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Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:
We're not in denial. There's good evidence to suspect that many BW players will never switch over. They'll go back to school. They'll do something else.
Pretty sure of that too, but some could like nada did, play sc2 and go to school at the same time.
I mean, look at Yellow. He had a go at SC2. Then he went on to do some commercials for Poker.
On October 18 2011 07:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:
But if anything, it'll just feel good for a lot of us who have been saying that when the real pros switch over (I always shake my head when people say: OMG MC so pro), then they'll just show how dominant top BW players are compared with everyone else (and show you guys that what Intrigue wrote back then was 100% true).
I don't understand why people still try to compare sc2 pros with bw pros. Nestea was bad at bw and now he is one of the best players in the world, forgg was quite good at bw and played sc2 since season one but doesn't have any results (I heard his games were far from exceptional when he was playing some koth) except being high ranked on ladder, which many code b players do too. Maybe he didn't play it seriously but still.
It's an evidence bw pros will be good at sc2 if they train for it,they would be good at every rts because they have amazing apm, mechanics,... but sc2 and bw are different games so it's not because you were better than someone in bw that you will be better than him in sc2.
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On October 18 2011 07:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:10 MrSandman wrote:
Okay...read some of the other comments. Surprised to see a lack of the word epic, also suprised to see a lot of the word rage.
It is good to note that Bw fans are just as silly as Sc2 fans when it comes to their idols. Who sees news like this and their first thought is "Blizzard is going to force them to play a different computer game against their will".
Because Brood War pros aren't allowed to play other computer games for fun? I agree with the people who suggest that they may play some show matches in both games because they might just like both. If you play Call of Duty for 11 years and then Battlefield comes out, I think you'd try that before some completely different other game.
Anyway I'll be looking for some blogs detailing blizzcon experiences, anyone up for it? HOW many people actually said "OH NO THEY'LL FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY SC2? How is that then suddenly cast as an umbrella statement for BW fans? Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:22 andaylin wrote:On October 18 2011 07:16 ImbaTosS wrote:On October 18 2011 06:50 Jaxtyk wrote:
If jaedong ever switches to sc2, my life is complete Less of this. This is why it's annoying when things are spotlighted, much as I like the news to be accessible. Please keep this opinion to yourself. On October 18 2011 07:13 McKTenor13 wrote:
I know they'll be there to play Brood War, but the SC2 love in me hopes they get to witness how crazy they fans go for the Starcraft 2 gamers here in America. It'll be a nice glimpse into the future for them. The future? Just.. no. hahaha BW players in denial of the future We're not in denial. There's good evidence to suspect that many BW players will never switch over. They'll go back to school. They'll do something else. I mean, look at Yellow. He had a go at SC2. Then he went on to do some commercials for Poker. I don't understand why people think BW pros switching is going to be inevitable. I don't think they'll all switch. I'll go with Sheep, who argues that Jaedong will probably never switch. But if anything, it'll just feel good for a lot of us who have been saying that when the real pros switch over (I always shake my head when people say: OMG MC so pro), then they'll just show how dominant top BW players are compared with everyone else (and show you guys that what Intrigue wrote back then was 100% true).
I dont even care anymore, i just write all of it off as elephant in the room insecurity.
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Wow, Blizzcon is pretty stacked this year
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Jaedong, Bisu, Jangbi and up to some degree Fantasy are some of the best SCBW players with (sometimes rabid) huge fanbases, if you still need to wonder why BW people come off so defensive then you aren't doing it right.
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic.
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On October 18 2011 07:57 Kipsate wrote:
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic.
Well, no one can say for sure unless they actually play it...
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Maybe they'll do something like play sc2 show matches? Doesn't seem like blizzard would go to all this trouble to promote bw when they cant make significant money from it. Although it would be awesome to see the best players playing bw (coming from a sc2 only guy)
What do you guys think?
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lol JD gonna win Blizzcon this year 
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parts of me wants to see them play sc2. parts of me is scared that they're just going to get stomped on
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On October 18 2011 07:24 .vid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:10 MrSandman wrote:
Because Brood War pros aren't allowed to play other computer games for fun? Ask nada what happened when he played some sc2 at IEM gamescom :>
He quit BW and started playing SC2 professionally because he didn't like Kespa controlling his life and telling him which games he could and could not play?
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On October 18 2011 08:00 rbkl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:57 Kipsate wrote:
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic. Well, no one can say for sure unless they actually play it...
As he said this is off-topic but in my opinion there are exceptions. Look at MVP, the guy was far from the best in BW, as far as I know he was a standard A-teamer. Yet now he's pretty much the best Sc2 player. Imagine what would happen if Fantasy or Flash switched to Sc2. I'm quite sure the domination would be frightening, especially given the current state of the game.
Obviously this does not apply to every BW progamers, but there are a handful of them who could definitely wreak havoc.
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jaedong switching would be the best news i could ever hear! lets hope!
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On October 18 2011 08:09 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:00 rbkl wrote:On October 18 2011 07:57 Kipsate wrote:
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic. Well, no one can say for sure unless they actually play it... As he said this is off-topic but in my opinion there are exceptions. Look at MVP, the guy was far from the best in BW, as far as I know he was a standard A-teamer. Yet now he's pretty much the best Sc2 player. Imagine what would happen if Fantasy or Flash switched to Sc2. I'm quite sure the domination would be frightening, especially given the current state of the game. Obviously this does not apply to every BW progamers, but there are a handful of them who could definitely wreak havoc.
He was less than a standard A-teamer. The only reason he saw A-team time was because there was a rule that each team had to field at least one player of each race, and he was the best terran on the worst terran lineup in the league.
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On October 18 2011 07:48 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 06:12 Devolved wrote:On October 18 2011 05:44 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 05:36 L_Master wrote:Most of us will be interested to see them play the new game. Certainly. It would be interesting indeed to see what truly top notch mechanics can do with a game like SC2. Of course, if they haven't played enough SC2 to have some familiarity and skill at the game it might be uninteresting. Basically, if they have played some and have a good idea how the game is played this would be pretty awesome, if not, not so much. Its a new age and current esports needs them to transfer over. Not convinced here. SC2 doesn't really need this, and it would be a pretty brutal blow to BW if several of the absolute top switched over. Pretty disappointed in alot of you BW guys though. The amount of BW > sc2 eliteism/snobbery in this thread is depressing. Normally I think BW group does a pretty solid job of quality posting, but when it comes to the mention of sc2, that seems to fall be the wayside. I don't think there's a collective BW hive mind that tells BW elitists to go do things, but a lot of the responses were basically because people were speculating for no reason. I also don't think the elitism is overwhelming in the slightest. There's nothing wrong with people saying they don't want to see Bisu/Jaedong/etc playing SC2. In fact, there's good reason to not want to watch it. True elitism/snobbery would be if everyone in this thread said "Yeah, BW players gonna go roflstomp all of you SC2 noobies because BW is real game and you guys play fake". I don't think anyone has made that comment yet, so it's pretty good, considering that the reaction could've been much worse. On October 18 2011 05:43 Hesmyrr wrote:
Even if they do play SC2, I really do not anticipate much skill difference at all. In fact if Blizzard invite any of current good SC2 pros as opponent, I will expect an roflstomp. SC1 and SC2 are fundamentally different RTS and I never understood why people think pro's skill will have perfect conversion rate; especially when one of their greatest weapons - mechanics - have less significance. Yes, there are tactical experience (which I guess is more important because from MLG I gander single engagement can be the game-decider) but those come over time.
Also I knew BW trolls were going to flame SC2 and take away our already rather debatable "moral superiority", heh. How have people been flaming SC2? There are just people who don't want SC2 showmatches, and instead want BW. There also might not be perfect conversion, but there's a reason why the Koreans, even though they were second rate mediocre players in competitive BW, are at the top of the game. And it's not just because their practice routines are a lot better than foreign routines. Then what is the reason Koreans are better? Are you saying they have some innate ability encoded into their DNA that allows them to perform better at real-time-strategy games? Playing SC2 will lose all entertainment value outside of lolz. And that's not interesting either. Speak for yourself. A lot of ... BW top pros ... are ... evil[,] ... wasn't jangbi talking some time ago about trying to ... shove ... a ... mouse ... up they asses and ... kicking ... every a-teamer.
Taking quotes out of context: what can it do for you?
Seriously though, the sentence directly after what you quoted he says "At least that's what it is for me". He wasn't stating his opinion as a fact, he was just... stating his opinion.
And FWIW, I would agree. I'd much rather watch top BW players play BW than SC2. Sure, it might be kind of interesting to see what Jeff Loomis could do with a banjo, but ultimately I'd rather see him play guitar.
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On October 18 2011 08:09 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:00 rbkl wrote:On October 18 2011 07:57 Kipsate wrote:
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic. Well, no one can say for sure unless they actually play it... As he said this is off-topic but in my opinion there are exceptions. Look at MVP, the guy was far from the best in BW, as far as I know he was a standard A-teamer. Yet now he's pretty much the best Sc2 player. Imagine what would happen if Fantasy or Flash switched to Sc2. I'm quite sure the domination would be frightening, especially given the current state of the game. Obviously this does not apply to every BW progamers, but there are a handful of them who could definitely wreak havoc.
Or they wouldn't do as good because the 'convenient' interface of sc2 would let others have a much easier time beating them.
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Yes, I can already see it. Bisu and JD switching to sc2.
Except now both of them play Terran.
/depression
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On October 18 2011 08:15 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 07:48 dmnum wrote:On October 18 2011 07:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 06:12 Devolved wrote:On October 18 2011 05:44 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 05:36 L_Master wrote:Most of us will be interested to see them play the new game. Certainly. It would be interesting indeed to see what truly top notch mechanics can do with a game like SC2. Of course, if they haven't played enough SC2 to have some familiarity and skill at the game it might be uninteresting. Basically, if they have played some and have a good idea how the game is played this would be pretty awesome, if not, not so much. Its a new age and current esports needs them to transfer over. Not convinced here. SC2 doesn't really need this, and it would be a pretty brutal blow to BW if several of the absolute top switched over. Pretty disappointed in alot of you BW guys though. The amount of BW > sc2 eliteism/snobbery in this thread is depressing. Normally I think BW group does a pretty solid job of quality posting, but when it comes to the mention of sc2, that seems to fall be the wayside. I don't think there's a collective BW hive mind that tells BW elitists to go do things, but a lot of the responses were basically because people were speculating for no reason. I also don't think the elitism is overwhelming in the slightest. There's nothing wrong with people saying they don't want to see Bisu/Jaedong/etc playing SC2. In fact, there's good reason to not want to watch it. True elitism/snobbery would be if everyone in this thread said "Yeah, BW players gonna go roflstomp all of you SC2 noobies because BW is real game and you guys play fake". I don't think anyone has made that comment yet, so it's pretty good, considering that the reaction could've been much worse. On October 18 2011 05:43 Hesmyrr wrote:
Even if they do play SC2, I really do not anticipate much skill difference at all. In fact if Blizzard invite any of current good SC2 pros as opponent, I will expect an roflstomp. SC1 and SC2 are fundamentally different RTS and I never understood why people think pro's skill will have perfect conversion rate; especially when one of their greatest weapons - mechanics - have less significance. Yes, there are tactical experience (which I guess is more important because from MLG I gander single engagement can be the game-decider) but those come over time.
Also I knew BW trolls were going to flame SC2 and take away our already rather debatable "moral superiority", heh. How have people been flaming SC2? There are just people who don't want SC2 showmatches, and instead want BW. There also might not be perfect conversion, but there's a reason why the Koreans, even though they were second rate mediocre players in competitive BW, are at the top of the game. And it's not just because their practice routines are a lot better than foreign routines. Then what is the reason Koreans are better? Are you saying they have some innate ability encoded into their DNA that allows them to perform better at real-time-strategy games? Playing SC2 will lose all entertainment value outside of lolz. And that's not interesting either. Speak for yourself. A lot of ... BW top pros ... are ... evil[,] ... wasn't jangbi talking some time ago about trying to ... shove ... a ... mouse ... up they asses and ... kicking ... every a-teamer. Taking quotes out of context: what can it do for you? Seriously though, the sentence directly after what you quoted he says "At least that's what it is for me". He wasn't stating his opinion as a fact, he was just... stating his opinion. And FWIW, I would agree. I'd much rather watch top BW players play BW than SC2. Sure, it might be kind of interesting to see what Jeff Loomis could do with a banjo, but ultimately I'd rather see him play guitar.
Ok, edited my post. Now, who the fuck are you to say that SC2 is a banjo and SC is guitar? Even BW has not yet reached it's skill cap, and while SC2 has a lot in common with it, they are not the same game. Or you come from the future and already know what's the skill cap for both games, and if that's case please tell me the lottery numbers.
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On October 18 2011 08:09 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:00 rbkl wrote:On October 18 2011 07:57 Kipsate wrote:
Ow yeah, I don't think SC2 has a high enough skillcap to make the current BW progamers dominate in SC2 or whatever but thats irrelevant to the main topic. Well, no one can say for sure unless they actually play it... As he said this is off-topic but in my opinion there are exceptions. Look at MVP, the guy was far from the best in BW, as far as I know he was a standard A-teamer. Yet now he's pretty much the best Sc2 player. Imagine what would happen if Fantasy or Flash switched to Sc2. I'm quite sure the domination would be frightening, especially given the current state of the game. Obviously this does not apply to every BW progamers, but there are a handful of them who could definitely wreak havoc.
Standard A-teamer is pretty friggin good though. He was competitive against anyone he went up against and was consistently used in the team leagues. He was the best BW player to switch (I'm talking how good they were at the time of the switch, not overall history). But you're right, there were probably around 50 players that were around his level or better. Really, MVP (and now forgg) was the only BW player that was competitive in the BW scene at the time to switch to SC2. Imagine how dominant a top 5 BW pro could be compared to a top 50.
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On October 18 2011 08:22 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:15 Rostam wrote:On October 18 2011 07:48 dmnum wrote:On October 18 2011 07:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 06:12 Devolved wrote:On October 18 2011 05:44 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 05:36 L_Master wrote:Most of us will be interested to see them play the new game. Certainly. It would be interesting indeed to see what truly top notch mechanics can do with a game like SC2. Of course, if they haven't played enough SC2 to have some familiarity and skill at the game it might be uninteresting. Basically, if they have played some and have a good idea how the game is played this would be pretty awesome, if not, not so much. Its a new age and current esports needs them to transfer over. Not convinced here. SC2 doesn't really need this, and it would be a pretty brutal blow to BW if several of the absolute top switched over. Pretty disappointed in alot of you BW guys though. The amount of BW > sc2 eliteism/snobbery in this thread is depressing. Normally I think BW group does a pretty solid job of quality posting, but when it comes to the mention of sc2, that seems to fall be the wayside. I don't think there's a collective BW hive mind that tells BW elitists to go do things, but a lot of the responses were basically because people were speculating for no reason. I also don't think the elitism is overwhelming in the slightest. There's nothing wrong with people saying they don't want to see Bisu/Jaedong/etc playing SC2. In fact, there's good reason to not want to watch it. True elitism/snobbery would be if everyone in this thread said "Yeah, BW players gonna go roflstomp all of you SC2 noobies because BW is real game and you guys play fake". I don't think anyone has made that comment yet, so it's pretty good, considering that the reaction could've been much worse. On October 18 2011 05:43 Hesmyrr wrote:
Even if they do play SC2, I really do not anticipate much skill difference at all. In fact if Blizzard invite any of current good SC2 pros as opponent, I will expect an roflstomp. SC1 and SC2 are fundamentally different RTS and I never understood why people think pro's skill will have perfect conversion rate; especially when one of their greatest weapons - mechanics - have less significance. Yes, there are tactical experience (which I guess is more important because from MLG I gander single engagement can be the game-decider) but those come over time.
Also I knew BW trolls were going to flame SC2 and take away our already rather debatable "moral superiority", heh. How have people been flaming SC2? There are just people who don't want SC2 showmatches, and instead want BW. There also might not be perfect conversion, but there's a reason why the Koreans, even though they were second rate mediocre players in competitive BW, are at the top of the game. And it's not just because their practice routines are a lot better than foreign routines. Then what is the reason Koreans are better? Are you saying they have some innate ability encoded into their DNA that allows them to perform better at real-time-strategy games? Playing SC2 will lose all entertainment value outside of lolz. And that's not interesting either. Speak for yourself. A lot of ... BW top pros ... are ... evil[,] ... wasn't jangbi talking some time ago about trying to ... shove ... a ... mouse ... up they asses and ... kicking ... every a-teamer. Taking quotes out of context: what can it do for you? Seriously though, the sentence directly after what you quoted he says "At least that's what it is for me". He wasn't stating his opinion as a fact, he was just... stating his opinion. And FWIW, I would agree. I'd much rather watch top BW players play BW than SC2. Sure, it might be kind of interesting to see what Jeff Loomis could do with a banjo, but ultimately I'd rather see him play guitar. Ok, edited my post. Now, who the fuck are you to say that SC2 is a banjo and SC is guitar? Even BW has not yet reached it's skill cap, and while SC2 has a lot in common with it, they are not the same game. Or you come from the future and already know what's the skill cap for both games, and if that's case please tell me the lottery numbers.
Do I believe that Starcraft 2 is really a banjo? No, it's a video game. Banjos and guitars are similar and yet different, like Starcraft and Starcraft 2. That's kind of the point of the analogy.
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Jaedong and bisu have been playing heart of the swarm for months, and they're going to have a show match at blizzcon playing heart of the swarm.
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On October 18 2011 08:25 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 08:22 dmnum wrote:On October 18 2011 08:15 Rostam wrote:On October 18 2011 07:48 dmnum wrote:On October 18 2011 07:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 06:12 Devolved wrote:On October 18 2011 05:44 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 18 2011 05:36 L_Master wrote:Most of us will be interested to see them play the new game. Certainly. It would be interesting indeed to see what truly top notch mechanics can do with a game like SC2. Of course, if they haven't played enough SC2 to have some familiarity and skill at the game it might be uninteresting. Basically, if they have played some and have a good idea how the game is played this would be pretty awesome, if not, not so much. Its a new age and current esports needs them to transfer over. Not convinced here. SC2 doesn't really need this, and it would be a pretty brutal blow to BW if several of the absolute top switched over. Pretty disappointed in alot of you BW guys though. The amount of BW > sc2 eliteism/snobbery in this thread is depressing. Normally I think BW group does a pretty solid job of quality posting, but when it comes to the mention of sc2, that seems to fall be the wayside. I don't think there's a collective BW hive mind that tells BW elitists to go do things, but a lot of the responses were basically because people were speculating for no reason. I also don't think the elitism is overwhelming in the slightest. There's nothing wrong with people saying they don't want to see Bisu/Jaedong/etc playing SC2. In fact, there's good reason to not want to watch it. True elitism/snobbery would be if everyone in this thread said "Yeah, BW players gonna go roflstomp all of you SC2 noobies because BW is real game and you guys play fake". I don't think anyone has made that comment yet, so it's pretty good, considering that the reaction could've been much worse. On October 18 2011 05:43 Hesmyrr wrote:
Even if they do play SC2, I really do not anticipate much skill difference at all. In fact if Blizzard invite any of current good SC2 pros as opponent, I will expect an roflstomp. SC1 and SC2 are fundamentally different RTS and I never understood why people think pro's skill will have perfect conversion rate; especially when one of their greatest weapons - mechanics - have less significance. Yes, there are tactical experience (which I guess is more important because from MLG I gander single engagement can be the game-decider) but those come over time.
Also I knew BW trolls were going to flame SC2 and take away our already rather debatable "moral superiority", heh. How have people been flaming SC2? There are just people who don't want SC2 showmatches, and instead want BW. There also might not be perfect conversion, but there's a reason why the Koreans, even though they were second rate mediocre players in competitive BW, are at the top of the game. And it's not just because their practice routines are a lot better than foreign routines. Then what is the reason Koreans are better? Are you saying they have some innate ability encoded into their DNA that allows them to perform better at real-time-strategy games? Playing SC2 will lose all entertainment value outside of lolz. And that's not interesting either. Speak for yourself. A lot of ... BW top pros ... are ... evil[,] ... wasn't jangbi talking some time ago about trying to ... shove ... a ... mouse ... up they asses and ... kicking ... every a-teamer. Taking quotes out of context: what can it do for you? Seriously though, the sentence directly after what you quoted he says "At least that's what it is for me". He wasn't stating his opinion as a fact, he was just... stating his opinion. And FWIW, I would agree. I'd much rather watch top BW players play BW than SC2. Sure, it might be kind of interesting to see what Jeff Loomis could do with a banjo, but ultimately I'd rather see him play guitar. Ok, edited my post. Now, who the fuck are you to say that SC2 is a banjo and SC is guitar? Even BW has not yet reached it's skill cap, and while SC2 has a lot in common with it, they are not the same game. Or you come from the future and already know what's the skill cap for both games, and if that's case please tell me the lottery numbers. Do I believe that Starcraft 2 is really a banjo? No, it's a video game. Banjos and guitars are similar and yet different, like Starcraft and Starcraft 2. That's kind of the point of the analogy.
You have slandered your last banjo good sir! I hereby challenge you to a duel!
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EPT
