|
Updated post
What do you guys think now? I think oov is the best, then Nada, then nal_ra. The criteria is, who would you pick to play a best of 5 series against a random top pro on balanced maps? new posts start on page 7
Poll: Who's the best CURRENT player? (Vote): Xellos (Vote): Yellow (Vote): nal_ra (Vote): Nada (Vote): Boxer (Vote): iloveoov (Vote): Other
Original post written March 14
There is a very, very good case that oov is the best player in the world right now. if he beats nada in the MBCgame finals, i think the title is his.
Overall nada: 344 - 161 -> 68.1% oov: 77 - 26 -> 74.8 %
TvZ nada: 153 - 70 -> 68.6% oov: 24 - 5 -> 82.8%
TvP nada: 103 - 53 -> 66.0% oov: 21 - 6 -> 77.8%
TvT nada: 86 - 36 -> 70.5% oov: 32 - 15 -> 68.1%
conclusion: oov is a fucking machine, and just needs 1 more major trophy to secure his spot as the best player. i think oov had easier competition (slightly), but he also dominated pretty much everything that he's been in. MSL twice, and both team leagues for a while
goodfriend is also coming up strong too. once he is established, the top 5 players may all be terran
|
Russian Federation1020 Posts
Personally, to conclude someone as #1, i want more than just 2 trophies. Even though i realize its quite the feat, it seems too soon to call.
|
Russian Federation722 Posts
wow if those stats arent misleading(dunno how they would be) oov is fucking amazing and wayyy underrated
tvz 83% , nasty
|
IF he beat NADA. i think that is pretty conclusive
|
He's inconsistent and thats all -_-
|
you've got some really strong evidence to back it up, but the truth is that oov isn't as consistently good as nada; also he may look good on paper.
|
i saw his vod vs yellow, that was some impressive stuff in u-boat. probably the best vod ive ever seen, with 20 minutes of hunting down buildings while yellow kept making more
|
Oov is my fave tvp player so far.
|
United States12237 Posts
Wow that's interesting. TvZ was long considered to be his worst matchup, and apparently statistically it's his best.
|
damn terrans, id like to see a top zerg player for once.
|
Hum.. it looks fine like that but nada have way more games played... just wait till oov have as many games to judge
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On March 14 2004 19:47 MiniRoman wrote: He's inconsistent and thats all -_- because having a 75% winning percetage is very inconsistant, right?
|
MURICA15980 Posts
He looks like the new nada... dominating MBCGame then finally moving to OGN after getting a few MBC titles.
|
he was trained by Boxer after all..
|
His weakest MU, stats wise, is TvT tho... a disturbingly common MU these days.
TT_TT;;
|
I would like to see how his games continue...I mean nada has played WAY more games through all the times ...oov is just pretty recent...
and jsut to compare does anyone have the stats on nada for his first bunch of games?
|
i think he needs more time. people might just have trouble with his style, or hes just goin along on momentum. just let him continue his streak a LIL longer.
besides, who said beating nada made him best in the world? i honestly think ra is better overall. much more inventive and intelligent player.
|
|
Russian Federation722 Posts
guys lets be realistic here, its not like he's gonna MAJORLY drop off ;he just might lose some more games than he has on this torrent he's been on lately, he'll probably drop off a few percentage points and level off at about what nadas at. i'd say they're fairly equal ,just gotta give him that additional year nada has had~~
|
Russian Federation722 Posts
and as hovz said, give him way more games  although judging by how he's been playing nothing short of a breakdown would have any impact record wise
|
On March 14 2004 20:19 analogkensho wrote: His weakest MU, stats wise, is TvT tho... a disturbingly common MU these days.
TT_TT;;
he beat nada 3-1 in a major tournament for same race matchup, anything above 60% is really, really good he's considered top 3 (at worst) tvt, and most consider him equal to nada
|
Hovz is right. You really can't compare their percentages until Oov has played many more games. The reason being, once you've played more games, you have to win significantly more games than you lose to keep that same percentage. For example, overall, Nada's got roughly 200 more wins than he does losses, while Oov has roughly 50 more. Yet, Nada still has a lower percentage.
Everyone knows that in Korea any top player can beat another top player on any given day. Therefore, Oov would have to keep up a very nice streak to keep such an advantage in percentage over Nada when he has played the same amount of games. Until then, it's not wise to compare the two based on stats alone unless you're talking about an equal number of games, i.e. stats for a particular league, like MBC.
Anyway, still nice stats. Very impressive regardless of how he compares to Nada.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
Unless you pull stats that are recent. I believe that Saro posted some liquibet stats a while back that are pretty accurate for recent games only stats.
|
On March 14 2004 20:43 benzoic-acid wrote: he beat nada 3-1 in a major tournament for same race matchup, anything above 60% is really, really good he's considered top 3 (at worst) tvt, and most consider him equal to nada
Hmmm thanks for info, didn't know that offhand. Still too many TvTs tho... -_-
|
Gee, for once I totally agree with Hovz... Statistics are something people should learn to be more wary of, they are so easily manipulated or taken out of context.
|
Thats only comparison with percentages. If he had gone 3-0 and get that 100%, would that change the idea?
|
he hasn't played half the games nada has.. that's kinda like saying someone who goes 30-0 on wgt is as good as someone who is 90-25 because he has a better win percentage..if the guy who went 30-0 kept playing, he'd start losing a lot more than likely
edit..yeah, basically what hovz said ;o
|
MURICA15980 Posts
Well hasu, that's entirely not correct unless the guy who's 30-0 on WGTour start off playing versus A ranked players instead of C6, which is essientially what oov is doing.
|
United Kingdom10597 Posts
|
On March 14 2004 20:49 Klogon wrote: Unless you pull stats that are recent. I believe that Saro posted some liquibet stats a while back that are pretty accurate for recent games only stats. those stats were pretty old, at least 2-3 months, i think. most games from this OGN SL werent in there
|
On March 14 2004 22:13 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 14 2004 21:30 hasuwar wrote: he hasn't played half the games nada has.. that's kinda like saying someone who goes 30-0 on wgt is as good as someone who is 90-25 because he has a better win percentage..if the guy who went 30-0 kept playing, he'd start losing a lot more than likely
edit..yeah, basically what hovz said ;o well... the 90-25 guy would have had ~8 losses by the time he hit 30 games, whereas the 30-0 would still have a clean sheet.. i'd be routing for the 30-0 guy tbh so what about a 90-3 vs a 29-0 guy?
(if you're just getting picky on exact ratios instead of the point being made)
|
Beating Nada wouldn't make Oov #1 automatically either. TheMarine had a winning percentage against Boxer back in the day but there wasn't any doubt who was the better player overall (at least for most people). I think for Oov to be accepted as the best he needs to get an OGN win. Nada was also in the same situation when he was rising to the top and wasn't really universally accepted as the best until his 2002 OGN win.
|
I think everyone is missing a huge point.
I said that oov will be the best player if he beats nada in the finals. Best, as in "most likely to win a game right now," not "who has accomplished the most."
However, pro-gaming is very, very dynamic. You cant look at old stats because they are more misleading. ALL of oov's games have come in the past year or so, while nada's are spread over a few years. If you want to use old stats, then chrh and themarine are still both top 10, according to pgr21.com (i believe).
People who accomplished a lot may actually suck now. It is players like oov, goodfriend, and nada (2 years ago) who people should consider, because they are dominating RIGHT NOW, not 6 months ago, not a year ago, not 3 years ago.
If you want discount oov for the lack of games played, then you can say that sync or themarine is better than oov, even though everyone knows they are not. all you people that are saying stats are misleading, you are the ones that are misusing them
Given oov's stats and his dominance in pretty much anything he has played in, if he does beat nada in MSL, he is definitely the top pro as of that moment.
|
On March 14 2004 22:30 Make7UpYours wrote: Beating Nada wouldn't make Oov #1 automatically either. TheMarine had a winning percentage against Boxer back in the day but there wasn't any doubt who was the better player overall (at least for most people). I think for Oov to be accepted as the best he needs to get an OGN win. Nada was also in the same situation when he was rising to the top and wasn't really universally accepted as the best until his 2002 OGN win.
you contradict yourself here. everyone knew that boxer was better than themarine overall, even though themarine had a pretty even record with boxer. nobody is sure whether nada or oov is better, which is why i am considering their head to head. also, i never said that head to head means everything, i am just using it as a piece of evidence to build up a case
within the pro-gaming community (hardcore fans + top amateurs + pro gamers) everyone knew that nada was the best player. it is the common fan that didnt realize that until he won OGN.
|
Tho Hovz is right, these stats are still awesome. I don't even remember the last time a Z beat him, and except that game vs ForU on Challenge Leage, same goes for the last time a P beat him...
|
On March 14 2004 22:30 Make7UpYours wrote: Nada ]was also in the same situation when he was rising to the top and wasn't really universally accepted as the best until his 2002 OGN win.
Finally, someone says that. I never heard of him til that time.
|
On March 14 2004 21:43 Klogon wrote: Well hasu, that's entirely not correct unless the guy who's 30-0 on WGTour start off playing versus A ranked players instead of C6, which is essientially what oov is doing.
You read my post backwards, congrats.
On March 14 2004 22:13 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 14 2004 21:30 hasuwar wrote: he hasn't played half the games nada has.. that's kinda like saying someone who goes 30-0 on wgt is as good as someone who is 90-25 because he has a better win percentage..if the guy who went 30-0 kept playing, he'd start losing a lot more than likely
edit..yeah, basically what hovz said ;o well... the 90-25 guy would have had ~8 losses by the time he hit 30 games, whereas the 30-0 would still have a clean sheet.. i'd be routing for the 30-0 guy tbh
What I was saying was, the first 30 games are easy for good players..it's when you get to the higher ranks that you start losing... if the 30-0 guy played more, he'd start losing
|
On March 14 2004 22:52 IcedEarth wrote: Show nested quote +On March 14 2004 22:30 Make7UpYours wrote: Nada ]was also in the same situation when he was rising to the top and wasn't really universally accepted as the best until his 2002 OGN win. Finally, someone says that. I never heard of him til that time.
heh i reckon!!!
benzoic, were not comparing his all-time accomplishments, cuz then noone comes close to say the old school greats (maynard, gundam or others who have moves named after them, but they arent shit now) or boxer.
we're just saying how can u compare (for example) 8-1 versus 150-15. sure u can look at ratios, but if oov has something different in his style which is getting him wins NOW that we honestly wont notice in bad res obs vods, the pro players sure as shit will notice and find ways to bring him down soon. if he still dominates in the longer run, then maybe hes adjustable/intelligent enough to be the best.
although nada has nowhere near the charisma and funny ass style of our king boxa, u gotta admit his game is almost flawless and he can handle ANYTHING thrown at him, in any matchup. THATS WHY hes been fuckin em up for years. let oov prove hes more than a flash in the pants, otherwise u really cant say hes the best, cuz hes the new kid, wait till the other pros learn his moves and are playing him at their level.
think of this; when these players come up they watch boxer/nada vods, reps etc etc etc and they can see their moves/tendencies problems that the players have. WHO THE FUCK WAS ILOVEOOV when he first entered the pro scene? people are still learning about him, wat makes a player god is the ability to still play great AFTER people have studied the ways to bring u down.
|
That's a strong backup for your argument benzoic-acid.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On March 14 2004 23:36 hasuwar wrote: Show nested quote +On March 14 2004 21:43 Klogon wrote: Well hasu, that's entirely not correct unless the guy who's 30-0 on WGTour start off playing versus A ranked players instead of C6, which is essientially what oov is doing. You read my post backwards, congrats. huh?
If you misunderstood, I didn't mean that oov was playing c6, but that he started off playing A level players. A person going 30-0 versus the best gamers in the world and going 30-0 versus random players is totally different.
But lets say we apply this standard of the players starting off their records versus the very best because the 90-25 player on WGTour would also have around 30 newbie bashing wins. So now that both players have these amazing records of 90-25 and 30-0 on TV Games (hypothetically), then they are both very talented players. But in your post you said the 30-0 will start losing a lot more after he played started to play more. This is true and not true at the same time because the 30-0 player is already playing the best of the best, so there isn't a higher tier of players that will even out his record. But on the other hand, if he even loses ONE game, it will ruin his perfect record and every loss after that will significantly affect his ratio. But a 30-0 player has shown is he UNDEFEATABLE 30 games in a row versus the very best in the world. This is amazing! The 90-25 player has been beaten in approx 1/3 of his games, so we can assume once out of every three games, he will lose (on average) so he isn't an undefeatable monster, but just a very very good player.In that situation, I would bet my money on the 30-0 player because he is probably still unstopable and has proven his utter dominance of the scene at the current moment. He will probably continue the dominance for some time (30 wins in a row at that level is near impossible unless you are truely unstopable) and so you could use that statistic to say AT THE MOMENT, the 30-0 player is the best, even if he hasn't played more games IN THE FUTURE, because we aren't worried about what he will player like later, but instead concentrating on what he is NOW.
This had little to do with the conversation, but... on second thought, it did somewhat as people are talking about statistics. But oov is far from 30-0 so I guess it doesn't apply.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
Oh yeah, my point. You can't say he isn't the CURRENT best just because he hasn't played 200 games.
|
|
You can't say he is either.
|
I was the 1st to say he would be the next boxer here in the forum. I still think so.
|
On March 14 2004 22:13 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 14 2004 21:30 hasuwar wrote: he hasn't played half the games nada has.. that's kinda like saying someone who goes 30-0 on wgt is as good as someone who is 90-25 because he has a better win percentage..if the guy who went 30-0 kept playing, he'd start losing a lot more than likely
edit..yeah, basically what hovz said ;o well... the 90-25 guy would have had ~8 losses by the time he hit 30 games, whereas the 30-0 would still have a clean sheet.. i'd be routing for the 30-0 guy tbh
invalid reasoning. losses dont distribute themselves evenly, especially on wgtour.
|
On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all.
Yeah, we all know, it's trash talking what matters most. If you loose 5 games in a row, that means nothing, you can still tell your oppo he's a fucking little newb and if you really had tried you'd spanked his ass -.-
|
lol koehli nice
|
I think no one mentioned that oovs big success so far was limited to mbc perfomance. My opinion is that this is mostly because of the maps. The maps play an important role, and oov seems to like the mbc maps and had the ability to limit his training to them because it was the only really important tournament he actually cared for... Moreover they are very terran friendly maps and nada had to beat strong zergs and toss on a great many of more difficult maps than the mbc ones.
|
On March 15 2004 02:11 koehli wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all. Yeah, we all know, it's trash talking what matters most. If you loose 5 games in a row, that means nothing, you can still tell your oppo he's a fucking little newb and if you really had tried you'd spanked his ass -.-
glad to see someone finally knows how this shit works!~!~
|
Russian Federation207 Posts
I'm not sure that its right to compare players with such a huge difference in number of matches they played cause it is not a matter of fact that iloveoov will have so good persantage ballance after 100-200 official future games
|
fuck your gay statistics / percentages bullshit. its about as meaningful for skill judgement as a black chicks vote in a rigged democracy. Nada owns OOv, always will, always has. oov has played 60 games as opposed to nadas 400, and your saying he has better statistics so hes better?
ok, well let me backfire this shit on you. oov has better statistics, but guess what? NaDa has more wins!
These 2 arguments are equally meaningful. AKA: fucking stupid.
|
u can't deny the fact he was also awesome in the first proleague
|
Sweden1225 Posts
Didn't he beat NADA 3-1 in last MBC semis? .. then proceeded to buttrape Yellow 3-0 in the finals.
|
|
yellow is buttraped by every terran in the finals
|
On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all.
If it's ment to be funny. It wasnt If it wasnt a joke. You are a Idiot, which is nothing new.
I personally think and there are so many facts, that no one has the right answer who the best gamer in overall is ( there are so many things : how long pro gamer, how much money was made, how much games as pro in leagues, how often 1 place, how many cool and good games, how well known, how well liked,......)
I think the Top3 Sc gamer forever are at the moment nada,boxer and grrrr...
But if iloveoov even gets into a top3 ever list he has to be 1 or 2 years more in pro gaming circus and much more sucessfull..
|
On March 15 2004 04:40 IntoTheClan wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all. If it's ment to be funny. It wasnt If it wasnt a joke. You are a Idiot, which is nothing new. I personally think and there are so many facts, that no one has the right answer who the best gamer in overall is ( there are so many things : how long pro gamer, how much money was made, how much games as pro in leagues, how often 1 place, how many cool and good games, how well known, how well liked,......) I think the Top3 Sc gamer forever are at the moment nada,boxer and grrrr... But if iloveoov even gets into a top3 ever list he has to be 1 or 2 years more in pro gaming circus and much more sucessfull..
to be honest grrr is not even top 30 at the moment
|
On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all.
Yeah, that's the reason why you, HovZ, are one of the top-5 non-korean Terran gamers...
|
|
In pgr rankings, there's [B_Blade]Dark: No.182 조규백 1023 1전 1승 0패 100.0 %
He's the most consistant (or at least on of 'em) sc players! not a single loss!!1
|
Norway10161 Posts
On March 15 2004 05:05 lefty wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 04:40 IntoTheClan wrote: On March 15 2004 01:31 GoDHovZ wrote: actually results dont judge skill at all. If it's ment to be funny. It wasnt If it wasnt a joke. You are a Idiot, which is nothing new. I personally think and there are so many facts, that no one has the right answer who the best gamer in overall is ( there are so many things : how long pro gamer, how much money was made, how much games as pro in leagues, how often 1 place, how many cool and good games, how well known, how well liked,......) I think the Top3 Sc gamer forever are at the moment nada,boxer and grrrr... But if iloveoov even gets into a top3 ever list he has to be 1 or 2 years more in pro gaming circus and much more sucessfull.. to be honest grrr is not even top 30 at the moment
He was talking about popularity & skill-wise over the years. Which puts grrr in top3.
|
iloveoov in the OGN Challenge League : 1-4
I think Silence made a good point.
All I have to say is 고고 김성민!
|
lol, nada played much more games. with 30 games played nada could do that too
|
I think Nada is better at TvZ, TvT, and TvP than iloveoov.
|
On March 15 2004 07:01 Bill and Bill wrote: I think Nada is better at TvZ, TvT, and TvP than iloveoov.
Not tvp =/
|
On March 15 2004 04:36 SoMuchBetter wrote: yellow is buttraped by every terran in the finals 
Leave my Yellow alone.
|
|
Correct me if i'm wrong but about 1 month ago it was said that the best tvt in the world is oov, and the best tvp in the world in nada...i watched a lot of tvp by nada and hes probably the best... About TvZ i don't know...
i just know know nada can own 1 lurk with 1 rine lol (his rine vs lurk micro is so amazing sometimes that i wonder if he plays on b net with low latency...)
And sometimes when he try real hard his dropship micro comes very close to boxer, if not as good as boxer.
|
Russian Federation722 Posts
On March 15 2004 09:08 FloOfy wrote:
(his rine vs lurk micro is so amazing sometimes that i wonder if he plays on b net with low latency...)
.......
????
|
Regardless if you are a person that believes that Oov has more to prove before he becomes #1 in the world. His current statistics speak for themselves, and lend better support to benzoic-acid's case, than the non believers who are hopelessly in love with Nada. 1 word: Boxer. Nada will be dethrowned sooner or later, and why not to the next stage in the terran evolution. Boxer = Micro, Nada = 50/50 Oov = Macro (not at all represenative of their true skills, just a funny generalization)
|
Its all about how LONG you do VERY GOOD Nothing else.
|
On March 14 2004 22:21 benzoic-acid wrote: those stats were pretty old, at least 2-3 months, i think. most games from this OGN SL werent in there
Those liquibet stats I did weren't at all suppose to be some sort of all-inclusive listing of progamer statistics. They're just some stats on the matches of our current liquibet season.
Having said that though, I don't know why you think those stats are 2-3 months old. And most of the current NHN Hangame OGN SL matches are included (or did we really miss a ton of them or something?). We try to liquibet on all the major OGN/MBC leagues (Starleague, Challenge, Minor, etc). Just click Liquibet on the menu at the top of this page to see all the matches that were included in those statistics.
So, for everything we've been liquibetting on since the beginning of MyCube OGN SL: Nada: 21 - 6 Iloveoov: 12 - 6
(Keep in mind though that those stats are for matches, rather than games (ie best 3/5 or 2/3 only counts as 1 win or loss). Also, only take those stats for what they are - stats from the main liquibet page.)
|
|
HovZ, 2 games means nothing.
100 games means something.
|
Russian Federation1020 Posts
Master of the obvious eh?
|
|
you should change the topic title in "best Terran player". the past has told us 1.09/1.10 bw can only be completely dominated by terran players. If zerg was favored in 1.09/1.10 i'm pretty sure this topic would be about Yellow.
|
What happend to Oov going 0-5 in that league? Everyone praised him after his MBC win then he goes 0-5 and now hes back in another league and everyone starts claiming hes "the best" again. Sure he can play but like HovZ and other people have said. Give him time.
|
Yeah oov will catch up. Everyone has their slumps. Yellow and Boxer have both proved that.
|
With Oov in the Challenge Leauge. I firmly believe that he simply wasn't trying. There is no way anyone can be the best in the world, then just take a break for a few weeks, then go back to being the best in the world.
In terms of all time, ILoveOov isn't as good as NaDa or BoxeR, but right now he is a lot better.
|
On March 15 2004 09:33 iggs999 wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 09:08 FloOfy wrote:
(his rine vs lurk micro is so amazing sometimes that i wonder if he plays on b net with low latency...)
....... ????
What i mean is that when you play on battle net, there is always a small delay between your moves of about 0.5 seconds on low latency...doing dropship micro like boxer on battle net and extra high latency is just impossible.
|
On March 15 2004 13:38 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: With Oov in the Challenge Leauge. I firmly believe that he simply wasn't trying. There is no way anyone can be the best in the world, then just take a break for a few weeks, then go back to being the best in the world.
In terms of all time, ILoveOov isn't as good as NaDa or BoxeR, but right now he is a lot better.
agree
|
Around 500 games by nada, to 100 by Oov.. you can't compare them. And besides, nada has waaay more experience than oov.
|
On March 15 2004 14:22 likeboxer wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 13:38 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: With Oov in the Challenge Leauge. I firmly believe that he simply wasn't trying. There is no way anyone can be the best in the world, then just take a break for a few weeks, then go back to being the best in the world.
In terms of all time, ILoveOov isn't as good as NaDa or BoxeR, but right now he is a lot better. agree
He is not better than nada. end of story. you can't just go by who is the best because they win one little league. i remember when xellos 3-0'd boxer everyone was like OMG XEllos!! then Nal_ra wins something and everyone is like OMG NAL_Ra best player!!
|
HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
I think ppl forgot how nada played on a different level compared to everyone else in the single most important bw tournament ever as recently as a couple months ago.
|
i hate wagonists that claim a rising star is better than everyone else because there on a streak OOV is NOT better than nada. WTF? Nada was raping everyone consistently and now that oov is doing it that means he is automatically better than nada? Your just so used to nada raping everyone you dont realize it but since oov got great your just realizing it.
|
On March 15 2004 14:53 Ace wrote: i hate wagonists that claim a rising star is better than everyone else because there on a streak  OOV isnt NOT better than nada. WTF? Nada was raping everyone consistently and now that oov is doing it that means he is automatically better than nada? Your just so used to nada raping everyone you dont realize it but since oov got great your just realizing it.
ILoveOov is on a streak RIGHT NOW and therefore is the best player in the world RIGHT NOW...
|
And can you tell me whats wrong with nada? Is he losing like crazy or something? I hope jinnam goes on a 10 game winning streak so we can all claim him the best player.
|
On March 15 2004 14:24 rOm wrote: Around 500 games by nada, to 100 by Oov.. you can't compare them. And besides, nada has waaay more experience than oov.
Yes. Absolutely!
|
On March 15 2004 14:56 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 14:53 Ace wrote: i hate wagonists that claim a rising star is better than everyone else because there on a streak  OOV isnt NOT better than nada. WTF? Nada was raping everyone consistently and now that oov is doing it that means he is automatically better than nada? Your just so used to nada raping everyone you dont realize it but since oov got great your just realizing it. ILoveOov is on a streak RIGHT NOW and therefore is the best player in the world RIGHT NOW...
As much as I hate to agree with a bastard like HovZ, I think this is exactly what he is referring to. Just because someone is the best, according to winning a tournament, that does not mean he is the best player. Technically Oov IS the best, but I think many people would agree that in reality, as in overall, he is not the best. One tournament does not prove you are the best player. Even two tournaments does not. A classic counter-example for anyone that thinks oov is the best can look at Ogogo. Were you the same people that argued that he is better than everyone else? Do you really think that Ogogo is better than Boxer, or Nada, or Nal_rA, or practically ANY of the pro players? Of course not, that shows that stats and winning a tournament are merely indicators and not the final word on Whos Who in BW.
HovZ did overstep himself, as he almost always does, and made an all encompassing, sweeping generalization about all of BW and all tournaments. HOwever, if you take everything HovZ says, and reduce the "volume" by about half and ignore the trash talking, he sometimes accidently has some realistic statments hidden in the post. I can feel some empathy since I sometimes exaggerated something when I feel strongly about it. Maybe HovZ simply feels very strongly about himself being right in every single situation.
|
On March 15 2004 15:10 maleorderbride wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 14:56 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: On March 15 2004 14:53 Ace wrote: i hate wagonists that claim a rising star is better than everyone else because there on a streak  OOV isnt NOT better than nada. WTF? Nada was raping everyone consistently and now that oov is doing it that means he is automatically better than nada? Your just so used to nada raping everyone you dont realize it but since oov got great your just realizing it. ILoveOov is on a streak RIGHT NOW and therefore is the best player in the world RIGHT NOW... As much as I hate to agree with a bastard like HovZ, I think this is exactly what he is referring to. Just because someone is the best, according to winning a tournament, that does not mean he is the best player. Technically Oov IS the best, but I think many people would agree that in reality, as in overall, he is not the best. One tournament does not prove you are the best player. Even two tournaments does not. A classic counter-example for anyone that thinks oov is the best can look at Ogogo. Were you the same people that argued that he is better than everyone else? Do you really think that Ogogo is better than Boxer, or Nada, or Nal_rA, or practically ANY of the pro players? Of course not, that shows that stats and winning a tournament are merely indicators and not the final word on Whos Who in BW. HovZ did overstep himself, as he almost always does, and made an all encompassing, sweeping generalization about all of BW and all tournaments. HOwever, if you take everything HovZ says, and reduce the "volume" by about half and ignore the trash talking, he sometimes accidently has some realistic statments hidden in the post. I can feel some empathy since I sometimes exaggerated something when I feel strongly about it. Maybe HovZ simply feels very strongly about himself being right in every single situation. 
Ogogo winning WCG isn't nearly anything compared to what ILoveOov did. Think about the competition at WCG. Although some of the players there were very good (such as FisheYe and Elky), the competition there simply isn't anything compared to what ILoveOov has done:
3-1 vs NaDa Dominating Multiple Team Leauges 3-0 vs YellOw Winning MBC Game Utter Domination of many many good players.
I don't know how you can compare Ogogo winning WCG to what ILoveOov has done.
Although he sometimes says statements that are too broad, HovZ is almost always right. I just don't think that in this case he is taking into accouint ILoveOov's utter domination of coutless elite players.
|
|
On March 15 2004 15:42 GoDHovZ wrote: yes cuz 1 series v nada is the be all end all of skill judgment.
That's just one example out of his whole list of stuff he has done...
|
|
On March 15 2004 15:08 Schnake wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 14:24 rOm wrote: Around 500 games by nada, to 100 by Oov.. you can't compare them. And besides, nada has waaay more experience than oov. Yes. Absolutely!
And with Boxer's triumphs and long list of experiences hes automatically the top in the world right now too, right? I guess him being lack luster for the last months/year doesnt mean anything. Obviously experience and players history means more than the present.
No one has claimed Oov to be the best the game has ever saw, the amount of games played bit is old in this thread aswell. i guess you have no concept of time, because then some of you guys would understand what the emphasis of NOW meant. He is playing great now, and possibly at a level higher than even Nada and Nal_Ra, making him the best.... now....
|
OMFG Lebron James is a better player than Michael Jordan!
No.
|
morons need not respond 
I think you confused best in the world right now, with the best ever, which not one person has claimed. So A3iL3r0n go away~
|
On March 15 2004 15:58 GoDHovZ wrote: and nadas list is 10x bigger and better than iloves
What has NaDa done RECENTLY compared to Oov?
|
On March 15 2004 16:01 SW)RIF wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 15:08 Schnake wrote: On March 15 2004 14:24 rOm wrote: Around 500 games by nada, to 100 by Oov.. you can't compare them. And besides, nada has waaay more experience than oov. Yes. Absolutely! And with Boxer's triumphs and long list of experiences hes automatically the top in the world right now too, right? I guess him being lack luster for the last months/year doesnt mean anything. Obviously experience and players history means more than the present. No one has claimed Oov to be the best the game has ever saw, the amount of games played bit is old in this thread aswell. i guess you have no concept of time, because then some of you guys would understand what the emphasis of NOW meant. He is playing great now, and possibly at a level higher than even Nada and Nal_Ra, making him the best.... now....
Amen brotha.
|
On March 15 2004 16:18 x[ReaPeR]x wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 15:58 GoDHovZ wrote: and nadas list is 10x bigger and better than iloves What has NaDa done RECENTLY compared to Oov?
only won the biggest money tourney ever, while only losing 1 game in the whole thing?
|
Exactly everyone thought Hero-Toss Reach was gonna change the game after SKY.
Then someone else came... then someone else came back...
Dont worry about whos the best, just worry about whos playing *their* best.
|
|
I'm a tremendous Iloveoov fan and quite honestly, I hate Nada.
But the fact remains that Nada has accomplished WAY more than Oov to this day. Oov has a ways to go as far as I'm concerned.
|
On March 15 2004 16:38 GoDHovZ wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 16:14 A3iL3r0n wrote: OMFG Lebron James is a better player than Michael Jordan!
No. perfect
who is better right now? lebron james is. who had a better career? jordan.
try to comprehend what you are arguing before you make an ass out of yourself
|
THE QUESTION IS, "WHO IS BETTER RIGHT NOW?", NOT "WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED MORE IN THEIR CAREERS?"
I never tried to argue that oov has accomplished more. but most people in this thread seem to believe that accomplishments = presnt skill level. By this idiotic reasoning, sync, themarine, and grrr are better than oov, which everyone knows is not true.
in the last year, oov dominated both team leagues and TG-MSL, while nada dominated kt-ktf. imo, oov has been much more impressive than nada over the last year, and i think most people would agree with me
I said that if oov beats nada in the MSL finals, he should be considered the best player in the world, as of that moment. he is NOT a one hit wonder like everyone else people are comparing him too.
People are also using arbitrary guidelines in their judgement. what sample size is large enough? If iloveoov had an overall record of 100-10, is that still not a large enough sample size? what about 150-10?
like i said before, almost all hardcore fans and pro gamers knew that nada was the best player in the world before he won OGN. i guess it just takes people a while to realize things.
even if oov beats nada in MSL, nada may still be better; its impossible to conclusively say so. its just fucking annoying that people are attacking my arguement without understanding what i'm even saying
|
On March 15 2004 16:38 GoDHovZ wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 16:14 A3iL3r0n wrote: OMFG Lebron James is a better player than Michael Jordan!
No. perfect
it woudl be more like lebron james is better than kobe not jordan
|
oov was trained by boxer?!?!
|
iv'e seen only one game that oov played, he did good, but i still cant bolive that oov was trained by boxer !?!?!? ('.')
|
On March 15 2004 16:56 benzoic-acid wrote: THE QUESTION IS, "WHO IS BETTER RIGHT NOW?", NOT "WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED MORE IN THEIR CAREERS?"
even if oov beats nada in MSL, nada may still be better; its impossible to conclusively say so. its just fucking annoying that people are attacking my arguement without understanding what i'm even saying
I am understanding what you are saying. You, however, do not seem to understand what you are saying. My point, and HovZ's point exactly coincides with you last point. "even if oov beats nada in MSL, nada may still be better; its impossible to conclusively say so." Exactly. It is my opinion that oov beating nada in their last seies of 3 means nothing. It proves nothing except oov can beat nada and that he is a very very skilled player. oov is not better right now, and I seriously doubt he will ever be as good as nada. Just as you said, it can not be proven. Even if they played a bo15. It still would be open to doubts.
Have you ever lost to a player that you know you are better than? This inferior player then goes on to lose to people that you regularly beat. So who is better? You, because you win vs everyone else? Or him, because he can beat you, the #1 player? This is no way is an example or nada and oov, but it just serves to reinforce the point that accomplishments, and even series outcomes do not really equate with skill. How "skilled" a player is can only be judged by how he typically performs and plays. It is so closely linked to the style of play that you like as well as you whims.
You opinion is that oov is better, mine is that nada is better. Can you really not understand how I can be "attacking" your argument? I'm not, I am simply disagreeing with you for all the reasons that I have previously stated.
BTW, in case you are unclear on exactly how WCG prelims are handled, in Korea especailly, they ALL, including pro players like yellow, had to try out. This means that Ogogo indirectly, by tournament process is "better" than yellow, nal_ra, nada, AND iloveoov, etc. Of course I do not belive that, it is ABSURD to claim that Ogogo is anything more than semi-pro. Yet somehow, in a tournament participated in by all of korea, except boxer, AND the entire rest of the world, he wins. My point once again, since you do not seem to be able to understand my argument, is that oov won a tournament, big wooptie do. Go dance around a campfire and hold hands with all the pro players that lost in korea's wcg prelim. maybe you can console them since evidently, to you, Ogogo > all pro players during the months of WCG.
Edit: I just reread your post and you state that Oov is not a one hit wonder because.....you say he isnt. So is he a two hit wonder then? A three hit wonder? Three and a half? You stated earlier that accomplishments mean nothing, yet your talking about them right now. So stick with your own guidline. We ARE talking about someone that as of right NOW is a one hit wonder. (if this is his second victory over nada, which I doubt, then he is a two hit wonder) It is up to him to prove to me time and again that he is something more than that. Please do not offer categorization of how people will play in the future. To do so seems infinitly more ridiculous than to speak about past accomplishments.
|
Sweden1225 Posts
On March 15 2004 16:54 benzoic-acid wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 16:38 GoDHovZ wrote: On March 15 2004 16:14 A3iL3r0n wrote: OMFG Lebron James is a better player than Michael Jordan!
No. perfect who is better right now? lebron james is. who had a better career? jordan. try to comprehend what you are arguing before you make an ass out of yourself
I must say Hovz sentence consisting of only 1 word said all that.. =P
|
|
On March 15 2004 16:18 SW)RIF wrote: morons need not respond  I think you confused best in the world right now, with the best ever, which not one person has claimed. So A3iL3r0n go away~
Ehn, basically people are using the term "best" when they should be using the term "hottest". Should I go into the semantics implied meaning? No? I will anyway. "Best" implies performance over a period of time, not by its explicit definition, but by the way people use the word "best". While "hottest", on the other hand, definitely implies a short period. So if someone asked me, "Who is the best player in the league?" I would say Nada. If someone asked me, "Who is the hottest player in the league?" I guess I would say Oov judging from his statistics.
In other words, if you took the topic blurb and replaced "best" with "hottest" there wouldn't be so many replies.
|
Even if oov beat nada in a serie of 100, this only prove oov is better tvt...thats 33% of the player -.- (but considering most pros are ran its maybe more than 33% but still) Nada is probably better tvp, not sure about tvz.
|
United Kingdom2674 Posts
I never tried to argue that oov has accomplished more. but most people in this thread seem to believe that accomplishments = presnt skill level. By this idiotic reasoning, sync, themarine, and grrr are better than oov, which everyone knows is not true.
I think the point a lot of people are making is that while oov is on fire he has, as yet, not done enough to demonstrate that he is the best and is going to be able to maintain that level. They are loathe to bestow the title of best player on someone based on the current evidence. I think most people agree that oov is hottest player at the present time.
|
im still trying to understand how can people say oov>nada just because oov has been on a streak, and they are acting like nada is losing a shitload of games or something. NADA is still owning everyone, so how is it that now that oov beats pros also he is automatically>nada?
|
If oov wins 3-0 against nada and completely dominates him in the upcoming MBC matches, I might consider the possibility that he may be better than nada. But the big thing for me is that oov needs to prove himself in 1v1 tourneys other than the MBC also known as the terran map tournament. He has been impressive in team leagues, there's no doubt about that. But you can't compare that to the real thing. That's like saying someone is the greatest tennis player because they did well at the davis cup. The true measure of skill is in the majors. You guys must remember nada has won every league out there at least once, and over the past year, he's almost always in contention, even if he doesn't win. Oov hasn't even played in a single OGN league yet. I somewhat agree with this argument about current performance, but oov has to dominate for a little more than 2 terran map tourneys to take over nada's throne. Especially when nada dominated like god himself in the KTF tourney which was very recent. Not to mention he's dominated for well over a year already, with no big slumps in between. A 10% advantage in winning percentage in 1/5th the number of games played, doesn't really mean that much statistically. And if you take into context that a lot of those games were team league games, oftentimes against 2nd tier pros, then it means even less. example: "Iloveoov > Crystal[Inca] on detonation"
|
|
On March 15 2004 20:15 Ace wrote: im still trying to understand how can people say oov>nada just because oov has been on a streak
they can say that simply because oov is on a streak that has lasted a decent amount of time, and shows no signs of getting worse. (edit: they can say that oov might be becoming > nada, not just saying oov > nada) hes doing better than nada statistics-wise *very recently*. maybe its just oov is on a streak that will end. this thread post was just a guy thinking it might not be just a streak, and that he actually is becoming better than nada. all you extremists are just blatantly wrong... HovZ says records and statistics and winning tournaments mean nothing. that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. other people say the only thing that matters is that iloveoov has better recent stats than nada. that is also definitely wrong. there is no 100% way to say who is best *right now*. thats why this guy made this post, asking where people think the middle ground is. when does someone be considered the best player *right now*? i think its pitiful how stupid people are, because there are very few posts talking about the middle ground, which is what this thread was all about. theres just a bunch of extremes, which are obviously wrong, and a couple people who have the right idea
|
|
I think since Oov has higher stats then Nada that it means that Oov has better stats than Nada.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On March 15 2004 22:03 Vi)Chris wrote: I think since Oov has higher stats then Nada that it means that Oov has better stats than Nada. Mistyped or purposely being redundant?
|
1 thing people need to realize is that the real question is, what the definition of "best" is. If the definition is clear, saying that its overall achievements. Anyone could just paste all achievements of both players(tricky logic, yes?) and make a comparison.
Pre-edit: People cant "realize"
|
United Kingdom2674 Posts
On March 15 2004 23:30 Klogon wrote: Show nested quote +On March 15 2004 22:03 Vi)Chris wrote: I think since Oov has higher stats then Nada that it means that Oov has better stats than Nada. Mistyped or purposely being redundant?
He is denying the relevance of those stats to the argument, and maintaining that Oov's superior stats do not demonstrate that he is a superior player.
I hope I have interpreted the post correctly.
|
absolutely...iloveoov owns+__+
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Nada has been owning everyone that I think the broodwar community has gotten used to it. Nobody was surprised when Nada won the ktf tournament losing only once. We are used to nada, however iloveoov is like a new sensation. People love newcomers that burst into the scene with sparks flying everywhere.
As HovZ noted earlier, for the amount of games nada has played, his stats are fucking awesome. The only way we can compare statistics is that we take iloveoov's statistics atm with Nada's stats at the time he had played as many games as iloveoov, not his overral stats cuz the numbers are way too different. I think we will have a striking similarity. Even then we cannot say who is better cuz of stats cuz the more games you play, the harder it is to be consistant. Nada is doing a great job.
Right now Iloveoov is the most dangerous player because he just defeated the most feared playeres in the world without much difficulty: nada and yellow. To say he is better than nada you have to wait and see, consistancy is the only thing that matters. This guy has not even been in a ogn tournament yet which has arguably much tougher competition and pressure.
|
the stats are misleading. NaDa has played pretty much 3x as many games as oov, over time I'm pretty sure oov will eventually drop off. Lets face it, NaDa is rediculously consistent, and oov hasn't even been in the Starleague.
|
the last 2 posts are pretty much what I was waiting to hear.
|
oov has had a good fucking streak for a short period compared to Nada's incredable streak over a much much longer period.
How the fuck can anyone think oov is better then nada?
|
MURICA15980 Posts
That's the point, you can't use "longer period" if somebody is better at the moment. I'm not saying oov is better, but that fact is, somebody can still be better than nada even if he hasn't been owning for a year. He hasn't "proven" it to the fans, but he could still be better.
|
Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
Nada has to practice a lot more maps than Iloveoov since he's in every tourney, quite a disadvantage...
|
|
|
"best" in my opinion is the person most likely to win. The best player on earth right now is the player most likely to win a game/series right now. Going back to the old mensrea post, if you're life depended on a best of 3 or 5 series, and you didn't know the race and identity of your opponent, who would you pick to play for you. I think that's the simplest way to describe best. And I would pick nada in a heartbeat.
|
On March 16 2004 22:12 tenbagger wrote: "best" in my opinion is the person most likely to win. The best player on earth right now is the player most likely to win a game/series right now. Going back to the old mensrea post, if you're life depended on a best of 3 or 5 series, and you didn't know the race and identity of your opponent, who would you pick to play for you. I think that's the simplest way to describe best. And I would pick nada in a heartbeat.
i agree on pretty much everything you wrote. all i would add is that if oov beats nada again, then you at least have to consider him
|
If a player won ALL his pro matches, going like 50-0 and winning MSL, OGN challenge and star league, would you not consider that player the best? this has nothing to do with oov and nada, i'm just wondering where people draw the arbitrary benchmarks that they have done while attacking me.
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On March 16 2004 22:59 benzoic-acid wrote: If a player won ALL his pro matches, going like 50-0 and winning MSL, OGN challenge and star league, would you not consider that player the best? this has nothing to do with oov and nada, i'm just wondering where people draw the arbitrary benchmarks that they have done while attacking me.
going undefeated 50-0 is godly. Iloveoov is not even close to being undefeated. If he has gone undefeated against ALL the elite gamers out there than there is something to talk about.
Nada has played so many more games so it is unfair to compare stats like how you have been doing it. I am a lot more sure about nada's capabilities because he has been doing it for a longer time, he is consistant. Whereas you will never know if Iloveoov will pull a reach and disappear.
|
Sorry for another one of these topics, but I feel its relevant now. It will be interesting to hear what people say
|
heh, Oov proved his worth a second time, nothing more can be said other than iloveoov > NaDa at the moment. GL in the future Oov.
|
oov is the dominant one +_+;; Every pro gamer fears him+_+
|
United States33454 Posts
get with the times -_-
ppl were calling iloveoov the best since last year -_-
|
|
if your comparing stats for current best player wouldn't you need to use current stats for both players instead of from the beginning of career stats? otherwise your comparing apples to oranges so to speak.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
oov's the best right now.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
I'm accually looking forward to the OGN group pickings, but I won't be able to stay up that late. sigh.
|
Look at all the bandwagon IloveOov votes.
Hi, I'm 13, I play starcraft.
|
Yea not many people supported Benzoic when he/she first made this post. (Aside from a few like me and Kickdog) i wouldnt be suprised now that oov took another series, that the majority said they expected it.
|
|
Russian Federation1020 Posts
Uhh, since when has Nal_Ra dominated Nada/oov?
|
MURICA15980 Posts
Gamers fear oov over ra. I trust them. Plus oov beat ra recently.
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 21 2004 19:43 Klogon wrote: Gamers fear oov over ra. I trust them. Plus oov beat ra recently.
Okey doke
|
On March 14 2004 19:57 NuclearAntelope wrote: i saw his vod vs yellow, that was some impressive stuff in u-boat. probably the best vod ive ever seen, with 20 minutes of hunting down buildings while yellow kept making more 
link please?
|
MURICA15980 Posts
If you haven't seen the game, go watch it now. Look for oov versus yellow or something, I gotta go do something.
|
why wasnt hovz on that list?..
|
On April 21 2004 19:56 Klogon wrote: If you haven't seen the game, go watch it now. Look for oov versus yellow or something, I gotta go do something.
cant find in either wgtour or tl.net reps section.
|
Is there a oov replay pack floating around anywhere? Most of the ones from yaoyuan seem to be 1.09 =(
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On April 21 2004 20:01 myaccountmessup wrote: Show nested quote +On April 21 2004 19:56 Klogon wrote: If you haven't seen the game, go watch it now. Look for oov versus yellow or something, I gotta go do something. cant find in either wgtour or tl.net reps section. It's not a replay, it's an MBCGame MSL final game from last season. Try yaoyuan.
|
|
|
Canada5062 Posts
On March 16 2004 22:12 tenbagger wrote: "best" in my opinion is the person most likely to win. The best player on earth right now is the player most likely to win a game/series right now. Going back to the old mensrea post, if you're life depended on a best of 3 or 5 series, and you didn't know the race and identity of your opponent, who would you pick to play for you. I think that's the simplest way to describe best. And I would pick nada in a heartbeat.
Ah, yes. The 'ol "if your life depended on it" test. I think that works.
|
|
i think ilove is the best right now
|
enoughzerg is best player ever. check out season 6 wgt rep packs of him. I believe he beat hovz like 20-2 in wgt
|
I think, even if players weren't to fear nal_ra more than oov, that ra could beat oov every time. his pvt is flawless
|
On April 21 2004 20:47 FancyZerg wrote: enoughzerg is best player ever. check out season 6 wgt rep packs of him. I believe he beat hovz like 20-2 in wgt
wtf, someone beat hovz?!?!
|
On April 21 2004 20:55 RuGbUg wrote: I think, even if players weren't to fear nal_ra more than oov, that ra could beat oov every time. his pvt is flawless
i'm pretty sure oov has a winning record vs ra
|
i think i would take ra over anyone. i would trust ra with my life rather than oov. oov is owning mbc, but ra just got 2 top 4 finishes in mbc as well as two top 2 finishes in ogn, including a win in each. when oov starts doing it in ogn as well ill consider placing him as #1.
but until then, ra's got him.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
oov owns OGN pro league. (you know, the team one?)
|
I would put my life in NaDa's hands as tenbagger said. There is no way his mannered self would let me die. He's been looking rugged lately. Also, if you noticed Game 4, NaDa got desperate to end the series when he should of just played ooV out on the map and possibly could of won. ooV is good no doubt, and maybe he will be the best someday but for now in my opinion, NaDa still is the best. I want to see how ooV does in OGN.
|
United States33454 Posts
|
so what does his name mean anyay. He loves oov, the smiley ? or that means something specific in korean ?
|
I think he just loves and then gives the victory sign ^^v
|
hey i'm new around here so take me slow  if any one can help i would like some replays whit this great player called iloveoov cause i don't have more then 10 reps whit him... 10x
|
MURICA15980 Posts
He's new so it's hard to find any recent recent replays of him, just go watch Nada, he's just as good.
|
United States33454 Posts
On April 22 2004 00:01 pOc)Casper wrote: hey i'm new around here so take me slow  if any one can help i would like some replays whit this great player called iloveoov cause i don't have more then 10 reps whit him... 10x
hi casper :D
|
MURICA15980 Posts
|
Does anybody know what "oov" means?
A girl? A guy?! or something else
|
On April 22 2004 07:05 Toasted_Zergling wrote: Does anybody know what "oov" means?
A girl? A guy?! or something else
2 eyes and 2 fingers
|
why did you even bother to include protoss or zerg on that poll
|
ra has never beaten oov -_-;;
|
On April 22 2004 07:12 SoMuchBetter wrote: why did you even bother to include protoss or zerg on that poll
Because we are sick of terran~!!~~!d+_+b
|
I think it's rediculous to say that oov dominated the msl thing that much when nada dominated it equally in the other bracket but lost by one game in the finals.
it may put oov ahead in that tourney but not by much, then there's what oov is doing elsewhere to consider, and nada too.
i don't know EXACTLY where they stand in othere tournies so i won't comment on that.
|
At this pro lvl, I think that motivation is also an important percentage for the success... and I'm sure that iloveoov is much more motivated... NaDa is perhaps a little bit tired of being the best 
|
if u guys actually look at the brackets and the amount of games played and the maps its hard to argue that 1 or 2 players dominated simply because they won 1 series or so against a specific player here or there :|
|
my single vote put nada and oov even, hahahahaha. though i'm not a Terran fan. goodfriend looks like another xellos: semi-automatic but doesn't show many strategic varieties.
|
now that oov has become the "man to beat", people will start to put his plays under microscrope and study him insideout. Then we're more likely to see him upset by some determined challengers, like the way Ra is upset on guillotine.
|
nada is constantly a really really great gamer, so i vote for him. oov has to stay at the top for a long time to beat nada's statistics
|
its not about stats or accomplishments, its about who you think is the best right now
|
u all say that nada is the best even tho oov won ...and i agree whit u if u beat the best player (nada) that doesen't meen that u're the best...
|
But if you beat him twice?-_-;
|
ok let's say oov is better then nada but he's not the best sc player... agree?
|
3-2 is really a close match, and what was it the time before that? I still think NaDa is better, though.
|
|
dude the more games u play the lower percentages get -_-
|
Most responses are laughable. Playing favorites really isnt the intention of Benzoics post, but to tell you the truth, his question is rhetorical to any open minded person. So the thread would be less interesting without these bias responses.
All valuable analogies have already been played out, but for you refusing to read it here it is again. If we went by the history of someones success or even their successful tenure, than Boxer is the best player RIGHT NOW hands down. But oh wait, he isnt, he loses to nada, who loses oov.
|
On March 14 2004 20:16 AutumnLight wrote: he was trained by Boxer after all..
Boxer, GO GO GO
He's 4th place
...
You people need to stop disrespecting god of Starcraft. I guess the next best thing to Boxer raping Nada severely this year is having Oov be best player overall in the next year or so. Boxer has to pass on his legacy sometime. [ ~ Cough ~ Never. ]
|
I really want to see how Iloveoov fairs in the next KTF league. I hope he's in the same bracket as Nada as well. o_O
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On April 22 2004 07:56 Resonate wrote: I think it's rediculous to say that oov dominated the msl thing that much when nada dominated it equally in the other bracket but lost by one game in the finals. Nada dominated the LOSERS bracket.
|
On April 22 2004 18:22 Klogon wrote: Show nested quote +On April 22 2004 07:56 Resonate wrote: I think it's rediculous to say that oov dominated the msl thing that much when nada dominated it equally in the other bracket but lost by one game in the finals. Nada dominated the LOSERS bracket. 
sometimes players lose intentionally to go to the losers bracket and avoid troublesome matchups. ie) going to the losers bracket to avoid oov
|
why wouldnt u avoid going to the loser bracket anyways since.. if u fail, U END UP IN THE LOSER BRACKET ANYWAYS? hm? unless the format is diff or something. why would u intentionally go to loser bracket i dont understand
anyways its hard to just compare two players vs eachother because then ur talking about one matchup. what about tvz, what about tvp? if a player is best at tvt, but a diff player is stronger tvp, tvz, if u go by their vs matchup, the tvt player still win out. if u want to count a player only for their tvt then there are players besides oov and nada that might have a shot if all pros had to focus on was tvt.
|
he ain't the best until he wins and wins and wins
|
ILoveOov, best SC player in the world at the moment. End.
|
|
On April 21 2004 21:20 BigBalls wrote: i think i would take ra over anyone. i would trust ra with my life rather than oov. oov is owning mbc, but ra just got 2 top 4 finishes in mbc as well as two top 2 finishes in ogn, including a win in each. when oov starts doing it in ogn as well ill consider placing him as #1.
but until then, ra's got him.
Ra in last MSL, 7-3, finished fourth, LOSING to nada AND oov. oov in last MSL, 9-3, finsihed first, BEATING nada AND ra Ra in trigem MSL (before last one), 1-2, finished like tied for 9th with four others Oov in trigem MSL, 14-2, beat nada 3-1, yellow 3-0, friend 2-0
You shouldnt give ra's win, in the MSL before that, as much weight imo since it was almost a year ago.
and whoever the heck said that nada might have purposely went to the loser's bracket.....first, that makes no sense at all. second, oov dominated loser's bracket in Trigem MSL, going 11-1
people say pro league doesnt really count, and i agree to a certain point, since players dont prepare that hard for it. but it still is the top players all playing on maps they're familiar with, and oov owned them all. in MBC team league, when one player keeps on playing until he loses, oov would consistently take out three players (or entire teams!). Even in the finals of the last mbcgame team league, when KTF chose oov to play first, oov ended up beating three people that KTF threw at him.
seriously, oov has dominated everyone in every league he has been in, except for two challenge leagues and the challenge league tourney which didnt even really count. nada, in the last year or so, won kt-ktf, did poorly in OGN starleague, and got beat by oov twice in five game series in MSL.
|
On April 26 2004 22:16 benzoic-acid wrote: Show nested quote +On April 21 2004 21:20 BigBalls wrote: i think i would take ra over anyone. i would trust ra with my life rather than oov. oov is owning mbc, but ra just got 2 top 4 finishes in mbc as well as two top 2 finishes in ogn, including a win in each. when oov starts doing it in ogn as well ill consider placing him as #1.
but until then, ra's got him. Ra in last MSL, 7-3, finished fourth, LOSING to nada AND oov. oov in last MSL, 9-3, finsihed first, BEATING nada AND ra Ra in trigem MSL (before last one), 1-2, finished like tied for 9th with four others Oov in trigem MSL, 14-2, beat nada 3-1, yellow 3-0, friend 2-0 You shouldnt give ra's win, in the MSL before that, as much weight imo since it was almost a year ago. and whoever the heck said that nada might have purposely went to the loser's bracket.....first, that makes no sense at all. second, oov dominated loser's bracket in Trigem MSL, going 11-1 people say pro league doesnt really count, and i agree to a certain point, since players dont prepare that hard for it. but it still is the top players all playing on maps they're familiar with, and oov owned them all. in MBC team league, when one player keeps on playing until he loses, oov would consistently take out three players (or entire teams!). Even in the finals of the last mbcgame team league, when KTF chose oov to play first, oov ended up beating three people that KTF threw at him. seriously, oov has dominated everyone in every league he has been in, except for two challenge leagues and the challenge league tourney which didnt even really count. nada, in the last year or so, won kt-ktf, did poorly in OGN starleague, and got beat by oov twice in five game series in MSL.
You are a genius. Thank you.
|
i voted for nal_ra i think hes capable of much more that he is showing now.
we will see
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On April 26 2004 22:16 benzoic-acid wrote: Ra in last MSL, 7-3, finished fourth, LOSING to nada AND oov. oov in last MSL, 9-3, finsihed first, BEATING nada AND ra Ra in trigem MSL (before last one), 1-2, finished like tied for 9th with four others Oov in trigem MSL, 14-2, beat nada 3-1, yellow 3-0, friend 2-0
You shouldnt give ra's win, in the MSL before that, as much weight imo since it was almost a year ago.
and whoever the heck said that nada might have purposely went to the loser's bracket.....first, that makes no sense at all. second, oov dominated loser's bracket in Trigem MSL, going 11-1
people say pro league doesnt really count, and i agree to a certain point, since players dont prepare that hard for it. but it still is the top players all playing on maps they're familiar with, and oov owned them all. in MBC team league, when one player keeps on playing until he loses, oov would consistently take out three players (or entire teams!). Even in the finals of the last mbcgame team league, when KTF chose oov to play first, oov ended up beating three people that KTF threw at him.
seriously, oov has dominated everyone in every league he has been in, except for two challenge leagues and the challenge league tourney which didnt even really count. nada, in the last year or so, won kt-ktf, did poorly in OGN starleague, and got beat by oov twice in five game series in MSL. Very nice work with the stats. I knew they were similar to that, but it still surprised me in some parts. Expect oov to do big things in OGN, he'll get out of his hard group. He'll also own up KT-KTF, just watch.
|
This is funny.
OoV fans: remnants of Boxer's fanbase. Nada fans: need to learn some respect
Me? I prefer to be sucking on a 12 inch dong.
|
|
|
|