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Okay I know there are conspiracy theories and what not but OMFG I'm starting to believe.
I'm watching Kingdom Vs Silent_Control game 3 live right now on Mercury because I'm in Korea and I'm watching on TV. I swear to god that game was so fucking rigged.
When you get to watch it, holy shit people, you will seriously shit yourself.
Here's a list of things to look for.
1. When Kingdom harasses with 4 goons at Controls block consisting of one depot and barrack, control lifts barrack and kingdom puts goons under like a smart play. But then control builds a turret just OUTSIDE his block and Kingdom moves ALL four goons just to kill that one scv making the turret. WTF? He could've won the game. Control only had one tank in his base. Kingdom had 5 more goons coming to reinforce from his main.
2. When Kingdom's mineral only multi is being destroyed near the very end of the game, the probes were in process of mining so therefore they should go through all units, but instead they stayed right next to vultures and when a mine hit a dt it exploded like 10+ probes.
3. If you notice the game seems rigged because the dt comeback from Kingdom makes the crowd go ' Whoa '
4. In the beginning half of the game, silent control goes for 2vult 1 tank drop and he knows he is seen because a goon hits his drop once, but he goes in anyway. Wtf? He didn't even target probes with vults.
Sorry about the first post, I was just so outraged, I usually don't do that.
Discuss.
Edit: Sorry this is game 2. I was watching a re-showing of game 2. Either way, the game was still seemingly rigged.
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The third game is being played already? I thought the newspost said they were being played on Friday?
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can you post a link to the vod here?
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On June 20 2004 23:12 Orlandu wrote:
The third game is being played already? I thought the newspost said they were being played on Friday?
Hmmm, maybe I was misinformed, guess it was game 2. Anyway you should still watch it.
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Canada5062 Posts
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Yes that is the one.
Btw if you don't mind me asking, are you female Mensrea?
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
I watched the vod, and I don't think the game favored Kingdom by as much as people make it out. He just made several little mistakes made more unforgiving by the fact that he went *scouts* (of all things) instead of observers.
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On June 20 2004 23:31 HnR)hT wrote:
I watched the vod, and I don't think the game favored Kingdom by as much as people make it out. He just made several little mistakes made more unforgiving by the fact that he went *scouts* (of all things) instead of observers.
Yes I agree with you, but what I am proposing is that those mistakes he made were on purpose. I strongly debate that they weren't little mistakes however, especially when he had those 4 goons under the lifted barracks. I think scouts were forgiveable because they did ALOT of harass. [ Even the announcers said so ] One of the scouts had 6 kills. I didn't get to see how many the other one got.
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On June 20 2004 23:29 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Yes that is the one.
Btw if you don't mind me asking, are you female Mensrea?
Why don't you PM him and ask him where he's from, what his AKA on BW is.
You know, all that little stuff. If you get the answers, post them on cnn.com please.
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Wtf choboPEon? Why don't you get that stick outta your ass?
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Norway10161 Posts
On June 21 2004 00:30 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Wtf choboPEon? Why don't you get that stick outta your ass?
dude do a search on mensrea's identity threads and you'll discover that everything has been beaten to death and still no information has come out of it.
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Norway10161 Posts
oh and btw there is no rigging in that game because there is no reason to rig it..control and kingdom is on opposing teams.
are anyone else impressed with control, btw?
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as it turned out gong Scouts wasn't all that bad. Look at how much he delayed Control's expansion. However, Kingdom went zealots/dts too late and made a couple of bad moves with his goon army (ie losing most of it without doing much damage) and so he was left with little army when Control moved out.
Too bad
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i dont think it's rigged
leg would've told us 
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I started to think some TV games were rigged when I saw that famous game between Boxer and Garimto on NFZ where Garimto goes for straight arbiter and zealot recall. Boxer doesn't scout Garimto's base during the whole game, not a scan, not a flying barracks, nothing...Otherwise he would have seen the arbiter thing.
Why rig that game? All for the show!
I also think Reach Vs Nal_Ra on Paradoxx might be rigged, Reach goes straight for dark archons and Ra doen's scout either. Even Boxer vs Joyo on Paradoxx could be rigged, Joyo played like shit at the end, he let Boxer win.
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The games were rigged. Kingdom, NaDa, ILoveOOv, and XellOs would never make such serious mistakes all in the same night if they were trying.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On June 21 2004 03:08 Aqeloutro wrote:
I started to think some TV games were rigged when I saw that famous game between Boxer and Garimto on NFZ where Garimto goes for straight arbiter and zealot recall. Boxer doesn't scout Garimto's base during the whole game, not a scan, not a flying barracks, nothing...Otherwise he would have seen the arbiter thing.
Why rig that game? All for the show!
I also think Reach Vs Nal_Ra on Paradoxx might be rigged, Reach goes straight for dark archons and Ra doen's scout either. Even Boxer vs Joyo on Paradoxx could be rigged, Joyo played like shit at the end, he let Boxer win.
If you saw Joyo's face after the match, you know it wasn't rigged. :o
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If I had to lose one game on purpose on the TV my face would look quite fucked up too xD.
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Joyo's game wasn't rigged, rofl
Regarding the last OGN matches, I think there was enough reason for the OGN producers to ask the players to play like shit, but still, I wouldn't have done it because there is money, pride and record involved. I don't think they were rigged.
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a couple of mistakes are played, and people always claim this :p This isn't like losing to a teammate so you both go through, its possibly throwing away a semi final spot. I highly doubt its rigged, much more likely they had a bad day.. i mean, it does happen :p
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On June 21 2004 03:19 SoL.Origin wrote:I wouldn't have done it because there is money
Absolutely the opposite, you would do it because there is money...you do want they want or you don't get paid.
EDIT: And I don't say games are rigged to make one person win or lose, games are rigged to make the show more appealing...more fun to watch.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 20 2004 23:09 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Okay I know there are conspiracy theories and what not but OMFG I'm starting to believe.
I'm watching Kingdom Vs Silent_Control game 3 live right now on Mercury because I'm in Korea and I'm watching on TV. I swear to god that game was so fucking rigged.
When you get to watch it, holy shit people, you will seriously shit yourself.
Here's a list of things to look for.
1. When Kingdom harasses with 4 goons at Controls block consisting of one depot and barrack, control lifts barrack and kingdom puts goons under like a smart play. But then control builds a turret just OUTSIDE his block and Kingdom moves ALL four goons just to kill that one scv making the turret. WTF? He could've won the game. Control only had one tank in his base. Kingdom had 5 more goons coming to reinforce from his main.
2. When Kingdom's mineral only multi is being destroyed near the very end of the game, the probes were in process of mining so therefore they should go through all units, but instead they stayed right next to vultures and when a mine hit a dt it exploded like 10+ probes.
3. If you notice the game seems rigged because the dt comeback from Kingdom makes the crowd go ' Whoa '
4. In the beginning half of the game, silent control goes for 2vult 1 tank drop and he knows he is seen because a goon hits his drop once, but he goes in anyway. Wtf? He didn't even target probes with vults.
Sorry about the first post, I was just so outraged, I usually don't do that.
Discuss.
Edit: Sorry this is game 2. I was watching a re-showing of game 2. Either way, the game was still seemingly rigged.
I've seen it. You are stupid (^_____^). Seriously, Kingdom probably targeted the scv making turret by mistake, control was busy trying to ruin kingdoms goons since he knew there was no obs around.
Dark Templar come back almost worked, the probes were trying to kill the mine (I do that a lot of the time -.- Like surround the mine with probes so that they can kill it.
Kingdom was showing off. End of story.
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On June 21 2004 03:15 Aqeloutro wrote:
If I had to lose one game on purpose on the TV my face would look quite fucked up too xD.
You can't script stuff like that - it was real.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 03:10 x[ReaPeR]x wrote:
The games were rigged. Kingdom, NaDa, ILoveOOv, and XellOs would never make such serious mistakes all in the same night if they were trying.
NaDa didn't make ANY mistakes. How about you fend off 2 forward gates on Requiem using 1 rax M&M in the start, while being 2 probe harassed?
Zeus has lost 1 PvT before losing to OOv, either to boxer or nada. Xellos would never charge a ramp only to find hydras at the top? Are you fucking dumb? -_-
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no. no and no.. you have all got it backwards, sure there is a conspiracy, but its only against us using liquibet! who ever is in control of liquibet saw that a shit load of our predictions would go down the drain last week if there were a "few" upsets.. so they sent drone to korea with the private Team Liquid rocket to tamper with the players water bottles, if you watch the kingdom game closely you can see drone in the audience with a evil smile for a split second before the game starts..
so, there you have it folks, and remember, the truth is out there..
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that would explain why i got 3/4.
CONSPIRACY. KINGDOM > CONTROL. GIVE MY 1 POINT BACK
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
There is no conspiracy. Anyone who saw the look on Kingdom's face at the end could tell you he did not throw that game.
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What do you guys think, Kingdom is going to be laughing or something at the end, if they rigged the game?
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On June 21 2004 03:58 FrozenArbiter wrote: Show nested quote +On June 20 2004 23:09 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Okay I know there are conspiracy theories and what not but OMFG I'm starting to believe.
I'm watching Kingdom Vs Silent_Control game 3 live right now on Mercury because I'm in Korea and I'm watching on TV. I swear to god that game was so fucking rigged.
When you get to watch it, holy shit people, you will seriously shit yourself.
Here's a list of things to look for.
1. When Kingdom harasses with 4 goons at Controls block consisting of one depot and barrack, control lifts barrack and kingdom puts goons under like a smart play. But then control builds a turret just OUTSIDE his block and Kingdom moves ALL four goons just to kill that one scv making the turret. WTF? He could've won the game. Control only had one tank in his base. Kingdom had 5 more goons coming to reinforce from his main.
2. When Kingdom's mineral only multi is being destroyed near the very end of the game, the probes were in process of mining so therefore they should go through all units, but instead they stayed right next to vultures and when a mine hit a dt it exploded like 10+ probes.
3. If you notice the game seems rigged because the dt comeback from Kingdom makes the crowd go ' Whoa '
4. In the beginning half of the game, silent control goes for 2vult 1 tank drop and he knows he is seen because a goon hits his drop once, but he goes in anyway. Wtf? He didn't even target probes with vults.
Sorry about the first post, I was just so outraged, I usually don't do that.
Discuss.
Edit: Sorry this is game 2. I was watching a re-showing of game 2. Either way, the game was still seemingly rigged. I've seen it. You are stupid (^_____^). Seriously, Kingdom probably targeted the scv making turret by mistake, control was busy trying to ruin kingdoms goons since he knew there was no obs around. Dark Templar come back almost worked, the probes were trying to kill the mine (I do that a lot of the time -.- Like surround the mine with probes so that they can kill it. Kingdom was showing off. End of story.
Um no, you're stupid and also wrong. I'm not a progamer but I will assure you that I don't move away from being under a floating with FOUR goons just to kill one scv making a turret that is ZERO threat to me. Given that same situation I'm 100% sure I could've won that. The four goons halfway in his base with only one tank and scvs and 5 more goons or so coming.
Wtf are you stupid? Why would you attack mines with probes if dts can kill it in one hit, and there WAS a dt, why would you prevent the dt from killing it in one hit? If the probes kept on mining they would've just gone straight to Kingdom's main clearing the way for the dt to just slash the mine before it burrowed. [ And the dt had ADEQUATE time to do so ]
' Seriously, Kingdom probably targeted the scv making turret by mistake, control was busy trying to ruin kingdoms goons since he knew there was no obs around. '
So he built a turret?
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Sweden33719 Posts
When the goons backed out of main to kill scv, probably miss click on SCV, k?
Maybe, just maybe he made a lot of mistakes =[ Paranoid people so fun -_-
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On June 21 2004 03:08 Aqeloutro wrote:
I started to think some TV games were rigged when I saw that famous game between Boxer and Garimto on NFZ where Garimto goes for straight arbiter and zealot recall. Boxer doesn't scout Garimto's base during the whole game, not a scan, not a flying barracks, nothing...Otherwise he would have seen the arbiter thing.
Why rig that game? All for the show!
I also think Reach Vs Nal_Ra on Paradoxx might be rigged, Reach goes straight for dark archons and Ra doen's scout either. Even Boxer vs Joyo on Paradoxx could be rigged, Joyo played like shit at the end, he let Boxer win.
I'm assuiming your joking, and it wasn't either smart or funny.
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My opinion on ' Conspiracy theory ' is that * MAYBE * they are doing something similar to wrestling on tv, yes that WWE gay crap. The skill is there but it's all for show.
It's not completely wrong to say that OGN could've told team managers to make sure that all records were 1-1 so there would be a maximum number of game 3's.
On June 21 2004 05:07 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
There is no conspiracy. Anyone who saw the look on Kingdom's face at the end could tell you he did not throw that game.
I watched on TV, so that means my view was clear and not the usual VOD quality, this means I saw his face clearly and I saw nothing in Kingdom's face that you don't regularly see in a face that lost a game of that caliber. It's not hard to make a face like that if you threw the game because ONE you agreed to throw it unwillingly and two if you didn't something bad might've happened.
This is all * Presuming * but I've given alot of good evidence. At least watch the VOD again and comment on the game, not on the look of people's faces.
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On June 21 2004 05:21 FrozenArbiter wrote:
When the goons backed out of main to kill scv, probably miss click on SCV, k?
Maybe, just maybe he made a lot of mistakes =[ Paranoid people so fun -_-
Ok Frozen seriously, pause the VOD when it gets 4 goons under barracks plz. First of all WHY WOULD THE GOONS BACK OUT TO KILL A SCV BUILDING A T-U-R-R-E-T ? When they clearly could've gone into main!
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On June 21 2004 03:50 Aqeloutro wrote:
EDIT: And I don't say games are rigged to make one person win or lose, games are rigged to make the show more appealing...more fun to watch.
like the NBA. i dont even think "rig" is the best word. i think "help" is. u just "help" increase the chance that it will be exciting, increase popularity of the program, the fan base, etc., more viewers = mo money. obviously just rigging the outcome doesn't necessarily do this, but select "helpage" certainly will.
On June 21 2004 03:58 amat wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 03:15 Aqeloutro wrote:
If I had to lose one game on purpose on the TV my face would look quite fucked up too xD. You can't script stuff like that - it was real.
remember the nal_ra vs oov or whatever, game1? the one that was given english subscripts? it is almost more feasable to believe that the game was rigged than to believe oov would intentionally let himself be photoned just to try to fend off zeal/photon with vulture/scv. maybe if we look more closely at the micro of nal_ra we can see how the fuck the vulture just didn't get killed... was he holding back to make sure oov did an "amazing thing" in a completely irrational situation? or is there just nothing better for terran do do on requiem?
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I haven't watched the game, but I've always thought the games were rigged. They can just send messages over the headphones to rig the games. Boxer, etc., would always drop just as an expo comes online.
I haven't watched the game in question though.
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Watch the game in question. It's pretty fucked up.
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wtf-_-; games are not rigged-_-;; omfg
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On June 21 2004 05:28 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 03:50 Aqeloutro wrote:
EDIT: And I don't say games are rigged to make one person win or lose, games are rigged to make the show more appealing...more fun to watch. like the NBA. i dont even think "rig" is the best word. i think "help" is. u just "help" increase the chance that it will be exciting, increase popularity of the program, the fan base, etc., more viewers = mo money. obviously just rigging the outcome doesn't necessarily do this, but select "helpage" certainly will. Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 03:58 amat wrote: On June 21 2004 03:15 Aqeloutro wrote:
If I had to lose one game on purpose on the TV my face would look quite fucked up too xD. You can't script stuff like that - it was real. remember the nal_ra vs oov or whatever, game1? the one that was given english subscripts? it is almost more feasable to believe that the game was rigged than to believe oov would intentionally let himself be photoned just to try to fend off zeal/photon with vulture/scv. maybe if we look more closely at the micro of nal_ra we can see how the fuck the vulture just didn't get killed... was he holding back to make sure oov did an "amazing thing" in a completely irrational situation? or is there just nothing better for terran do do on requiem?
Yeah I think that's the correct way to put it. OGN is * Helping * the ratings and the fans by having more matches. Seriously, it's VERY hard to believe all those giants would lose on the same night in same 1-0 situations and all the other things that have happened, are coincedence
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 05:28 amat wrote:
I haven't watched the game, but I've always thought the games were rigged. They can just send messages over the headphones to rig the games. Boxer, etc., would always drop just as an expo comes online.
I haven't watched the game in question though.
Yeah well duh, maybe it's because he scans like a madman and reads people perfectly  ?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 05:24 Abyss_Bahamut wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 05:21 FrozenArbiter wrote:
When the goons backed out of main to kill scv, probably miss click on SCV, k?
Maybe, just maybe he made a lot of mistakes =[ Paranoid people so fun -_- Ok Frozen seriously, pause the VOD when it gets 4 goons under barracks plz. First of all WHY WOULD THE GOONS BACK OUT TO KILL A SCV BUILDING A T-U-R-R-E-T ? When they clearly could've gone into main!
M I S S
C L I C K?
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lol yeah it's all a big conspiracy, the ogn announcers tell the players what to do in advance and in reality we are much better players than all the so called "pro's"
it all started when smuft became pro..
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Sweden33719 Posts
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On June 21 2004 05:49 GroT wrote:
lol yeah it's all a big conspiracy, the ogn announcers tell the players what to do in advance and in reality we are much better players than all the so called "pro's"
it all started when smuft became pro..
Unless you have inferiority complex or HIGHLY doubt your skills, I'm sure even you could've won in the situation that I previously described. Hell I'm sure ANY decent teamliquidian could win if they had 4 goons under a terran's block and terran only had a tank. Oh yeah, scroll up the map, 5 more goons for you, yay?
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On June 21 2004 05:44 FrozenArbiter wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 05:24 Abyss_Bahamut wrote: On June 21 2004 05:21 FrozenArbiter wrote:
When the goons backed out of main to kill scv, probably miss click on SCV, k?
Maybe, just maybe he made a lot of mistakes =[ Paranoid people so fun -_- Ok Frozen seriously, pause the VOD when it gets 4 goons under barracks plz. First of all WHY WOULD THE GOONS BACK OUT TO KILL A SCV BUILDING A T-U-R-R-E-T ? When they clearly could've gone into main! M I S S C L I C K?
Oh a miss click. Yep very clear now. It was also a MISS TYPE on the keyboard when Control pushed out of his base with sieged tanks and Kingdoms goons were in range and held position instead of running.
Also a MISS COMMAND ISSUE when he told probes to stay near mines. Also a miss click by all the other pro players today who lost their 1-0 lead.
Damn mice.
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well i guess the games could get rigged. seeing that for example wrestling is rigged like hell and in italia allot of football games are rigged by the mafia so it could happen with progaming
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Sweden33719 Posts
He was toying. None of the other games were suspect
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Well I'm not stating that the games are rigged, but I really started to think about it when I saw that Boxer vs Garimto. Going straitgh for a Zealot recall without Boxer scouting Garimto's base even once in the whole game is very suspicious to me.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 06:09 Aqeloutro wrote:
Well I'm not stating that the games are rigged, but I really started to think about it when I saw that Boxer vs Garimto. Going straitgh for a Zealot recall without Boxer scouting Garimto's base even once in the whole game is very suspicious to me.
Actually, that's the way boxer plays it on island maps. He goes for CC -> Rax, Rax with M&M, into metal.. It makes for very late scouting of highground indeed ~_~
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conspiracy theories for president
so funny to read
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first off, this SHOULD be the only game that seems to be rigged. Kingdom's pvt is off the charts right now and silent control sucks big fat donkey nuts, he can win whenever the hell he chooses against him -- so adding a 3rd game doesnt mean shit.
the other matchups probably werent rigged. zeus is so good at pvt that letting oov rope him in would be stupid, same goes for reach and even julyzerg -- who is on a fucking tear lately.
although, i guess if ogn is paying the players off, anything is possible.
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the players obviously got money for loosing on purpose.
i think this is maybe even more obvious on nadas game. remember that game vs yellow that everyone was quite clear of that it was rigged. he just ran out with his marines in the lurker field without medics and died hardcore. this time he went out before he had medics and died hardcore.
its obvious nada doesnt like this kind of rigged games, and makes his best to show the world (korea) that he's not trying at all, and so that some people may figure out he's getting payed to lose.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Dumb, he was trying to catch toss before goons with scv marine =[
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youre just denying the truth :OO
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 07:39 lastas wrote:
youre just denying the truth :OO
Illuminati was in on this :O
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm not sure what it is you mean to say with that pic :O
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Of course I didn't mean the whole game, but the whole game BEFORE seeing the arbiter not after...
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On June 21 2004 07:49 FrozenArbiter wrote: I'm not sure what it is you mean to say with that pic :O
It's FP view of boxer, showing garimto's main has been scanned
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By the way, did you read my signature? It means: "I am not a genius, neither you are"
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On June 21 2004 07:48 FrozenArbiter wrote: Illuminati was in on this :O
ahahahaha lol
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 07:50 Aqeloutro wrote: Of course I didn't mean the whole game, but the whole game BEFORE seeing the arbiter not after...
Tech was in a remote part of base. Main had probably been scanned as soon as scanner completed (however, you can't scan too much since he needs it for anti dt drop!)
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"Of course I didn't mean the whole game, but the whole game BEFORE seeing the arbiter not after..."
We don't really know when he scanned it, so...
"By the way, did you read my signature? It means: "I am not a genius, neither you are""
.
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United States12235 Posts
Oh great the conspiracy theorists are moving over to progaming now =(
Not rigged. Remember these people are getting paid to win, unlike WWE or even the NBA (which doesn't have players throwing games but rather suspicious ref calls) where they get a large cash contract. Some people have off days, some people set themselves up for better bracket position, and some people are just better.
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On June 21 2004 08:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Oh great the conspiracy theorists are moving over to progaming now =(
Not rigged. Remember these people are getting paid to win, unlike WWE or even the NBA (which doesn't have players throwing games but rather suspicious ref calls) where they get a large cash contract. Some people have off days, some people set themselves up for better bracket position, and some people are just better.
what if they were payed just to lose those games, so ogn could have a full broadcast schedule, which probably makes them alot of money.
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or maybe they are playing a computer game badly for once? Im more inclined to believe they are throwing games to mess up the liquibet than these conspiracy theories :p If they wanted it to last longer, they could make the group stage longer/have more groups, thus gaining more air time etc. No need to get games thrown. I believe players might throw games to get someone knocked out in a tie position, or to give a teammate a win, but not what you guys are suggesting :p
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On June 21 2004 03:13 Klogon wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 03:08 Aqeloutro wrote:
I started to think some TV games were rigged when I saw that famous game between Boxer and Garimto on NFZ where Garimto goes for straight arbiter and zealot recall. Boxer doesn't scout Garimto's base during the whole game, not a scan, not a flying barracks, nothing...Otherwise he would have seen the arbiter thing.
Why rig that game? All for the show!
I also think Reach Vs Nal_Ra on Paradoxx might be rigged, Reach goes straight for dark archons and Ra doen's scout either. Even Boxer vs Joyo on Paradoxx could be rigged, Joyo played like shit at the end, he let Boxer win. If you saw Joyo's face after the match, you know it wasn't rigged. :o
If you watch the game you just see Boxer's superiority come out, and that's why he won. His micro was untouchable that game.
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On June 21 2004 06:09 Aqeloutro wrote:
Well I'm not stating that the games are rigged, but I really started to think about it when I saw that Boxer vs Garimto. Going straitgh for a Zealot recall without Boxer scouting Garimto's base even once in the whole game is very suspicious to me.
boxer scanned his base and saw a ton of zealots, but not the arbiter. if he knew about recall, he would have made bats + bunkers. also, boxer has done a double command bionic strategy before against reach in sky 2k2 finals
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On June 21 2004 09:47 benzoic-acid wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 06:09 Aqeloutro wrote:
Well I'm not stating that the games are rigged, but I really started to think about it when I saw that Boxer vs Garimto. Going straitgh for a Zealot recall without Boxer scouting Garimto's base even once in the whole game is very suspicious to me. boxer scanned his base and saw a ton of zealots, but not the arbiter. if he knew about recall, he would have made bats + bunkers. also, boxer has done a double command bionic strategy before against reach in sky 2k2 finals
[Joke] Maybe that game was rigged too!  [/joke]
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Guys, people aren't saying the games are rigged because those guys lost, it's the WAY that all of them played really stupid and got owned.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 10:02 benzoic-acid wrote:
Guys, people aren't saying the games are rigged because those guys lost, it's the WAY that all of them played really stupid and got owned.
*1 of them.
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Why do you act as if all pro gamers are going to be perfect and make all the right judgements on things? Maybe KingDom didnt think he had enough time to kill the mine with the dt and tried to get it with the probes or something. But no, it must be a conspiracy of players purposely losing, why the hell would they? They get money, hot korean women etc for winning. They don't exactly gain much.
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If its a best of 3 series, 3rd game = more money?
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everyone ho disagres is obviously part of the conspiracy!
argument 1 - they would win for money! the whole idea of rigging is that u pay someone to do what u say, so its profitable for them to help rig it! even tho they dont "get the prize"! think before u post please. prize money doesnt prove there's no rigging.. omg.
argument 2 - i dont remember but the one above is enough for me to say. but trust me, there was a second one.
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well....
Lets suppose kingdom decides not to throw the game. OGN wouldnt threaten him with anything. They cant, they wouldnt take out one of the 5 best players in the world (yes, kingdom is right now along with oov, nada, reach and ra) just to prove a point to the other gamers -- fans would have none of that.
So if kingdom were to throw a game, the only possibility is that OGN made it worth his while to give up the possibility of winning the starleague (because playing control a 3rd game is somewhat dangerous, a bo1 against the world's biggest cheeser)
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Ok i have seen the VOD
Kingdom plays abstractly (using 2 scouts for harass very early on) and you will notice that throughout many battles, Kingdom targets Turrets and SCV's building Turrets w/ his dragoons so that the scouts and continue to harass.
Its very unorthodox, but its NOT a rigged game AT ALL. I'm not sure why anyone would think it, considering how poorly silent_control played. He didn't really play terribly, but he was just a bit off throughout the entire game. He even forgot an academy for DT's. Its not like the DT's would have brought a comeback anyways. Control had so many turrets in his main from the scouts, there was no possibility of a counter attack. Plus, Silent_control had already completely fucked over Kingdom at that point in time anyways.
so
its not a rigged game
a very fun one to watch tho ^^; I highly recommend dling it
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so lets see. a guy goes scouts to dts, the toss has goons inside but forgets to keep them in there and keep the rax from landing when he has 5 goons outside vs 1 tank (according to the other guy), then the terran forgets to get an academy while the toss switches to dts.. i dunno why u think those facts should convince u theres no way it was rigged. im not saying its rigged im just saying ur argument doesnt seem compelling 2 me
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MURICA15980 Posts
They probably aren't rigged. This late into the tournament, each of them have high ambitions and they all hope to win the OGN title, which is like 20 grand. Unless you can give them a crap load of money to even compare with the posibility of losing that 20 grand, there's no way a player like oov or kingdom would throw the match.
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Alright, He goes Scouts and Dts... So everyone is freaking out over him killing a TURRET? Hmm it would seem to me that turrets are a pain in the ass against both of those things.
Woot
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 21 2004 12:23 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
so lets see. a guy goes scouts to dts, the toss has goons inside but forgets to keep them in there and keep the rax from landing when he has 5 goons outside vs 1 tank (according to the other guy), then the terran forgets to get an academy while the toss switches to dts.. i dunno why u think those facts should convince u theres no way it was rigged. im not saying its rigged im just saying ur argument doesnt seem compelling 2 me
One more thing, he had no way of knowing if it was shock full with mines there since control had just vult dropped :/
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It isn't "rigged" to anyone's favour. Kingdom simply decided to "wow" the crowd with his impressive Scott harass, unfortunately things did not work out as he expected. He was playing around with Control. He will win the third game for sure however.
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Is there proof that there has been a rigged game ever?
And btw, don't you think the progamers would stop playing if they played rigged games? Some people might stay for the money, but c'mon, these guys practice 10 h a day... why waste that time if they know they are gonna play some rigged games also?...
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On June 21 2004 00:30 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Wtf choboPEon? Why don't you get that stick outta your ass?
it was a joke. you didn't get it. relax, buddy.
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Hmm mebe he saw the turret and went like "OMFG HE THINK HE CAN BUILD IT THERE?! I WILL SHOW HIM!!" so he went over for the ez kill ;D
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Milzo
France656 Posts
A secret CIA memo mentions that Kingdom has just purchased a Ferrari for himself and a huge diamond ring for his GF. He bought these things YESTERDAY. The game was rigged!!! I told you so!!!
^^
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On June 21 2004 17:38 Milzo wrote:
A secret CIA memo mentions that Kingdom has just purchased a Ferrari for himself and a huge diamond ring for his GF. He bought these things YESTERDAY. The game was rigged!!! I told you so!!!
^^
w..t..f..? You are kidding right? This is pathetic. One SEMIFINAL sc game doesn't even come close to a Ferrari....or any car for that matter.
...
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Sweden33719 Posts
Semifinals does guarantee you like what? 5k? Winning gives you 20k or so o_O You can buy a car with that money : D
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On June 21 2004 18:03 Cambium wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 17:38 Milzo wrote:
A secret CIA memo mentions that Kingdom has just purchased a Ferrari for himself and a huge diamond ring for his GF. He bought these things YESTERDAY. The game was rigged!!! I told you so!!!
^^ w..t..f..? You are kidding right? This is pathetic. One SEMIFINAL sc game doesn't even come close to a Ferrari....or any car for that matter. ...
of course he's kidding, halfwit
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First of all, sorry to Chobopeon, I wasn't really informed previously on Mensrea identification attempts.
Second of all, wow I just want to say stfu plz to all the people who were talking about those other games. Those were definitely not * helped * [ I'm going to avoid using the word rigged here ] I've watched those games and they were all reasonable mistakes.
Also a HUGE SHUT THE FUCK UP goes to the people who say he was using the goons to kill the turret because of scouts or dts. First of all, when the four goons were UNDER the barracks, Kingdom didn't even HAVE scouts, hell he probably didn't even warp his Stargate halfway by then.
I'm telling you if you fucking watch it and have a open mind you will see that it's FUCKING suspicious for him to move 4 goons away from victory. The SCOUTS if you were fucking watching and not saying, omfg bullshit no rigging, came AFTER the initial block harass. They heleped prevent Control from expanding to his nat.
Rebanned, your post was so fucking stupid, here it is.
Alright, He goes Scouts and Dts... So everyone is freaking out over him killing a TURRET? Hmm it would seem to me that turrets are a pain in the ass against both of those things.
Woot
Um, wtf you moron. Did you even watch the VOD? The dts came during the last 2-3 minutes of the game in a desparate attempt by Kingdom to save himself. Control was halfway up the fucking map. The turret that I was talking about before was the one Control built at his BLOCK I.E. ENTRANCE when the only attacking units on the map were tanks and goons.
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On June 21 2004 14:39 TanGo wrote:
Is there proof that there has been a rigged game ever?
Hmmmmm...
Nada vs Elky, Panasonic OGN Starleague
Nada vs Yellow, Mycube OGN Starlegue
Not concrete evidence, but if mensrea says they were rigged they probably were :p
Link to Mycube OGN Starleague report by mensrea:
MyCube OGN Starleague - Week 4 RESULTS!!!
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On June 21 2004 19:12 Tiger- wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 14:39 TanGo wrote:
Is there proof that there has been a rigged game ever?
Hmmmmm... Nada vs Elky, Panasonic OGN Starleague Nada vs Yellow, Mycube OGN Starlegue Not concrete evidence, but if mensrea says they were rigged they probably were :p Link to Mycube OGN Starleague report by mensrea: MyCube OGN Starleague - Week 4 RESULTS!!!
I know about NaDa vs YellOw, but NaDa vs Elky? What happened there?
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On June 21 2004 12:23 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
so lets see. a guy goes scouts to dts, the toss has goons inside but forgets to keep them in there and keep the rax from landing when he has 5 goons outside vs 1 tank (according to the other guy), then the terran forgets to get an academy while the toss switches to dts.. i dunno why u think those facts should convince u theres no way it was rigged. im not saying its rigged im just saying ur argument doesnt seem compelling 2 me
Of course, it's the job of the people claiming that the game was rigged to provide sufficient evidence and sound arguments, not of the skeptics to disprove their claim .
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 21 2004 20:03 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 19:12 Tiger- wrote: On June 21 2004 14:39 TanGo wrote:
Is there proof that there has been a rigged game ever?
Hmmmmm... Nada vs Elky, Panasonic OGN Starleague Nada vs Yellow, Mycube OGN Starlegue Not concrete evidence, but if mensrea says they were rigged they probably were :p Link to Mycube OGN Starleague report by mensrea: MyCube OGN Starleague - Week 4 RESULTS!!! I know about NaDa vs YellOw, but NaDa vs Elky? What happened there?
NaDa threw a game vs Elky to avoid playing Boxer in the next round
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somebody obviously hacked in that game, obviously!..!!!
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but you gotta admit.. every undefeated player getting beat common I think some people higher up mightof had them throw some games to raise peoples intrest
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Milzo
France656 Posts
On June 21 2004 18:55 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Also a HUGE SHUT THE FUCK UP goes to the people who say he was using the goons to kill the turret because of scouts or dts. First of all, when the four goons were UNDER the barracks, Kingdom didn't even HAVE scouts, hell he probably didn't even warp his Stargate halfway by then.
Hum, no. Just after the "battle of the four goons", focus changes to Kingdom's base, and we can see a fully completed Stargate with a Scout on top of it, + another one being researched (8'30" in the VOD).
I think that Kingdom had a quick decision to make, it's that simple. Maybe he could have entered Control's base but he backed off seeing a dozen SCVs ready to pwn the four goons' asses with the support of a fresh tank just popping out of the factory closest to the wall-in. I don't think that Kingdom would have dealt much damage with these four goons, and an additionnal force of five goons was indeed "on the way" but still far from Control's base. Kingdom's decision seems all the more reasonable since he had invested a lot of money in Stargate+Scouts, so he needed to keep his units alive, in order to keep delaying Control's expansion and macro (he's late on his expanding and knows he has to warp in two expansions and make a lot of probes in the next few minutes).
Kingdom lost because he didn't research speed for his zealots / didn't have enough zealots when Control pushed, not because he didn't try to push his advantage with those four goons.
I rest my case.
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Like it or not Sports such as SC can become serious, w/e the deal Rigs can happen and underground trade/money etc.
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Milzo
France656 Posts
On a more general note, it's loser's choice for the map on the second game, right?
So it's not that surprising to see P>T on Requiem and Nostalgia, and Z>T on Namja Iyagi (Kingdom vs Control discussed above ^^).
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i got to page 2 and had to stop.
u people are stupid.
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Milzo
France656 Posts
If I'm OGN and I want to put more games on TV, I don't bribe/threaten gamers, I make the quarterfinals best of 5 instead of best of 3.
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Advertisers, if making money is involved, will do anything.
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If I was Kingdom, I wouldn't rig a game like that unless OGN gives me something like $1,000,000,000.
And obviously OGN doesn't have that much money, so over. OVER with this stupid conspiracy theory or whatever.
If Kingdom or Control somehow gets to read these threads, they will not throw the game, but will throw up
About that Kingdom game, he got harassed a lot by 2-Tank drops on his expansion (killing 7~8 Probes) and 4-Vulture drops on his main (killing another 7~8 Probes). That makes only one multi get going. And he decides to control the Scouts just in order to stop those Dropship harassments and couldn't macro well.
While that was going on, Control was getting a lot of Factories, even bypassing Academy. See that he didn't have scans? He just didn't go Academy. He didn't want to waste resources on that.
Kingdom also was going fast DT while fast multi, which of course will not give him enough time to speedup his Zealots. He simply didn't have that timing. And Control comes out with a group or more of Tanks, while he didn't have enough Zealots to face them. No Shuttles either becuase he didn't go Robotics. He couldn't get back either, because if he gets back, his natural and 3rd multi will get raped by Tanks on natural and Vultures on 3rd multi. (He did't have enough minerals to build Cannons)
And that ends the game. Control made such a perfect timing to attack, and he attacked.
Kingdom had been always wasting units on the opponent if he thinks that is needed. That's how he lost to Sunny on MTL, where he moves like 2 groups of Zealots to Sunny's Vultures and all of them gets killed, doing nothing.
Kingdom's PvT superiority comes from Carriers, and he didn't go Carriers. And that was end of the story.
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On June 21 2004 20:33 Milzo wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 18:55 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Also a HUGE SHUT THE FUCK UP goes to the people who say he was using the goons to kill the turret because of scouts or dts. First of all, when the four goons were UNDER the barracks, Kingdom didn't even HAVE scouts, hell he probably didn't even warp his Stargate halfway by then.
Hum, no. Just after the "battle of the four goons", focus changes to Kingdom's base, and we can see a fully completed Stargate with a Scout on top of it, + another one being researched (8'30" in the VOD). I think that Kingdom had a quick decision to make, it's that simple. Maybe he could have entered Control's base but he backed off seeing a dozen SCVs ready to pwn the four goons' asses with the support of a fresh tank just popping out of the factory closest to the wall-in. I don't think that Kingdom would have dealt much damage with these four goons, and an additionnal force of five goons was indeed "on the way" but still far from Control's base. Kingdom's decision seems all the more reasonable since he had invested a lot of money in Stargate+Scouts, so he needed to keep his units alive, in order to keep delaying Control's expansion and macro (he's late on his expanding and knows he has to warp in two expansions and make a lot of probes in the next few minutes). Kingdom lost because he didn't research speed for his zealots / didn't have enough zealots when Control pushed, not because he didn't try to push his advantage with those four goons. I rest my case.
It's funny how you know what he was thinking.
There is no excuse that you can come up with that will make me change my thoughts on the 4 goon situation.
As you said, the first scout was finished, I admit that. But what you failed to see was that with 4 goons under a barracks vs a tank with only 4 scvs CLOSE enough to start repairing it [ The other 6-8 scvs being a little behind, still well in Control's base ]
If he really needed to kill the turret, because of his coming ' Scout ' the 5 dragoons that you say you saw COMING were way ahead of the scout, and as well all know dragoons are much faster than scouts. Kingdom easily could have destroyed the turret in time for the scout to come and ' Harass '. The four goons under the barrack by then would've targted the tank only, killing it, losing a maximum of 2-3 goons, still leaving AT LEAST one under the barrack, then soon after the 5 goons destroy the turret, they would come and relieve any more opposition at Controls entrance, The scout[s], then without any turret problems could go freely.
That is what I would have done, and I gurantee you it would've worked. I'm not going to sit here and type like you and 4 others who think you know how Kingdom thought/played.
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On June 21 2004 18:55 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
First of all, sorry to Chobopeon, I wasn't really informed previously on Mensrea identification attempts.
Second of all, wow I just want to say stfu plz to all the people who were talking about those other games. Those were definitely not * helped * [ I'm going to avoid using the word rigged here ] I've watched those games and they were all reasonable mistakes.
Also a HUGE SHUT THE FUCK UP goes to the people who say he was using the goons to kill the turret because of scouts or dts. First of all, when the four goons were UNDER the barracks, Kingdom didn't even HAVE scouts, hell he probably didn't even warp his Stargate halfway by then.
I'm telling you if you fucking watch it and have a open mind you will see that it's FUCKING suspicious for him to move 4 goons away from victory. The SCOUTS if you were fucking watching and not saying, omfg bullshit no rigging, came AFTER the initial block harass. They heleped prevent Control from expanding to his nat.
Rebanned, your post was so fucking stupid, here it is.
Alright, He goes Scouts and Dts... So everyone is freaking out over him killing a TURRET? Hmm it would seem to me that turrets are a pain in the ass against both of those things.
Woot
Um, wtf you moron. Did you even watch the VOD? The dts came during the last 2-3 minutes of the game in a desparate attempt by Kingdom to save himself. Control was halfway up the fucking map. The turret that I was talking about before was the one Control built at his BLOCK I.E. ENTRANCE when the only attacking units on the map were tanks and goons.
i love the love at the start
anyway, im about to watch the vod.
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I wonder if this will go on the same track the Watergate scandal went or the 1920's black sox or Pete Rose
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i agree kingdom's one mistake is kinda plausible, those pros do goofy shit all the time
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
On June 21 2004 05:12 hasuwar wrote:
What do you guys think, Kingdom is going to be laughing or something at the end, if they rigged the game?
What do you think? That OGN really rigged the game?
Kingdom should give up being a pro-gamer and go to Hollywood, considering what a superb actor he must be to so realistically fake that reaction at the loss.
It is all nonsense.
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i think what ppl are suspecting is that some pros go along with what someone with ogn's ratings in mind (ogn, an advertiser, hell anyone who wants big ratings, even maybe just some team managers looking to hype their players) for whatever reason (probably bribes)... not saying that's the case, but some of u guys post as though u cant even imagine the reasons why ... so there u go. theres some possibilities now stop acting so clueless
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Hmmm, well the Nada throwing away a win so he could avoid meeting boxer, that is not rigged, it is just tactics.
And about the Nada vs Yellow, by the coments of mensrea I guess it was fairly rigged, or Nada wanted a loss ^_^
And this game, dunno since I didn't watch the vod -.-
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or imagine this.. two players agree to dick around and make themselves look sensational and pretty and they agree to share the money
again, because this post is to help those of u without comprehension skills already.. ill repeat myself. i dont think this happened, i dont care, im just saying.. its ridiculous to say "wow theres a prize and prestige, no one wuld ever rig! why woudl they?'
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Milzo
France656 Posts
On June 21 2004 21:35 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
It's funny how you know what he was thinking.
There is no excuse that you can come up with that will make me change my thoughts on the 4 goon situation.
As you said, the first scout was finished, I admit that. But what you failed to see was that with 4 goons under a barracks vs a tank with only 4 scvs CLOSE enough to start repairing it [ The other 6-8 scvs being a little behind, still well in Control's base ]
If he really needed to kill the turret, because of his coming ' Scout ' the 5 dragoons that you say you saw COMING were way ahead of the scout, and as well all know dragoons are much faster than scouts. Kingdom easily could have destroyed the turret in time for the scout to come and ' Harass '. The four goons under the barrack by then would've targted the tank only, killing it, losing a maximum of 2-3 goons, still leaving AT LEAST one under the barrack, then soon after the 5 goons destroy the turret, they would come and relieve any more opposition at Controls entrance, The scout[s], then without any turret problems could go freely.
That is what I would have done, and I gurantee you it would've worked. I'm not going to sit here and type like you and 4 others who think you know how Kingdom thought/played.
I'm just GUESSING what he could have thought at that moment. You fail to realize that 4 goons cannot do significant damage in a terran base when factories are still pumping units and goons are harassed by SCVs.
As I said, Kingdom was late on his macro and needed to keep his goons alive in order to maintain the containment that much longer/ be able to spend a lot of minerals on two expos and many probes. I think that he was very right to do so, in the long run.
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Oh you thought what he did was right.
You just proved to everyone that you are a newb.
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really if u have 4 goons inside a terran's base with the rax lifted off, and u got 5 more goons on the way, u got range, and terran has 1 tank, it sounds like that tank dies, u dont let the rax land, the other 5 goons arrive, 9 goons vs 2 new tanks + scvs.....
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Thank you Stimey, at least ONE person can understand this simple situation without making it incredibly complex so that it fits their ' Wow you're overeacting ' opinions.
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Milzo
France656 Posts
On June 22 2004 05:45 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Oh you thought what he did was right.
You just proved to everyone that you are a newb.
Ahah, I was sure you will have to say something like that when you'd run out out of arguments. I pity you, you paranoid dumb ass. What the fuck are four goons going to do in a terran base when you don't have any observers, not even a Robotics Facility???
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On June 21 2004 03:13 Klogon wrote: Show nested quote +On June 21 2004 03:08 Aqeloutro wrote:
I started to think some TV games were rigged when I saw that famous game between Boxer and Garimto on NFZ where Garimto goes for straight arbiter and zealot recall. Boxer doesn't scout Garimto's base during the whole game, not a scan, not a flying barracks, nothing...Otherwise he would have seen the arbiter thing.
Why rig that game? All for the show!
I also think Reach Vs Nal_Ra on Paradoxx might be rigged, Reach goes straight for dark archons and Ra doen's scout either. Even Boxer vs Joyo on Paradoxx could be rigged, Joyo played like shit at the end, he let Boxer win. If you saw Joyo's face after the match, you know it wasn't rigged. :o
LOL I was laughing SO HARD when I saw his face. Then I felt sorry for him.
Boxers face when from @_@ to :D
Joyo's went from @_@ to T_T
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On June 22 2004 09:47 Milzo wrote: Show nested quote +On June 22 2004 05:45 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
Oh you thought what he did was right.
You just proved to everyone that you are a newb. Ahah, I was sure you will have to say something like that when you'd run out out of arguments. I pity you, you paranoid dumb ass. What the fuck are four goons going to do in a terran base when you don't have any observers, not even a Robotics Facility???
I didn't run out of arguments dipshit, that WAS an argument. Kingdom knew that there were no vultures with mines. Trying to expand at that time with the amount of scvs attacking his goons and only ONE tank attacking him, he knew there were ZERO vultures to mine him.
So please stfu and die.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Control was doing a vulture drop and he knew there was no mines.. Right, gotcha!
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If Control had any vultures he would've used them to prevent the four goons coming in along with his tank. [ Which he didn't ] Why else would he use that many scvs? Right back at ya!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 22 2004 18:29 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
If Control had any vultures he would've used them to prevent the four goons coming in along with his tank. [ Which he didn't ] Why else would he use that many scvs? Right back at ya!
Fuck. True!
Okay then, I think he was going to show off with his scouts (he was showing off all along -.-)
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On June 22 2004 18:38 FrozenArbiter wrote: Show nested quote +On June 22 2004 18:29 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
If Control had any vultures he would've used them to prevent the four goons coming in along with his tank. [ Which he didn't ] Why else would he use that many scvs? Right back at ya! Fuck. True! Okay then, I think he was going to show off with his scouts (he was showing off all along -.-)
Lolz, hey no bad feelings. I really appreciate that you at least understand my argument, unlike a large percentage of people on internet forums. Yes he was showing off with scouts but it was valid, so many kills with scouts. At least 6! [ One had 6 kills, the OGN observers didn't click the other scout before it died ]
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On June 22 2004 18:29 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
If Control had any vultures he would've used them to prevent the four goons coming in along with his tank. [ Which he didn't ] Why else would he use that many scvs? Right back at ya!
being that what actually happened has no relevance to what kingdom *thought was happening* your arguements are invalid.
We have no idea what kingdom knew and didnt know. He could have just made mistakes. I have no way to prove it anymore than u can prove against it.
The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Since there is no way to prove it's actuality in being correct, the simplest answer, in this case, would also be the wisest one.
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On June 22 2004 22:17 Teroru wrote: Show nested quote +On June 22 2004 18:29 Abyss_Bahamut wrote:
If Control had any vultures he would've used them to prevent the four goons coming in along with his tank. [ Which he didn't ] Why else would he use that many scvs? Right back at ya! being that what actually happened has no relevance to what kingdom *thought was happening* your arguements are invalid. We have no idea what kingdom knew and didnt know. He could have just made mistakes. I have no way to prove it anymore than u can prove against it. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Since there is no way to prove it's actuality in being correct, the simplest answer, in this case, would also be the wisest one.
Wrong. Why? Kingdom saw the one tank attacking him and all his scvs. He knew at that point, Control was in desperation mode. Not he thought, he KNEW as well as we KNOW when someone is in desperation mode with all units including peons attacking. BECAUSE there were no vultures attacking, he KNEW that there were no mines. But just because he knew doesn't mean he used that information correctly. Now, being a pro-gamer it's hard to believe that someone would know this and still use the information incorrectly which led to the belief that this game was somehow not natural.
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EPT
