Keep any SC2 vs BW comments out of this thread. This is a thread about Brood War and Esports (Tekken Crash, Special Forces, etc) in general. If you discuss what this means for ESPORTS be sensitive about it.
It's not hard to understand. This are news regarding BW and Esports in general. This posts by Ryo explains it a bit:
On July 29 2011 02:05 Ryo wrote: Even if PL and MSL are run on another channel, how about the other competitive games like Special Forces and Tekken? And then where would all the matches be played? Are they going to close the Loox Center as well? STX Cup and Elite Schools League are also run exclusively by MBC. That's not even mentioning all the other game related content on MBCGame channel. What a terrible blow to esports.
So when posting here, try to think twice. "Is what I'm going to post relevant to the thread?", "I am going to start a flame war by posting this?". Just common sense.
Brood War through it's history has been run on 2 channels mainly: OnGameNet (OGN) and MBC Game (MBC).
The two big single leagues Brood War has are OSL (Ongame net StarLeague) and MSL (Mbc StarLeague). There was another single league run by GomTV but it died some time ago (because of KeSPA reasons and things that are not relevant). There are also some off-season single leagues now and then, but those are minor in the grand scheme of things.
The team league (what we call Proleague) is run by both channels together MBC and OGN. There's 2 matches a night, one on each channel. Finals are on both channels at the same time.
These news are important because MBC Game is a channel dedicated to video games. Besides the Brood War main shows (MSL, Proleague), MBC also has other shows like MBC Hero Attack (where TL Attack got the idea from), some shows were commentators play with players, an 'amateur' Brood War league etc.
Besides that MBC hosts shows on other games like Tekken Crash (fighting game), Special Forces (Counter-Strike korean clone) and if I remember correctly other online games like Kart Rider (mario kart online basically).
This means that if MBC is gone, first part of the infrastructure could be gone or re-conditioned for the Kpop music channel. They own a studio where the matches are played.
Commentators could lose their job and people who work here. Some of the people could still work for the music channel I guess: camera guys, lighting, make-up, directors, etc.
The name would be gone. MSL exists because beside the infrastructure it holds prestige, they have a relationship with KeSPA and teams (Gom league had the cash, but didn't have this). They also have a strong name, which lets them negotiate with big sponsors.
So, I don't want to blow this out of proportion, because no news are final yet. But MBC Game closing down (or switching to another thing) would be pretty big for BW and pretty big for any niche Esports in Korea.
On July 29 2011 02:49 SC2Joker wrote: Now is the time for eSports to be strong. BW and SC2 fans must unite to save eSports. Come, join the dark side. We have cookies :D
I was going to write an angry post filling up the entire scene telling you to go fuck yourself. Then I realized that this scene doesn't mean all that much to you, and this was your way of easing some people into what you see as a natural transition.
Well, have you ever considered that it may be unwise to mention such things to those who don't want to "move on"? What about the high level commentary of those whose ten year experience is about to go to dust? It's not some show that's going off the air, it's an entire broadcasting station that's about to be shut down. Do you even have any idea of the magnitude involved with this entire fucked up situation before throwing around cute words like eSports? You think the moment the scene takes a huge hit like this I'm suddenly going to fall in love with the idea of watching some amateur that couldn' cut it in the real deal streaming some ladder games in his appartment playing a game that I couldn't care less for?
I'm sorry, I think showing some fucking respect and restraint will be much appreciated by the likes of me who is fucking pissed off and worried as hell, as opposed to this happy-as-can-be attitude you're showing right now in the face of grave times.
Understand this: if any of us care about SC2, they already follow it. Those who don't, won't suddenly start to like SC2. I do not give a shit about "esports", I care about BW. How hard is that to understand?
Its not our responsibility, as SC2 players, to tiptoe around your extreme sensitivities.
That post you responded to was good natured and positive but you responded to it like that dude just insulted your mother. Here's a dose of reality: people that didn't play BW probably don't care that much about this situation. No one owes it to you to care as much as you do and talk about it like its a big tragedy. In the grand scheme its just a damn game, its not like people cheering in the streets during 9/11. People can see the positives in this, if they want to.
ed: double word
You don't owe me a goddamn thing, but if you're going out of your way to cheer in my face when I've made it clear that I'm upset over this situation, then I'll promptly respond by telling you to go fuck yourself. No one is forcing you to give a rat's ass, but do you take joy in being a dick, or are you just too stupid to understand that when you post here, expressing your giddiness over this news will most likely be replied with hostility?
I didn't say that I was happy about it. I played BW for 5 years, it was the only game I played in high school.
Despite that, its obvious that you guys are being way too sensitive. "Sc2 and BW must unite to save esports!" is so offensive that the guy needs to be cussed out for a full paragraph? lol
I didn't say that I was happy about it. I played BW for 5 years, it was the only game I played in high school.
Despite that, its obvious that you guys are being way too sensitive. "Sc2 and BW must unite to save esports!" is so offensive that the guy needs to be cussed out for a full paragraph? lol
It is not offensive, but here, not many care about esports. They, and me included, only care about BW. Not SC2. Not esports. That's why we are butthurt of this.
I didn't say that I was happy about it. I played BW for 5 years, it was the only game I played in high school.
Despite that, its obvious that you guys are being way too sensitive. "Sc2 and BW must unite to save esports!" is so offensive that the guy needs to be cussed out for a full paragraph? lol
It is not offensive, but here, not many care about esports. They, and me included, only care about BW. Not SC2. Not esports. That's why we are butthurt of this.
People keep telling you it goes way beyond that. You only care about BW. That is fine, but the real story is this effects everyone.
I don't know how anyone could cuss someone out for saying it's time to band together to save something as important as MBC Game.
On July 29 2011 02:49 SC2Joker wrote: Now is the time for eSports to be strong. BW and SC2 fans must unite to save eSports. Come, join the dark side. We have cookies :D
I was going to write an angry post filling up the entire scene telling you to go fuck yourself. Then I realized that this scene doesn't mean all that much to you, and this was your way of easing some people into what you see as a natural transition.
Well, have you ever considered that it may be unwise to mention such things to those who don't want to "move on"? What about the high level commentary of those whose ten year experience is about to go to dust? It's not some show that's going off the air, it's an entire broadcasting station that's about to be shut down. Do you even have any idea of the magnitude involved with this entire fucked up situation before throwing around cute words like eSports? You think the moment the scene takes a huge hit like this I'm suddenly going to fall in love with the idea of watching some amateur that couldn' cut it in the real deal streaming some ladder games in his appartment playing a game that I couldn't care less for?
I'm sorry, I think showing some fucking respect and restraint will be much appreciated by the likes of me who is fucking pissed off and worried as hell, as opposed to this happy-as-can-be attitude you're showing right now in the face of grave times.
Understand this: if any of us care about SC2, they already follow it. Those who don't, won't suddenly start to like SC2. I do not give a shit about "esports", I care about BW. How hard is that to understand?
Its not our responsibility, as SC2 players, to tiptoe around your extreme sensitivities.
That post you responded to was good natured and positive but you responded to it like that dude just insulted your mother. Here's a dose of reality: people that didn't play BW probably don't care that much about this situation. No one owes it to you to care as much as you do and talk about it like its a big tragedy. In the grand scheme its just a damn game, its not like people cheering in the streets during 9/11. People can see the positives in this, if they want to.
ed: double word
You don't owe me a goddamn thing, but if you're going out of your way to cheer in my face when I've made it clear that I'm upset over this situation, then I'll promptly respond by telling you to go fuck yourself. No one is forcing you to give a rat's ass, but do you take joy in being a dick, or are you just too stupid to understand that when you post here, expressing your giddiness over this news will most likely be replied with hostility?
I didn't say that I was happy about it. I played BW for 5 years, it was the only game I played in high school.
Despite that, its obvious that you guys are being way too sensitive. "Sc2 and BW must unite to save esports!" is so offensive that the guy needs to be cussed out for a full paragraph? lol
Since so many people made it so clear with their casual and light conversation tone that they have next to no concern regarding the situation, I guess I got carried away with some of my posts. However, what exactly are the positives to be taken here if the rumours are true? The community joining forces? What? What will a bunch of people on the internet who have zero influence on the ratings of the said broadcasting company achieve other than spreading the word of the bad news? I instead understood it as a way of mentioning what numerous posters keep mentioning as inevitable assimilation. That assumption that I want such changes, along with the general cheerful tone in the face of one of the gravest news for the scene, is what provoked my admitidly overdone aggression.
If you don't feel bad about what's going on, then please don't waste your energy explaining to me how little you care and how I am overreacting in your eyes. Don't bother trying to amend to situation by stating how in some ways this is good news because we'll be moving on. Don't try persuading me that it's only a goddamn game and it's not a big deal because you won't miss it when it's gone. If you do that, I'm going to lash out, and it'll be dealt with trigger happy fingers because I'm pissed off and ready to unleash. All I'm saying is that you don't need to care, but if you don't, try to understand that my threshold for provocation is set low right now and it's best for all of us if you just don't bother to try to make me see things from your side of the fence, even if you think you're the one being rational. Fuck rationality, MBCGame is about to go down.
I would just like to give my two cents on this issue (I'm at work on TL, keke):
Spectating eSports is not a hobby for me: it's a passion. Honest to god, I go to bed every single night with a TL stream / VoD on (I have done this now for every night that I am at home / have access to my Android if I am away). I wake up each morning at 6am, and turn on MSL, OSL or GSL before work. Right as I come home from work, I turn on any BW/SC2 stream. I play for a few hours, and repeat. As you may inquire, a LARGE portion of this is content derived from MBCGame (MSL ST, MSL, SPL)
It's frankly way more than just 50% of BW progaming fading away; it's similar to a family with two parents who are forced to separate. OSL and MSL are like the venture capitalists who sparked everything we know about tournaments. There was no prestige, no honor, no dedication, no formality... nothing, before these two leagues were around. And this does not apply to only BW. This applies to every single game around.
I am in such shock, I can't even think of what to write that is substantive, other than to express the actual impact this will have on my life. I just hope to god that this is a falsified rumor which will go away, and MBCGame will still be around. Otherwise, if the Domino effect kicks in... I don't know what I'd do...
This is arguably even worse than the Savior scandal... I'm speechless.
Are there any (official) DVDs or any official place where old matches will be placed?
I know there are VODs but it'd be neat to know there's a secure place where all BW matches are kept safe (in terms of youtube, who knows what can happen which may cause videos to be taken down).
Well if it things go bad, at least we'll have archives :\.
This was one of my first games I watched (I heard of Boxer and watched a replay before the VOD though):
On July 29 2011 05:31 IntoTheWow wrote: Ok, gravity of the situation (imo)
Brood War through it's history has been run on 2 channels mainly: OnGameNet (OGN) and MBC Game (MBC).
The two big single leagues Brood War has are OSL (Ongame net StarLeague) and MSL (Mbc StarLeague). There was another single league run by GomTV but it died some time ago (because of KeSPA reasons and things that are not relevant). There are also some off-season single leagues now and then, but those are minor in the grand scheme of things.
The team league (what we call Proleague) is run by both channels together MBC and OGN. There's 2 matches a night, one on each channel. Finals are on both channels at the same time.
These news are important because MBC Game is a channel dedicated to video games. Besides the Brood War main shows (MSL, Proleague), MBC also has other shows like MBC Hero Attack (where TL Attack got the idea from), some shows were commentators play with players, an 'amateur' Brood War league etc.
Besides that MBC hosts shows on other games like Tekken Crash (fighting game), Special Forces (Counter-Strike korean clone) and if I remember correctly other online games like Kart Rider (mario kart online basically).
This means that if MBC is gone, first part of the infrastructure could be gone or re-conditioned for the Kpop music channel. They own a studio where the matches are played.
Commentators could lose their job and people who work here. Some of the people could still work for the music channel I guess: camera guys, lighting, make-up, directors, etc.
The name would be gone. MSL exists because beside the infrastructure it holds prestige, they have a relationship with KeSPA and teams (Gom league had the cash, but didn't have this). They also have a strong name, which lets them negotiate with big sponsors.
So, I don't want to blow this out of proportion, because no news are final yet. But MBC Game closing down (or switching to another thing) would be pretty big for BW and pretty big for any niche Esports in Korea.
Thanks for this. I didn't want to go into this thread with a post saying "what does this mean, what is MBC game".
With that being sad, damn then this is sad news.
What I don't understand is I thought BW was still very strong with the audience in Korea. Why do MBC game become a music channel?
To make a more substantial reply, even if BW by itself is profitable (which we don't know for a fact), running a station in itself has large fixed costs. We know that MBCGame is running at a loss, so obviously BW is not profitable enough to cover the entire cost of the station, which includes licensing, whatever you pay the cable companies to get the channel, large amounts of staff, and so on in addition to the variable costs associated with the Tekken/CS/other games programming. Cutting stuff that people watch less than BW might help, but I doubt a channel that's <= 3 hours of BW and 21 hours of commercials is going to succeed either. The current (and apparently new) management of MBC doesn't believe that MBCGame is worth whatever effort it would take to make it profitable, so they're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and remove the channel completely. One could argue that MBCGame provides an intangible benefit to MBC by improving their image among young people, but even if this effect exists, obviously the management doesn't value it enough to want to cover MBCGame's losses.
On July 29 2011 02:49 SC2Joker wrote: Now is the time for eSports to be strong. BW and SC2 fans must unite to save eSports. Come, join the dark side. We have cookies :D
I was going to write an angry post filling up the entire scene telling you to go fuck yourself. Then I realized that this scene doesn't mean all that much to you, and this was your way of easing some people into what you see as a natural transition.
Well, have you ever considered that it may be unwise to mention such things to those who don't want to "move on"? What about the high level commentary of those whose ten year experience is about to go to dust? It's not some show that's going off the air, it's an entire broadcasting station that's about to be shut down. Do you even have any idea of the magnitude involved with this entire fucked up situation before throwing around cute words like eSports? You think the moment the scene takes a huge hit like this I'm suddenly going to fall in love with the idea of watching some amateur that couldn' cut it in the real deal streaming some ladder games in his appartment playing a game that I couldn't care less for?
I'm sorry, I think showing some fucking respect and restraint will be much appreciated by the likes of me who is fucking pissed off and worried as hell, as opposed to this happy-as-can-be attitude you're showing right now in the face of grave times.
Understand this: if any of us care about SC2, they already follow it. Those who don't, won't suddenly start to like SC2. I do not give a shit about "esports", I care about BW. How hard is that to understand?
Its not our responsibility, as SC2 players, to tiptoe around your extreme sensitivities.
That post you responded to was good natured and positive but you responded to it like that dude just insulted your mother. Here's a dose of reality: people that didn't play BW probably don't care that much about this situation. No one owes it to you to care as much as you do and talk about it like its a big tragedy. In the grand scheme its just a damn game, its not like people cheering in the streets during 9/11. People can see the positives in this, if they want to.
ed: double word
You don't owe me a goddamn thing, but if you're going out of your way to cheer in my face when I've made it clear that I'm upset over this situation, then I'll promptly respond by telling you to go fuck yourself. No one is forcing you to give a rat's ass, but do you take joy in being a dick, or are you just too stupid to understand that when you post here, expressing your giddiness over this news will most likely be replied with hostility?
My condolences to all of you brood war players. As a fairly new person to the esports scene, I understand that this was an important part of your childhoods.
On July 29 2011 08:02 TBone- wrote: My condolences to all of you brood war players. As a fairly new person to the esports scene, I understand that this was an important part of your childhoods.
On July 29 2011 08:02 TBone- wrote: My condolences to all of you brood war players. As a fairly new person to the esports scene, I understand that this was an important part of your childhoods.
i guess you were well-intending but you still don't get it..
On July 29 2011 05:31 IntoTheWow wrote: Ok, gravity of the situation (imo)
Brood War through it's history has been run on 2 channels mainly: OnGameNet (OGN) and MBC Game (MBC).
The two big single leagues Brood War has are OSL (Ongame net StarLeague) and MSL (Mbc StarLeague). There was another single league run by GomTV but it died some time ago (because of KeSPA reasons and things that are not relevant). There are also some off-season single leagues now and then, but those are minor in the grand scheme of things.
The team league (what we call Proleague) is run by both channels together MBC and OGN. There's 2 matches a night, one on each channel. Finals are on both channels at the same time.
These news are important because MBC Game is a channel dedicated to video games. Besides the Brood War main shows (MSL, Proleague), MBC also has other shows like MBC Hero Attack (where TL Attack got the idea from), some shows were commentators play with players, an 'amateur' Brood War league etc.
Besides that MBC hosts shows on other games like Tekken Crash (fighting game), Special Forces (Counter-Strike korean clone) and if I remember correctly other online games like Kart Rider (mario kart online basically).
This means that if MBC is gone, first part of the infrastructure could be gone or re-conditioned for the Kpop music channel. They own a studio where the matches are played.
Commentators could lose their job and people who work here. Some of the people could still work for the music channel I guess: camera guys, lighting, make-up, directors, etc.
The name would be gone. MSL exists because beside the infrastructure it holds prestige, they have a relationship with KeSPA and teams (Gom league had the cash, but didn't have this). They also have a strong name, which lets them negotiate with big sponsors.
So, I don't want to blow this out of proportion, because no news are final yet. But MBC Game closing down (or switching to another thing) would be pretty big for BW and pretty big for any niche Esports in Korea.
EPT
.
