Korean Fish server.
I have yet to get to that point.
Just am a bit conflicted. Not sure I can get used to only 12(?) units at a time, especially if I go zerg or something. How do I work hotkeys in this scenario? I'm thinking of going either Z or T, can't decide.
On February 24 2012 22:45 Candadar wrote: SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
iccup first. Then once you reach C+/B-, then start playing on the Korean Fish server.
I have yet to get to that point.
Just am a bit conflicted. Not sure I can get used to only 12(?) units at a time, especially if I go zerg or something. How do I work hotkeys in this scenario? I'm thinking of going either Z or T, can't decide.
You re-hotkey if necessary, it's about priority. Do you really need to have all the hatcheries hotkeyed? Can you get away with using F2-F4 to cover hatchery production? Do you really need to hotkey a bunch of lings that you're sending to die to random spidermines? I'm not sure what the 'proper' way to deal with this is for each race. Either way you will probably end up facing situations were the interface just won't be enough for you to do whatever you feel like no matter how fast and refined your mechanics are. That's what makes the game beautiful IMO. You're not just trying to outplay your opponent, you're trying to beat the game itself as well. Btw. You should go through liquipedia, there will probably a lot of knowledge on proper hotkey usage. I'm trying to figure this stuff out by myself
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
I consider cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates cheese but I know I should be able to scout them and defend properly, its just annoying trying to learn the game when you end up in these kind of situations instead
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
I consider cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates cheese but I know I should be able to scout them and defend properly, its just annoying trying to learn the game when you end up in these kind of situations instead
If that's what has happened to you.... that's like worst luck on the planet. I've played plenty of games but other than a couple ling and hydra allins from 2/3 hatches I haven't run into anything resembling cheese.
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
I consider cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates cheese but I know I should be able to scout them and defend properly, its just annoying trying to learn the game when you end up in these kind of situations instead
You got cannon rushed and proxy 2 gate 6 times in a row on Iccup ? Do you play zerg at least ? Cause honestly, I've been proxy 2-gated on ladder maybe twice, as for cannon rush, meh, it's not always cheese.
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
I consider cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates cheese but I know I should be able to scout them and defend properly, its just annoying trying to learn the game when you end up in these kind of situations instead
If that's what has happened to you.... that's like worst luck on the planet. I've played plenty of games but other than a couple ling and hydra allins from 2/3 hatches I haven't run into anything resembling cheese.
True. I have never been cannon rushed or proxy gated before and I've played quite a few games already (50+ ladder games & a lot of practice games). Anyway if you want to avoid this altogether there's nothing easier than joining sGs (search TL) and finding a few fellows to practice with. If you ask me, I haven't cheesed anyone before and have no such intentions in the next 2 years at least.
ahh plx gimme some candy too dudes played Z in sc2 decided to get into bw, so far have made 86 - 153 on iccup and hit c- for few games (xDDD yeahw). but still struggling a lot. but its really fun... have played until 4.30am quite a lot recently. sometimes its frustrating esp. if i play vs T mech turtle, but u know... play one cs match, get cool, start again...good stuff :D
On February 24 2012 22:45 Candadar wrote: SC2 is just too...easy. I'm not great at it, it just is so simplistic and just, meh. Don't like the direction it's taking.
Should I play on iCCUP or is there a better place to play? I remember playing in iccup back in the day, so I was wondering if that's still being used primarily or what.
iccup first. Then once you reach C+/B-, then start playing on the Korean Fish server.
I have yet to get to that point.
Just am a bit conflicted. Not sure I can get used to only 12(?) units at a time, especially if I go zerg or something. How do I work hotkeys in this scenario? I'm thinking of going either Z or T, can't decide.
You re-hotkey if necessary, it's about priority. Do you really need to have all the hatcheries hotkeyed? Can you get away with using F2-F4 to cover hatchery production? Do you really need to hotkey a bunch of lings that you're sending to die to random spidermines? I'm not sure what the 'proper' way to deal with this is for each race. Either way you will probably end up facing situations were the interface just won't be enough for you to do whatever you feel like no matter how fast and refined your mechanics are. That's what makes the game beautiful IMO. You're not just trying to outplay your opponent, you're trying to beat the game itself as well. Btw. You should go through liquipedia, there will probably a lot of knowledge on proper hotkey usage. I'm trying to figure this stuff out by myself
As zerg you can easily get away with not hotkeying all your units. For example, lets say youre using 4-0 as hatcheries, have your most micro-demanding units hotkeyed (mutas, maybe a group of lurkers, defilers, etc..). For the rest of the units you can use mouse only and go like box-a box-a small chunks of your army. If you choose to use f2-f3-f4 as 3 hatches, that frees up say 4 5 6 as hotkeys and you should be able to fit a decent sized army in 6 control groups. Note that re-hotkeying is pretty important as the game progresses, e.g use 4-0 for hatches until you take a 4th then start using f keys or whatever suits you better. Really, it comes down to what you feel most comfortable with. Jaedong doesnt use 8-9-0 and I think we can all agree that it worked pretty well for him, so you should definitely experiment with a bunch of setups.
Been thinking about this as well because I never played online in BW, instead played the campaigns over and over (always had terrible slow internet). Recently found the battle chest so looking forward to revisiting the awesomeness that is Brood War
On February 24 2012 08:29 OPKutty wrote: I guess I'm another person who discovered brood-war by playing SC2. Whenever I get bored of SC2 I'll just go and play some BW. I play Zerg in both games and the only thing I really miss going back to BW is covering the map in creep lol. Both games are fun to play, however laddering in BW seems to be a lot more srsbsns than in SC2.
Just spam hatcheries and sunkens everywhere to cover the map in creep! oldschool
On February 24 2012 23:09 Intact wrote: Well, after playing my first 6 BW games I've been chessed 6 times. Fun.....
What do you consider cheese? 9pool? Making units that shoot things and attacking with them? Making a bunker at your FE and killing it?
If they are your first 6 games you'd think you would understand them as semi-optimal strategies for that level since you have never played any other games. I don't know what is being done to you, but 'cheese' back, or just play cautious if it really is cheese. In my experience iccup these days has almost NO cheese. No one ever cannon rushes, 6pools, bbs's on ladder these days.
On February 24 2012 14:34 Saline wrote: Love the enthusiasm guys. BW is, in my opinion, the best game ever made. Once you get past the clunky and crappy interface for setting up games, it's a lot of fun.
With that in mind, it is a lot more competitive, simply because the only people that still play BW are the die-hard fans who have been around for years. We've followed the professional scene, we know all of the build orders, we know our tech trees cold and what units are good against what. We can tell what you're up to just by noticing a lack of a pylon at the proper timing, or the fact that you should have one more dragoon. It's tough! But it's totally worth it. Playing is great fun.
Well, there's plenty of new players actually. D ranks are definitely filled with people trying BW from SC2 right now. However, if you get iCCup it's usually because you want some competition and a real ladder, so it's always going to be a different class of player from totally casual games you might get in Bnet public realms. People get really hung up on the ladder score and record, but the best thing is to just ignore it and enjoy the actual games.
I consider cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates cheese but I know I should be able to scout them and defend properly, its just annoying trying to learn the game when you end up in these kind of situations instead
That's insane, its definitely just bad luck. There aren't that many cheesers on iccup, the ones that do are usually 9 pool, 2 hat lurker allin, 3 gate, 3 rax.
Finally getting the hang of hotkeys a little. For some reason BW is VERY picky about what key presses register. 1a2a3a4a5a tends to leave, e.g. groups 2 and 4 behind at my old location. I think it has something to do with how I'm clicking my mouse. Until I figure it out you can tell on my stream that I slowly go 1 a click 2 a click etc. Kind of annoying.
Beginning to slowly understand the game a little beyond marine medic. TvP is my main focus and my FD build is getting a little tighter. I must repeat my sentiment that speed vultures are amazzzzing.
I'm a very paranoid person. I'm most likely overreacting, but I like to be 100% sure before I do anything, you must understand.
I go to iCCUP's website, and on my NotScripts I see this:
Now I know thousands of people have used this website, so again, I'm most likely just overreacting over nothing. However, I don't like doing things to my computer that I'm unsure about is all. =/
On February 26 2012 11:34 AyameStarcraft wrote: Just a little update.
Finally getting the hang of hotkeys a little. For some reason BW is VERY picky about what key presses register. 1a2a3a4a5a tends to leave, e.g. groups 2 and 4 behind at my old location. I think it has something to do with how I'm clicking my mouse. Until I figure it out you can tell on my stream that I slowly go 1 a click 2 a click etc. Kind of annoying.
Beginning to slowly understand the game a little beyond marine medic. TvP is my main focus and my FD build is getting a little tighter. I must repeat my sentiment that speed vultures are amazzzzing.
GL HF all!
BW is unforgiving and expects your key touches to be immaculate.
But once you've mastered the mechanics, it is more responsive and precise than anything else.
hi I'm a (bad) sc2 player also caught by this thread and have a few questions: what is ICCUP? is it the official server? someone said "make as many friends as you can it helps find a game faster",what does this means? ladder isn't auto search function? can you play vs the world with 1 version only? how is the traffic and do you find opponents fast or is this game almost dead today?
I'm really attracted by the overall design and the crazy sounds and gameplay.
On February 27 2012 11:23 AGK wrote: hi I'm a (bad) sc2 player also caught by this thread and have a few questions: what is ICCUP? is it the official server? someone said "make as many friends as you can it helps find a game faster",what does this means? ladder isn't auto search function? can you play vs the world with 1 version only? how is the traffic and do you find opponents fast or is this game almost dead today?
I'm really attracted by the overall design and the crazy sounds and gameplay.
1. Iccup is a user run server, you need to install it, www.iccup.com.
2. Its easier to RE and find games of your level if you have friends.
3. Its like warcraft 3, you create a game with a title, and people join. Usually <Rank> <Map> <Other Parameters>, e.g D Fighting Spirit Come Protoss.
4. Everyone uses 1.16 and there has been no patches for years.
5. In the D ranks you will find games almost instantly if you can create games (needs port forwarding 6112-6119). If you join a clan like sGs you should also be able to find clanmates who would be willing to create games for you.
On February 26 2012 11:34 AyameStarcraft wrote: Just a little update.
Finally getting the hang of hotkeys a little. For some reason BW is VERY picky about what key presses register. 1a2a3a4a5a tends to leave, e.g. groups 2 and 4 behind at my old location. I think it has something to do with how I'm clicking my mouse. Until I figure it out you can tell on my stream that I slowly go 1 a click 2 a click etc. Kind of annoying.
Beginning to slowly understand the game a little beyond marine medic. TvP is my main focus and my FD build is getting a little tighter. I must repeat my sentiment that speed vultures are amazzzzing.
GL HF all!
BW is unforgiving and expects your key touches to be immaculate.
But once you've mastered the mechanics, it is more responsive and precise than anything else.
It could be down to a shitty keyboard.
Also I find team games and custom games to be much more fun on BW as well, so don't hesitate to try out the battle.net server as well. The downside is that in every game there are usually (blatant) hackers, but it comes with the territory.
On February 26 2012 11:34 AyameStarcraft wrote: Just a little update.
Finally getting the hang of hotkeys a little. For some reason BW is VERY picky about what key presses register. 1a2a3a4a5a tends to leave, e.g. groups 2 and 4 behind at my old location. I think it has something to do with how I'm clicking my mouse. Until I figure it out you can tell on my stream that I slowly go 1 a click 2 a click etc. Kind of annoying.
Beginning to slowly understand the game a little beyond marine medic. TvP is my main focus and my FD build is getting a little tighter. I must repeat my sentiment that speed vultures are amazzzzing.
GL HF all!
BW is unforgiving and expects your key touches to be immaculate.
But once you've mastered the mechanics, it is more responsive and precise than anything else.
It could be down to a shitty keyboard.
Most likely hes just gotten the keypresses and mouse-clicks in the wrong order, going 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a is not exactly easy (i did that in a split second lol but I practise spam it whenever a keyboard is in front of me, it drives a lot of people up the wall).
If it helps try using a PS/2 Keyboard (PS/2 doesn't require polling), gaming keyboards are actually the worst for this, they are cheap rubber-dome and have terrible ghosting. I remember using a Razer keyboard back in the day before I went -> Filco Majestouch -> TOPRE -> and finally settled on an IBM Model M clone, anyway the Razer Lycosa always ghosted. I would get a ton of missed keypresses even though I was 100% positive I did it right, a lot of times units would not build and I had to re-click factories, grrrr.
That or sometimes if your trying to go fast, you sometimes pick up bad muscle memory habits. I was practicing 0p9p8p, but I was missing the p on 9 so 0p98p and I could never figure out why my second expansion never had many probes. Had to relearn my muscle memory.
...or playing on extra latency- never had so much trouble ordering units to work or research to actually research than with so much latency.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
Sounds awesome. Hit me up on ICCUP tomorrow night. I'll be playing a lot this week. Don't worry about timezones either, I conform to KST despite living in the UK.
I've been playing with this same problem. My second group of marines always gets left behind in TvZ if I'm not careful to slow it down a bit. I've been told that, in BW, you can't press two keys at the same time or the second won't work. I think that because my keyboard uses black switches, the point where a key stops being registered is quite high, and I press "2" before "1" is fully released, causing the skip.
On February 27 2012 13:26 Sero wrote: I've been playing with this same problem. My second group of marines always gets left behind in TvZ if I'm not careful to slow it down a bit. I've been told that, in BW, you can't press two keys at the same time or the second won't work. I think that because my keyboard uses black switches, the point where a key stops being registered is quite high, and I press "2" before "1" is fully released, causing the skip.
For me buckling springs are the only true mechanical switches, they are full size keys but with the action of a scissor-switch (slim) keyboard and have ridiculous feedback.
Even if you don't have to bottom out cherry switches, you still do it anyway since its physically impossible to actuate without bottoming out at 150 apm. I guess this can actually be a problem with some games, as your key is still actuated during the release phase, while your other key is actuating on the way down. BW registers keyevents differently to SC2, such as the fact that you can't hold down a key to spam units, however it does work with ctrl groups so I can't see the issue there.
Buckling springs bottom-out at actuation point, so the keys only go down half way, and they give a really satisfying "clack!" like you just wacked a table with a ruler not clicky like cherries. Of course you can't help it if your mum doesn't like keyboard sounds echoing through the whole house.
Anyway I don't have any problems with macro chords or 1a2a3a. Although I didn't really have any problems with my majestouch either, except that the keycaps kept breaking and it cost a lot of money to replace.
I give you credit for deciding on Terran. It was a nightmare for me in SC1 trying to multitask so much, and don't even get me started on marine splitting vs lurkers, or TvP in general. That shit was infuriating.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I actually like it better. I thought, "oh hey, I don't have to build like 8 turrets everytime I see he is going mutas." Even then, good muta micro could tear down seemingly infinity marines and turrets. I still remember some games from Brood War like July vs Pheonix and tons of Jaedong games where they just won with mutas....it was pretty ridiculous.
Certainly alot more to worry about then just building a few turrets with no need to babysit, or just make a Thor or two.
I agree with what someone said earlier though about the builds, just work on one for each matchup to start out. Keep things simple. There are also a fuckton of micro maps out there if you wish to practice micro with specific units.
On February 27 2012 14:05 Enki wrote: I give you credit for deciding on Terran. It was a nightmare for me in SC1 trying to multitask so much, and don't even get me started on marine splitting vs lurkers, or TvP in general. That shit was infuriating.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I actually like it better. I thought, "oh hey, I don't have to build like 8 turrets everytime I see he is going mutas." Even then, good muta micro could tear down seemingly infinity marines and turrets. I still remember some games from Brood War like July vs Pheonix and tons of Jaedong games where they just won with mutas....it was pretty ridiculous.
Certainly alot more to worry about then just building a few turrets with no need to babysit, or just make a Thor or two.
I agree with what someone said earlier though about the builds, just work on one for each matchup to start out. Keep things simple. There are also a fuckton of micro maps out there if you wish to practice micro with specific units.
I much prefer facing against a good Muta user than a bad Lurker user, I dunno once you can do anti-muta micro mutas have ceased to be a problem for me. Especially once you have a lot of turrets down you are safe. SKTerran is only viable vs 2 hatch lurker if your Flash too.
Terran is amazing if you can get good, but it's also the hardmode race for beginners. I was never good enough with Terran to get out of D, myself. If you've got the patience though, give it a go. Nothing is as awesome as siege tanks.
I am having some pretty bad latency issues with ICCUP. I'm in Australia and my 'normal' /p is about 400, but occasionally it skyrockets to 1000+ particularly when I try to host a game. My internet isn't THAT bad, I'm just wondering if I'm simply too far away from the servers?
On February 27 2012 15:41 emjaytron wrote: I am having some pretty bad latency issues with ICCUP. I'm in Australia and my 'normal' /p is about 400, but occasionally it skyrockets to 1000+ particularly when I try to host a game. My internet isn't THAT bad, I'm just wondering if I'm simply too far away from the servers?
I'm from Melbourne, sometimes the latency is bad, but 90% of the time it ceases to be a problem.
Make sure you have lan latency working. If you are getting jitter change the latency setting to high or extra-high.
F10 - O - N - E - O, puts it into extra-high lat mode (or F10 - O - N - H - O for high lat). Being in Australia that setting is common, although these days I put it in high lat and just deal with the tiny jitter instead of extra-high because it allows faster response times.
I know about the high latency thing, but I don't understand why its preventing me hosting games? I have the ports for BW forwarded 6112-19. its really lame
On February 27 2012 15:49 emjaytron wrote: I know about the high latency thing, but I don't understand why its preventing me hosting games? I have the ports for BW forwarded 6112-19. its really lame
Strange, have you tried getting friends to join? If it says lan latency too high often it means that the port isn't forwarding properly (or the latency is actually too high, but not common). If people simply aren't joining on ladder, it might be because you've picked melee instead of "one on one" or something.
If you are creating a game and you can't get into the created game screen (comes up with another error), it might be you've picked a non-ladder map for "one on one". If you are playing melee you can pick any map however.
On February 27 2012 15:41 emjaytron wrote: I am having some pretty bad latency issues with ICCUP. I'm in Australia and my 'normal' /p is about 400, but occasionally it skyrockets to 1000+ particularly when I try to host a game. My internet isn't THAT bad, I'm just wondering if I'm simply too far away from the servers?
I'm from Melbourne, sometimes the latency is bad, but 90% of the time it ceases to be a problem.
Make sure you have lan latency working. If you are getting jitter change the latency setting to high or extra-high.
F10 - O - N - E - O, puts it into extra-high lat mode (or F10 - O - N - H - O for high lat). Being in Australia that setting is common, although these days I put it in high lat and just deal with the tiny jitter instead of extra-high because it allows faster response times.
Keep in mind that unlike SCII BW is P2P, so server ping is a rather arbitrary number for determining how much lag there will be. Two NZ guys could both have 600 ping and play each other with low latency just fine.
On February 27 2012 15:49 emjaytron wrote: I know about the high latency thing, but I don't understand why its preventing me hosting games? I have the ports for BW forwarded 6112-19. its really lame
Ahh that is another issue with high latency, where the game name gets glitched. It's not an issue with high latency per se, but it seems to happen more often for people with high ping (eg us in australia).
You can avoid the problem by /stats when you host a game. If it shows people who arn't actually there (usually people you just played, sometimes other names) then you need to host the game with a different name.
It seems we have all sorts of weird problems with lag. I also have a recurring problem where there is some IP incompatibility or something, where there is a group of us, but 2 people just can't get into the same game without massive lag, everyone else can join the game with either one of them and it works fine, but when those 2 are in the same game it becomes unplayable. Sometimes resetting the modem to force an ip switch solves it, but none of us have reliably dynamic IP anymore so we can't just change our IP at will.
man, how i miss being able to mech... containing opponents was my favorite style of play im also considering going back to bw just so i can escape the bs TvP metagame that is sc2, where tanks are so pathetic it saddens my soul.
I actually liked it when tosses broke out of my contains, they were so good at finding weaknesses in my set-up and strategically holding out until they had enough to break it. Being wrecked by brilliant engagements made me respect my opponent instead of hating him for being able to do 1-a and demolishing an elaborate contain with a ton of tanks.
This alone is mostly why I agree with the "you can lose 200 games and still keep going" post.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
On February 27 2012 23:34 a5mod wrote: why play bw sc2 is better
you have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyway, to OP, yeah terran is the right choice for you. The way we play Terran comes from this 4 guys namely "Boxer" "Nada" "Iloveoov" and "Flash". so find these guys replay or Vod and start practicing!!
On February 27 2012 22:38 Z-BosoN wrote: man, how i miss being able to mech... containing opponents was my favorite style of play im also considering going back to bw just so i can escape the bs TvP metagame that is sc2, where tanks are so pathetic it saddens my soul.
I actually liked it when tosses broke out of my contains, they were so good at finding weaknesses in my set-up and strategically holding out until they had enough to break it. Being wrecked by brilliant engagements made me respect my opponent instead of hating him for being able to do 1-a and demolishing an elaborate contain with a ton of tanks.
This alone is mostly why I agree with the "you can lose 200 games and still keep going" post.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
No no I mean why do the marines do the opposite that mutas do?
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
No no I mean why do the marines do the opposite that mutas do?
Marines have slightly longer range than mutas, so you want to lure the mutas in far enough to get some shots off without the mutas actually firing due to you backing off just enough.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
No no I mean why do the marines do the opposite that mutas do?
Marines have slightly longer range than mutas, so you want to lure the mutas in far enough to get some shots off without the mutas actually firing due to you backing off just enough.
I think the more important aspect of dancing marines is making opponents mutas misfire or fly in too deep by making it hard to judge distance and timing of the engagement. If done properly it will keep the marines in formation too.
Edit: Annex of self-depreciation. I am just saying this from the perspective of a useless C- zerg. Take it as you will. I'm sure sooner or later a terran will pop in and tell it how it be.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
No no I mean why do the marines do the opposite that mutas do?
Marines have slightly longer range than mutas, so you want to lure the mutas in far enough to get some shots off without the mutas actually firing due to you backing off just enough.
I think the more important aspect of dancing marines is making opponents mutas misfire or fly in too deep by making it hard to judge distance and timing of the engagement. If done properly it will keep the marines in formation too.
Edit: Annex of self-depreciation. I am just saying this from the perspective of a useless C- zerg. Take it as you will. I'm sure sooner or later a terran will pop in and tell it how it be.
From my perspective, the idea behind this is that it creates a "all my marines will shoot one of your mutas down or you won't get to attack my marines at all" situation. I watched a few fpvods of pros back when muta harass gave me a lot of trouble (it still does now that I think of it) and you can see they clump the marines together, move forward as the muta stack does, then target fire one of the mutas. When it's done correctly you can pick off a muta everytime (easier if you went for a fast +1 attack upgrade on your marines) and then it becomes quite a bad trade for the zerg. On the other hand if you simply target a muta and let your marines chase it or worse if you attack move, then your marines will get picked off 1,2 or 3 at a time without doing much damage.
gl man ! remember that probably mastering terran is like going for D+ with it while you'd be able to do a C/C- with exactly any other race in the same time ( the reason is that maybe beside an scv every single terran unit has it's own special abilities ). But even though in my opinion it's going to be really rewarding afterwards .
Playing BW after SC2 is a huge ego-deflater. Most of my SC2 friends learned the hard way. Welcome to the best and most balanced (and unforgiving) game in the world. Except for life.
On February 28 2012 06:10 ticklishmusic wrote: Playing BW after SC2 is a huge ego-deflater. Most of my SC2 friends learned the hard way. Welcome to the best and most balanced (and unforgiving) game in the world. Except for life.
I'm amazed at this community. Unlike the SC2 community everyone here is so encouraging and supportive. Damn it I wish I discovered this game in 1998 instead of in 2010 via World of Warcraft telling me about Starcraft 2. So I would have only been 5 years old but think of where I could be. Maybe B+ by now xD (sarcasm, or then again perhaps not?)
Gonna check out some games on the nevake youtube channel. Flash, iloveoov etc. Hopefully I will learn a thing or two.
On February 28 2012 09:22 AyameStarcraft wrote: Hi guys.
I'm amazed at this community. Unlike the SC2 community everyone here is so encouraging and supportive. Damn it I wish I discovered this game in 1998 instead of in 2010 via World of Warcraft telling me about Starcraft 2. So I would have only been 5 years old but think of where I could be. Maybe B+ by now xD (sarcasm, or then again perhaps not?)
Gonna check out some games on the nevake youtube channel. Flash, iloveoov etc. Hopefully I will learn a thing or two.
Watching SC doesn't make you good, but it does make you more interested in the game. I've seen tons of games but I'm still arguably the worst person on TL.net. Never give up, and I agree that the BW community's more open than the SC2 one for me.
Ive played 2 games in broodwar so far. I won one and lost another. So far I think it is much more fun then sc2. Also losing is much less frustrating. Games are longer and more happens.
Hoooooooooooly shit. after being an sc2 player my whole career, 2v2 BW is such an unbelievable step up in game quality. 1v1 I still probably enjoy sc2 more since I am more competetive and know builds better, but I had pretty much given up on 2v2..... until now.
bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
Tempted to do that. But then I realize that I have school.
Not an issue. Filco Majestouch. Also all my 1a2a3a habits are from sc2 so it is most likely me clicking too early or something like what a couple others have said.
Ok little update.
Mutas flat out kill me. So I'm avoiding TvZ until I can actually get a win vs protoss which is the only match up I have any idea of what I'm doing. I'm getting used to where o is on the keyboard. Having a lot less derp moments with my tanks not going in to siege mode. if there are any protoss reading this ( I really don't care your skill level You could be A+ for all I care) and fancy playing 10-20 games in a row then msg me please.
Does it have full NKey Rollover though? Not all majestouch's have it (plus you need to use PS/2). Probably not likely the issue anyway.
I am happy to help you practise against Protoss. I used to be random anyway haha. I have pretty good muta micro too from playing muta micro maps with friends and religiously doing 2 hatch muta builds, so I can help you with that too I am currently helping a bunch of SC2 newbies with BW so I could probably hook you up with one of them.
Main thing newbies don't do is focus fire on the mutas, and also understanding the "dance" (do the opposite of what the mutas do), and SC2 players are also in the mindset that 1 turret can hold off an entire muta flock, turrets feel like they do about 10% of what they do in SC2 and mutas are a lot stronger at the same time. You also need to cluster your turrets with good positioning so that mutas can't knock em down 1 by 1, not spread them out like you do in SC2.
But yeah best to learn one matchup at a time.
I don't understand this dance. What's the purpose behind it?
To minimize the damage to your mutas and to keep them stacked.
No no I mean why do the marines do the opposite that mutas do?
Marines have slightly longer range than mutas, so you want to lure the mutas in far enough to get some shots off without the mutas actually firing due to you backing off just enough.
I think the more important aspect of dancing marines is making opponents mutas misfire or fly in too deep by making it hard to judge distance and timing of the engagement. If done properly it will keep the marines in formation too.
Edit: Annex of self-depreciation. I am just saying this from the perspective of a useless C- zerg. Take it as you will. I'm sure sooner or later a terran will pop in and tell it how it be.
From my perspective, the idea behind this is that it creates a "all my marines will shoot one of your mutas down or you won't get to attack my marines at all" situation. I watched a few fpvods of pros back when muta harass gave me a lot of trouble (it still does now that I think of it) and you can see they clump the marines together, move forward as the muta stack does, then target fire one of the mutas. When it's done correctly you can pick off a muta everytime (easier if you went for a fast +1 attack upgrade on your marines) and then it becomes quite a bad trade for the zerg. On the other hand if you simply target a muta and let your marines chase it or worse if you attack move, then your marines will get picked off 1,2 or 3 at a time without doing much damage.
Finally someone got it! :D
Yeah basically you wanna be target firing and killing mutas one at a time, the best way to do it is to do the opposite of what the muta clump does. Consistently thinning the muta numbers is the most efficient way.
Muta moves away, you move away.
Muta close in, you [stim] close in [and target fire a muta]. If you do it right you will kill a muta every time.
This either will make him too afraid to engage, and you can pressure him much more easily, or he will just keep losing mutas until there is none left.
Poster before was half-right, sometimes you can bait them in too deep and you can pick off 2 or 3 at once.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
Although I would really appreciate some free coaching! :D
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
I've added you I don't mind being crushed honestly. By playing players much better than you, sure you won't win for a long time but when you then go to play players at your rank you'll find they are suddenly much easier to deal with. At least that's somewhat true I think.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
Dost thou bite thy thumb at me sir?
I forgot to bring my mouse to college though :/
get one. I'm pretty sure that you could masqurade as a broke CS student and ask ur campus IT for a mouse (Say it's for a project :D)
Actually considering switching to Protoss. Terran is just really hard and as I'm trying to use this as an escape from SC2 I'd rather not lose 99% of the time due to having really crappy mechanics. We'll see how things go.
On February 28 2012 13:37 AyameStarcraft wrote: Hmm,
Actually considering switching to Protoss. Terran is just really hard and as I'm trying to use this as an escape from SC2 I'd rather not lose 99% of the time due to having really crappy mechanics. We'll see how things go.
Protoss is arguably the most random of the races. Scarabs that don't explode, goons with AI IQ of about -40... yeah.
Yeah, but the mice at my school suck. I want my old wireless logitech mini-- I played BW for 4 years with it! They don't even give us MS Office for free, and tuition here is obscene (thank goodness for scholarships)
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
Play with equally nooby people and try to reach the lategame. Lategame is super fun between friends (who are noobs) cause you're all just all over the place. :D
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
I saw you today at op teamliquid ! :D
will you try ISL3 ?
Hehe I think I speak for everyone when I say that this would be pretty cool.
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
Noooo, don't give up now
Btw have you kept up with proleague? There are tonnes of people that don't play but love watching. It might renew your interest in the game and you can come back later.
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
I'd rather you switch to toss then stop playing completely .
On February 28 2012 09:22 AyameStarcraft wrote: Hi guys.
I'm amazed at this community. Unlike the SC2 community everyone here is so encouraging and supportive. Damn it I wish I discovered this game in 1998 instead of in 2010 via World of Warcraft telling me about Starcraft 2. So I would have only been 5 years old but think of where I could be. Maybe B+ by now xD (sarcasm, or then again perhaps not?)
Gonna check out some games on the nevake youtube channel. Flash, iloveoov etc. Hopefully I will learn a thing or two.
Watching SC doesn't make you good, but it does make you more interested in the game. I've seen tons of games but I'm still arguably the worst person on TL.net. Never give up, and I agree that the BW community's more open than the SC2 one for me.
Mmmm. I don't know if I agree with that if you watch streams to get better I think you can get better. I've learned a lot/picked up a lot of little tricks and ideas from greater players than I. I mean nothing beats playing, but if just keep a stream on while doing papers or work or whatever, it can't hurt.
I third? (second second?) the idea that BW community is smaller but much more encouraging and accepting.
Ah, i was thinking of playing bw aswell, i used to play it along while, but i dont think i cba switching for a game where when i go online i know people, to being all alone again .
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
Don't give up now, persevere! I'm a mere d- player, but the challenge and the difficulty of bw is one of the main things that keep me coming back to play the game.
Also, that feeling when you first string together a few wins is amazing. My first win came from a zvt after like a few dozen losses. I practiced just one build for each matchups like mad just to get the hang of things. It kind of paid off since I got my first win with 3 hatch muta, but I did get stumped when I saw a gateway first in a zvp since I did not know much outside of 3 hatch spire. I really do believe that after the initial stage, the game keeps on getting better for us newbies. Once you get a little bit more confidence you can try out more builds, more maps and etc etc. Plus the community really does know how to take care of new comers and guide them to graduation from d-. One day, I too hope to escape d- like those before me.
there's a lot of good ums for bw if you feel that ladder is just too hard. some of my favorites are heaven's final hour, the 5v3 and 6v2 cpu ones, spec forces, and various kinds of defense games.
If somebody is willing to play for fun with a D- player, please pm me. I am too bad even for the bottom of the ladder, but I have no intention playing versus AI
Edit: You know what. My arm hurts too much, can't macro a shit, I give up Though I did win once. Felt like awesome. But damn, macroing is not for me.
On February 29 2012 00:25 Hemula wrote: If somebody is willing to play for fun with a D- player, please pm me. I am too bad even for the bottom of the ladder, but I have no intention playing versus AI
Edit: You know what. My arm hurts too much, can't macro a shit, I give up Though I did win once. Felt like awesome. But damn, macroing is not for me.
You can try downloading some scripted AI's. There are some good non-cheating ones which should offer a decent challenge, or at least decent practice. Sometimes its hard to figure out how to get them to work, but I recommend you give it a go. The Brood War AI project has a good selection of different AI's with many different build orders for all races.
I'm a SC2 player who never played BW. I tried to play some Starcraft 64 a few weeks ago.... God, that was the most frustrating experience in my life, it was so hard to just do some basic stuff (selecting units, basic orders). I guess it's much "easier" to play on PC, though
On February 29 2012 03:19 SolidMustard wrote: I'm a SC2 player who never played BW. I tried to play some Starcraft 64 a few weeks ago.... God, that was the most frustrating experience in my life, it was so hard to just do some basic stuff (selecting units, basic orders). I guess it's much "easier" to play on PC, though
OH mY God SC 64 IS the worst game i've ever played..no Maybes or probably's here. It was so awfully horrible.
On another note.. BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
I play sc2 everyday, and i love playing sc2, but there's always a special spot in my heart for the game i spent 10 years trying to be mediocre at :O
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
Whoa whoa whoa.. you telling me that you ask for 9 pages of support, play just a few hours, and then quit? AWE HELL NAHHHH!!!!
On February 29 2012 05:32 firehand101 wrote: I have recent been in a position like yours...i am 0-18, but i will get my first win one day!
That will be the day our paths cross, lol.
@OP I went through the same. It's easy to get discouraged if you expect something the game can't give you. When you change your view of the game and accept it as it is, you can profit from playing more than you could ever imagine while having tons of fun. I came back after a while and now I know for sure I'm never leaving again. It's The Boy And His Game all over again.
On February 28 2012 17:23 AyameStarcraft wrote: I'm leaning on the edge of not playing this.
I have a sudden newfound respect for professional players of this game but this game is really hard. I guess I'm going to be bucking the trend here but I just find myself discouraged and unwilling to play. I'll think about it over night.
Well that would be too bad. I saw you play on your stream a little bit. The way you hop back and forth between your buildings, you're significantly faster than me so I think you should be able to get some wins. Maybe it's a familiarity thing, maybe another race would be better. And maybe you might want to take a break from ladder and try some fun ums or whatever. Find the fun in BW , because the drive to improve will kick in anways.
This is kind of off-topic but since I'm new to the scene will this team league (spl) be the very last live sc BW event in korea? I'm sure there will still be online tourneys here and there but I have been enjoying this team league to a great extent. Much more then I personally get from most sc2. I don't want it to end when I'm just getting started
Try going mech in TvZ. Imo, at lower levels, TvZ mech is THE easiest matchup to play, even easier than PvT is (which I think most people would argue at D level is easiest, it's definitely the first MU I learned).
when I played you yesterday I thought your macro was way better than expected. your builds were solid and your timings were good and you seemed like someone who would improve fast. but you gotta realize that the skill ceiling is much, much higher than in sc2,because of the constant babysitting your units demand of you. some of us have played this game and honed our abilities to understand how to actually make our units behave in a way that reflects how we actually want them to act for thousands of hours, you can't expect to be the bw equivalent of platinum-master without at least putting in several hundred.
I'd love to follow BW more and maybe play some. But I'm finding the language barrier really difficult. All VoDs I get my hands on are casted in Korean. Does anyone know of anyone that does English casts of pro games? Thanks.
On February 29 2012 10:21 Noro wrote: I'd love to follow BW more and maybe play some. But I'm finding the language barrier really difficult. All VoDs I get my hands on are casted in Korean. Does anyone know of anyone that does English casts of pro games? Thanks.
Look for Day[9] dailies of BW
TSL2 vods
Tastosis casts of BW on WCG. (Jaedong FPVods, etc)
Got the game setup and ready to go on ICCup just now. If anyone wants to play let me know. I've never really played before and would like to give it a shot (and it runs a lot better on my computer than SC2 does!). I just need to pick a race and look at some strats / vods. I do have a question though: Is BroodWar AI recommended? Seeing as I might not find a lot of people to play against, I'm thinking this might be the way to go for now.
On February 29 2012 10:21 Noro wrote: I'd love to follow BW more and maybe play some. But I'm finding the language barrier really difficult. All VoDs I get my hands on are casted in Korean. Does anyone know of anyone that does English casts of pro games? Thanks.
Look for Day[9] dailies of BW
TSL2 vods
Tastosis casts of BW on WCG. (Jaedong FPVods, etc)
On February 29 2012 09:36 Liquid`Drone wrote: when I played you yesterday I thought your macro was way better than expected. your builds were solid and your timings were good and you seemed like someone who would improve fast. but you gotta realize that the skill ceiling is much, much higher than in sc2,because of the constant babysitting your units demand of you. some of us have played this game and honed our abilities to understand how to actually make our units behave in a way that reflects how we actually want them to act for thousands of hours, you can't expect to be the bw equivalent of platinum-master without at least putting in several hundred.
Wow encouragement from Liquid`Drone :o You pretty much have to play now.
On February 29 2012 11:02 Steeveholt wrote: Sorry for hijacking your thread but:
Got the game setup and ready to go on ICCup just now. If anyone wants to play let me know. I've never really played before and would like to give it a shot (and it runs a lot better on my computer than SC2 does!). I just need to pick a race and look at some strats / vods. I do have a question though: Is BroodWar AI recommended? Seeing as I might not find a lot of people to play against, I'm thinking this might be the way to go for now.
On February 29 2012 11:02 Steeveholt wrote: Sorry for hijacking your thread but:
Got the game setup and ready to go on ICCup just now. If anyone wants to play let me know. I've never really played before and would like to give it a shot (and it runs a lot better on my computer than SC2 does!). I just need to pick a race and look at some strats / vods. I do have a question though: Is BroodWar AI recommended? Seeing as I might not find a lot of people to play against, I'm thinking this might be the way to go for now.
Thoughts? ICCup name: Steeveholt
I'm happy to practise with you but I seem to have a really bad record of getting newbies to continue playing starcraft
No idea why, I try and go easy and go for long games (e.g play standard, never attack, go for split map, minimal defenses [ok i habitually mine/wall the map and make a million turrets but hey]), try not to say too much but help them more than I would even in my own clan when they ask questions and stuff, and they just quit the next day, I don't know what I'm doing wrong
That said if you want to have a game or 20 games add me Slugger[wOk] and I'm happy to practise with you as many times as you like and answer any of your questions.
On February 29 2012 11:02 Steeveholt wrote: Sorry for hijacking your thread but:
Got the game setup and ready to go on ICCup just now. If anyone wants to play let me know. I've never really played before and would like to give it a shot (and it runs a lot better on my computer than SC2 does!). I just need to pick a race and look at some strats / vods. I do have a question though: Is BroodWar AI recommended? Seeing as I might not find a lot of people to play against, I'm thinking this might be the way to go for now.
Thoughts? ICCup name: Steeveholt
I'm happy to practise with you but I seem to have a really bad record of getting newbies to continue playing starcraft
No idea why, I try and go easy and go for long games (e.g play standard, never attack, go for split map, minimal defenses [ok i habitually mine/wall the map and make a million turrets but hey]), try not to say too much but help them more than I would even in my own clan when they ask questions and stuff, and they just quit the next day, I don't know what I'm doing wrong
That said if you want to have a game or 20 games add me Slugger[wOk] and I'm happy to practise with you as many times as you like and answer any of your questions.
Added you! Been reading Liquipedia but could definitely use some of your time whenever you feel like it! Coming from the really "controlled" and organized BNet 2.0 (however flawed it may be) makes ICCup a bit of a challenge of its own on top of learning the game as well. So many maps... and not being able to see them at all unless you scout makes knowing where to expand a real pain in the ass! I'll be online, my username is Steeveholt.
Thanks!
oh and funny how you mention psyonic_reaver as I obs'd one of his game an hour ago, and had a chat with someone from your clan (I'm assuming as he also had [wOk] in his name). Small community!
This is why the top players in BW are so dominant, and why Flash is pretty much God. Skill is so much more important than luck in BW.
Yeah, you can learn how to micro everything, but dud scarab forever though. So many games that I could've (and I feel I should've) won easily, but noooo dud scarabs... still remember that one game where I could've killed 22 workers with a single scarab but it dudded. T_T
I am quite bitter about dud scarabs as you can see. The one thing that makes toss annoying imo.
Playing micro games and such are a lot more useful in BW than in SC2 too.
Btw: Any suggestions how to set control groups? I have quite bad habbit (bad for BW) of setting hatcheries on 1-5 keys (and using f1-f4 for army) in sc2. Ideas how to make me "transition out" of this situation?
I guess I should add this. My computer can't handle sc2 so the only way to really play starcraft is to play brood war. I have been playing a lot recently. I was terrified of playing on the ladder for months really. I off and on played vs the computer but only just recently started playing ladder games. A human opponent is just totally different. I can spend my money and macro somewhat decently well vs a computer, but the second I have to defend probe harass or chase down a scout or any tyle of unit control everything falls to bits for me :/.
The game is really hard. I use one finger on both hands to type so my hand has crappy dexterity. I have a ton of free time and want to get quite good. Also I need to beat my friend who defeated me something like 30 to nothing.
yes bind ur hatches on 5-0 and army on 1-4 :-), works for mondragon, works for most pros... u can check out their hotkeyin by watching replays and pressing the buttons , u can see their bindings in some replays. (if this is wrong, gimme a real bash pls :-D)
And what about locations binding? Pros are not using that to center on many producing facilities? Also how to rally many buildings to one spot quickly? Select, click on minimap, select, click on minimap? Takes quite lots of time with 8 or more producing facilities.
As zerg I don't really know much about it, but I think it's done by marking both your production location and your desired rallypoint via SHIFT-F-Key. So, for example, bind the place where all your gateways are to F2 and the location where you're rallypoint should go to F3. Then you go F2, select first gateway, F3 set rallypoint. Repeat this for all your gateways.
On February 29 2012 20:52 floi wrote: As zerg I don't really know much about it, but I think it's done by marking both your production location and your desired rallypoint via SHIFT-F-Key. So, for example, bind the place where all your gateways are to F2 and the location where you're rallypoint should go to F3. Then you go F2, select first gateway, F3 set rallypoint. Repeat this for all your gateways.
This is correct, although some high level players keybind their gates or use minimap.
Takes a bit of practise but I learned how to do it medium-fast within a month, I only ever practised during games as well.
You just gotta force yourself. I was losing games at first but I picked it up eventually, and now my timing attacks are much better.
That said, some pros will keybind CC's initially, and then eventually have CC's on F-Keys and facts on hotkeys so they can 4v5v6v7v8t9t0t. The problem with that is 1 rallying is harder past 7 facts, I can't make workers during intense situations (really important because i will then always have more workers than my opponent if I keep him busy). Also I like to keybind my whole army so I have much better control lategame.
I don't really recommend this topic, it's before Forge FE style and isn't really helpful, as the building placement is no longer relevant. I think he's looking for things like "gateway on top of forge is perfectly tight, no units can fit through, but forge on top of gateway means units like lings and even zealots can fit." Same with rax over depot means units like zealots can slip through, but rax under depot means they can't. Pylons never can create a tight wall unless against a barrier like a wall (part of the map terrain that is, not any building).
i remember my first multiplayer game in bw. i was just chilling/making scv's. then a probe built a pylon behind my mineral line. first i didnt understand why he is doing it. with cannons warping in i couldnt even kill one of them. after that i played big game hunters as a noob most of the time. fun times :D
I don't really recommend this topic, it's before Forge FE style and isn't really helpful, as the building placement is no longer relevant. I think he's looking for things like "gateway on top of forge is perfectly tight, no units can fit through, but forge on top of gateway means units like lings and even zealots can fit." Same with rax over depot means units like zealots can slip through, but rax under depot means they can't. Pylons never can create a tight wall unless against a barrier like a wall (part of the map terrain that is, not any building).
I don't think he's talking about sim city, but he's being so vague who knows.
If by "they" he means high templar, which can happen if you place your gateways in a really stupid way, he just needs to not cut off units exits with badly placed gateways... It's hard to describe in words, but if you have two gateways side by side, then one above and one below, but they're in the middle of the two aforementioned gateways, then units can get stuck. If you manner your gateways with a pylon prison, zealots are small enough to get thru but goons aren't so don't manner your gateways...
Best way to see is just to go in single player, "operation cwal" "show me the money" etc and test it. It's fairly intuitive if you don't have really awkward placement.
On March 01 2012 09:10 Isualin wrote: i remember my first multiplayer game in bw. i was just chilling/making scv's. then a probe built a pylon behind my mineral line. first i didnt understand why he is doing it. with cannons warping in i couldnt even kill one of them. after that i played big game hunters as a noob most of the time. fun times :D
I played UMS maps before I played melee games. The occasional Fastest here and there. In hind sight, I really wish I played more 1v1s back then.
I don't really recommend this topic, it's before Forge FE style and isn't really helpful, as the building placement is no longer relevant. I think he's looking for things like "gateway on top of forge is perfectly tight, no units can fit through, but forge on top of gateway means units like lings and even zealots can fit." Same with rax over depot means units like zealots can slip through, but rax under depot means they can't. Pylons never can create a tight wall unless against a barrier like a wall (part of the map terrain that is, not any building).
I don't think he's talking about sim city, but he's being so vague who knows.
If by "they" he means high templar, which can happen if you place your gateways in a really stupid way, he just needs to not cut off units exits with badly placed gateways... It's hard to describe in words, but if you have two gateways side by side, then one above and one below, but they're in the middle of the two aforementioned gateways, then units can get stuck. If you manner your gateways with a pylon prison, zealots are small enough to get thru but goons aren't so don't manner your gateways...
Best way to see is just to go in single player, "operation cwal" "show me the money" etc and test it. It's fairly intuitive if you don't have really awkward placement.
Oh, maybe not, I guess since it says "unit producing." I was thinking he overall just meant what units can get through where. Other than that... building placement isn't super important, especially since pylons are so much more hearty. Just make a line of them and like groups of gateways on each side .
On March 01 2012 10:22 pbjsandwich wrote: oh sorry i should've been more clear
it's sim city rules in terms of macro
my bases are just a mess and i'm just not exactly sure how to place them because i'm so afraid of trapping my units lol
I used to do the line thing, but I found the best way was start with a pylon in the middle, surround it with gateways, becuase I found that macroing left to right is easier than up down.
So you put the pylon down, and then the first gateway should be directly underneath, so the pylon would be at the 12 oclock position on the gateway (center top). The next gate would go to the left of the first gate, and then the next one to the right of the first gate. The 4th one would be directly right of the pylon above the right gateway with no spacing, then do the same for the left one. So you basically fit 5 gateways around the one pylon.
Wouldn't this cause an Artosis pylon problem you might say? No because you should be spacing your pylons evenly so that you have this huge line across the bottom, then the gaps between the pylons are perfect filled with gateways, and then you have gateways in a line above that if you have to. So basically you have 3 rows of perfectly lined gateways horizontally and all the gateways except the very left and very right should be double powered.
Hard to explain without a screenshot, ill see what I can do when I get home. But one thing is that buildings can be sandwiched more than in SC2, as units have a better ability to "get out" once produced and won't freeze in production at 100%. Of course there is a limit to this as well, just not as constrained as SC2.
On March 01 2012 10:25 pbjsandwich wrote: oh so there aren't really any set rules i just have to play around with it?
EDIT: i'd just like to know like how many gateways/pylons i can cram on 1 screen w/o blocking anyone
You mean making it so that the exit is blocked? It's two matrix squares (the length of a pylon) before anything is blocked. If you surround a building on all sides by more than 3 squares the unit won't spawn. So if you have 3x3 gateways the middle one will have its exit blocked.
Horang2 likes to build his gateways in groups of 6... a row of 2x3. It's pretty easy to click back to, but you have to have the presence of mind to build that pylon in the right spot to support the second row without blocking where you're gonna put the gateways.
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
I play both games casually and I must say it's a little exaggerated. D- is gold, D is low plat, D+ high plat low diam. C- mid/high diamond, something like that.
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
I play both games casually and I must say it's a little exaggerated. D- is gold, D is low plat, D+ high plat low diam. C- mid/high diamond, something like that.
I'm mid masters sc2 and only D on ICCup
EDIT: My point being skill does not directly translate.
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
I play both games casually and I must say it's a little exaggerated. D- is gold, D is low plat, D+ high plat low diam. C- mid/high diamond, something like that.
cheesing maybe, a solid D+ player can be masters, i know a lot of players that couldnt even mantain c- and are high masters
On March 02 2012 09:23 Ksquared wrote: I have this game. Is it really worth it to start playing it now? Even a person who is only in gold league in SC2?
Well that depends what you mean by "worth". It's good fun, for sure. And if you like the RTS genre you should like BW. It will be hard to stay above D if you don't play a lot. But, atleast for me, the joining a game and seeing the countdown still makes me just smile after 2000 games played!
On March 02 2012 09:47 emjaytron wrote: Is a one factory expand supposed to be able to beat 2fact one base? i keep dying to barracks floating over my high ground spotting for tanks
2 Fact tank/gol is a really silly TvT build as it practically loses to everything (unless they also build a starport). Also wondering how do they get the rax floated to your base so fast, do they do the modern proxy rax float? Anyway the build is really prevalent in D for some reason.
Siege mode is ridiculously cost effective if they are running into you un-sieged (Tanks have less health than goons), you should just make sure you get a good siege positioning early on (don't siege high ground but you should siege just behind or in front of the nat bridge once you have 2-3 tanks) and float your rax in front, they will just move up to your base and just try and do a contain. Worst thing to do at this point is try and break it or expand.
Ignore it and just get a starport and drop his base with vultures and mines, keep building more facts and continue to drop his base till he either loses or gets the picture, his contain will be really weak at this point because he hasn't' been reinforcing his contain due to drops. So once you have a big enough army you can bulldog his contain by dropping vultures/gols onto his sieged tanks and a-moving tanks and gols. At this point you should get your third and also push out as much as possible and see if you get a lucky break at killing his nat/3rd. If not don't worry, just mine the map and turret up, until you get enough dropships that you can rip apart his main in a single drop.
Conversely, I want to point out skill in BW does not translate to skill in SC2.
I was C+ my last two seasons on iccup, venturing into B- at the end of several longer winstreaks. It took me probably 3+ years of playing and practice to get there. Now, I'm by no means a definitive case as I've had friends who got to A(-) or never got out of D in the same period of time, but the point is BW is HARD. On the other hand, I've heard Huk was B rank and he's like one of the best foreign players in the world (then again, there's a huge gap between barely B- and B...)
I played SC2 and now I'm low-masters. Well, maybe I'd be a little higher if I played more than 3 or 4 games a week. But yeah.
BW is just a game. If you practice, you will get better. Don't get scared off.
On March 02 2012 09:47 emjaytron wrote: Is a one factory expand supposed to be able to beat 2fact one base? i keep dying to barracks floating over my high ground spotting for tanks
The beauty of BW lies in the struggle to overcome build order loss. Unlike SC2, a game isn't decided by the type of openings but rather on who possess the better execution. A good example is this game:
On March 02 2012 09:47 emjaytron wrote: Is a one factory expand supposed to be able to beat 2fact one base? i keep dying to barracks floating over my high ground spotting for tanks
Thing is 1 fact seige beats 2 fact seige. Probably the only thing 2 fact siege beats is 14cc and maybe a badly executed 1 rax FE where siege mode comes really late. You could even get away with an FD if they don't push before siege.
I think the reason its so popular is that D rankers will panic against the contain, and the aggressor just gets 4 bases really fast, while the defender either tries to break out and lose his army, or sit there until he dies.
Bw is awesome, I played ages ago but wouldn't go back to it, I'm too old (near 30) and my hands are too slow for it ... xD And I don't feel too confortable in losing non-stop, but you seem like you are up to the challenge so GL HFq
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
I play both games casually and I must say it's a little exaggerated. D- is gold, D is low plat, D+ high plat low diam. C- mid/high diamond, something like that.
I'm mid masters sc2 and only D on ICCup
EDIT: My point being skill does not directly translate.
Indeed, cause after not playing BW for 4 years and being barely C- before, I managed to get back to D+/C- by playing only a few games here and there. At the same time, I couldn't maintain myself in diamond even while playing quite often.
On February 28 2012 10:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: bw is so fun I will prolly be playing some next couple weeks. add tot)eriador( on iccup and msg me for some games. I will beat you but we can watch the replays together afterwards and I will tell you stuff to focus on.
On March 02 2012 22:05 KillAudio wrote: Is there a section/link on how to setup an account and play ladder games? Thinking of switching to BW since my shitty laptop can't handle SC2.
edit: never played BW in my entire life, so sorry for the stupid question. >_<
On March 02 2012 22:05 KillAudio wrote: Is there a section/link on how to setup an account and play ladder games? Thinking of switching to BW since my shitty laptop can't handle SC2.
edit: never played BW in my entire life, so sorry for the stupid question. >_<
So I'm thinking of actually starting [I was going to after I get dia, but I somehow lost my whole game plan in SC2 so I might as well write up my BW game plan too, to practice or so lol idk]
I'm mainly playing against the computer (winning, but they just do some weird delayed 1 base all-ins usually against me. I actually played a long TvP against one of the custom ai's or whatever once though....)
So I've been mainly practicing TvZ because it's "closest" to TvZ in SC2 [only problem in TvZ against the computer is that they make hydra lurk... ._.]
I want to make sure my game plan is ok at least
TvZ: 1rax -> academy+gas -> +2 rax -> (do I put ebay around here?) -> factory -> 2nd gas+machine shop (?) [tanks]-> starport -> sci facility&addon -> (dropship -> sci vessel?) @3 tanks, vessel: push while making 3rd [funny enough, the computer pushes around this time too >_>] add more factories+barracks while taking more bases [I guess I shouldn't worry about late mechanic -- is that even used still? Not sure]
TvP: rax+gas (11,12) -> factory -> vulture -> [do I put ebay/academy around here?] -> machine shop (research mines -> seige -> speed?) -> expand when able (around getting mines), +2 more factories (techlab, techlab, noaddon) -> armory -> I guess a 3rd around here? -> starport?+more factories?
TvT: rax+gas (11,12) -> factory -> vulture -> [do I put ebay/academy around here?] -> machine shop (research mines -> seige -> speed?) -> expand when able (around getting mines), --- not sure what to do here. I guess I should just go into 3fact + armory so I can handle wraiths? idk
On March 03 2012 09:46 zhurai wrote: So I'm thinking of actually starting [I was going to after I get dia, but I somehow lost my whole game plan in SC2 so I might as well write up my BW game plan too, to practice or so lol idk]
I'm mainly playing against the computer (winning, but they just do some weird delayed 1 base all-ins usually against me. I actually played a long TvP against one of the custom ai's or whatever once though....)
So I've been mainly practicing TvZ because it's "closest" to TvZ in SC2 [only problem in TvZ against the computer is that they make hydra lurk... ._.]
I want to make sure my game plan is ok at least
TvZ: 1rax -> academy+gas -> +2 rax -> (do I put ebay around here?) -> factory -> 2nd gas+machine shop (?) [tanks]-> starport -> sci facility&addon -> (dropship -> sci vessel?) @3 tanks, vessel: push while making 3rd [funny enough, the computer pushes around this time too >_>] add more factories+barracks while taking more bases [I guess I shouldn't worry about late mechanic -- is that even used still? Not sure]
TvP: rax+gas (11,12) -> factory -> vulture -> [do I put ebay/academy around here?] -> machine shop (research mines -> seige -> speed?) -> expand when able (around getting mines), +2 more factories (techlab, techlab, noaddon) -> armory -> I guess a 3rd around here? -> starport?+more factories?
TvT: rax+gas (11,12) -> factory -> vulture -> [do I put ebay/academy around here?] -> machine shop (research mines -> seige -> speed?) -> expand when able (around getting mines), --- not sure what to do here. I guess I should just go into 3fact + armory so I can handle wraiths? idk
Thanks.
You should look at BW liquipedia for the following builds, they will state the specific timings for all your questions.
TvZ - 1 Rax FE into +1 5 Rax (get [range + 2 turrets + 3 bunkers] or [factory after 2nd rax (2 rax tech)] if you think 2 hatch lurker) -> Late mechanic (3rd CC in base, build 5 facts lift 5 raxes, float CC) or SKTerran (8 Rax 2 Starport, 2 base heavy, very late 3rd).
Siege Expand or Fake Double -> 6 fac timing or 4 fact expand to 3rd (the buffer is necessary due to being impossible to get a 3rd without dying [let alone punish] as a beginner, once you get better you can get 3rd off less facts)
I came from BW to SC2 when it came out havent played it since till last week or so now I hate SC2 haha cant believe how much better BW feels compared to SC2 its amazing just watch yourself so you don't run into the same problems I have of falling into love with BW and resenting SC2 for being a piece of dog poo.
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
Pfft, by who? Zerg is definitely the hardest in terms of counter-intuitiveness. Terran and Toss have the most early game options and ways to practice their start up. Zerg basically have to play for mid-game and can die before they even get a chance to do anything, and when they do get to that midgame they have less chances to practice it since they don't get to it every game.
In the early days when Terran and Toss didn't FE I might have agreed because Zerg had some strength throughout the game, but these days it is a huge task for a Zerg to figure out how to manage his economy and compete with an FE without dying.
Of course all races have their difficulties, but the best thing about Terran is that they have the most learning resources and guides and FPVODs to help you. Zerg basically have 5 year old commentaries by Chill hahahaha.
Eh, terran is the hardest race mechanically by far. You simply have to have solid mechanics in every aspect to play them correctly. Protoss is forgiving on micro, zerg is forgiving on macro. But yes, zerg is rather counterintuitive to learn. Since he's an sc2 player I assume he's familiar with at least some of the mechanics of zerg though, so I'd assume it wouldn't be totally foreign. For a new player - zerg is weird as hell.
I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
On March 03 2012 13:29 Fiel wrote: I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
hahahahahaha I think I've done that quite a bit of times when I played as Z against the AI too before... :S
On March 03 2012 13:29 Fiel wrote: I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
LOL!
You have no idea. By midgame it's not uncommon for me to have a fleet of like 60+ scourge running around.
On March 03 2012 13:29 Fiel wrote: I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
On March 03 2012 13:29 Fiel wrote: I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
LOL!
You have no idea. By midgame it's not uncommon for me to have a fleet of like 60+ scourge running around.
And in pro zvp it's not uncommon to see it either =D
On February 24 2012 06:40 Hinanawi wrote: Good luck, Terran is I think considered the hardest race to play at a beginner level, and even the guys in D/D- are like the equivalent of Diamond in SC2, so don't let a lot of losses get you down.
Pfft, by who? Zerg is definitely the hardest in terms of counter-intuitiveness. Terran and Toss have the most early game options and ways to practice their start up. Zerg basically have to play for mid-game and can die before they even get a chance to do anything, and when they do get to that midgame they have less chances to practice it since they don't get to it every game.
In the early days when Terran and Toss didn't FE I might have agreed because Zerg had some strength throughout the game, but these days it is a huge task for a Zerg to figure out how to manage his economy and compete with an FE without dying.
Of course all races have their difficulties, but the best thing about Terran is that they have the most learning resources and guides and FPVODs to help you. Zerg basically have 5 year old commentaries by Chill hahahaha.
Eh, terran is the hardest race mechanically by far. You simply have to have solid mechanics in every aspect to play them correctly. Protoss is forgiving on micro, zerg is forgiving on macro. But yes, zerg is rather counterintuitive to learn. Since he's an sc2 player I assume he's familiar with at least some of the mechanics of zerg though, so I'd assume it wouldn't be totally foreign. For a new player - zerg is weird as hell.
I found Terran the easiest of all races funnily enough (after playing random for a while), I was gonna main Zerg but ZvP just gave me the shits.
On March 03 2012 13:29 Fiel wrote: I picked up Brood War a week or two ago and played ZvX against the AI a few times. I suddenly wanted to punch the person who decided that "s" would be a good hotkey for scourge. X_X
TvP is the most painful. TvZ is fun just watch your ramp when you fast CC keep your rines close by and pull your scvs if they try to mass ling you. This also entails good scouting ie trying to check ling count with scv. TvT is the best ever but really hard to get used to the ebb and flow. I forget my go to builds so I can't help there. HF!
Well it's been a little over 2 months of me not playing BW and playing SC2 instead. Since I kinda of left this thread hanging I'd like to add my thoughts.
In a nutshell, my heart belongs to SC2 (I did play it first after all) but my brain wants me to play BW. Since I was young I've always loved challenge. Modern games these days, especially fps games offer no challenge on the hardest difficulties for me and games in general are so similar to each other that I actually hate modern gaming. Starcraft, both 1 and 2, are diamonds in the rough so to speak.
So what I will do is likely try to get C- at some point in the future but all my efforts are focused on SC2.
BW is such an amazing game I just wish I had met it sooner. Thank you all for your support and showing me that there is one community left on the internet that aren't complete dicks. +1 faith in humanity. I just don't like being years and years behind people. It would just take far too long, like months and years long, to catch up and become decent. I originally wanted to hit B+ when I started out but I don't think it's worth the time investment.
At least I can watch the OSLs now and actually have some clue what's going on
Thank you all and keep on supporting your game! <3
Big love to the guys that helped me understand various things. Especially the guy that taught me the FD build. Pretty much the only build I actually know.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/0VZ67)
. Hi Saline 
played Z in sc2 decided to get into bw, so far have made 86 - 153 on iccup and hit c- for few games (xDDD yeahw). but still struggling a lot. but its really fun... have played until 4.30am quite a lot recently. sometimes its frustrating esp. if i play vs T mech turtle, but u know... play one cs match, get cool, start again...good stuff :D![[image loading]](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg28/scaled.php?server=28&filename=spylog.jpg&res=medium)
![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/4f6/21b/df9/resized/unimpressed-flash-meme-generator-masters-sc2-d-on-iccup-edc39a.jpg)
