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Pro 4pool and 5pool Collection

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 12:48:30
January 29 2010 13:04 GMT
#1
I've got a favorite collection of 4 and 5 pool videos from pro games on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/spore5006#g/f

Jju vs Yellow[arnc] OSL 2006 Peaks of Baekdu ZvZ 4pool Win
GGplay vs OversKy 2008 Katrina ZvZ 5pool Win
Jju vs Reach 2006 Rush Hour ZvP 5pool Win
Nal.Keke vs Bisu 2009 Neo Medusa ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings-late game) Loss **
Jaedong vs Index 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win
Luxury vs YoonJoong 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Win ***
Luxury vs Bisu 2009 Medusa ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Win
July vs Great 2009 God's Garden ZvZ 5pool Loss
Jaedong vs Fantasy 2009 Holy World ZvT 4pool Win
Kwanro vs Calm 2009 Carthage 3 ZvZ 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss
Jaedong vs sKyHigh 2009 Rush Hour 3 ZvT 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss
July vs BeSt 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win
July vs Casy 2004 Requiem ZvT 4pool Win
Luxury vs Bisu 2008 Troy ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings-late game) Win
815 vs Bisu 2009 Fighting Spirit ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Loss
Jaedong vs Free 2009 Tau Cross ZvP 5pool (Lord-late game) Loss
Jaedong vs Stork 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings) Win
Jaedong vs Hwasin 2008 Athena ZvT 4pool Win *
Luxury vs Leta 2009 Destination ZvT 5pool Win
MenSol[Zero] vs Bisu 2008 Othello ZvP 5pool (exTr-Drone-late game) Win****
FireFist vs sKyHigh 2009 Colosseum II ZvT 4pool Loss
Savior vs Casy 2007 Reverse Lost Temple ZvT 5pool (Lord before lings!) Win
Savior vs Jangbi 2008 Athena ZvP 5pool (exTr-Lings-late game)Win
Hyvaa vs S2 2009 God's Garden ZvZ 4pool Loss
Effort v Idra 2009 Neo Medusa ZvT 5pool (exTr-Lings) Win
Luxury vs Mind 2008 Troy ZvT 4pool Win
Luxury vs Flash 2008 Katrina ZvT 4pool Loss
Firefist vs Ruby 2009 Ultimatum ZvT 4pool Win

Let me know if I missed any.


**** Can't tell because it switches to Bisu FPview, I think he made drones though based on how the econ looks when it goes back to ob view.
*** Can't really tell what the build was, based on minimap and following PvZ medusa game I would assume it was a lord followed by a drone and 2 sets of lings.
**Link to related thread
* Bad English commentator/stream etc. Anyone have a better one?
Videos of the above list:

+ Show Spoiler [28 Youtube VODs] +































(click to enlarge)
[image loading]


Bonus Stats & Observations:
Total games: 28 (19-9) 67.8%

Versus Protoss:
Total games: 12 (9-3) 75%

Versus Zerg:
Total ZvZ 5 (2-3) 40%

Versus Terran:
Total games: 11 (8-3) 72%

Weirdest build award:
Luxury vs Leta 2009 Destination ZvT
Runner up:
Savior vs Casy 2007 Reverse Lost Temple ZvT

WTF award:
FireFist vs sKyHigh 2009 Colosseum II ZvT
Runner up:
Nal.Keke vs Bisu 2009 Neo Medusa

Win/Loss for 4 & 5 Pools:
4pool Total games 9 (6-3) 66.67 %
5pool Total games 19 (13-6) 68.42%

Usage of 4 & 5 Pools:
As most of you are probably already aware, 4 and 5 pools work almost equally for ZvT, and ZvZ, yet for ZvP only 5 pool works. This may be due to the fact that a few second earlier lings make no difference in the early game Protoss defense, and that most ZvP games do not (usually can not) win early game. The exceptions of early game wins may be regarded as flukes, where the Protoss made a fatal risky build order/micro mistake.

Stats of 5 pool + Extractor tricks:
7-2 77.78%
Short games: 2-0 100%
Long games: 5-2 71.4%

Best Matchup for Success in a Short Game:
Terran. Interestingly, only 1 game out of 11 made it to long game and the zerg lost.

Best Matchup for Success in a Long Game:
Protoss. Again, Interestingly, only 3 games out of 12 were short games (2-1).

Best Matchup for Success Overall:
ZvP, As shown ZvP has a winning record in both short and long games.
This means that even if the game doesn't win outright, it still has a very good chance later on, unlike ZvT (even though both have very good win percentages regardless of length).

Worst Matchup for Success Overall:
Zerg, granted this is the least used in this matchup/game sample (but probably for good reason).
With ZvZ being such a specific matchup the games either win or lose outright. There is never a late game recovery or advantage gain, similar to ZvT. This was the only matchup where the strategy had a losing record.

Top 5 Rushers:
Luxury (5-1), Jaedong (4-2) (tie) 6
July (2-1) 3
JJu (2-0), Savior (2-0), FireFist (1-1) (tie) 2

Top 3 Rushed:
Bisu 5 (2-3)
Casy 2 (0-2)
Skyhigh 2 (2-0)

Top 6 Rush Defenders:
Skyhigh 2 (2-0)
Bisu 5 (2-3)
Flash, Calm, Great, S2 (tie) 1 (1-0)

Top 5 Maps for Rushes:
Medusa 5 (4-1)
Othello 3 (3-0)
Troy, Athena 2 (2-0)
Katrina, Rush Hour 2 (1-1)
God's Garden 2 (0-2)

Worst Defense Award:
Savior vs Casy 2007 Reverse Lost Temple ZvT
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
WeSt
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Portugal918 Posts
January 29 2010 13:07 GMT
#2
Bisu vs (?) PvZ @ fighting spirit. A pretty failish 5 pool btw
zvz is imba
leejas
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States440 Posts
January 29 2010 13:09 GMT
#3
first one is Jju v. Yellow[arnc]
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:13:53
January 29 2010 13:11 GMT
#4
On January 29 2010 22:07 WeSt wrote:
Bisu vs (?) PvZ @ fighting spirit. A pretty failish 5 pool btw


doesn't matter, gonna compile stats on these if I can get enough videos.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/125_Bisu/games
i don't see it though

On January 29 2010 22:09 leejas wrote:
first one is Jju v. Yellow[arnc]

ty
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9947 Posts
January 29 2010 13:14 GMT
#5
there was a 5pool game on Athena ZvP too afaik
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
arcticStorm
Profile Joined January 2009
United States295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:18:14
January 29 2010 13:15 GMT
#6
didn't Jaedong 4pool/5pool against Skyhigh during winner's league finals last year?

edit: confirmed 5 pool
edit: oops, already on list TT

VOD:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyr_q8XPPJA
This statement is a lie.
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:18:52
January 29 2010 13:16 GMT
#7
Luxury vs Bisu[Shield] [30/Jan/2008] 5set @ Bacchus OSL 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ziPWDIG8o

815 vs Bisu[Shield] [30 December, 2009] 1set @ ShinHan Bank Proleague 2009-10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXomMr2RHg
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:31:55
January 29 2010 13:18 GMT
#8
JD and Luxury have a lot more more 5pools I think. Luxury vs Bisu on Troy comes to mind. JD also 5poold Stork in WCG korea finals, he also 5poold free + Hwasin once I think too. It's funny how the best Zerg who ever played the game is the one who 5pools the most in live games.

Edit: Links
JD vs Hwasin
JD vs Free
JD vs Stork

Bisu vs Lux is posted above

Now I am pissed off that JD lost 2 all kills in WL due to him 5pooling T.T. He wouldve all killed CJ + WJ if he didnt 5pool , oh well it won him 2 bo5s, so why should I complain.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 29 2010 13:19 GMT
#9
What's the win percentage?
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
January 29 2010 13:21 GMT
#10
On January 29 2010 22:18 samachking wrote:
JD and Luxury have a lot more more 5pools I think. Luxury vs Bisu on Troy comes to mind. JD also 5poold Stork in WCG korea finals, he also 5poold free + Hwasin once I think too. It's funny how the best Zerg who ever played the game is the one who 5pools the most in live games.

not funny, If you compare it to poker - good players keep a whole arsenal of tactics and strategies, they use each one in different amounts. So for example a good player would mix it up and throw out a bluff 1 out of 6 flops. This is the same thing, keeping players scared/honest.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
January 29 2010 13:22 GMT
#11
On January 29 2010 22:19 T.O.P. wrote:
What's the win percentage?

It's mostly in favor for both 4 and 5 pools to win.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:31:20
January 29 2010 13:28 GMT
#12
luxury 5 pooled leta on destination in lost saga msl

also, zero failed a 5pool vs bisu on some map but won the game
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
January 29 2010 13:28 GMT
#13
ty jello_biafra & samachking
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
~chut~
Profile Joined September 2003
France1317 Posts
January 29 2010 13:32 GMT
#14
From gilette OSL, July vs Casy :
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/3265_Casy_vs_July/vod

chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2593 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:34:52
January 29 2010 13:34 GMT
#15
edit: u have it alrdy TT
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 13:42:42
January 29 2010 13:38 GMT
#16
On January 29 2010 22:32 ~chut~ wrote:
From gilette OSL, July vs Casy :
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/3265_Casy_vs_July/vod


it's up already

ty saltywet
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
January 29 2010 13:42 GMT
#17
Where are the games were Stork got double 5-pooled by some scrub Oz zerg
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
January 29 2010 13:48 GMT
#18
There's another 5 pool against sKyHigh on Colloseum II right?

he gets 5pooled AND sunken rushed and holds the sunkens slowly until he can build a barracks to float and counter. Don't remember against who.


Kwanro also went 5 pool + sunken rush on some 2 player jungle map. Against another zerg (calm?). He doesnt kill shit with his first lings and gets countered by muta. He FE'd as a follow up.
Moderator<:3-/-<
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
January 29 2010 13:49 GMT
#19
savior vs justin on RLT
WeSt
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Portugal918 Posts
January 29 2010 13:57 GMT
#20
On January 29 2010 22:14 RaGe wrote:
there was a 5pool game on Athena ZvP too afaik


Savior vs Jangbi.
zvz is imba
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