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On August 28 2009 13:43 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2009 09:00 TheYango wrote:On August 28 2009 07:45 NicolBolas wrote:The advantage that this laughable FA system gives to the teams over the players is frankly unacceptable, and its good that SOMEONE is actually doing something against it. So, what are they doing against it? Getting Jaedong to retire isn't going to bring FA down, unless Bisu, Flash, Fantasy, Effort and others all quit in solidarity. All it will do is end Jaedong's career. While Jaedong retiring doesn't immediately solve the problem, it does raise awareness in the community that there IS a problem (you can see on TL, seeing as Jaedong's insultingly low salary wasn't even a topic of discussion until these things started to happen). Very well, then. Since OZ is the problem, I'll do this. I've stripped the OZ tag from my signature until Jaedong gets paid what he's worth. And if they force him out of StarCraft, then I'll switch to SKT1. OK, maybe not that far. I'll switch to CJ. It's a small thing, worth maybe a bumper-sticker in real-world terms. But it's something.
That'll show the bastards! They'll have to offer Jaedong a decent contract now.
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On August 28 2009 09:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2009 07:45 NicolBolas wrote:The advantage that this laughable FA system gives to the teams over the players is frankly unacceptable, and its good that SOMEONE is actually doing something against it. So, what are they doing against it? Getting Jaedong to retire isn't going to bring FA down, unless Bisu, Flash, Fantasy, Effort and others all quit in solidarity. All it will do is end Jaedong's career. While Jaedong retiring doesn't immediately solve the problem, it does raise awareness in the community that there IS a problem (you can see on TL, seeing as Jaedong's insultingly low salary wasn't even a topic of discussion until these things started to happen).
I wasn't really aware of it.. i was assuming he was on the same pay scale as bisu/flash ect.
i think most people did not know as well.
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On August 28 2009 23:23 noddyz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2009 07:02 Hot_Bid wrote:On August 28 2009 06:43 noddyz wrote:
Parents seem more a problem than kespa or free agency in general.
What kind of an age is 20 before you can decide your own contracts? Seems crazy. can you imagine if NBA players had to negotiate their own contracts without agents? and in a tiny room with just a few days time limit? and if they dont say yes, there's a governing body that rigs and colludes between teams to keep their salaries super low? and after that their original team can pay them slave labor rates? of course JD is going to say "yeah i just want to play." every kid would say that. jaedongs parents should be applauded for sticking up for their son. he deserves better and I'm happy his parents are protesting against KeSPA fuck JD and all other players over with this ridiculous FA system. Kid? JD is 19 not 5. He's already demonstrated that he doesn't 'just want to play', he wants to play for Oz and Oz alone. He was going to get 140 million won, base, for playing where he wanted: a wage far away from 'slave labour' and more in dream land for most 19 year olds. He was going to do what he loved for a good amount of money and his parents stopped him because they felt he deserved more. Maybe he did, especially in comparison to some other pro's, but that's not the point. The point is they should have been able to advice JD, like any good parent would, but not directly step in and stop an adult doing what they want to do with there life. I'll remind you again: he's 19. I don't like free agency. I think it's a disgrace to to slap so many rediculous, harmful, regulations on something and call it 'free'. But in the case of Jaedong, it should never even have been an issue. He should have just been able to sign with his old team, like he wanted.
I'd just like to say that the 19 year olds in different cultures, times, locations, and professions are all so different from one another it can be impossible to imagine or understand sometimes.
From my personal experience, alot of asian parents don't consider their kids as adults capable of making important decisions until mid twenties, on average.
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On August 28 2009 23:43 blue_arrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2009 23:23 noddyz wrote:On August 28 2009 07:02 Hot_Bid wrote:On August 28 2009 06:43 noddyz wrote:
Parents seem more a problem than kespa or free agency in general.
What kind of an age is 20 before you can decide your own contracts? Seems crazy. can you imagine if NBA players had to negotiate their own contracts without agents? and in a tiny room with just a few days time limit? and if they dont say yes, there's a governing body that rigs and colludes between teams to keep their salaries super low? and after that their original team can pay them slave labor rates? of course JD is going to say "yeah i just want to play." every kid would say that. jaedongs parents should be applauded for sticking up for their son. he deserves better and I'm happy his parents are protesting against KeSPA fuck JD and all other players over with this ridiculous FA system. Kid? JD is 19 not 5. He's already demonstrated that he doesn't 'just want to play', he wants to play for Oz and Oz alone. He was going to get 140 million won, base, for playing where he wanted: a wage far away from 'slave labour' and more in dream land for most 19 year olds. He was going to do what he loved for a good amount of money and his parents stopped him because they felt he deserved more. Maybe he did, especially in comparison to some other pro's, but that's not the point. The point is they should have been able to advice JD, like any good parent would, but not directly step in and stop an adult doing what they want to do with there life. I'll remind you again: he's 19. I don't like free agency. I think it's a disgrace to to slap so many rediculous, harmful, regulations on something and call it 'free'. But in the case of Jaedong, it should never even have been an issue. He should have just been able to sign with his old team, like he wanted. I'd just like to say that the 19 year olds in different cultures, times, locations, and professions are all so different from one another it can be impossible to imagine or understand sometimes. From my personal experience, alot of asian parents don't consider their kids as adults capable of making important decisions until mid twenties, on average.
Agree with you on that one and can confirm it. My parents wouldn't even trust me with adult decisions even when I was 25. They wanted to know what job options I have and what I was trying to take even though they didn't know the first thing about the field I was working in.
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Weird so many think a 19 year old can handle contract negotiations. Are you all business geniuses or something? Because throughout my college years, I don't remember seeing many, if any, 19 year old savvy enough to negotiate seriously with grown professional businessmen.
I believe my collegues and my own priorities at that age was going after girls, getting drunk, and cramming for the finals in the last month of the semester. If my 19 old self wanted to negotiate my own salary, I'd say HELL NO.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it is possible for jd to be misinformed about his situation.
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On August 29 2009 00:08 oneofthem wrote:
it is possible for jd to be misinformed about his situation.
Intentionally of course, but I don't think it's even necessary; he almost got fucked hardest of all.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 02:55 fanatacist wrote:
Intentionally of course, but I don't think it's even necessary; he almost got fucked hardest of all.
Arguably, he was already being fucked over hardest of all. At 70M KRW a year, it's pretty obvious that he's one of the most, if not the most underpaid currently active player.
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It would be more fucked if he did all that for no contract renewal, imo.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 02:59 fanatacist wrote:
It would be more fucked if he did all that for no contract renewal, imo.
True.
I think the thing that really shocks me about JD's situation is that he's been letting Hwaseung shove him around as far as salary goes for TWO YEARS. At 70M a year or less, he was underpaid by the time he won his first OSL, and for the most part, people have just let that fly?
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JD ought to retire. if he goes out now he can be remembered as the best progamer of all time. he is young. go to school, floss some white broads and get on with your life.
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On August 29 2009 03:03 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 02:59 fanatacist wrote:
It would be more fucked if he did all that for no contract renewal, imo. True. I think the thing that really shocks me about JD's situation is that he's been letting Hwaseung shove him around as far as salary goes for TWO YEARS. At 70M a year or less, he was underpaid by the time he won his first OSL, and for the most part, people have just let that fly?
and kespa with their fa rules, are allowing OZ to keep him under paid.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 03:08 StorrZerg wrote:
and kespa with their fa rules, are allowing OZ to keep him under paid.
His salary was a joke before FA ever became a relevant factor. It's just that FA caused a huge hubbub because Jaedong's parents (rightfully) tried to do something about it.
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It's not the first time an athlete/celebrity had to sign a bullshit contract to get by and then had that sacrifice forcibly inserted in all holes simultaneously. It's the way "the business" works, talentless people profiting off of the talented. Even though this is an outrage, there is not much we or anyone can do.
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Canada5565 Posts
I see a lot of similar posts. Please, set a precedent for TL.net and foreign fans by voting here and not ignoring what's happening to progamers when they need us the most and we are so well informed.
In the end it's not about the progamers themselves, it's about the eSports institution, player rights, and having principles.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 03:19 fanatacist wrote:
It's not the first time an athlete/celebrity had to sign a bullshit contract to get by and then had that sacrifice forcibly inserted in all holes simultaneously. It's the way "the business" works, talentless people profiting off of the talented. Even though this is an outrage, there is not much we or anyone can do.
Jaedong can retire. And while I'll reserve judgement until after we see something about the offer JD gets, I'm inclined to believe that's a better option at this point.
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so awful that Flash or Bisu earn more that 200K
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On August 29 2009 03:20 Xxio wrote:I see a lot of similar posts. Please, set a precedent for TL.net and foreign fans by voting here and not ignoring what's happening to progamers when they need us the most and we are so well informed. In the end it's not about the progamers themselves, it's about the eSports institution, player rights, and having principles.
If you think Kespa will know about that poll, or even flinch when they find out about it, you're dreaming. That's just the unfortunate fact
TheYango: I don't think it's his best option. Although going to college in America would be great, it costs money, it requires him to fly (probably back and forth multiple times for family), to master English, to go back to school after training SC for years... It's rough. Ideal situation, like you said, would be known after the new contract proposal, but either way I think it's better for him to make more money, maybe learn English on the side, then bail before military service.
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Canada5565 Posts
It's better to try and fail than to never have tried at all. Hopefully we could add our support to the other english fansites and then the many people protesting this in Korea. I would rather do that than be the person that thought of how awful it is yet did nothing, not even enough to voice their opinion, and by doing so tell KeSPA and other institutions that the fans are ok with this..
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EPT
