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Hi there,
I hope this topic is appropriate in here. I'm not very educated in Korean SC:BW progaming history, but what I know is that at all times, there were some players who dominated everything and made a name for themselves. Some became legends.
What I'd like to have is a list of the most influential and successful ones. However, due to the long history of SC:BW progaming and the fact that there are quite a few big names, it's very difficult for me to make out who was influential, who was very influential and who was incredibly influential.
EDIT: Influential in a competitive sense, they don't necessarily need to have revolutionized the gameplay even though that is a huge plus... I'm taking about a combination of success, fame and innovation – somebody without whom SC:BW progaming wouldn't be the same. Think of it like: 'Who should be mentioned in a TV documentary about the history of SC:BW progaming?'
Here is what I have found so far (NEW LIST):
5 Stars - The Very Best
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars - The Very Good But Slightly Less Influential Ones
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal)
Old List:
+ Show Spoiler +5 Stars
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
4 Stars
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
How accurate is this? Any names I missed? Any blatant ranking mistakes? Please be considerate. Of course, I am aware that it is highly subjective, but it doesn't have to be super-accurate or anything. I only need ~20 names. Be aware this is more about results and public perception, I'm not searching for the strongest player of all times, so no underdogs/failed talents please. And feel free to point out if someone on my list has won some tourneys but wasn't nearly as influential as the other ones. Any help is highly appreciated, thank you.
//
On March 31 2011 00:21 Murderotica wrote:
IMO this thread would be much cooler if every poster made 1 change to the list. Every subsequent poster would make an additional change, whether it be demote, promote, remove or add progamers. I'll start with my next post.
Feel free to participate in this if it sounds like fun to you. 
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I think Savior should be a 5 star he used to beast all his games, and was a bigger zerg then july. But then again its all just opinion and savior was a match fixer =o.
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Didn't Bisu revolutionize PvZ?
Why is he not 5 star? o_O And this is speaking from a Terran's point of view.
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I'd put oov and savior above nada personally. Nada was just consistently strong, but he hasn't really revolutionized anything. July is in the same boat, but at least his muta micro was stellar. Personally:
boxer, oov, savior, bisu, flash, possibly nal_ra
EDIT: then nada, july, possible nal_ra, yellow
everyone else
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
July too high, Savior too low, Iloveoov too low, Yellow too low, Luxury shouldn't be on this list, probably GoRush either.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On March 31 2011 00:18 buhhy wrote:
I'd put oov and savior above nada personally. Nada was just consistently strong, but he hasn't really revolutionized anything. July is in the same boat, but at least his muta micro was stellar. Personally:
boxer, oov, savior, bisu, flash, possibly nal_ra
everyone else
Nada created Tornado Terran and perfected SK Terran, both of which were emulated for a long time. Definitely deserves to be where he is.
I don't think Bisu's PvZ revolution is worthy of 5 star placement, and I say this as a Protoss player and rabid Bisu fan. 5 stars should be reserved for Nada, Oov, Savior, Boxer, Flash, maybe Yellow.
IMO this thread would be much cooler if every poster made 1 change to the list. Every subsequent poster would make an additional change, whether it be demote, promote, remove or add progamers. I'll start with my next post.
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Oov, Savior and Bisu definitely 5 stars. Oov is still influencing the way BW is played today.
Let's not forget Shark invented muta stacking.
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On March 31 2011 00:21 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 00:18 buhhy wrote:
I'd put oov and savior above nada personally. Nada was just consistently strong, but he hasn't really revolutionized anything. July is in the same boat, but at least his muta micro was stellar. Personally:
boxer, oov, savior, bisu, flash, possibly nal_ra
everyone else Nada created Tornado Terran and perfected SK Terran, both of which were emulated for a long time. Definitely deserves to be where he is. I don't think Bisu's PvZ revolution is worthy of 5 star placement, and I say this as a Protoss player and rabid Bisu fan. 5 stars should be reserved for Nada, Oov, Savior, Boxer, Flash, maybe Yellow.
Right. Forgot about tornado.
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You have a few names that aren't really influential by any means. I can't thinkof any contributions that Luxury, foru, gorush, effort or xellos really made. Given, anyone who was good affected the game in some way, but not to suh an extent as to call them influential. If you want influence, you should be looking at beta testers and earlyplayers like Maynard and Grrr. Guys like Best and Zero might also deserve spots because of the fact that they just play the game differently.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
5 Stars
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
4 Stars
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
3 Stars
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Chan Soo (Luxury)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Change: Moved July to 3 Stars.
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On March 31 2011 00:23 Ryo wrote:
Oov, Savior and Bisu definitely 5 stars. Oov is still influencing the way BW is played today.
Let's not forget Shark invented muta stacking.
Oov is probably one of the most influential progamers. Guy is a monster.
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On March 31 2011 00:18 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Didn't Bisu revolutionize PvZ?
Why is he not 5 star? o_O And this is speaking from a Terran's point of view.
Like I said, I know very little about SC:BW. I simply don't know who revolutionized what, this is why I asked for help. I put him into the 5 star group. Moved YellOw one group higher. Also removed Luxury. Waiting for more responses before I apply other changes, though.
// okay, I moved sAviOr and iloveoov into 5star on my personal list.
By the way feel free to do what Murderotica suggested, one person making one change. I won't directly apply all changes to my personal list, but it sounds like fun.
//
On March 31 2011 00:23 FreezerJumps wrote:
If you want influence, you should be looking at beta testers and earlyplayers like Maynard and Grrr. Guys like Best and Zero might also deserve spots because of the fact that they just play the game differently.
It's only about Korean progaming for now. It's to provide some basic knowledge about it. Think about it like: Which Korean progamers would deserve a Wikipedia article or should be mentioned in a TV documentary about SC:BW progaming history? Iit's the same reason why I'm leaving July at 5 stars in my personal list; he might not have revolutionized the gameplay at all, but he is a Golden Mouse winner and really famous.)
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Bisu is 5, not 4.
He revolutionized how PvZ is played, and has set a standard for almost every PvZ matches there after.
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Jaedong not 5 stars? He completely changed how zvz is played, he helped build modern zvp and his his 2 hatch zvt changed that match up completely. I think he should totally be 5
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On March 31 2011 00:37 rigelq wrote:
Jaedong not 5 stars? He completely changed how zvz is played, he helped build modern zvp and his his 2 hatch zvt changed that match up completely. I think he should totally be 5
On March 31 2011 00:21 Murderotica wrote:
IMO this thread would be much cooler if every poster made 1 change to the list. Every subsequent poster would make an additional change, whether it be demote, promote, remove or add progamers. I'll start with my next post.
On March 31 2011 00:24 Murderotica wrote:
5 Stars
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
4 Stars
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
3 Stars
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Chan Soo (Luxury)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Change: Moved July to 3 Stars.
Feel free to participate.
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pusan? wasn't he the person who popularized arbiters in pvt?
i am not sure why you have jaedong at only 4 stars
also i do not know what effort or luxury did that was influential... maybe effort helped popularize spores in zvz?
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What really happened to  XellOs? I watched a National Geographic documentary of him..He was awesome back then. Nicknamed as DDR , Perfect Terran.
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I'm not sure JD should be rated only 4 stars, given that he basically brought about modern ZvZ, brought out the 3-hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra build for ZvP, and helped to set trends in ZvT as well (2 hatch muta, anyone?)
For EffOrt, I guess he brought the 4 base turtle style in ZvP?
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
This thread is testament to how many people only read the OP, even in a 1 page thread lol.
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On March 31 2011 00:53 Murderotica wrote:
This thread is testament to how many people only read the OP, even in a 1 page thread lol.
I saw his edit and now effort being there makes sense but Jaedong being only 4 stars is even more bewildering 
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On March 31 2011 00:37 rigelq wrote:
Jaedong not 5 stars? He completely changed how zvz is played, he helped build modern zvp and his his 2 hatch zvt changed that match up completely. I think he should totally be 5
On March 31 2011 00:50 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
I'm not sure JD should be rated only 4 stars, given that he basically brought about modern ZvZ, brought out the 3-hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra build for ZvP, and helped to set trends in ZvT as well (2 hatch muta, anyone?)
For EffOrt, I guess he brought the 4 base turtle style in ZvP?
Cause Flash > JD :D
Though, has JD contributed as much as/more than Flash?
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if flash > jd is the issue the solution is to put flash at 6 stars not jaedong at 4
: 3
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I have an opinion on the matter, like Oov, sAviOr and Flash being the main ones, but importantly enough Midas deserves a rank.
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On March 31 2011 00:59 corumjhaelen wrote:
I have an opinion on the matter, like Oov, sAviOr and Flash being the main ones, but importantly enough Midas deserves a rank.
You're probably right, even I heard of him. Should he be added to the 3 star group?
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EDIT: How did I miss Nal_rA. Also moved a few players around.
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
Jaedong
FlaSh (tentative)
Bisu
NaDa
sAviOr
Four Star:
Nal_rA
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
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On March 31 2011 01:10 HitoriTomoyo wrote:
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
FlaSh (tentative, REALLY tentative)
Bisu
sAviOr
Jaedong
NaDa
Four Star:
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well.
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On March 31 2011 01:15 buhhy wrote:
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well.
I can't believe I missed Nal_rA.
I'm only tentative about FlaSh's position over Bisu and Jaedong; in terms of overall influence, yes FlaSh is currently more influential than Bisu or Jaedong, but I'm considering the overall influence the players have had over the years.
Jaedong and Bisu's influence on the metagame is clear and solid, but beyond innovating/perfecting the FlaSh build, I can't think of anything that FlaSh has accomplished to revolutionize/change the metagame on the level that Jaedong and Bisu have. Same goes for FlaSh and sAviOr (though I'm not sure if I should place sAviOr higher than FlaSh since all I know is that sAviOr popularized 3 Hatch Muta vT and that was pretty much it, though I remember him being a beast in ZvP but I don't think he ever bought anything innovative to that MU).
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I changed my personal list once again. I completely removed the four-star-group, moving Jaedong, Nal_rA and YellOw to the 5 star group. Added Midas and Kal because I know very little about SC:BW but know them both, there's probably a reason for that.
My new personal list (people inside a group not in order):
+ Show Spoiler +5 Stars - The Very Best
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars - The Very Good But Slightly Less Influential Ones
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal)
Of course, this is only the list I'm going to use, I'm not capable of using everyone's feedback. Very interesting read so far, though.
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GARIMTO and Stork should be 5 star imo. Edit: Also maybe Grrrr.
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On March 31 2011 01:23 KaveX wrote:I changed my personal list once again. I completely removed the four-star-group, moving Jaedong, Nal_rA and YellOw to the 5 star group. Added Midas and Kal because I know very little about SC:BW but know them both, there's probably a reason for that. My new personal list: + Show Spoiler +5 Stars - The Very Best
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars - The Very Good But Slightly Less Influential Ones
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal) Of course, this is only the list I'm going to use, I'm not capable of using everyone's feedback. Very interesting read so far, though.
The list you have is a list of who's famous/popular but not necessarily a list of who's influential.
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Poll: Who of these players is the least influential/successful?Kal (13) 54% AnyTime (2) 8% XellOs (2) 8% EffOrt (2) 8% fOru (2) 8% Kingdom (1) 4% GoRush (1) 4% Midas (1) 4% Reach (0) 0% Stork (0) 0% Garimto (0) 0% Fantasy (0) 0% 24 total votes Your vote: Who of these players is the least influential/successful? (Vote): Reach
(Vote): Kingdom
(Vote): Stork
(Vote): AnyTime
(Vote): Garimto
(Vote): XellOs
(Vote): EffOrt
(Vote): Fantasy
(Vote): fOru
(Vote): GoRush
(Vote): Midas
(Vote): Kal
This would be interesting to know for the purpose of my list (I'm aiming to have 20 people in it). Thanks!
//
On March 31 2011 01:27 Ryo wrote:
The list you have is a list of who's famous/popular but not necessarily a list of who's influential.
That's fine with me. As I subsequently clarified in my OP, 'influential' means something else than revolutionizing a matchup for me. I think 'Who should be mentioned in a TV documentary about the history of SC:BW progaming?' really describes it best.
Also, foreigners are a different topic. Of course, I haven't forgotten people like Grrrr... and ElkY.
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On March 31 2011 01:18 HitoriTomoyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 01:15 buhhy wrote:
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well. I can't believe I missed Nal_rA. I'm only tentative about FlaSh's position over Bisu and Jaedong; in terms of overall influence, yes FlaSh is currently more influential than Bisu or Jaedong, but I'm considering the overall influence the players have had over the years. Jaedong and Bisu's influence on the metagame is clear and solid, but beyond innovating/perfecting the FlaSh build, I can't think of anything that FlaSh has accomplished to revolutionize/change the metagame on the level that Jaedong and Bisu have. Same goes for FlaSh and sAviOr (though I'm not sure if I should place sAviOr higher than FlaSh since all I know is that sAviOr popularized 3 Hatch Muta vT and that was pretty much it, though I remember him being a beast in ZvP but I don't think he ever bought anything innovative to that MU).
What.
The person that has been responsible for being at the forefront of trends in TvZ and TvP the past couple of years is Flash. Flash has been the most influential player in the game for years now. As for Savior ZvT is still played with the same general ideas and retains the same rough shape as Savior and his contemporaries left it years ago.
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no offense but this thread is really bad. Few on TL are qualified to know which programers made the biggest differences. This is just basically a list of the most famous players with no explanation to their impact on the scene.
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He introduced a lot of new things, but most of the lasting trends were ones that Flash solidified.
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On March 31 2011 01:45 puppykiller wrote:
fanta made huuuuuge changes to tvz and tvp
You mean iloveoov made huuuuuuge changes to TvZ and TvP and Fantasy used his strategies.
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On March 31 2011 01:48 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 01:45 puppykiller wrote:
fanta made huuuuuge changes to tvz and tvp You mean iloveoov made huuuuuuge changes to TvZ and TvP and Fantasy used his strategies.
Just cuase random people on TL like to spam oov's name in the comments section to every artical that has to do with fantasy doesn't mean they know anything about what goes on in the skt1 house.
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there seems to be a disconnect between the title an the premise. If you want "players who dominated everything and made a name for themselves" than yes, putting every player with 3 or more titles in the 5 star group is a good start. However, when I think influential, I think "who would have made broodwar radically different had they not played?" And the answer is only two, boxer and oov. oov from the "revolutionizing multiple match ups over and over even after retirement" stand point, and boxer from the "there would be no pro BW without me" stand point.
You already have them in the highest bracket, but they are so far more influential than anyone else, that there should be no one else by them.
If you want to classify it as 20 people who would be in a documentary, then I would go with:
the 11 who have won multiple starleauges
the longevity players (yellow, reach, gorush, stork)
grrrr
kim carrier
KeSPA (or if you want a person, the person who organized it/was its first leader)
Maynard
last spot... either another longevity player, or you could argue shark just because of how muta micro is now in nearly every zerg game
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United States10328 Posts
Where are Grrr.... and H.O.T.? I suspect they were influential. And Iris the berserker?
And then some dudes like Goodfriend, FBH (influential for a different reason), ChRh, GGPlay, Chojja, Jju, Casy, Pusan? Not sure how "influential" most of these were, just good players I've heard of lol. Pusan was a "neo-3-king" though, and Chojja was top 2 Zergs in the world for a while.
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On March 31 2011 01:10 HitoriTomoyo wrote:
EDIT: How did I miss Nal_rA. Also moved a few players around.
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
Jaedong
FlaSh (tentative)
Bisu
NaDa
sAviOr
Four Star:
Nal_rA
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
OMG I love you man!!!
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Maybe you could sort the players according to race as well? For me it would be something like this:
Terran:
Boxer
Nada
iloveoov
Flash
Protoss:
Bisu
Nal ra
Stork
Zerg:
Savior
Jaedong
Yellow
Someone with more knowledge could add on to this
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BISU : 941541534534543415143 stars.
God of all.
This is an undisputed fact !
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On March 31 2011 01:54 gongryong wrote:7 Stars: GOD OF (BROOD)WAR
JAEDONG!+ Show Spoiler +
∞ Stars: GOD OF UNIVERSE
Flash
All hail!
EDIT: add shark
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On March 31 2011 01:56 kamikami wrote:
BISU : 941541534534543415143 stars.
God of all.
This is an undisputed fact !
I know this was bound to happen sooner or later!
Long Live Fanboyism! 
buhhy Canada. March 31 2011 02:00 Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 01:54 gongryong wrote:
7 Stars: GOD OF (BROOD)WAR
JAEDONG!
+ Show Spoiler + ∞ Stars: GOD OF UNIVERSE (T)Flash All hail!
flash fans are never known for originality.
and isn't it supposed to be god of THE universe? It's not even proper English, hence void! :p
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OP, you're missing four-stars group in your new list. Maybe you meant four instead of three stars. Or maybe you meant to skip four stars, idk.
Also, Bisu should be 6 stars :p.
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BoxeR is the only one i would consider 5stars
Bisu 4 stars for his pvz
YelloW 4 stars for his awsomeness
Nada 4 stars as well
Flash
Jaedong
Savior
oov
there are probably more
i would list nal_ra, stork, as 3 stars
there are a bunch of other influental progamers, but i dont wanna list them up since there are so many
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On March 31 2011 02:00 gongryong wrote:Show nested quote +buhhy Canada. March 31 2011 02:00 On March 31 2011 01:54 gongryong wrote:
7 Stars: GOD OF (BROOD)WAR
JAEDONG!
+ Show Spoiler + ∞ Stars: GOD OF UNIVERSE (T)Flash All hail! flash fans are never known for originality. and isn't it supposed to be god of THE universe? It's not even proper English, hence void! :p
Lol, I was mocking your post 
Either way, Flash > JD + Bisu combined, Stork is too fail to even be considered.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
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On March 31 2011 00:59 corumjhaelen wrote:
I have an opinion on the matter, like Oov, sAviOr and Flash being the main ones, but importantly enough Midas deserves a rank.
Indeed he does, inventor of the FD terran
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On March 31 2011 02:06 Enervate wrote:
OP, you're missing four-stars group in your new list. Maybe you meant four instead of three stars. Or maybe you meant to skip four stars, idk.
I decided to remove it because it seemed to me that there are rather two different groups than three (unless you want to give certain players 6 stars). I just used 5 and 3 because that's what it was before and I didn't want to confuse anyone.
Right now, it seems that the five-star group is quite accurate (only that most of you don't think July belongs in there and some think that Stork should be added). What I find more confusing is the next level of influential players. It seems that Stork, Reach, Fantasy, Garimto and Kingdom clearly belong in there. And from that point on, I'm rather confused.
// Also I seem to have overlooked Seo Gyung Jong aka. Shark. I guess the second group comes down to Stork, Reach, Fantasy, Garimto, Kingdom, GoRush, EffOrt, XellOs, fOru, Shark.
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On March 31 2011 02:16 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 02:00 gongryong wrote:buhhy Canada. March 31 2011 02:00 On March 31 2011 01:54 gongryong wrote:
7 Stars: GOD OF (BROOD)WAR
JAEDONG!
+ Show Spoiler + ∞ Stars: GOD OF UNIVERSE (T)Flash All hail! flash fans are never known for originality. and isn't it supposed to be god of THE universe? It's not even proper English, hence void! :p Lol, I was mocking your post Either way, Flash > JD + Bisu combined, Stork is too fail to even be considered.
well sorry you failed. :p
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Didn't xellos define modern TvT? He should be higher imo.
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Remove  Kal. Raise Stork to 5--member of Taekbang-Leessang and second best Protoss of all time. fOru is questionable, Midas slightly less so. Add Grrrr..., the original "greatest" player and best foreigner of all time to 3.
On second thought, remove fOru and add TheMarine and  H.O.T-Forever to 3, two early greats that rivaled Grrrr... in 2000. Newer people often neglect the early era.
Finally, replace Midas with ChoJJa, he was #1 Kespa for 4 months and beat sAviOr in an MSL finals during his reign.
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No foreigners at all deserve to be on either list?
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I thought that the "Bisu build pvz" was actually a build that was first used by Daezang... Bisu has never used anything original by himself at all. Everything that he is using hes been copying from other players all the time.
The only thing that he is good at is using the builds to the maximum potential with his mechanics and great multitasking. Stork was and still is more influental as a Protoss than Bisu could ever be.
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On March 31 2011 03:22 Essentia wrote:
No foreigners at all deserve to be on either list?
Maynard
Who else deserves a mention?
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On March 31 2011 03:12 rift wrote:Remove Kal. Raise Stork to 5--member of Taekbang-Leessang and second best Protoss of all time. fOru is questionable, Midas slightly less so. Add Grrrr..., the original "greatest" player and best foreigner of all time to 3. On second thought, remove fOru and add TheMarine and H.O.T-Forever to 3, two early greats that rivaled Grrrr... in 2000. Newer people often neglect the early era. Finally, replace Midas with ChoJJa, he was #1 Kespa for 4 months and beat sAviOr in an MSL finals during his reign.
Sounds great, thanks!
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This is in no particular order. Just giving short reasons why I rank them this way. And there are too many changes I would like to do with OPs list so I will make my own And now there is two lists all of a sudden O.o
5 stars
Boxer: he turned the weakest race at the time to the strongest with his creative strategies. Have also done tremedously for ESPORTS (Starcraft) in general.
Yellow: Don't know much about him, but he must have done something good since he is the second half of Lim-Jin rok
Nada: Perfected SK terran, made the tornado terran, showed everyone the power of strong mechanics.
iloveoov: started the macro revolution. He made Yellow get another silver medal and made Boxer cry. Probably the monst influential progamer since all three races were affected by him. And he still contributes to the Starcraft scene with his coaching.
Reach: Manliness. And for some time he was the only protoss to stand up against the other races. And won an OSL while doing it. The first one to outmacro oov.
Savior: Basically set how ZvT is played to this day. Don't know much about him since I didn't like him much Someone else better fill out!
4 stars
Fantasy: Revived TvZ mech, Valkonic build, fake mech and the fantasy build in tvp. Sure oov had a finger in all of this (which also put oov at 5 stars) but fantasy still popularized them. I belive he also was the first one to use the bio -> mech switch in tvz late game.
Bisu: Revolutionized PvZ. Probably don't need to say much more about him
Jaedong: Made PvZ a nightmare again with his 3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra. Helped bring back 2 hatch muta in ZvT. He probably changed something in zvz as well, can't remember.
Flash: The flash build in TvP (don't know what else to call it  ), is constantly setting new trends in both tvp and tvz.
Xellos: if I remember correctly he introduced the mass dropship play in TvT, making his army very mobile compared to others. Still used by terrans today.
3 stars
Midas: as someone said, inventor of the fake double. Also set some trends in TvZ (if close, bunkerrush. If far, 14cc). I'm sure there was some more but I can't remember.
Shark: for mutastacking..
July: ..for "perfecting" it. First player to win a bo5 vs Oov (and he was a zerg too!). Sauron zerg
Soulkey: The inventor of SK terran (it got his name after him). Don't know if he was an actual progamer or if he did anyting else, that's the reason why he's here.
nal_ra: Same here, don't know if he did anything besides being awesome.
firebathero: ceremonies
Can't really think of anyone else. Someone correct me if the information is false and feel free to teach me some Starcraft lore 
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On March 31 2011 03:28 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 03:22 Essentia wrote:
No foreigners at all deserve to be on either list? Maynard Who else deserves a mention?
Here's my foreigner list in case you're interested: ElkY, Grrrr..., PJ, Lx/Legend, Mondragon, IdrA, NonY/Tyler, White-Ra, Androide, Draco (Legionnaire, Maynard, Froz (Ret, SEn, Testie)).
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Boxer deserves greater than 5 star as he is the only player who thought outside of the box. He actively reached out to the mainstream audience, responsible for almost all Terran strategies (wall in, dropship play, bunker rush, etc), popularizing micro, creating SKT and ACE, and well...professional Broodwar may have never taken off if it were not for Boxer. Boxer is the ONLY gamer in history who can be considered to be a celebrity, a household name.
Reach is not quite at the bonjwa level of influence, but he deserves far more than 3 stars. Reach peaked at a time when literally every single other Protoss were trash. For the stretch of about a year, Reach was the only Protoss who managed to get anywhere (or even qualify for that matter) in the individual leagues. He carried the entire race on his shoulder, alone. Hence, the Hero Protoss.
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10387 Posts
Shark is the greatest behind-the-scenes player of all time. He invented Muta-stacking and Zerg-simcity back when every Zerg was getting raped by 4Gate2Archon. He also helped cohost Hyungjoon, I think Shark deserves an honorary 5-stars
On March 31 2011 03:24 SkelA wrote:
I thought that the "Bisu build pvz" was actually a build that was first used by Daezang... Bisu has never used anything original by himself at all. Everything that he is using hes been copying from other players all the time.
The only thing that he is good at is using the builds to the maximum potential with his mechanics and great multitasking. Stork was and still is more influental as a Protoss than Bisu could ever be.
sounds like a bitter Stork fan to me lol.. Bisu's pioneering extend past Sair-DT (Daezang used a different iteration anyways), he's the one to establish opening Stargate after FE as absolute standard for scouting, and I'm not sure about this but I think Bisu was among the first Protosses to favor going for a mass-Dragoon-Templar midgame. Bisu also recently brought the +1 Sair/Speedlot to the table, which flipped the balance toward Protoss for a while and is now the standard strategy to-go.
Stork deserves 5-stars imo though, he's done a lot of pioneering in PvT (Arbiters, counter to Rax-FE, Carriers) and made some clever one-off builds in PvZ.
Kal I'd give 3-stars because he makes a lot of clever non-standard builds, popularized sair-stacking and has really really good micro
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Many Stork fans are bitter. I certainly am.
Stork just broke Boxer's record of total OSL qualifications. I"m just sayin =S
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I don't think this list is complete without Guillaume Patry. Call it novelty because he's a foreigner who won an OSL, or be old enough to remember all the things he brought to this game, he's a name that comes to everyone's mind when they think of professional BroodWar's beginnings.
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I hadn't followed BW progaming enough to know who's responsible for what, but I would think FBH did something worth 3 stars?
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On March 31 2011 05:06 Sprungjeezy wrote:
I hadn't followed BW progaming enough to know who's responsible for what, but I would think FBH did something worth 3 stars?
A dance-around-saviors-booth ceremony?
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Ra should be 5. Name one PvZ build that doesn't start with forge FE and isn't a cheese.
Never mind. Didn't see that new list.
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I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.
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my addition to your list would be IntoTheRainbow, cuz his shuttle reaver micro in BW was AMAZING, just go youtube it. I think he should be under your 3 star list (only because he got kicked out of SKT cuz he skipped a team meeting to go see a beyonce concert). I also think that your 3 star list should be 4 stars, cuz those players are extremely good.
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I have a suggestion.
How about adding short captions next to each progamer stating what they did under a spoiler bar?
Much better compilation for new BW fans and those who just need a freshened up history lesson
If the posters felt like it, even some VODs that showcase the new build/strategy they are famous/infamous for
Certainly liquapedia is our friend but hey, what's a compilation for?
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On March 31 2011 05:34 Kaal wrote:I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.
I don't think you can put a player no one has even heard of in a list of most influential players. Old Zerg strategy vs Terran used to be expand everywhere and hope some of them survive, but it isn't really what became macro today. Games continued to be about strategy/tactics/micro for a long time after him, so you could almost say he had zero influence, even if he was a precursor to that kind of thinking.
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Not too mention liquapedia is outdated =/
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giyom should be on the list. he pissed off koreans so much that they had to just get better
one guy i'd like to mention is gundam, known for "bamboo rush", it consisted of 1 or 2 vultures, couple marines and a tank. intotherain is another worth mentioning.
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Honestly, Bisu has done so much for the PvZ Matchup. Protoss before Bisu's forge expansion build and its variations were so desperate, they even attempted strategies such as hiding cannons in behind naturals... =.= see Nal_ra vs Saviour. Protoss before Bisu were used to snipe terrans mostly, since PvZ was so hard back then. Bisu changed that, and that's why he's got so many protoss fans, lol, and its not just because of his looks.
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Midas and Fantasy should definitely be more than 3 stars. It seems to me like not enough credit has been given to them for the TvZ late-game mech switch.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Pretty solid list I have to say. I'd put BoxeR in a different league though (maybe 777 stars? ). Sure he wasn't the most skilled progamer looking back but his influence is simply unrivalled.
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You guys forgot Shark. Not the best player, but he did INVENT the stack muta micro. Without it, muta micro would be nowhere where it is today
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I'm surprised of how little credit midas is getting... Tanks anyone?
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On March 31 2011 05:34 Kaal wrote:I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.
True. I mean, he is not called the "Father of Hatcheries" nor "Neverending Hatcheries" for nothing lol
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hmm
5 Stars:
iloveoov - He still influences the scene to this day on with Fantasy and the rest of the SKT lineup
BoxeR - BoxeR defined what e-sports was and is, as well as showing how pushing the envelope works
NaDa - NaDa really refined the way people approach the game, through both preparation and a macro, decision - based style that almost always favors the better player
sAviOr - he started the dynasty of Zergs in Entus and many of his concepts are still used today in ZvT
4 Stars:
Nal_rA - The "Holy Wars" with sAviOr really defined his influence, oh so close to the top, but not quite there. His influence however, with forge openings, remains potent
H-O-T Forever - ViOlet and Stats have proved his ability to shape the game as a coach
Grrr... - Inspiring millions of foreign starcraft fans is reason enough for his inclusion
YellOw - His rivalry with BoxeR still dominates esports memories to this day
Bisu - PvZ Revolution
Jaedong - He has really taken sAviOr's work and has refined it immensely
FlaSh - The nuances in his play shape modern Brood War today
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1019 Posts
most influential of all time?
its obviously boxer. You can argue about who comes after him in terms of influence but the impact boxer had in e-sports in Korea is monumental. he made starcraft exciting to watch, he attracted so many fans, he made e-sports grow in korea.
Ask any young progamer or practice partner of this generation why they went into progaming and a lot of them will say it was because they saw boxer on TV when they were little.
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I think nal_ra, garimto, reach and anytime are the best protoss of all time so far. - 5 stars to all
Terrans to me are boxer, iloveoov, nada and flash - 5 stars to all
Zerg yellow, savior, jaedong, julyzerg - 5 stars to all
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Such a faulty list. Not so much the "5 star" but the "3 star." You're putting Garimto on the same level as foru and Kal? Garimto played such a huge role in defining the direction Protoss players would take.
Also lots of people are missing, especially old schoolers. Giyom, Maynard, St.Eagle, TheMarine, ChRh, Byun, IntoTheRain, JinNam, etc.
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I think boxer should be like 6 stars. Like said previously, his name is a household name.
My parents who dont even know what starcraft is knows Lim Yo Hwan. The name boxer carries is in my opinion, bigger than at least half the names of the celebrities recognized in Korea
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Really don't feel that Kal deserves to be mentioned alongside names like Stork, Fantasy and XellOs. The 4 stars should be reinstated and names like Stork, Kingdom, Fantasy, Reach, July belong there.
imo.
Neither Flash, Jaedong or July has been huge influences like Boxer has been. But Flash and Jaedong are a trillion times more skilled than July ever was. July is a prime 4-star candidate. Perhaps nal_ra too?
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On March 31 2011 07:39 thestool91 wrote:
I think boxer should be like 6 stars. Like said previously, his name is a household name.
My parents who dont even know what starcraft is knows Lim Yo Hwan. The name boxer carries is in my opinion, bigger than at least half the names of the celebrities recognized in Korea
Ever seen those terrans irradiating their SVs and kill stuff? lol yea it was all popularised/created by boxer himself.
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On March 31 2011 07:52 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 07:39 thestool91 wrote:
I think boxer should be like 6 stars. Like said previously, his name is a household name.
My parents who dont even know what starcraft is knows Lim Yo Hwan. The name boxer carries is in my opinion, bigger than at least half the names of the celebrities recognized in Korea Ever seen those terrans irradiating their SVs and kill stuff? lol yea it was all popularised/created by boxer himself.
Terran wall in man, guess who invented it?
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Did anyone mention Maynard from the Maynard transfer?
I dunno, but getting a move assigned to your name that is now considered standard is kind of an achievement.
It´s about influence they had, right? So imho Maynard and maybe Grrrr deserve mention at the very least. They are not boxer, for sure, but Boxer didn´t invent all moves in the game. He invented quite a lot, like mech vs protoss if I remember right.
The inventor of Muta stacking(people here say it was shark, I don´t know) should get on the list too.
Being good at the game is half mechanical and half mindgame but being respected for skill doesn´t mean you influenced anything.
[edit] Just remembered you want the list to be about korean progaming only, more or less. Then you definitely need grrrr in there, he is the only foreigner who won an OSL in korea and he still lives there.
Also Boxer should be definitely solo at the very top. He is the Emperor for a reason. He is the first progamer I heard about.
From his wikipedia entry:
Dubbed The Emperor by his fans, he is the most popular Starcraft player with a fan club of more than 1,000,000 members and a DVD compilation of his greatest games released in South Korea.
Please put the Emperor on a Throne on the list. 1 Star higher than everyone else.
[/edit]
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10387 Posts
On March 31 2011 05:32 bearbuddy wrote:
Ra should be 5. Name one PvZ build that doesn't start with forge FE and isn't a cheese.
Never mind. Didn't see that new list.
?? 10/12 Gate isnt a cheese, 1 Gate expand is viable on certain maps and 1 Gate Tech into expo isn't a cheese either..
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On March 31 2011 07:39 thestool91 wrote:
I think boxer should be like 6 stars. Like said previously, his name is a household name.
My parents who dont even know what starcraft is knows Lim Yo Hwan. The name boxer carries is in my opinion, bigger than at least half the names of the celebrities recognized in Korea
I almost agreed on putting only Him on 6 stars until I realized how he can also influence BW players to switch to SC2 :p.
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On March 31 2011 07:54 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 07:52 thoradycus wrote:On March 31 2011 07:39 thestool91 wrote:
I think boxer should be like 6 stars. Like said previously, his name is a household name.
My parents who dont even know what starcraft is knows Lim Yo Hwan. The name boxer carries is in my opinion, bigger than at least half the names of the celebrities recognized in Korea Ever seen those terrans irradiating their SVs and kill stuff? lol yea it was all popularised/created by boxer himself. Terran wall in man, guess who invented it?
Actually pretty sure this one is false. I think St.Eagle is the actual inventor of the wall. St.Eagle is the ultimate grandfather of TvP, the inventor of metal.
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Grrr... definitely deserves a place at 3 stars, even if he didn't win more than 1 title. After all, he created most of the common strategies we use today, including the gas steal.
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Glad to see people taking note of Midas. His contribution to the game is much greater than his medal count of 0 would indicate.
Kal is kind of a joke though, he has no real place on this list that I can think of.
Effort is also a pretty major stretch at 3.
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This thread is reeking of fanboyism! :D
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On March 31 2011 00:17 NotGood- wrote:
I think Savior should be a 5 star he used to beast all his games, and was a bigger zerg then july. But then again its all just opinion and savior was a match fixer =o.
Well depending on what you mean by "influential", being convicted of match fixing and being given the title of bonjwa are both pretty influential.
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I'd say FBH was pretty influential at one point in time.
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Bisutopia19208 Posts
On March 31 2011 10:33 prototype. wrote:
I'd say FBH was pretty influential at one point in time.
I am going to have to agree. FBH was most influential in the scene outside of his gameplay. He introduced taunting and celebrations and ofc brought the BM in game too. He gave life to the very well known "serious" SC:BW scene.
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Take Fantasy's 3 stars and make Oov have 8....
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Savior should be 5 stars. Definitely. Xellos should be four.
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However this turns out in the end boxer better have one extra star more than anyone else or its inaccurate.
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On March 31 2011 01:41 koreasilver wrote:
What.
The person that has been responsible for being at the forefront of trends in TvZ and TvP the past couple of years is Flash. Flash has been the most influential player in the game for years now. As for Savior ZvT is still played with the same general ideas and retains the same rough shape as Savior and his contemporaries left it years ago.
In my defense, I view FlaSh as more of a perfectionist in the sense that he takes past/present concepts and pushes them to higher limits that no one else has been capable of reaching until he stepped in. After the FlaSh build and helping in (re)popularizing TvZ Mech, I haven't seen FlaSh completely revolutionize any of the TvX MUs in a while.
However I do not deny that he's pretty much the king of BW right now and that alone makes him pretty influential, but again, by no means a revolutionist on the level that BoxeR/oov/Jaedong/Bisu were.
I agree with the sAviOr part, however; for the most part I think sAviOr basically perfected ZvT and everything else used in that MU is pretty much a variation on the BOs/timings that sAviOr/older Zergs (I have no idea how influential YellOw and July really are) innovated/popularized.
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I would say that after oov and boxer, flash is very close to nada for third, and definitely ahead of JD and Bisu.
JD's sucess comes far more from his mechanics and game sense than strategy. He really has just been continuing on with Savior's strats, who copied them from july and so on. Because others can't copy his insane micro (or at least its not something that can be learned simply by watching him) he hasn't made that large of an impact in that area. And he has been equally successful to flash so far.
The bisu build and the perfection of Forge FE certainly is important, but Bisu's strategic contributions is hampered by two things. First that While it is probably the single most important contribution to modern PvZ, he has done nothing for any other matchup, while Flash's 14cc (along with his other contributions) have had impact on all terran MUs. The second is that Bisu didn't invent it, he just perfected it. Danzen was working on it before him, along with a few others like Best. It was a matter of time before it was perfected, and while Bisu deserves a lot of credit, he just made what was going to happen happen faster.
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Boxer and Oov should be far ahead of anyone else, Boxer for being boxer and his shaping of esports as it is today and oov for changing the entire way this game is played taking it from a micro oriented game of cute tricks to a solid management style of play resembling that of today.
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Reach at 3 stars makes me sad.
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boxer should get 6... hes done waaay too much for programming to be lumped with anybody else
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I'm baffled by your list. Anyway, I went down your list to see who you acknowledged and decided to add Giyom and place them corresponding to your 5 star system and their eras in the pro gaming scene as best I cloud (kind of tired):
5 Stars - The Very Best
Giyom (Grrrr...)
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
4 Stars
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
3 Stars
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
2 Stars
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal) (had to edit him to last based off era, but wtf this guy didn't revolutionize anything.. more or less copied -_-)
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On March 31 2011 14:13 StarStruck wrote:
I'm baffled by your list. Anyway, I went down your list to see who you acknowledged and decided to add Giyom and place them corresponding to your 5 star system and their eras in the pro gaming scene as best I cloud (kind of tired):
5 Stars - The Very Best
Giyom (Grrrr...)
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
4 Stars
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
3 Stars
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
2 Stars
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
I agree with most of this except here are my changes:
Doesn't need Stars
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
5 Stars - The Very Best
Giyom (Grrrr...)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
4 Stars
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
3 Stars
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
2 Stars
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Man Stars
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
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I don't think Kal really deserves any star. Is he consistent and good? Perhaps, but not influential.
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Bisutopia19208 Posts
On March 31 2011 13:40 hacklebeast wrote:
I would say that after oov and boxer, flash is very close to nada for third, and definitely ahead of JD and Bisu.
JD's sucess comes far more from his mechanics and game sense than strategy. He really has just been continuing on with Savior's strats, who copied them from july and so on. Because others can't copy his insane micro (or at least its not something that can be learned simply by watching him) he hasn't made that large of an impact in that area. And he has been equally successful to flash so far.
The bisu build and the perfection of Forge FE certainly is important, but Bisu's strategic contributions is hampered by two things. First that While it is probably the single most important contribution to modern PvZ, he has done nothing for any other matchup, while Flash's 14cc (along with his other contributions) have had impact on all terran MUs. The second is that Bisu didn't invent it, he just perfected it. Danzen was working on it before him, along with a few others like Best. It was a matter of time before it was perfected, and while Bisu deserves a lot of credit, he just made what was going to happen happen faster.
You failed to realize that this thread is about influence. And Bisu certainly was the most influential protoss when it came to popularizing amazing PvZ builds. And being the most influential of your race puts you really high up with Boxer and Nada. And while you can argue certain terran and zerg players did more all around, no one has done more then Bisu for protoss. So that is why he merits perfect stars.
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I'm surprised it took so long for Guillame Patry to be mentioned, definitely 5 stars.  V-Gundam is another older player that exerted some influence on the game. The Gundam rush formed the basis of TvP in its prime and later was evolved into the FD build.
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On March 31 2011 14:22 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 13:40 hacklebeast wrote:
I would say that after oov and boxer, flash is very close to nada for third, and definitely ahead of JD and Bisu.
JD's sucess comes far more from his mechanics and game sense than strategy. He really has just been continuing on with Savior's strats, who copied them from july and so on. Because others can't copy his insane micro (or at least its not something that can be learned simply by watching him) he hasn't made that large of an impact in that area. And he has been equally successful to flash so far.
The bisu build and the perfection of Forge FE certainly is important, but Bisu's strategic contributions is hampered by two things. First that While it is probably the single most important contribution to modern PvZ, he has done nothing for any other matchup, while Flash's 14cc (along with his other contributions) have had impact on all terran MUs. The second is that Bisu didn't invent it, he just perfected it. Danzen was working on it before him, along with a few others like Best. It was a matter of time before it was perfected, and while Bisu deserves a lot of credit, he just made what was going to happen happen faster.
You failed to realize that this thread is about influence. And Bisu certainly was the most influential protoss when it came to popularizing amazing PvZ builds. And being the most influential of your race puts you really high up with Boxer and Nada. And while you can argue certain terran and zerg players did more all around, no one has done more then Bisu for protoss. So that is why he merits perfect stars.
No one has ever done, or will ever do, anything that puts them close to boxer.
Bisu has done one thing for one matchup that others had done before him. Just because protoss has less significant figures than terran doesn't diminish what the terrans did. I agree that he is the most important protoss, but there is no rule that the three most influential people must be from each of the three races.
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1-Boxer
2-IloveOov
3-NaDa
4-SaviOr
5-FlasH
5-Jaedong
7-YellOw
4-Stars
8-July
9-Bisu
10-Fantasy
11-Xellos
12Nal_ra
13-Anytime
3Stars
Stork
Kingdom
Hot Forever
ForU
2Stars
Casy
Chojja
GGplay
GoRush
Grrr
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i think oov should be 5 stars. he was basically the "flash" version of his time and arguable the first guy who emphasized the importance of having good macro
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Boxer should be in his own category with 6 stars.
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On March 31 2011 14:43 Terranator wrote:I'm surprised it took so long for Guillame Patry to be mentioned, definitely 5 stars. V-Gundam is another older player that exerted some influence on the game. The Gundam rush formed the basis of TvP in its prime and later was evolved into the FD build.
This guy's right. Bamboo builds used to be so popular and Gundam should definitely be on the list as well.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/2qa8rxx.png)
