• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:01
CEST 08:01
KST 15:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off6[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax5Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris30Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1847 users

MsC vs. 1-gate FE in PvT

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-27 22:52:40
July 27 2013 22:51 GMT
#1
Playing around with different expands in this matchup, trying to figure out how to play this correctly. One cool revelation I've had is that a probe scout is pretty much completely unnecessary in this matchup. Although there are some nasty all-ins or cheesy proxy play that can hit us before 5:30, we're pretty much safe from all normal play before the MsC. With a direct MsC scout or a zealot/stalker/MsC poke around 5:30, we can get all of the scouting info we need.

Here are some rough BOs:

Modern MsC Expand:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
**3 chronoboosts on nexus**
13 gate
15 double gas
**2 in each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
22 zealot (cancel)
**23 rally nexus to natural
21 nexus
23 MsC
23 warpgate
25 stalker
25 pylon
27 sentry
27 robo
27 forge
(@5:00, add robo + forge)
@100% MsC -> scout (5:30)
32 sentry
@6:30 3rd/4th gas
If no cannons needed, start +1 armor
@7:00 gate x2
44 sentry


_


1-gate FE (PvT):
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
13 gate
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
21 zealot
23 pylon
25 MsC
27 stalker
29 nexus
Poke with MsC/stalker/zealot @5:30
31 sentry
31 robo
31 forge
(@5:30, add robo/forge)
33 sentry
33 pylon
If no cannons needed, +1 armor
@6:30, add natural gases
@7:00, add gate x2
48 sentry

_


Looking at both of these builds (and playing them as well), the MsC expand feels EXTRAORDINARILY economical in comparison, while the 1-gate FE variant definitely gives you more options to punish a terran who skips a bunker or just doesn't defend very well, but both still give you the scouting info you need at 5:30.

Both builds include a stalker to push away reapers. The 1-gate FE variant has a second stalker as well, allowing the protoss to poke with the initial stalker/zealot without worrying about economic damage.

Many times, if I don't scout a reaper, I like to throw down 3 extra gateways and do a warpgate attack @~7:00, making my 32/33 pylon a proxy. With the 1-gate FE, I will generally have 4 stalkers/2 sentries (one with GS)/2 zealots with the first warpin, which should break a bunker almost instantly. A lot of times, you can even force the terran to lift off the natural. I follow this up with natural gases and robo/forge, generally going into colossus (because they feel faster and safer against the counter aggression with stim), but you can also follow up with mass gateway units + double forge/twilight and recall if your opponent tries to drop.

Wanna play with some more openings and variations and see if I can get a better idea of this matchup.


*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
July 27 2013 23:11 GMT
#2
Yeah MsC expo is pretty awesome. You have good defenses and there's a lot of things you're automatically safe against. I'd still recommend at least a delayed probe scout though in case there's some serious shenannies, but I think generally now you almost always want to MsC Expo instead of 1G Expo. It's economical and relatively safe and you have a lot of options.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 108
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2985
ggaemo 260
Tasteless 196
PianO 182
Larva 150
Icarus 11
Dota 2
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv1310
Stewie2K563
semphis_44
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King132
Other Games
summit1g9162
tarik_tv7599
WinterStarcraft506
C9.Mang0341
singsing180
NeuroSwarm76
SortOf49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick675
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH275
• Sammyuel 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1216
• Lourlo946
• Stunt489
Other Games
• Scarra884
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
3h 59m
hero vs Alone
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
17h 59m
The PondCast
1d 3h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 4h
Clem vs Classic
herO vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
1d 17h
LiuLi Cup
2 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
2 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
3 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.