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The Protoss Shield Myth

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
December 21 2009 10:33 GMT
#1
So something that has bugged me for a while is hearing commentators and people on IRC talk about how when you upgrade protoss shields, all it does is upgrade the regeneration rate of said shields, and therefore is a pointless upgrade.

I believe this to be wrong. Please watch this video:


Ok so, the DT kills the probes in 2 hits (with 3hp remaining after the first dt hit) with 3 shield upgrade and 1 hit without the shield upgrade. This to me infers that the shield upgrade is just like the +armor upgrade, reducing the damage taken per hit by that life source.

Am i right? Am i wrong? Have i missed something important?

It seems to me that while in most cases armor is a better thing to upgrade, what about late game ZVP play. If the zerg is using defilers (note my own level is barely D+), and plague is destroying your units HP reguarly, wouldn't you be better off upgrading shields? seeing as they're now your only source of hit points on your units?


Anyways. Discuss.
Writer
Ftrunkz
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia2474 Posts
December 21 2009 10:36 GMT
#2
Preeeetty sure shield works just like armor upgrade, except obviously only relative to the shield health itself (and armour is only relatively to the units health after shield is gone)... I have no idea where you heard the regeneration thing but i've never heard of that :|
@NvPinder on twitter | Member of Gamecom Nv | http://www.clan-ta.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/ftrunkz | http://www.twitchtv.com/xghpinder
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
December 21 2009 10:37 GMT
#3
I've heard a few commentators say it. And people on IRC just now were saying it too. Hence what prompted me to make this post
Writer
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
6985 Posts
December 21 2009 10:37 GMT
#4
Never heard of this rumour either, if its a random youtube commentator that said that then uh..

most of them aren't exactly well informed about the game.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
December 21 2009 10:39 GMT
#5
Someone in IRC says they heard it from tasteless, i think i heard it from cholera etc etc. I'm just trying to debunk said myth, but it seems like i was the only one listening
Writer
2longbe4
Profile Joined April 2009
Poland24 Posts
December 21 2009 10:40 GMT
#6
Still you rarely see a 3/3/3 Protoss army, why is that?
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
December 21 2009 10:40 GMT
#7
afaik it's both...
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
December 21 2009 10:41 GMT
#8
On December 21 2009 19:40 2longbe4 wrote:
Still you rarely see a 3/3/3 Protoss army, why is that?

because it's unreasonably expensive
dats racist
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
December 21 2009 10:42 GMT
#9
imo the argument can be made to upgrade shields over armor when playing vs a competant zerg to combat plague
Writer
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
December 21 2009 10:43 GMT
#10
Tasteless said it during a gom cast a few seasons ago. There is some interesting discussion about it here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101820

3 shield upgrade is 400/400 so thats pretty dang expensive
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
December 21 2009 10:45 GMT
#11
Shield upgrades are the same as armor upgrades except they work on the shields instead of hp.
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
December 21 2009 10:48 GMT
#12
On December 21 2009 19:45 Mastermind wrote:
Shield upgrades are the same as armor upgrades except they work on the shields instead of hp.

blasphemy!
Cite your source
dats racist
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
December 21 2009 10:50 GMT
#13
Yeah that is BS...
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
lazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia3119 Posts
December 21 2009 10:52 GMT
#14
Yeah I remember tasteless saying it but it's not true. it works just like any armor upgrade except for shields. the reason people sometimes get confused about it is because shields take full damage from any source, so vultures will still rape goon shields even though they should only do 25% etc which confuses people
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 10:53:33
December 21 2009 10:53 GMT
#15
On December 21 2009 19:42 Kiante wrote:
imo the argument can be made to upgrade shields over armor when playing vs a competant zerg to combat plague

I guess but remember that shields are usually less than hitpoints and your zealots will take full damage in the shields from hydras. Shields are more expensive... you're best off going armor or both imo. But it's arguable I guess ;p
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
December 21 2009 10:53 GMT
#16
On December 21 2009 19:42 Kiante wrote:
imo the argument can be made to upgrade shields over armor when playing vs a competant zerg to combat plague

While this is true, there are a few things to consider
a: shields take full damage against everything, causing the shields to disappear rapidly, thus less hits (and less damage reduction) will come into play. More hits required on armor = more damage reduction.
b: shields are very expensive.
C: Plauge doesn't come into effect until the lateish game.
Therefore, Armor is almost always preferable to shields until you can actually afford shields.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, this is all really obvious.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
December 21 2009 10:54 GMT
#17
Yeah i know, it just annoys me when i hear people go on about shield regen so i made this thread
Writer
soudo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
603 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 11:01:25
December 21 2009 11:00 GMT
#18
On December 21 2009 19:40 2longbe4 wrote:
Still you rarely see a 3/3/3 Protoss army, why is that?


I think maybe part of it has to do with how shields take full damage from all attacks (concussive/explosive), regardless of your unit type.

Edit: Ah, missed a post that already said it -.-
Ao_Jun
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Denmark396 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 11:18:50
December 21 2009 11:15 GMT
#19
On December 21 2009 19:53 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2009 19:42 Kiante wrote:
imo the argument can be made to upgrade shields over armor when playing vs a competant zerg to combat plague

While this is true, there are a few things to consider
a: shields take full damage against everything, causing the shields to disappear rapidly, thus less hits (and less damage reduction) will come into play. More hits required on armor = more damage reduction.
b: shields are very expensive.
C: Plauge doesn't come into effect until the lateish game.
Therefore, Armor is almost always preferable to shields until you can actually afford shields.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, this is all really obvious.


I think you forget to factor in the regeneration of shields, WHen your zealot hits 0 shield and starts taking hits to his health, every other hit the shield will have regenerated 1 point, making the hit do -3 damage on the shield and then doing damage to the zeal (A 0-0 zergling vs a 0-0-3 zealot would then do 1 damage to the hitpoints instead of 5.)

Dunno how often the shield recharges but this really makes it worth it.

EDITH Mentiones this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101820
you are one of the least benigtedly unintelligent organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting.
vOddy
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden402 Posts
December 21 2009 21:30 GMT
#20
You need shield upgrades in lategame PvZ, or ultralisks will own your archons (Though ultras will still be slightly better than archons, which is why you either add in dark archons or reavers lategame). Armour doesn't help archons at all, which is why you need shields. And shields do act as armour for shields, removing damage taken when the shielded unit is hit.
"You generate awesomeness. It just flows from you."
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