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Hello my fellow TL community! Today, I have something to share to my fellow TLers who play Starcraft on iccup working hard to become that C ranks or just playing for fun who are fellow D rank players for this awesome exciting idea I have came up over the past weeks. I present to you: the "D-RANK STARLEAGUE!!!" (disclaimer: the actual name is still undergoing on its way depending on approval and acceptance by the community)
Alright, I'll get straight to this point. The past weekend, I was able to share this idea with a few exclusive bright minded TLers secretly and openly of this idea that I just happen to come up with while studying for my finals (no joke!). What this is can be answered in 2 ways: a competitive individual league consists of ONLY D-/D/D+ players who wishes to fun a future with their skills that couldn't be achieved otherwise through competition that does require skills! (TSL..... grr...) Another way can be seen as a mixture of 2 chemical elements into a compound of element "CPL" and element "Liquid-tourney" that forms this new compound "DSL!"
That being said, I thank both parties of helping and allowing me of coming up with this idea even if it is a borrowed idea of 2 places I have looked in the past. Clazz's idea of a tourney of a TL community based OSL/MSL format league was a brilliant one indeed. Same can be said to this just started newly formed CPL with the whole idealistic format of a Proleague style for D players. These two together can form a deadly compound in my opinion which caused me to think and felt like it's my duty as a loyal honorable TL member to host and sponsor such an event that can be brought to great potential!
So how this will work?
First, I want users feedback whether or not we should create and have such a league consisting only D-/D/D+ rank players. I know it's sounds like we're limiting and being a little "rank racist" but hey, if you are a C rank player and you're mad that you're left out, please form your own league like I'm going to in a couple of weeks! :D
So thus, I will place an user poll for the next couple of days or whenever this thread dies out before I make the next followup poll:
Poll: A TL-community based Starleague consisting of D rank players?
(Vote): Good idea! =)
(Vote): Great idea! :D
(Vote): Bad Idea... =(
I already made few ideas and plans on how this exactly will work, but I am planning to expand on this idea even further by possibly providing a prize pool in the future as soon as we can get some nice sponsors which can be as little as "10 dollars iTunes gift card" ^_^
Format wise, I am planning OSL style first (with 4 initial seeds) then MSL then OSL and on and on as it increases popularity.... And taking CPL matches into consideration, I am hopefully looking at Thursday or Friday nights for this, as well as an invitation to all current CPL players (except you Team 5... jk... I don't hate you despite you exiled me from the team like a noob) and all non-CPL regular D ranking players! As well as streaming capability, refs possibility, etc etc!
So lastly I will say this, if you are interested of helping out or taking in part of this possible idea of mine of a TL fan base low ranking Starleague, make a comment today!!! (as in NOW!!! go go go!) That is all! Thank you!
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SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there...
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I think it's a cool idea, though the dates wouldn't work for me so I just lend you my tacit support ^_^
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
how will you know who is D rank and not smurfing?
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On December 20 2009 15:45 CaucasianAsian wrote:
how will you know who is D rank and not smurfing?
It's a community fun based Starleague? So whoever is pretending to be D rank is a moron trying to ruin all the fun and will face consequences....
On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there...
Well, this is different, this isn't SC2GG but TL here! Learn the difference please ^_^
On December 20 2009 15:45 Funnytoss wrote:
I think it's a cool idea, though the dates wouldn't work for me so I just lend you my tacit support ^_^
Thanks!
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I think this is a good idea. less time commitment for those who wanted to do the CPL, but couldn't because of the time constraint (like me), while at the same time allowing for those who want to play competitively with the TL community to do so.
I'd definitely like to participate if this gets off the ground.
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This sounds really cool, but it might not see a ton of interest as viewers don't find the games all that interesting and the players would completely change if there were ever a second or third tournament. I mean, I'm sure every single CPL player intends to finish the season above D+.
Regardless, I do think its very interesting and would like to see an attempt at it.
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idea's weak.
there's no reason to have a tournament at a level as low as D. no one wants to watch bad players play each other. the CPL works because its an interesting take on the bad players learning and applying what they've been taught in game.
a cut and dry D tourney wont work
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On December 20 2009 15:47 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 CaucasianAsian wrote:
how will you know who is D rank and not smurfing? It's a community fun based Starleague? So whoever is pretending to be D rank is a moron trying to ruin all the fun and will face consequences.... Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there... Well, this is different, this isn't SC2GG but TL here! Learn the difference please ^_^ Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 Funnytoss wrote:
I think it's a cool idea, though the dates wouldn't work for me so I just lend you my tacit support ^_^ Thanks!
Well I guess so, but in general it'd be a better place for casual and lower-rank stuff while TL.net is more of a professional community. But well yeah not really supporting this, I could just enter with a smurf account and you'd have no way of knowing... etc etc etc. Also, what's the point in the first place? Be a bad player and you can play, huh? The games would be boring with no entertainment value, as well.
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On December 20 2009 15:52 mOnion wrote:
idea's weak.
there's no reason to have a tournament at a level as low as D. no one wants to watch bad players play each other. the CPL works because its an interesting take on the bad players learning and applying what they've been taught in game.
a cut and dry D tourney wont work
Now now, the whole concept and idea is where you learn and get coaching on CPL and you may improve as you go along, THIS IS WHERE IT'S AT! This league is where you pull off everything you learn from CPL and prove your worth in a individual 1v1 league! It's to TEST YOUR WORTH, AMONG THE SAME BACKGROUNDS AND RANKS OF D PLAYERS, WILL YOU BE THE ONE WHO RISE UP AS KING OF THE Ds?
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This sounds like a great idea, but how do you deal with smurfs?
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On December 20 2009 15:52 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:47 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 15:45 CaucasianAsian wrote:
how will you know who is D rank and not smurfing? It's a community fun based Starleague? So whoever is pretending to be D rank is a moron trying to ruin all the fun and will face consequences.... On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there... Well, this is different, this isn't SC2GG but TL here! Learn the difference please ^_^ On December 20 2009 15:45 Funnytoss wrote:
I think it's a cool idea, though the dates wouldn't work for me so I just lend you my tacit support ^_^ Thanks! Well I guess so, but in general it'd be a better place for casual and lower-rank stuff while TL.net is more of a professional community. But well yeah not really supporting this, I could just enter with a smurf account and you'd have no way of knowing... etc etc etc. Also, what's the point in the first place? Be a bad player and you can play, huh? The games would be boring with no entertainment value, as well.
On December 20 2009 15:57 ForTheSwarm wrote:
This sounds like a great idea, but how do you deal with smurfs?
The solution is simple: You cheat and we catch you, suffer the consequences! And we're not only talking about banning for all and any future leagues after this, but you are cheating a TL community tourney. Remember clazz? He cheated in his own TL community and he got banned all his worth from the TL mods. I will accept and have the same policy as that, you cheat, I will put all efforts to make sure you are ban from TL forever.
Another example is the abusers of the TSL... and we all know what happened to them...
*edit* But I do like to see others also giving some feedback and solutions besides myself in regards to these question. This is a community based league and all opinions are welcomed here.
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On December 20 2009 15:47 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 CaucasianAsian wrote:
how will you know who is D rank and not smurfing? It's a community fun based Starleague? So whoever is pretending to be D rank is a moron trying to ruin all the fun and will face consequences....
Er... what consequences? Realistically speaking the honor system will only go so far, and you should at least outline some policy regarding smurfing beforehand. Otherwise you'll be in the middle of the season and step in saying "hey I think so and so is playing too well let's DQ him." At the very least state clearly if it's up to referee discretion, so if that situation does occur, you cut down on the "wow unfair DQ" whining. Don't assume "well that'd be a stupid thing to do" would actually stop people if they were just out to crash the party.
As a sidenote, how about those who have never laddered on ICCUP past D+, but have skills exceeding everyone else? Or someone who improves drastically between sign-up/registration and actual play? There are a lot of entirely realistic scenarios (or excuses) that would make an "overqualified" player qualified, and unless there is a sufficient solution on the administrative end, the project has very little chance of being (completely) successful.
On December 20 2009 15:47 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there... Well, this is different, this isn't SC2GG but TL here! Learn the difference please ^_^
What an inane response. He clearly knows the difference, as he posted on TL about a similar thing on SC2GG. It seems reasonable to assume you'd be interested in previous executions of the same or a similar concept, as it could be helpful to see how they did things. I mean sure, you can ignore everything and assume you know everything there is to know, but otherwise, why waste an entirely relevant resource?
edit: quote formatting
edit2: btw, a suggestion for the rank-verification, you could consider having competitors submit an iccup account with X number of games and a D+ or lower rank, achieved in a past season (to prevent people from creating fakes after hearing about this).I mean, there's still plenty of ways around it, but it's an idea. I'm pretty sure there's no sure-fire way of weeding out everyone.
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would someone whos participating in cpl but is still D/D+ level participate in this, if they can prove they are the level they say they are?
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Well you're right... I'm just one single person who's trying to come up with this idea hoping to share with everyone and expand on finding solutions to problems and making it work. Can one person possibly have answers to everything?
My personal answer besides the honor code and respect and all that is simply either a. qualify only those who have xxx # of games play on iccup already to make sure or b. have refs or judges to find out and judge them in qualifier rounds.... But I do want other people input to solve this which is the whole reason why I even bother to made up a thread rather than going straight to sign up thread which is later on...
And as for SC2GG, I wasn't trying to bash him or anything. However, I do know how Clazz's Liquid-tourney went and I found that to be successful before it got shut down, and I'm just reviving it based on that idea as well as my own little vision of it.... I don't need to go onto SC2GG format to see how things went when I already got an answer for that...
On December 20 2009 16:13 TheAntZ wrote:
would someone whos participating in cpl but is still D/D+ level participate in this, if they can prove they are the level they say they are?
Yes and yes they should... and that's easy to show since they have a WHOLEEEEEE league ahead of them to shown along with coaches and admins of that league to confirm...
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Maybe have an individual tournament where only people from CPL qualify? (or people who are on the CPL waitlist but verified as non-smurfs) That way you have less background checking.
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I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
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On December 20 2009 16:16 jalstar wrote:
Maybe have an individual tournament where only people from CPL qualify? (or people who are on the CPL waitlist but verified as non-smurfs) That way you have less background checking.
That's quite possible as well... though I don't want to leave all the D ranking players who weren't interested in CPL or had the knowledge of it to not being able to take part of this league b/c they just didn't know... I want to try to make this fair as much as possible.... But good insight and suggestion nonetheless!
On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
I'm a D rank Zerg player and I'll be taking part of this league myself... so if those protoss players think they're going to win, they have a whole surprise coming for them ^_^
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On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
Clubday msl again, gogo.
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On December 20 2009 16:18 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level Clubday msl again, gogo.
Lol, such a great MSL....
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:O this sounds like it'll be really fun. Kind of like liquid kickball, except hopefully it won't die.
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it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating
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On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating
Yea, now that I think of it, I might remove the whole idea of prize pool in the end.... since people might cheat because of it... but thanks for suggestion!
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On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
Wtf man, hydra breaks? D protoss will die to this every time. I know because I'm a D protoss who offraces to ZvP. Hydra breaks are omfg soooooo easy.
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On December 20 2009 16:21 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level Wtf man, hydra breaks? D protoss will die to this every time. I know because I'm a D protoss who offraces to ZvP. Hydra breaks are omfg soooooo easy.
Thank you for standing up against omgprotosssoez bullcrap.
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On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating
agree
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On December 20 2009 16:23 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:21 Fontong wrote:On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level Wtf man, hydra breaks? D protoss will die to this every time. I know because I'm a D protoss who offraces to ZvP. Hydra breaks are omfg soooooo easy. Thank you for standing up against omgprotosssoez bullcrap.
Actually, if you're denying it at D-level then you're the one spouting bullcrap. But I don't mean to derail the thread, I think the idea is pretty good but there shouldn't be a prize pool as mentioned before, otherwise it's too much incentive for someone to set up a smurf.
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in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank.
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On December 20 2009 16:20 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating Yea, now that I think of it, I might remove the whole idea of prize pool in the end.... since people might cheat because of it... but thanks for suggestion!
imo let there be a tiny prize pool, just as a motivator. I doubt a 10$ itunes gift card would isntigate cheating D:
But on the flip side, it'll be a trophy for the one who wins!
On December 20 2009 16:27 no_re wrote:
in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank.
dont worry about it i'll win
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On December 20 2009 16:27 no_re wrote:
in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank.
Well... yes and no... it all depends, you never know, a D- rank player can win this and all and move up to be C- by the end. BUT! Who can deny the fact that this person has won the league, learned and improved his skills while being in the league, and become a legitimate C ranking player thanks to his experience to this league? This league can be used as a tool to help and improve one's self to rise up to be a better SC player and perhaps, who knows, he can be the one who will surprise us in the end with an A iccup rank! ^_^
Besides, he'll have that "title" we'll give to all our winners of each league and be acknowledge as the winner of that one league on every single Starleague event we host! :D
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sounds like a nice idea to me (with a few mechanics that need to be tweaked out), but i'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is. if you think it'll work, will a bunch of people telling you it's a bad idea affect your decision to see this through? get a core group of people willing to work on this league, hammer out the details, and present your final product. if it's a good idea (and i think it is a fun idea), people will come and play in the league.
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On December 20 2009 16:35 hazelynut wrote:
sounds like a nice idea to me (with a few mechanics that need to be tweaked out), but i'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is. if you think it'll work, will a bunch of people telling you it's a bad idea affect your decision to see this through? get a core group of people willing to work on this league, hammer out the details, and present your final product. if it's a good idea (and i think it is a fun idea), people will come and play in the league.
Well, I am only bringing out the concept of it out now before ppl start going confused and all when I bring up the sign up thread. It's all a formality here and I am at the same time, using this thread as a base to get some core group of people willing to help out the league. I am also want to see some user feedback from our fellow TLers of how to have this league in the most relaxed exciting method. So this thread does serve its purpose not by the poll which is an extra since I plan to make one anyway, but by the suggestions, ideas, and further opinions given.
On a plus side, I was able to find my first possible sponsor to this league if I ever decide and plan to use it as part of motivation to gather players to join.... but that is up to also user's decisions here to have such a reward or not...
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I'm not sure if it will be fun watching D players take out each other
but for PLAYERS it sounds awesome.
Hopefully I can play (D Zerg)
If i can't, I'm still willing to help
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On December 20 2009 16:29 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:20 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating Yea, now that I think of it, I might remove the whole idea of prize pool in the end.... since people might cheat because of it... but thanks for suggestion! imo let there be a tiny prize pool, just as a motivator. I doubt a 10$ itunes gift card would isntigate cheating D: But on the flip side, it'll be a trophy for the one who wins! Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:27 no_re wrote:
in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank. dont worry about it i'll win....
.... the second place trophy
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On December 20 2009 16:41 yes9111 wrote:
I'm not sure if it will be fun watching D players take out each other
but for PLAYERS it sounds awesome.
Hopefully I can play (D Zerg)
If i can't, I'm still willing to help
Of course you're able to play! You can also help too if you want! I'll be doing multiple roles for this if it happens, being the host, organizer, streamer, player and etc! The whole league will be designed just for us D ranking players hoping to improve and find matchups toward other D ranking players to play and experience with fellow skill level! So yea, definitely!
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On December 20 2009 16:42 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:29 TheAntZ wrote:On December 20 2009 16:20 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating Yea, now that I think of it, I might remove the whole idea of prize pool in the end.... since people might cheat because of it... but thanks for suggestion! imo let there be a tiny prize pool, just as a motivator. I doubt a 10$ itunes gift card would isntigate cheating D: But on the flip side, it'll be a trophy for the one who wins! On December 20 2009 16:27 no_re wrote:
in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank. dont worry about it i'll win....
.... the second place trophy
IZ ON DAWG
btw quickstriker if you need help organizing this, maybe i can lend a hand. If this started DURING the winter holiday, that would be so, so tight, because after that everyone is busy with school
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It's a cute idea and all but has a lot of flaws.
#1 It probably won't get too much attention. Yes D players will be interested in it but anybody higher than D+ will have no motivation at all to watch crappy games (speaking for the majority). Even D players won't wanna watch each others' crappy games. I predict that it would start off with like 30 people watching one random stream to start and by the last match of the tourney hardly any will be watching.
#2 Like CaucasianAsian mentioned there will be no real way to determine ranks. If there are actual prizes involved I'm sure many above D+ players will lie about their rank so they can just steal the prizes.
#3 Sc2gg did something like this as well before.
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On December 20 2009 16:45 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 16:42 O-ops wrote:On December 20 2009 16:29 TheAntZ wrote:On December 20 2009 16:20 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 16:19 genericname92 wrote:
it sounds fun, but I'd rather see no prize pool, cause then you get people playing just for the prize and cheating Yea, now that I think of it, I might remove the whole idea of prize pool in the end.... since people might cheat because of it... but thanks for suggestion! imo let there be a tiny prize pool, just as a motivator. I doubt a 10$ itunes gift card would isntigate cheating D: But on the flip side, it'll be a trophy for the one who wins! On December 20 2009 16:27 no_re wrote:
in principal a nice idea but wont really work, sure most the players will be D rank but whoever wins the tourney surely won't be. Hell even if a legit D ranker does win, he will be viewed as if he had faked his real rank. dont worry about it i'll win....
.... the second place trophy IZ ON DAWG btw quickstriker if you need help organizing this, maybe i can lend a hand. If this started DURING the winter holiday, that would be so, so tight, because after that everyone is busy with school
Aw thanks, I do need all the help I can get right now since it's only 2 of us willing to help at the moment. I am actually planning to start this sometime around early January if possible... or maybe even as early as late December but that would be really pushing it... so sometime in January is definite....
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On December 20 2009 16:41 yes9111 wrote:
I'm not sure if it will be fun watching D players take out each other
but for PLAYERS it sounds awesome.
Hopefully I can play (D Zerg)
If i can't, I'm still willing to help
If the players are taking this seriously enough i'll doubt that most of them would remain still at D-rank as the league goes on.
We may even see potential TSL qualifier materials (more like future c- lolol) if we get a big enough viewer turnout during the league. After all, who wouldn't want to give their best in front of the fans?
If you want to see gg's, get more people to come watch.
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On December 20 2009 16:46 resonance wrote:
It's a cute idea and all but has a lot of flaws.
#1 It probably won't get too much attention. Yes D players will be interested in it but anybody higher than D+ will have no motivation at all to watch crappy games (speaking for the majority). Even D players won't wanna watch each others' crappy games. I predict that it would start off with like 30 people watching one random stream to start and by the last match of the tourney hardly any will be watching.
#2 Like CaucasianAsian mentioned there will be no real way to determine ranks. If there are actual prizes involved I'm sure many above D+ players will lie about their rank so they can just steal the prizes.
#3 Sc2gg did something like this as well before.
1: Look O-ops last post, he summed it up nicely! ^_^
2: There are posts on previous pages that answers that question as well so please look! :D
3: Look #2!
Thanks for your feedback though I am looking more of a suggestion and a supportive comment rather than destructive criticism.
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On December 20 2009 16:46 resonance wrote:
It's a cute idea and all but has a lot of flaws.
#1 It probably won't get too much attention. Yes D players will be interested in it but anybody higher than D+ will have no motivation at all to watch crappy games (speaking for the majority). Even D players won't wanna watch each others' crappy games. I predict that it would start off with like 30 people watching one random stream to start and by the last match of the tourney hardly any will be watching.
#2 Like CaucasianAsian mentioned there will be no real way to determine ranks. If there are actual prizes involved I'm sure many above D+ players will lie about their rank so they can just steal the prizes.
#3 Sc2gg did something like this as well before.
#2 and #3 were addressed earlier already, and i had just semi-addressed the #1 like 5 seconds ago. Plus, this is still an idea; we will get these things sorted out as best we can.
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You have my support, I would definitely join something like this.
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On December 20 2009 16:59 Alphonsse wrote:
You have my support, I would definitely join something like this.
Well thank you :D
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So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you are bad! Let's reward you for being bad!!!" Makes a lot of sense.
EDIT-addon:What I believe is that you're annoyed by being bad at starcraft and unable to compete in actual tournaments so you make a tournament for just bad players and ban all the good players from it so that even a player who can't play the game can win. The entire idea is completely against the competitiveness of the game and is counter-productive. A D player can't practice for the tournament because when after his practice he hits C- he's not eligible anymore. It's just stupid.
EDIT: made it less offensive just in case
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On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense.
Pretty much agree with all of that. Forgot to mention the pressure aspect as well in my first post.
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On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Sighs... I really don't like answering repeating questions and it's getting really late so I'll make this one my last one before I head to bed and get away from these destructive criticism...
Basically, it's simple, I'm aiming at D ranking players b/c there are a whole load of D ranking players more than B rankers in TL. I am doing for the community, the TL community, and for the sake of all the D iccup rank players out there in TL. I didn't mention some random D rank iccup players but TL D rank iccup players.
Secondly, why the hell not can't I make it into a "starleague"? Why can't D rank players have some prestige and glory like the rest of them? I'm a D rank player myself. I want this league to be fun, exciting and an experience for all D ranking players who are having trouble rising up to a higher rank. Isn't that a justified cause?
Look, if you really care about the quality and all that skills, then why don't you make a C rank or a B rank tourney league yourself? Maybe once the D rank players in this league grow out of their rank, they can join yours. How about it, will you be willing to commit hours and hours to prove what you say to happen if you care that much? I expected such comments like yours and I prepared my responses in advance because I knew someone would make this comment... now please read carefully to this post before you comment again.
*edit* On December 20 2009 17:07 resonance wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense. Pretty much agree with all of that. Forgot to mention the pressure aspect as well in my first post.
You too, read my this post I carefully outlined before you make an another post. If you really want to criticize comments, please try to find some where answers are not commonly found.... I'm off to bed now...
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On December 20 2009 17:09 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments? Sighs... I really don't like answering repeating questions and it's getting really late so I'll make this one my last one before I head to bed and get away from these destructive criticism... Basically, it's simple, I'm aiming at D ranking players b/c there are a whole load of D ranking players more than B rankers in TL. I am doing for the community, the TL community, and for the sake of all the D iccup rank players out there in TL. I didn't mention some random D rank iccup players but TL D rank iccup players. Secondly, why the hell not can't I make it into a "starleague"? Why can't D rank players have some prestige and glory like the rest of them? I'm a D rank player myself. I want this league to be fun, exciting and an experience for all D ranking players who are having trouble rising up to a higher rank. Isn't that a justified cause? Look, if you really care about the quality and all that skills, then why don't you make a C rank or a B rank tourney league yourself? Maybe once the D rank players in this league grow out of their rank, they can join yours. How about it, will you be willing to commit hours and hours to prove what you say to happen if you care that much? I expected such comments like yours and I prepared my responses in advance because I knew someone would make this comment... now please read carefully to this post before you comment again. *edit* Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:07 resonance wrote:On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense. Pretty much agree with all of that. Forgot to mention the pressure aspect as well in my first post. You too, read my this post I carefully outlined before you make an another post. If you really want to criticize comments, please try to find some where answers are not commonly found.... I'm off to bed now...
I already read it before I wrote that last comment -.-
I'm just giving input, you asked whether or not it was a good idea and I think it's a bad one.
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On December 20 2009 17:16 resonance wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:09 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments? Sighs... I really don't like answering repeating questions and it's getting really late so I'll make this one my last one before I head to bed and get away from these destructive criticism... Basically, it's simple, I'm aiming at D ranking players b/c there are a whole load of D ranking players more than B rankers in TL. I am doing for the community, the TL community, and for the sake of all the D iccup rank players out there in TL. I didn't mention some random D rank iccup players but TL D rank iccup players. Secondly, why the hell not can't I make it into a "starleague"? Why can't D rank players have some prestige and glory like the rest of them? I'm a D rank player myself. I want this league to be fun, exciting and an experience for all D ranking players who are having trouble rising up to a higher rank. Isn't that a justified cause? Look, if you really care about the quality and all that skills, then why don't you make a C rank or a B rank tourney league yourself? Maybe once the D rank players in this league grow out of their rank, they can join yours. How about it, will you be willing to commit hours and hours to prove what you say to happen if you care that much? I expected such comments like yours and I prepared my responses in advance because I knew someone would make this comment... now please read carefully to this post before you comment again. *edit* On December 20 2009 17:07 resonance wrote:On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense. Pretty much agree with all of that. Forgot to mention the pressure aspect as well in my first post. You too, read my this post I carefully outlined before you make an another post. If you really want to criticize comments, please try to find some where answers are not commonly found.... I'm off to bed now... I already read it before I wrote that last comment -.- I'm just giving input, you asked whether or not it was a good idea and I think it's a bad one.
I'm pretty sure you didn't read this post before that last comment since I posted it after your comments, like 2 minutes after.... notice the times please...
Giving input is fine where constructive criticism is always welcomed but destructive is another story... and then there's people trying to look smart..
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I think its a magnificent idea, i will gladly participate if i have the rights to participate.. many D players will be keen to extend their skill level and most importantly its keeping the scene alive even from the very roots of starcraft which is critical for future survival even though its on the brink of evolution/extinction
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Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit.
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On December 20 2009 17:19 Shikyo wrote:
Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit.
Answer: Make your own C ranking league then.
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On December 20 2009 17:21 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:19 Shikyo wrote:
Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit. Answer: Make your own C ranking league then.
Answer: I'd rather play more and hit B.
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On December 20 2009 17:21 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:21 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 17:19 Shikyo wrote:
Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit. Answer: Make your own C ranking league then. Answer: I'd rather play more and hit B.
Answer: Then make a B ranking league. I don't even know why I'm feeding the troll here but I really need to get to bed so good night.
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Protoss will be off the chain in this tourney.
Just much more D-level accessible.
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On December 20 2009 17:22 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:21 Shikyo wrote:On December 20 2009 17:21 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 17:19 Shikyo wrote:
Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit. Answer: Make your own C ranking league then. Answer: I'd rather play more and hit B. Answer: Then make a B ranking league. I don't even know why I'm feeding the troll here but I really need to get to bed so good night.
No, really. Leagues like this are pointless because you can't practice for them or you get kicked out. You need to be bad or you can't win. You need to be bad enough to play but still good enough to not be as bad as others.
It's just a stupid concept. Feel free to disagree but it is my opinion. Also, my main point with that comment was that if you're having trouble advancing to the next level, the best course of action isn't to waste time in a tournament like this. It is to practice to get better. If you are not suggesting improvement, but are instead suggesting having fun despite being a bad player and not doing anything about it, I suggest you look at stuff like BGH or Fastest.
EDIT: And I'm not trolling. If you say you are bad and I say that you should get good instead of trying to make it fun being bad and you think it's trolling, well we have different views about this game.
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On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense.
EDIT-addon:What I believe is that you're annoyed by being bad at starcraft and unable to compete in actual tournaments so you make a tournament for just bad players and ban all the good players from it so that even a player who can't play the game can win. The entire idea is completely against the competitiveness of the game and is counter-productive. A D player can't practice for the tournament because when after his practice he hits C- he's not eligible anymore. It's just stupid.
Oh my god you raging so hard LOL
Seriously, holy SHIT are you one selfish fag.
EDIT: Ok, I can understand that you believe what you believe in but seriously? You really ought to take a step back and realize what you're actually saying.
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If it happens I'd play for sure 
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On December 20 2009 17:36 BanZu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:02 Shikyo wrote:
So did you think about the C- -> B-~ players who might want to play in something like this but can't, even though the game quality would be a lot higher.
Also, how would a D player not remain a D player? I'm quite sure that just a day on iccup would improve them more than an entire tournament like this.
Will play their best in front of fans, huh? If anything, tournament games, especially by D level players, are going to be terrible because of all the pressure and such. The game quality is going to be lower than their standard level.
It just makes no sense to have a tournament for D players, especially an actual "starleague". Don't we already have iccup D-rank tournaments?
Also, having prizes would be just ludicrous. "Hey, you suck ass! Let's reward you for sucking ass!!!" Makes a lot of sense.
EDIT-addon:What I believe is that you're annoyed by being bad at starcraft and unable to compete in actual tournaments so you make a tournament for just bad players and ban all the good players from it so that even a player who can't play the game can win. The entire idea is completely against the competitiveness of the game and is counter-productive. A D player can't practice for the tournament because when after his practice he hits C- he's not eligible anymore. It's just stupid. Oh my god you raging so hard LOL Seriously, holy SHIT are you one selfish fag.
Thank you for contributing to the conversation, I appreciate your opinion.
EDIT: I don't understand what you're saying, explain? Also, how am I raging? It's my opinion, and I believe OP asked for it. At least I don't go around calling people fags. I believe it is against the forums rules.
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On December 20 2009 17:35 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 17:22 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 17:21 Shikyo wrote:On December 20 2009 17:21 QuickStriker wrote:On December 20 2009 17:19 Shikyo wrote:
Read my edit, it answers most of the stuff.
Ok what does it matter if they are TL D rank players? A bad player is a bad player, I don't really care.
You can make it into a starleague of course, your most likely reasons for doing that are in my above post's edit.
Because SC2GG has similiar stuff and I don't invent the wheel multiple times just for the sake of doing it. Also, I'd rather commit hours and hours on playing the game so that I wouldn't be D rank anymore. Owch?
Dunno what else I can answer. Why should bad players be rewarded? It's entirely against competitive logic, as I said in my above edit. Answer: Make your own C ranking league then. Answer: I'd rather play more and hit B. Answer: Then make a B ranking league. I don't even know why I'm feeding the troll here but I really need to get to bed so good night. No, really. Leagues like this are pointless because you can't practice for them or you get kicked out. You need to be bad or you can't win. You need to be bad enough to play but still good enough to not be as bad as others. It's just a stupid concept. Feel free to disagree but it is my opinion. Also, my main point with that comment was that if you're having trouble advancing to the next level, the best course of action isn't to waste time in a tournament like this. It is to practice to get better. If you are not suggesting improvement, but are instead suggesting having fun despite being a bad player and not doing anything about it, I suggest you look at stuff like BGH or Fastest. EDIT: And I'm not trolling. If you say you are bad and I say that you should get good instead of trying to make it fun being bad and you think it's trolling, well we have different views about this game.
For many players, including myself, improvement isn't as easy as "go play more and hit next rank." There is a very wide range of skill in the D-/D/D+ bracket, and breaking out of it takes a long time for a lot of people. A tournament such as this will be good motivation to practice, and hey, if I get kicked out for hitting C- while practicing for the tourney, good, it will have done its job.
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For what Shikyo said, personally I heart SC but I'm a casual player. I don't have the patience to bust my chops practicing over and over, but I enjoy the game nonetheless. For me a tourny like this is purely about fun, as being the best of the worst is still hardly something to boast about.
I'm assuming this tourney is for bad players to have some fun together in a setting that makes it feel more exciting than the actual truth of a few terribads wailing on each other.
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i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T
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On December 20 2009 18:51 BloodDrunK wrote:
i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T
lol what was the apm limit for that tourney?
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CPL is not TL based.
On December 20 2009 18:56 BG1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 18:51 BloodDrunK wrote:
i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T lol what was the apm limit for that tourney?
120 apm max.you can't exceed that at any point of the match.if you do then you're disqualified.
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On December 20 2009 18:43 ItsPaul wrote:
For what Shikyo said, personally I heart SC but I'm a casual player. I don't have the patience to bust my chops practicing over and over, but I enjoy the game nonetheless. For me a tourny like this is purely about fun, as being the best of the worst is still hardly something to boast about.
I'm assuming this tourney is for bad players to have some fun together in a setting that makes it feel more exciting than the actual truth of a few terribads wailing on each other.
If you play casually, why do you play in tournaments instead of playing fastest and bgh? What if there is a casual C- player who wanted to play -_- Well have your tournament, all opinions anyway.
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On December 20 2009 19:05 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 18:43 ItsPaul wrote:
For what Shikyo said, personally I heart SC but I'm a casual player. I don't have the patience to bust my chops practicing over and over, but I enjoy the game nonetheless. For me a tourny like this is purely about fun, as being the best of the worst is still hardly something to boast about.
I'm assuming this tourney is for bad players to have some fun together in a setting that makes it feel more exciting than the actual truth of a few terribads wailing on each other. If you play casually, why do you play in tournaments instead of playing fastest and bgh? What if there is a casual C- player who wanted to play -_- Well have your tournament, all opinions anyway.
Personally I don't actually know what fastest even is (lol) and I don't like BGH that much. Tourney style regular BW is heaps of fun
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On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
If a player is protoss and he's at D/D+ level, he's just the worst so I wouldn't worry about it too much :}.
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This sounds like a great idea, although I think smurfing will be a huge problem without some effective way to monitor it. I believe that this could be a really fun learning experience for low-level players (like myself). It would be totally awesome (although unlikely) if someone could comment on the replays and coach the players after the tournament.
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sounds great for the participants, but bad for spectators. it's not really gonna be interesting to watch except to see how badly some people screw up.
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On December 20 2009 19:03 BloodDrunK wrote:CPL is not TL based. Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 18:56 BG1 wrote:On December 20 2009 18:51 BloodDrunK wrote:
i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T lol what was the apm limit for that tourney? 120 apm max.you can't exceed that at any point of the match.if you do then you're disqualified.
What? Man ive got 180 apm and am mid D+ meaning i cant compeat in a tour for D-/D/D+?
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On December 20 2009 19:05 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 18:43 ItsPaul wrote:
For what Shikyo said, personally I heart SC but I'm a casual player. I don't have the patience to bust my chops practicing over and over, but I enjoy the game nonetheless. For me a tourny like this is purely about fun, as being the best of the worst is still hardly something to boast about.
I'm assuming this tourney is for bad players to have some fun together in a setting that makes it feel more exciting than the actual truth of a few terribads wailing on each other. If you play casually, why do you play in tournaments instead of playing fastest and bgh? What if there is a casual C- player who wanted to play -_- Well have your tournament, all opinions anyway.
Seriously? Casual players should only play fastest / bgh?
Why are there amateur leagues for real-life sports? Why do people play basketball for fun? You don't have to be an all-star to enjoy a competition.
By extension, TSL is basically the same thing, since it doesn't allow koreans to play... from their point of view, they can see it as a competition for "bad players"
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On December 20 2009 19:03 BloodDrunK wrote:CPL is not TL based. Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 18:56 BG1 wrote:On December 20 2009 18:51 BloodDrunK wrote:
i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T lol what was the apm limit for that tourney? 120 apm max.you can't exceed that at any point of the match.if you do then you're disqualified.
that bad. I got an avegare of 80 amp but during a 5min. game , I can have a pick at 150 once or twice.
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Awful idea. How can you have a "competitive" tournament with a skill cap? It's like your goal is to become good but not so good that your legitimacy as a D+ player is compromised. It's going to be won by a smurf, without a doubt.
Even if there were some way of determining that a player was "legitimately" within the rank boundaries, the difference in skill between D- and D+ is pretty huge.
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On December 20 2009 20:11 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 19:03 BloodDrunK wrote:CPL is not TL based. On December 20 2009 18:56 BG1 wrote:On December 20 2009 18:51 BloodDrunK wrote:
i think it's not a bad idea.i would certainly enter.
it could be the replacement for the TL low apm tourney which i never got a chance to enter.
T_T lol what was the apm limit for that tourney? 120 apm max.you can't exceed that at any point of the match.if you do then you're disqualified. What? Man ive got 180 apm and am mid D+ meaning i cant compeat in a tour for D-/D/D+?
They're talking about a different tourney with an APM cap. This one would just be limited by D+ tops.
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the concept of this tourney is to show who's the best amongst the worst.
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Am i legal if i BARELY hit C- last season T_T
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On December 20 2009 16:17 writer22816 wrote:
I think the problem with this is that Protoss players are just going to win everything especially at D-level
This may be a shock to you, but a D+ Protoss wins about as many games a a D+ Terran. That's why they're both the same rank. Crazy, I know.
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On December 20 2009 20:42 ReketSomething wrote:
Am i legal if i BARELY hit C- last season T_T
lol exactly the same situation here ^^. BARELY hit the C- at the end of a season, where all the D-'s mass games and become D+ ^^
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This is silly. You mix up D as a level and D as an achievement. Which is completely different.
D rank in itself doesn't mean anything. A rank does. Not everybody can achieve A rank.
I honestly don't have any idea what rank I am. I have around 200 apm sometimes, and I guess I can play as high as C rank, and sometimes as low as D rank. Sometimes also I stop playing cuz I don't have time. My level is incredibly inconcistant. So what? Will I be smurfing if I take part of that?
If I do really good, how will you prove that I am smurfing or not playing really good today?
You say being D rank as "being bad", not at never achieving C-. Good. The purpose of a league is to play as good as possible. So the one who will win will probably be, at best around C+.
You can't compare with people abusing TSL. You can prove that someone has been abusing. Now everytime someone will win a game you will have people to say "No, he is too good, he is not D, ban him ban him!"
That's really stupid stupid stupid idea. Sorry.
PS: Plus apm cap is moronic as at D level races are completely imba. 70 apm toss with limited knknowledge of the game can win a 170 apm ran who knows his bo and game flow but doesn't have the multitask to babysit his army.
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i'd totally take part
i think it's giving the entrants the benefit of the doubt
and out of goodness of heart, which i like a lot
what's so bad about D players watching other D players play other D players ?
even if they are or were once a higher ranked player
i guess it'd be up to you senses to see just how amazing of a player you are if you need to stomp around D players trying to have fun in a 'tournament' dedicated to them
right ? lol
just relax
what's wrong with holding a small tournament and having fun with it?
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On December 20 2009 21:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:
This is silly. You mix up D as a level and D as an achievement. Which is completely different.
D rank in itself doesn't mean anything. A rank does. Not everybody can achieve A rank.
I honestly don't have any idea what rank I am. I have around 200 apm sometimes, and I guess I can play as high as C rank, and sometimes as low as D rank. Sometimes also I stop playing cuz I don't have time. My level is incredibly inconcistant. So what? Will I be smurfing if I take part of that?
If I do really good, how will you prove that I am smurfing or not playing really good today?
You say being D rank as "being bad", not at never achieving C-. Good. The purpose of a league is to play as good as possible. So the one who will win will probably be, at best around C+.
You can't compare with people abusing TSL. You can prove that someone has been abusing. Now everytime someone will win a game you will have people to say "No, he is too good, he is not D, ban him ban him!"
That's really stupid stupid stupid idea. Sorry.
PS: Plus apm cap is moronic as at D level races are completely imba. 70 apm toss with limited knknowledge of the game can win a 170 apm ran who knows his bo and game flow but doesn't have the multitask to babysit his army.
Kinda have to agree here, you can't measure 'skill' at d/d+ ranks entirely, and you won't be able to keep out smurfs or higher ranks. The pool of people that the tourney is intended for would be very hard to filter out between enormous range of people just with a D icon next to their name.
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Needs more actual Starcraft skill imo
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there has to be like apm max like how you can get DQed by having 150+
just like in drag where people running 10 sec. qualifiers and somehow end up with sub 9s.
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On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there...
U talk about the weekly turny? There is actually a lot of higher ranked ppl in the sc2gg turnys nowdays. All of the sc2gg turnys and cups have a high number of C and above ranked players.
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I'd give it a shot. Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but what are the plans for game times or is it still too early to ask?
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seems interesting, i've never hit past d+ but i'm confident i have a shot at winning this (assuming no smurfs join)
edit: an apm limit might be interesting...
yes i know apm doesn't equal skill, but if i have to face against a 300 apm "d" level, i know something's fucked up.
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Does the winner get the C- rank?
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i think you underestimate the number of people here who are willing to smurf. and even with just one person smurfing the #1 prize is forfeit to someone without integrity.
i want to suggest an involved screening process.
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On December 21 2009 00:35 dasanivan wrote:
i think you underestimate the number of people here who are willing to smurf. and even with just one person smurfing the #1 prize is forfeit to someone without integrity.
i want to suggest an involved screening process.
I agree. Simply removing any prize will drastically reduce the number of money smurfs and only leave the asshole smurfs. I'm only going to enter this for fun and to read people bashing our noobish playstyles. :D
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ive been into the C ranks a long time ago would have to start laddering again and see if i can get higher then D+ with zerg which im gonna learn to play if i where to start playing again. If i manage to get a steady negative record at D+ id definitely play. I dont know if someone suggested something similar to this yet, but one could implement the rule of having a iccup account with at least a hundred games played this season to ensure that everyone is the rank they claim they are. I cant imagine anyone actually making the effort of creating a fake account and losing on purpose only to participate. That would just be really sad..
edit: yes implementing any kind of material price would be stupid in my opinion, id only do this for fun
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I'd love to compete. I don't care even if nobody but the players themselves wind up watching the games, but it sounds like fun.
The 'prize', if you will, could also be something that really, very few good players would want. Like a banner that states "I won the D-rank Tournament." Not something that people want to win for material gain.
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The winner could won something like some practice with a top foreigner....
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are u talking eapm max ? because i can hit 200+ apm but just 100 of eapm :S
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sounds interesting but right now im D+ with like 25 games.... I would want to play but i think if i kept playing i probably would end up C- =[ Does that disqualify me?
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I'm definitly interested in taking part. As long as their are groups etc, not just a big playoff with 64 players.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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I would definitely play! Sounds like a good time, if you need any help with anything let me know, I'm willing to do my part
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Great idea! I wish I could throw my name in to the hat as a player, but sadly my work schedule is not steady enough for that. I would love to stream games for it though if you need/want people for that!
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Idea for a name: Crappy/Bad Amateur league = C-Bal.
Edit: Not saying the league is crappy, but the players.
Edit: Not saying the players are crappy people. Just bad at starcraft.
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it sounds okay, but id rather wait for the details to criticize the idea. i think it could give some D players a sense of competitiveness and actually put more effort into playing and trying to improve. its different to just randomly play people on ICCUP than to compete on a tournament (even if its ridiculously low skilled).
im D and id play. personally CPL is 10x better (not trying to discourage the OP) but hey its something for D players to look forward to.
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this sounds great!
i approve wholeheartedly.
though i have no chance of winning.
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Censored.
just throwing that out there.
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Thanks for the support guys!
On December 21 2009 02:53 Illusion. wrote:
btw DSL = DICK SUCKING LIPS
just throwing that out there.
Keep that trolling up and I'll create a blacklist just for you! ^_^
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On December 20 2009 18:56 Illusion. wrote:
we already have CPL DUMB
On December 21 2009 02:53 Illusion. wrote:
btw DSL = DICK SUCKING LIPS
just throwing that out there.
Illusion, plz stop being a complete fag k thx
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I'm def in but...the problem is always figuring out who is legitly a d ranked player?
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I like the suggestion that entrants should have ~D accounts with X number of games, but if that'll be implemented it should be decided quickly so we have fair warning. It probably doesn't matter for some, but I know I don't regularly play iccup often, and apparently some other Ds are the same.
EDIT: Of course smurfs can go out of their way to borrow someone else's account, but honestly any impediment is better than none.
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What makes CPL so attractive is that each team has coaches who care about their team learning and improving. If you could integrate a partial form of that then it would make a lot more sense. Without that, it's just another D tournament?
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On December 21 2009 04:11 O-ops wrote:Illusion, plz stop being a complete fag k thx
he's just doing this cause he got kicked out of CPL..
If you want my true opinion its that we dont need "DSL" untill CPL is over with.
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On December 21 2009 05:59 Illusion. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 04:11 O-ops wrote:On December 20 2009 18:56 Illusion. wrote:
we already have CPL DUMB On December 21 2009 02:53 Illusion. wrote:
just throwing that out there. Illusion, plz stop being a complete fag k thx he's just doing this cause he got kicked out of CPL.. If you want my true opinion its that we dont need "DSL" untill CPL is over with.
Uhh.. no? You just came into this thread stating these two statements and I haven't said a single thing that was unproductive or out of line that concerned CPL. I fully respect CPL decision and how it is going and I was planning to use that and link this tourney as sort of an add-on along with those other D players who haven't got into CPL. So whatever you are saying, you're just making everything worse.
Besides, I'm pretty sure you can warned from your abusive use of words, please try to not flame or troll me again or you might be banned from TL as well. Thanks.
On December 21 2009 05:13 old times sake wrote:
What makes CPL so attractive is that each team has coaches who care about their team learning and improving. If you could integrate a partial form of that then it would make a lot more sense. Without that, it's just another D tournament?
Yep, I know. I do hope to maybe integrate or the 2 together but because I want this and am doing it of a TL community based event while CPL sort of is, it's more independent imo. I am trying to have the schedules for these events and matches different from CPL matches so that a CPL player can do both of these events, as well as all those potential CPL players who got rejected when applying due to space or whatever reason. Plus other TL D players who weren't interested in CPL but is in this. Please understand that.
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On December 21 2009 06:25 Chaos- wrote:
Sup QuickStriker. umad?
Nope, and you can tell based on my response throughout this thread, the OP I created, and the idea I've came up regarding of sort of move onto the next stop of the CPL. ^_^
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Just make sure you don't designate Saturdays for the matches
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On December 21 2009 06:32 Chaos- wrote:
Just make sure you don't designate Saturdays for the matches
I know, I'm not stupid to do that. I already mentioned like at least 10 times on this thread of not planning to do it on Saturdays, including on the OP so.....
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On December 21 2009 06:35 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 06:32 Chaos- wrote:
Just make sure you don't designate Saturdays for the matches
I know, I'm not stupid to do that. I already mentioned like at least 10 times on this thread of not planning to do it on Saturdays, including on the OP so.....
Well it didn't stop you from signing up for CPL... I just want to make sure you don't break more hearts. kk gl yo
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On December 20 2009 23:14 Neivler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:45 Shikyo wrote:
SC2GG has these kinds of things like every day... kind of. Used to be more of a D-rank thing but lately there's been many higher rank players on there... U talk about the weekly turny? There is actually a lot of higher ranked ppl in the sc2gg turnys nowdays. All of the sc2gg turnys and cups have a high number of C and above ranked players.
They're not similar at all. Those weekly tourneys happen once per week and only require that you show up on a saturday and play. it's just a casual no-pressure event where folks come to have some fun and play some starcraft. players rank from D- to A (Avi occasionally comes over to pwn everyone lol).
Anyways, I don't really see much overlap between this concept and sc2gg's tourneys, if that was a potential problem.
Good luck, sounds like fun!
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DSL is not a good name. It already has another well-known meaning.
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Some sort of screening would have to be involved.
Like being able to show that you are the owner of an ICCUP account from a past season with around a D rank that has a reasonable number of games (like 50) and a below 50% win rate to show that you were stable at that rank...
The game length part is so that smurfs don't get on an alternatingly cheese and then lose games in order to achieve the game amount.
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err what happens when they all get better then D?
do we find new players for the finals?
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On December 21 2009 07:50 Traveler wrote:
Some sort of screening would have to be involved.
Like being able to show that you are the owner of an ICCUP account from a past season with around a D rank that has a reasonable number of games (like 50) and a below 50% win rate to show that you were stable at that rank...
The game length part is so that smurfs don't get on an alternatingly cheese and then lose games in order to achieve the game amount.
Totally agree on this idea! (because I fit in the that range kekeke ;D)
http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/LoC)ProoM.html
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On December 21 2009 07:52 Mykill wrote:
err what happens when they all get better then D?
do we find new players for the finals?
As long as they are legit d-rank players from the start, we let them play all the way (unless we find out they smurf halfway). We are not discouraging players from improving in this tournament, because that's just flat out stupid. Of course, we will be monitoring drastic changes in game quality (like D to B in like, 2 weeks), but, if it's reasonable (and we are working on the definition of "reasonable"), then it's all good and fun and in accordance with the spirit of competition. Of course, they won't be able to compete in the next tourney.
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On December 21 2009 07:50 Traveler wrote:
Some sort of screening would have to be involved.
Like being able to show that you are the owner of an ICCUP account from a past season with around a D rank that has a reasonable number of games (like 50) and a below 50% win rate to show that you were stable at that rank...
The game length part is so that smurfs don't get on an alternatingly cheese and then lose games in order to achieve the game amount.
Screening will be involved. We aren't going to allow smurfers/cheaters in the tourney.
*edit* Right now, one of the most likely method of screening we're going to use is the iccup account method. If you future players want a head start, go ahead and do it. If possible, we encourage you to spend some consistent time with that account until sign up time, just to keep it up-to-date.
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Striker was thinking D-/D/D+ rank (dunno about cpu), but i prolly should verify him on that. You stats look legit, but are you sure that's your current skill level :p
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I can't believe people are still discussing that.
So, tell me, what means being a D player? You need to make a fucking good defintion, as you will have to be able to say exactly what is a D+ and what is a C-
Just think, half a second, and realize that the border doesn't exist and that the winner of your league will just be the best player you allowed to play on no criteria, out of nothing. That is stupid. Period.
And it becomes funny when you say that smurfer will "face the consequences". Everytime someone will win, he will be accused to be "too good for being there".
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There shouldn't be a time limit on the amount of games to rule out cheese. Cause' I know of many d protosses who are just genuinely cheesy, thats their play style. Or when I play zerg, I'm low econ. Low times on my games. Only when I play terran [which atm I am] does my average game exceed the ten minute mark.
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On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played  I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week.
Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that...
And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^
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Now to answer a few questions asked:
On December 21 2009 07:28 vnlegend wrote:
DSL is not a good name. It already has another well-known meaning.
Yea... which is why I'm also asking for suggestion for the name but if all fails, I think "DSL" can work too.... or a "sponsor" D-Starleague or something... xD
On December 21 2009 07:52 Mykill wrote:
err what happens when they all get better then D?
do we find new players for the finals?
Nah, if you start out as a D-/D/D+ and you end up as a C- before it all ends, you still play the league until it's done, just that you won't be able to play the next one! But your name and title will sure be imprinted in the future to come! ^_^
So basically you play start to finish regardless if you transformed in mid way, as long as you started with the requirements....
On December 21 2009 08:35 yhnmk wrote:
There shouldn't be a time limit on the amount of games to rule out cheese. Cause' I know of many d protosses who are just genuinely cheesy, thats their play style. Or when I play zerg, I'm low econ. Low times on my games. Only when I play terran [which atm I am] does my average game exceed the ten minute mark.
Don't worry, I cheese a lot too or do all-in builds many times. I'm a low econ zerg too so that's acceptable obviously. :D
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^
I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 (40 with seeds) people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members.
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On December 21 2009 09:06 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^ I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 (40 with seeds) people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members. If theres different days, theres more reason to practice, more at stake. Likewise if we have coverage for the event. Beyond that, many of the D tournies on iccup are ruined by some smurf who just milks them for easy points on his way up to a higher rank. A drawn out tourny with some degree of coverage, grander in scope...made sure there is limited to no abuse, how is that not better than an iccup tourny? Even if its not, at the very least the idea has hypothetical merit and should be given a try.
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On December 21 2009 09:06 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^ I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members.
Well, like I said, this is different form just iCCup tourneys. Allow me to explain and why it can go as big as one may think:
1. Qualifiers. Remember TSL? Remember Offline Qualifiers on MSL/OSL to get to the main zone of the league? That's what I'm shooting for. Which means, 64, 128 or any amount of people can play with the right planning and organizing. Doesn't have to be only 36 people, I don't want it to be that little from start.
2. This is a strictly TL-only community based tourney which makes it that much more different from iCCup tourneys. I'll be making threads from interviews, hypes, banners, etc. Do iCCup tourneys have such big overwhelming hype for a league? No, but this TL-community based tourney will.
3. Sponsors and prizes. I already gotten a few offers of possible sponsors who are willing to chip in or put a very small prize for the winner. Now, there has been some talks about whether to have prizes or not but think about it for a second: if the prize is like "10 dollars iTunes giftcard" and this tourney goes on for an entire month, would that abuser/cheater/smurfer be desperate enough to spend a whole month just to get such a small prize?
4. Streaming, refs, etc. I don't think I need to explain further than this.
That being said, I will repeat for the 100th time again and again, I am doing this for the good-will nature as a TL member who wishes to start up something and bring good to the community. You did yours with CPL and I am doing mine in my own way. If you have any other further remarks regarding my ideas, go ahead and I will go ahead and answer any and all questions you have prepared as I have prepared myself what I have planning to start to finish.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On December 21 2009 09:14 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 09:06 l10f wrote:On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^ I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members. Well, like I said, this is different form just iCCup tourneys. Allow me to explain and why it can go as big as one may think: 1. Qualifiers. Remember TSL? Remember Offline Qualifiers on MSL/OSL to get to the main zone of the league? That's what I'm shooting for. Which means, 64, 128 or any amount of people can play with the right planning and organizing. Doesn't have to be only 36 people, I don't want it to be that little from start. 2. This is a strictly TL-only community based tourney which makes it that much more different from iCCup tourneys. I'll be making threads from interviews, hypes, banners, etc. Do iCCup tourneys have such big overwhelming hype for a league? No, but this TL-community based tourney will. 3. Sponsors and prizes. I already gotten a few offers of possible sponsors who are willing to chip in or put a very small prize for the winner. Now, there has been some talks about whether to have prizes or not but think about it for a second: if the prize is like "10 dollars iTunes giftcard" and this tourney goes on for an entire month, would that abuser/cheater/smurfer be desperate enough to spend a whole month just to get such a small prize? 4. Streaming, refs, etc. I don't think I need to explain further than this. That being said, I will repeat for the 100th time again and again, I am doing this for the good-will nature as a TL member who wishes to start up something and bring good to the community. You did yours with CPL and I am doing mine in my own way. If you have any other further remarks regarding my ideas, go ahead and I will go ahead and answer any and all questions you have prepared as I have prepared myself what I have planning to start to finish.
1. I never said I didn't want this to happen, I was just pointing some things out.
2. In fact, I was going to encourage all the CPL players to participate in this because I think it would be a good way to keep them motivated.
3. YES, there will be smurfs in this league.
I don't know how many people will watch this league (even Liquid Tourney wasn't streamed iirc), but good luck with it.
My attitude is generally positive towards this league, except I am positive that there will be people who smurf, and no system will perfectly filter out these people without taking genuine D players along with them.
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On December 21 2009 09:19 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 09:14 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 09:06 l10f wrote:On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^ I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members. Well, like I said, this is different form just iCCup tourneys. Allow me to explain and why it can go as big as one may think: 1. Qualifiers. Remember TSL? Remember Offline Qualifiers on MSL/OSL to get to the main zone of the league? That's what I'm shooting for. Which means, 64, 128 or any amount of people can play with the right planning and organizing. Doesn't have to be only 36 people, I don't want it to be that little from start. 2. This is a strictly TL-only community based tourney which makes it that much more different from iCCup tourneys. I'll be making threads from interviews, hypes, banners, etc. Do iCCup tourneys have such big overwhelming hype for a league? No, but this TL-community based tourney will. 3. Sponsors and prizes. I already gotten a few offers of possible sponsors who are willing to chip in or put a very small prize for the winner. Now, there has been some talks about whether to have prizes or not but think about it for a second: if the prize is like "10 dollars iTunes giftcard" and this tourney goes on for an entire month, would that abuser/cheater/smurfer be desperate enough to spend a whole month just to get such a small prize? 4. Streaming, refs, etc. I don't think I need to explain further than this. That being said, I will repeat for the 100th time again and again, I am doing this for the good-will nature as a TL member who wishes to start up something and bring good to the community. You did yours with CPL and I am doing mine in my own way. If you have any other further remarks regarding my ideas, go ahead and I will go ahead and answer any and all questions you have prepared as I have prepared myself what I have planning to start to finish. 1. I never said I didn't want this to happen, I was just pointing some things out. 2. In fact, I was going to encourage all the CPL players to participate in this because I think it would be a good way to keep them motivated. 3. YES, there will be smurfs in this league. I don't know how many people will watch this league (even Liquid Tourney wasn't streamed iirc), but good luck with it. My attitude is generally positive towards this league, except I am positive that there will be people who smurf.
Well, thanks for looking at this idea into a positive light. I am planning to schedule this at a different time of CPL matches so it won't conflict each other out.
Now regarding smurfers, yes, I am preparing to tackle that issue soon as I am looking at various methods and solutions to resolve that issue. As some pointed out in this thread, pre-screenings of one's record for the league, refs to check during the qualifiers, and etc. Of course, we can't be 100% certain to crack down such people but I am certain that whether or not we would have such people in TL and break that honor and respect factor, that there will be such consequences once caught. However, I don't want that to happen in the end and start with a league where no one abuses this future league to come. So thus, suggestions, feedback, and opinions are shared in this thread as the purpose is to address potential problems and also to resolve them.
So rather than actually giving me such obvious detail that 20 other people said during the thread, maybe some suggestions to solve that smurf issue could be nice. But thanks for your support as I am saying this and viewing it as a good nature constructive comments. ^_^
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wouldn't this be the same thing as CPL league but without the Coaches?
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On December 21 2009 09:32 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 09:19 l10f wrote:On December 21 2009 09:14 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 09:06 l10f wrote:On December 21 2009 08:56 QuickStriker wrote:On December 21 2009 08:35 l10f wrote:You would own everyone in this league if you played I'm not against this idea, but if you're gonna do this, why not just host a iCCup tourney with D-/D/D+ ranks? There are like 10 of those every week. Because it's simple, this isn't some average random ordinary iCCup tourney that has D-/D/D+ ranks. It's a TL-community based individual STAR-LEAGUE that consists of those ranks. Like I mentioned over and over, remember clazz's liquid-tourney?? An OSL or MSL type format of individual league that involves the TL SC players of low ranks who wish to play in a competitive backgrounds under the same rules of OSL/MSL! That's right, we would have group selections, round robins, qualifiers, bo3s and bo5s.... this isn't just another iCCup tourney you may think it would be... it's much bigger than that... And, yes, CPU ranks are obviously allowed! This league for basically anyone UNDER C- rank bars. ^_^ I've participated in the Liquid Tournaments, and it felt like just an iCCup tournament that took place in different days. It's really not as big as you think. You're just gonna have 36 people play a league OSL-style. You can set a BB tourney to have bo3's and bo5's and round robins. There are a few of those for D ranks too. The only difference here is that it's limited to TL members. Well, like I said, this is different form just iCCup tourneys. Allow me to explain and why it can go as big as one may think: 1. Qualifiers. Remember TSL? Remember Offline Qualifiers on MSL/OSL to get to the main zone of the league? That's what I'm shooting for. Which means, 64, 128 or any amount of people can play with the right planning and organizing. Doesn't have to be only 36 people, I don't want it to be that little from start. 2. This is a strictly TL-only community based tourney which makes it that much more different from iCCup tourneys. I'll be making threads from interviews, hypes, banners, etc. Do iCCup tourneys have such big overwhelming hype for a league? No, but this TL-community based tourney will. 3. Sponsors and prizes. I already gotten a few offers of possible sponsors who are willing to chip in or put a very small prize for the winner. Now, there has been some talks about whether to have prizes or not but think about it for a second: if the prize is like "10 dollars iTunes giftcard" and this tourney goes on for an entire month, would that abuser/cheater/smurfer be desperate enough to spend a whole month just to get such a small prize? 4. Streaming, refs, etc. I don't think I need to explain further than this. That being said, I will repeat for the 100th time again and again, I am doing this for the good-will nature as a TL member who wishes to start up something and bring good to the community. You did yours with CPL and I am doing mine in my own way. If you have any other further remarks regarding my ideas, go ahead and I will go ahead and answer any and all questions you have prepared as I have prepared myself what I have planning to start to finish. 1. I never said I didn't want this to happen, I was just pointing some things out. 2. In fact, I was going to encourage all the CPL players to participate in this because I think it would be a good way to keep them motivated. 3. YES, there will be smurfs in this league. I don't know how many people will watch this league (even Liquid Tourney wasn't streamed iirc), but good luck with it. My attitude is generally positive towards this league, except I am positive that there will be people who smurf. Well, thanks for looking at this idea into a positive light. I am planning to schedule this at a different time of CPL matches so it won't conflict each other out. Now regarding smurfers, yes, I am preparing to tackle that issue soon as I am looking at various methods and solutions to resolve that issue. As some pointed out in this thread, pre-screenings of one's record for the league, refs to check during the qualifiers, and etc. Of course, we can't be 100% certain to crack down such people but I am certain that whether or not we would have such people in TL and break that honor and respect factor, that there will be such consequences once caught. However, I don't want that to happen in the end and start with a league where no one abuses this future league to come. So thus, suggestions, feedback, and opinions are shared in this thread as the purpose is to address potential problems and also to resolve them. So rather than actually giving me such obvious detail that 20 other people said during the thread, maybe some suggestions to solve that smurf issue could be nice. But thanks for your support as I am saying this and viewing it as a good nature constructive comments. ^_^
I love your positive attitude
I can't think of any way you can take out the smurfers from the "better" D+ players, so no suggestions from me, but about the suggestion you gave about the refs and qualifiers and pre-screening, I don't think it will work well. It's easy to get a "bad" account to pass the pre-screening, then play at the level of D players.
Good luck regardless, I already encouraged everyone to sign up for this if it gets going.
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I'd definitely do this, but I don't think I'd be let in. At the very end of last season I managed to break C- with around a 37% winrate, which to me means I'm not actually C-, but solidly D+
I doubt that argument will hold here though, considering how anti-smurf and focused on just D-players you are. Anyway, I'd love to participate if possible, and wish you luck on getting this started.
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I do think it is a bad idea banning better players. From past experience, even if the tournament has mostly D players, if someone like Avi-Love wanted to play there and then ended up crushing everyone to victory, the D players really wouldn't be mad or sad about it at all. They actually generally really like the opportunity to play against a way better player and to get crushed. I don't understand why you would ban everyone else from the tournament, reducing the player count and overall skill level.
But yeah last comment about this I guess. I believe it is a terrible idea that makes no sense.
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On December 21 2009 11:02 Shikyo wrote:
I do think it is a bad idea banning better players. From past experience, even if the tournament has mostly D players, if someone like Avi-Love wanted to play there and then ended up crushing everyone to victory, the D players really wouldn't be mad or sad about it at all. They actually generally really like the opportunity to play against a way better player and to get crushed. I don't understand why you would ban everyone else from the tournament, reducing the player count and overall skill level.
But yeah last comment about this I guess. I believe it is a terrible idea that makes no sense. Err...cause if you allow more skilled players in, that obviously pushes the lower skilled players out and means we have no chance to compete. Like always. The tourny exists so we have a chance to compete with a realistic chance at winning the whole thing, opponents of roughly equal skill. I don't mind losing to a better player, when im practicing. Why in the shit would I invite rape in a tourny? Why would I even play, then?On December 21 2009 10:48 NSANE.hydra wrote:
I'd definitely do this, but I don't think I'd be let in. At the very end of last season I managed to break C- with around a 37% winrate, which to me means I'm not actually C-, but solidly D+
I doubt that argument will hold here though, considering how anti-smurf and focused on just D-players you are. Anyway, I'd love to participate if possible, and wish you luck on getting this started. He said d- to d+ are allowed in. So if he counts you as a d+ even a high end d+, you should get in.
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Braavos36375 Posts
The reason why this seems like a bad idea is because a tournament is supposed to reward a better player (the guy who wins), but you're also trying to exclude the better players.
A league with a handicap is fine, like a 6-foot and under league in basketball. Thats completely measurable. You can't change your height or pretend to be shorter to get whatever prizes, glory, or ego from bashing newbies.
However, having a league with an unmeasurable handicap is just asking for people to abuse the rules. Trust me, there will be PLENTY of people who enter and are above D+. Simply trusting people to enter and abide by the unmeasurable skill cap is going to be pointless. Whoever wins will obviously be playing at a non D level, very likely significantly higher than D.
You're basically going to hold a tournament that rewards the player that can best hide his true ability, or the player who is best capable of pretending he's D (or pretending hes just slightly better than his opponent in every game).
Its like having a race where only "slow" people enter, and you take their word for it that they are slow, but they have to run not slow to win. That just doesn't make much sense. A much better tournament would be one where you can only have 50 apm max (no rank cap). Thats actually a measurable handicap and a fun one too.
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On December 21 2009 11:32 Hot_Bid wrote:
A much better tournament would be one where you can only have 50 apm max (no rank cap). Thats actually a measurable handicap and a fun one too.
Someone get on this one, now!
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On December 21 2009 05:59 Illusion. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 04:11 O-ops wrote:On December 20 2009 18:56 Illusion. wrote:
we already have CPL DUMB On December 21 2009 02:53 Illusion. wrote:
just throwing that out there. Illusion, plz stop being a complete fag k thx he's just doing this cause he got kicked out of CPL.. If you want my true opinion its that we dont need "DSL" untill CPL is over with.
I'm sure you would feel exactly the same way if you didnt get into CPL.
Who cares whats quick's reason for doing this? Its another way for low level players, and read this people like shikyo, TO HAVE FUN WITHOUT MAKING STARCRAFT A FUCKING JOB WHERE YOU HAVE TO PRACTICE AND GET BETTER BLAH FUCKING BLAH.
And I think thats a great thing
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The whole idea of a D level Starleague has now become a reality through an actual signup thread located at...
Click Me!
So gogogo and prepare yourself of the new TL-community Starleague!!!!
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On December 21 2009 11:32 Hot_Bid wrote:
The reason why this seems like a bad idea is because a tournament is supposed to reward a better player (the guy who wins), but you're also trying to exclude the better players.
A league with a handicap is fine, like a 6-foot and under league in basketball. Thats completely measurable. You can't change your height or pretend to be shorter to get whatever prizes, glory, or ego from bashing newbies.
However, having a league with an unmeasurable handicap is just asking for people to abuse the rules. Trust me, there will be PLENTY of people who enter and are above D+. Simply trusting people to enter and abide by the unmeasurable skill cap is going to be pointless. Whoever wins will obviously be playing at a non D level, very likely significantly higher than D.
You're basically going to hold a tournament that rewards the player that can best hide his true ability, or the player who is best capable of pretending he's D (or pretending hes just slightly better than his opponent in every game).
Its like having a race where only "slow" people enter, and you take their word for it that they are slow, but they have to run not slow to win. That just doesn't make much sense. A much better tournament would be one where you can only have 50 apm max (no rank cap). Thats actually a measurable handicap and a fun one too.
Couldn't have said it any better..
This idea is stupid.
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As a serious competitive idea this is kind of silly but what's wrong with a bunch of chobos choboing?
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On December 20 2009 15:55 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 15:52 mOnion wrote:
idea's weak.
there's no reason to have a tournament at a level as low as D. no one wants to watch bad players play each other. the CPL works because its an interesting take on the bad players learning and applying what they've been taught in game.
a cut and dry D tourney wont work Now now, the whole concept and idea is where you learn and get coaching on CPL and you may improve as you go along, THIS IS WHERE IT'S AT! This league is where you pull off everything you learn from CPL and prove your worth in a individual 1v1 league! It's to TEST YOUR WORTH, AMONG THE SAME BACKGROUNDS AND RANKS OF D PLAYERS, WILL YOU BE THE ONE WHO RISE UP AS KING OF THE Ds?
EFU TEE DAHBLEYUU
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I think this is a bad idea. This is because there is no way to know for sure that your opponent is really D level. They can simply smurf and get away with it.
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EDIT ASLDASASFG
I need to learn to not have opinions
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Nice idea but you guys gonna have alot of work find the smurfs ^^
Gl
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TL mods, if you can, please close this thread as it have successfully served its purpose and now the thread has no meaning anymore realistically.... thanks...
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No enforcement mechanism.
EDIT: I agree with everything hotbid says pretty much.
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Don't know why people are still commenting on this thread when I already started up a signup thread of the league with few changes to enforce strict policies regarding who and who can't play, and how to determine.
But there are any further comments regarding this, please address it at the signup thread and consider this as a dead one... thanks..
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EPT
