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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On July 22 2010 03:53 jalstar wrote: nah more like fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro twice. and the games won't even be close. SKT1 zergs winning twice? :p | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
I really CJ was our hardest opponent, both because of their players and their coach. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
Skt has a strong protoss line. PvT imba dictates SKT has this easy. Wemade has no zergs good enough to snipe Bisu and Best (Bests PvZ is actually very good if he doesn't lose his first 5 corsairs). I'll quote myself when I'm right On July 20 2010 23:03 Zona wrote: So, when you disagree with a statement that comes with ample evidence and reasoning to support it, you may want to consider if you can actually find fault with any of the supporting reasoning provided. Or, it may be in fact that your viewpoint is flawed. Take for example, such amazingly well thought out counterarguments by CJ supporters, who all were unable to actually attack the meat of my well presented argument. Actually, to be honest, I really was quite disappointed by the lack of posters pointing out the real weaknesses in the arguments presented, which I am personally aware of, being the author of the piece. Only "Best really isn't that good" actually came up, while some of the other flimsy arguments remain untouched (although at least one of the real weaknesses was glaringly exposed in the series with cJ). Well Zona the thing with these threads is that they're hype threads. They overvalue everyone and are just there to generate hype. Don't expect any reasonable arguments from this any more than you would from a toronto raptors season tickets commercial | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway. | ||
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imDerek
United States1944 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On July 22 2010 13:51 SubtleArt wrote: Wemade relies on its terran line Skt has a strong protoss line. PvT imba dictates SKT has this easy. Wemade has no zergs good enough to snipe Bisu and Best (Bests PvZ is actually very good if he doesn't lose his first 5 corsairs). I'll quote myself when I'm right Are you really saying Shine couldnt beat Best or Bisu...? On July 22 2010 13:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach). T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway. Flash isnt that scary of an opponent anymore. The last two months clearly showed everyone hes far from unbeatable... | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On July 22 2010 13:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach). T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway. Tbh KT's top 3 can be argued to be better by Elo. Surprising eh? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight! I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys. The best thing about T1 is that despite people saying they enjoy our sweet tears, they QQ harder when we win than we do when we lose. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On July 22 2010 14:39 SuperArc wrote: Are you really saying Shine couldnt beat Best or Bisu...? Flash isnt that scary of an opponent anymore. The last two months clearly showed everyone hes far from unbeatable... The way bisus been playing recently, shine has a very very slim chance. Best's PvZ is obviously always a liability but I would still give him a better chance than shine | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On July 22 2010 03:53 jalstar wrote: nah more like fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro twice. and the games won't even be close. Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs? | ||
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nuke_rush
Hong Kong126 Posts
Back to the point, SKT1 do not need to rely on their Zerg players to win; they have 3 strong players, Best, Bisu and Fantasy, who are all on form at the moment; Bisu has won his last 9, Fantasy was raping in PL, and Best has won 7 of his last 10, including a PvZ. If they can pull wins out of their hats, a win by one of their Zerg players will be more of a pleasant bonus rather than a vital necessity, unlike Oz in 2009, where Jaedong and some other guy plx pl0x win and ace Jaedong win. Here, SKT have all the foundations to take it to ace, and whether they can win a 4th or not before ace is subjective. SKT's Zerg lineup is actually quite good at anything but ZvT. Hyuk has beaten Jaedong and Effort in ZvZ, with some seriously sick muta micro, and it's obvious that that matchup is his strength. s2 can win some games, but all SKT need to do with their Zerg players is anticipate a game where a Terran will not be sent out, and play a Zerg. Against WeMade FOX, this will be very difficult. Best is quite favored to win his games, having very good PvT (60%+), whereas Fantasy should also win. Bisu is a bit of a wild card; he has shown great PvT, but his form is still in 'cocoon' phase so it'll be hard to tell. I think every day will go to Ace, because WeMade has a Terran lineup notorious for being Zerg killers (Nada, Mind, Baby, Midas?) and they are deep enough to keep a strong lineup going until an ace, unlike CJ who had to field BByong due to their lack of other options. Therefore, WeMade will probably be the biggest test of SKT1; if either of their 3 aces drops a game, they're automatically in some seriously deep shit. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 23 2010 13:20 MangoTango wrote: Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs? Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow). | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again). | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash. I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again). + Show Spoiler [MBC vs. WeMade spoiler] + Sea and Light are a nonissue, since MBC is out of the playoffs. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash. I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again). They have a good protoss line, so it should be no prob. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:01 nuke_rush wrote: lol i was watching vids of BeSt playing in 2008, and while his PvP was the omgsh godmode, his PvZ is laughable in that any air units he gets get completely annihilated. Back to the point, SKT1 do not need to rely on their Zerg players to win; they have 3 strong players, Best, Bisu and Fantasy, who are all on form at the moment; Bisu has won his last 9, Fantasy was raping in PL, and Best has won 7 of his last 10, including a PvZ. If they can pull wins out of their hats, a win by one of their Zerg players will be more of a pleasant bonus rather than a vital necessity, unlike Oz in 2009, where Jaedong and some other guy plx pl0x win and ace Jaedong win. Here, SKT have all the foundations to take it to ace, and whether they can win a 4th or not before ace is subjective. SKT's Zerg lineup is actually quite good at anything but ZvT. Hyuk has beaten Jaedong and Effort in ZvZ, with some seriously sick muta micro, and it's obvious that that matchup is his strength. s2 can win some games, but all SKT need to do with their Zerg players is anticipate a game where a Terran will not be sent out, and play a Zerg. Against WeMade FOX, this will be very difficult. Best is quite favored to win his games, having very good PvT (60%+), whereas Fantasy should also win. Bisu is a bit of a wild card; he has shown great PvT, but his form is still in 'cocoon' phase so it'll be hard to tell. I think every day will go to Ace, because WeMade has a Terran lineup notorious for being Zerg killers (Nada, Mind, Baby, Midas?) and they are deep enough to keep a strong lineup going until an ace, unlike CJ who had to field BByong due to their lack of other options. Therefore, WeMade will probably be the biggest test of SKT1; if either of their 3 aces drops a game, they're automatically in some seriously deep shit. SKT zergs have gone 1-7 so far, their only win coming from a ZvT. All their losses come from ZvZs and ZvPs. So no, skt zergs are not good once again. They have to fear all three matchups. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:04 Zato-1 wrote: Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow). I'm quite aware they went 1-7. I just wanted to see jalstar say it. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash. I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again). Depth? The current SKT? If we take off the fan-tinged glasses, the match vs CJ showed that SKT's zergs are not playoff caliber, and Canata is no longer the player he used to be. The protosses won the series vs CJ, everyone else just contributed 1 or 2 wins a day. Both the SKT terrans and zergs will likely have a better time vs WeMade, but the series vs CJ did NOT exhibit SKT's depth - in fact it did just the opposite, with the team's heavy reliance on the two star protosses. | ||
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