Jju vs Yellow[arnc] OSL 2006 Peaks of Baekdu ZvZ 4poolWin GGplay vs OversKy 2008 Katrina ZvZ 5poolWin Jju vs Reach 2006 Rush Hour ZvP 5poolWin Nal.Keke vs Bisu 2009 Neo Medusa ZvP5pool (exTr-Lings-late game) Loss** Jaedong vs Index 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win Luxury vs YoonJoong 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Win*** Luxury vs Bisu 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Win July vs Great 2009 God's Garden ZvZ 5poolLoss Jaedong vs Fantasy 2009 Holy World ZvT 4poolWin Kwanro vs Calm 2009 Carthage 3 ZvZ 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss Jaedong vs sKyHigh 2009 Rush Hour 3 ZvT 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss July vs BeSt 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win July vs Casy 2004 Requiem ZvT 4poolWin Luxury vs Bisu 2008 Troy ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings-late game) Win 815 vs Bisu 2009 Fighting Spirit ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Loss Jaedong vs Free 2009 Tau Cross ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss Jaedong vs Stork 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings) Win Jaedong vs Hwasin 2008 Athena ZvT 4poolWin* Luxury vs Leta 2009 Destination ZvT 5poolWin MenSol[Zero] vs Bisu 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win**** FireFist vs sKyHigh 2009 Colosseum II ZvT 4poolLoss Savior vs Casy 2007 Reverse Lost Temple ZvT 5pool (Lord before lings!) Win Savior vs Jangbi 2008 Athena ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings-late game)Win Hyvaa vs S2 2009 God's Garden ZvZ 4poolLoss Effort v Idra 2009 Neo Medusa ZvT 5pool (exTr-Lings) Win Luxury vs Mind 2008 Troy ZvT 4poolWin Luxury vs Flash 2008 Katrina ZvT 4poolLoss Firefist vs Ruby 2009 Ultimatum ZvT 4poolWin
Let me know if I missed any.
**** Can't tell because it switches to Bisu FPview, I think he made drones though based on how the econ looks when it goes back to ob view. *** Can't really tell what the build was, based on minimap and following PvZ medusa game I would assume it was a lord followed by a drone and 2 sets of lings. **Link to related thread * Bad English commentator/stream etc. Anyone have a better one? Videos of the above list:
Bonus Stats & Observations: Total games: 28 (19-9) 67.8%
Versus Protoss: Total games: 12 (9-3) 75%
Versus Zerg: Total ZvZ 5 (2-3) 40%
Versus Terran: Total games: 11 (8-3) 72%
Weirdest build award: Luxury vs Leta 2009 Destination ZvT Runner up: Savior vs Casy 2007 Reverse Lost Temple ZvT
WTF award: FireFist vs sKyHigh 2009 Colosseum II ZvT Runner up: Nal.Keke vs Bisu 2009 Neo Medusa
Win/Loss for 4 & 5 Pools: 4pool Total games 9 (6-3) 66.67 % 5pool Total games 19 (13-6) 68.42%
Usage of 4 & 5 Pools: As most of you are probably already aware, 4 and 5 pools work almost equally for ZvT, and ZvZ, yet for ZvP only 5 pool works. This may be due to the fact that a few second earlier lings make no difference in the early game Protoss defense, and that most ZvP games do not (usually can not) win early game. The exceptions of early game wins may be regarded as flukes, where the Protoss made a fatal risky build order/micro mistake.
Stats of 5 pool + Extractor tricks: 7-2 77.78% Short games: 2-0 100% Long games: 5-2 71.4%
Best Matchup for Success in a Short Game: Terran. Interestingly, only 1 game out of 11 made it to long game and the zerg lost.
Best Matchup for Success in a Long Game: Protoss. Again, Interestingly, only 3 games out of 12 were short games (2-1).
Best Matchup for Success Overall: ZvP, As shown ZvP has a winning record in both short and long games. This means that even if the game doesn't win outright, it still has a very good chance later on, unlike ZvT (even though both have very good win percentages regardless of length).
Worst Matchup for Success Overall: Zerg, granted this is the least used in this matchup/game sample (but probably for good reason). With ZvZ being such a specific matchup the games either win or lose outright. There is never a late game recovery or advantage gain, similar to ZvT. This was the only matchup where the strategy had a losing record.
Top 5 Rushers: Luxury (5-1), Jaedong (4-2) (tie) 6 July (2-1) 3 JJu (2-0), Savior (2-0), FireFist (1-1) (tie) 2
JD and Luxury have a lot more more 5pools I think. Luxury vs Bisu on Troy comes to mind. JD also 5poold Stork in WCG korea finals, he also 5poold free + Hwasin once I think too. It's funny how the best Zerg who ever played the game is the one who 5pools the most in live games.
Now I am pissed off that JD lost 2 all kills in WL due to him 5pooling T.T. He wouldve all killed CJ + WJ if he didnt 5pool , oh well it won him 2 bo5s, so why should I complain.
On January 29 2010 22:18 samachking wrote: JD and Luxury have a lot more more 5pools I think. Luxury vs Bisu on Troy comes to mind. JD also 5poold Stork in WCG korea finals, he also 5poold free + Hwasin once I think too. It's funny how the best Zerg who ever played the game is the one who 5pools the most in live games.
not funny, If you compare it to poker - good players keep a whole arsenal of tactics and strategies, they use each one in different amounts. So for example a good player would mix it up and throw out a bluff 1 out of 6 flops. This is the same thing, keeping players scared/honest.
There's another 5 pool against sKyHigh on Colloseum II right?
he gets 5pooled AND sunken rushed and holds the sunkens slowly until he can build a barracks to float and counter. Don't remember against who.
Kwanro also went 5 pool + sunken rush on some 2 player jungle map. Against another zerg (calm?). He doesnt kill shit with his first lings and gets countered by muta. He FE'd as a follow up.
On January 29 2010 23:51 CharlieMurphy wrote: ty Oystein and SnowFantasy. Snow was that a casted game? I found a bunch of commentary reps but they are kinda bad
I honestly don't remember which Blizzcon games were played on stage. If you can't find a cast for it and only get a bunch of casted replays I'd say no it wasn't.
The Zero vs Bisu on Othello will probably be my favourite 4/5pool game of all time simply because of how Zero did NO damage with the build as Bisu defended with probes and cannons at his nat. Bisu didn't lose his forge, and went fe fairly normally.
And then Zero won through some of the best management I have ever seen. Completely nonsensical, and it was the first game where I thought "wow, Zero is a serious beast".
I know there is one on Requiem that was a 4 pool where the Zerg eventually won with Guardians, I'll see if I can find it in TLPD (I doubt it, since I forgot who was playing, and I'm 99% sure it won't have a VOD associated with it).
On January 30 2010 00:52 Alur wrote: I think it was July who 5pooled a P in gom season 2.
That game was hilarious. Vs Spear on Neo Medusa.
edit : July has to have a ton of these. There's also his one vs Best in the OSL finals, which is up there, but he's an old-school player who certainly has probably a dozen or so.
On January 30 2010 01:02 koreasilver wrote: The Zero vs Bisu on Othello will probably be my favourite 4/5pool game of all time simply because of how Zero did NO damage with the build as Bisu defended with probes and cannons at his nat. Bisu didn't lose his forge, and went fe fairly normally.
And then Zero won through some of the best management I have ever seen. Completely nonsensical, and it was the first game where I thought "wow, Zero is a serious beast".
Bisu had a wrist injury and missed significant amount of time after this game. Under normal circumstances Zero would've been rolled.
On January 30 2010 01:02 koreasilver wrote: The Zero vs Bisu on Othello will probably be my favourite 4/5pool game of all time simply because of how Zero did NO damage with the build as Bisu defended with probes and cannons at his nat. Bisu didn't lose his forge, and went fe fairly normally.
And then Zero won through some of the best management I have ever seen. Completely nonsensical, and it was the first game where I thought "wow, Zero is a serious beast".
Bisu had a wrist injury and missed significant amount of time after this game. Under normal circumstances Zero would've been rolled.
On January 30 2010 02:10 hasuprotoss wrote: I know there is one on Requiem that was a 4 pool where the Zerg eventually won with Guardians, I'll see if I can find it in TLPD (I doubt it, since I forgot who was playing, and I'm 99% sure it won't have a VOD associated with it).
interesting thread and interesting response about the guy comparing the 4/5 pool to a poker play. I don't like when people call it "cheese", but I too throw out the random proxy gate and/or 8rax from time to time.
Most of the time people shit talk me as if i do it every game, but if you look up my matchlist I don't. These strats are why I usually play a safer style.
Magma Vs SoO Medusa ZvP 5pool (Lord-Late Game) Win thanks - coulda killed the 1st gate with a few lings outside of canon range when it was warping. But wow this is a good game.
That is the best 4pool mind game LOL :D I love these videos seeing even pro's fail/succeed in cheesing :D
That's funny. I ALWAYS try to do that when I get the opportunity, but the caliber of players I play never fall for it. definitely going into one of the recommended categories in op though.
PS- anyone have a backup for the effort vs idra. Uploader removed it for some reason..
Chojja 5pooled Iris in Shinhan1 back in 2006 on Rush Hour. Iris defended it, but Chojja fought his way back to win. The VOD is not in TLPD, but maybe someone has it.
On September 12 2010 14:37 Guybrush wrote: Chojja 5pooled Iris in Shinhan1 back in 2006 on Rush Hour. Iris defended it, but Chojja fought his way back to win. The VOD is not in TLPD, but maybe someone has it.
If this is true, then this is the only ZvT 5pool late game win
There was a 4-pool in the gomtv season 2 i believe done by july... He 4 pools and he fails except he has 2 lings in the toss base that basically kills every probe the toss had... it was pretty sad on both sides lol. July ended up winning though.
On September 12 2010 14:37 Guybrush wrote: Chojja 5pooled Iris in Shinhan1 back in 2006 on Rush Hour. Iris defended it, but Chojja fought his way back to win. The VOD is not in TLPD, but maybe someone has it.
If this is true, then this is the only ZvT 5pool late game win
Yeah I thought it was impressive. He wasnt that far behind though, because he only made 6 lings, and Iris bunkered. Might be slightly comparable to + Show Spoiler +
Flash vs JD on Polaris, except I think Flash lost way more scvs
EPT![[image loading]](http://i50.tinypic.com/2zjcrar.png)
, oh well it won him 2 bo5s, so why should I complain.
. V. Flash on Katrina
