• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:32
CET 01:32
KST 09:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival12TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams7Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest3Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou22
StarCraft 2
General
The New Patch Killed Mech! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame Smart servos says it affects liberators as well Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival BSL Season 21 BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking!
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Roaring Currents ASL final
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Sabrina was soooo lame on S…
Peanutsc
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1595 users

MsC vs. 1-gate FE in PvT

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-27 22:52:40
July 27 2013 22:51 GMT
#1
Playing around with different expands in this matchup, trying to figure out how to play this correctly. One cool revelation I've had is that a probe scout is pretty much completely unnecessary in this matchup. Although there are some nasty all-ins or cheesy proxy play that can hit us before 5:30, we're pretty much safe from all normal play before the MsC. With a direct MsC scout or a zealot/stalker/MsC poke around 5:30, we can get all of the scouting info we need.

Here are some rough BOs:

Modern MsC Expand:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
**3 chronoboosts on nexus**
13 gate
15 double gas
**2 in each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
22 zealot (cancel)
**23 rally nexus to natural
21 nexus
23 MsC
23 warpgate
25 stalker
25 pylon
27 sentry
27 robo
27 forge
(@5:00, add robo + forge)
@100% MsC -> scout (5:30)
32 sentry
@6:30 3rd/4th gas
If no cannons needed, start +1 armor
@7:00 gate x2
44 sentry


_


1-gate FE (PvT):
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
13 gate
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
21 zealot
23 pylon
25 MsC
27 stalker
29 nexus
Poke with MsC/stalker/zealot @5:30
31 sentry
31 robo
31 forge
(@5:30, add robo/forge)
33 sentry
33 pylon
If no cannons needed, +1 armor
@6:30, add natural gases
@7:00, add gate x2
48 sentry

_


Looking at both of these builds (and playing them as well), the MsC expand feels EXTRAORDINARILY economical in comparison, while the 1-gate FE variant definitely gives you more options to punish a terran who skips a bunker or just doesn't defend very well, but both still give you the scouting info you need at 5:30.

Both builds include a stalker to push away reapers. The 1-gate FE variant has a second stalker as well, allowing the protoss to poke with the initial stalker/zealot without worrying about economic damage.

Many times, if I don't scout a reaper, I like to throw down 3 extra gateways and do a warpgate attack @~7:00, making my 32/33 pylon a proxy. With the 1-gate FE, I will generally have 4 stalkers/2 sentries (one with GS)/2 zealots with the first warpin, which should break a bunker almost instantly. A lot of times, you can even force the terran to lift off the natural. I follow this up with natural gases and robo/forge, generally going into colossus (because they feel faster and safer against the counter aggression with stim), but you can also follow up with mass gateway units + double forge/twilight and recall if your opponent tries to drop.

Wanna play with some more openings and variations and see if I can get a better idea of this matchup.


*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25553 Posts
July 27 2013 23:11 GMT
#2
Yeah MsC expo is pretty awesome. You have good defenses and there's a lot of things you're automatically safe against. I'd still recommend at least a delayed probe scout though in case there's some serious shenannies, but I think generally now you almost always want to MsC Expo instead of 1G Expo. It's economical and relatively safe and you have a lot of options.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
22:10
Best Games of SC
Rogue vs herO
MaxPax vs Clem
MaxPax vs Lambo
Clem vs herO
Reynor vs Classic
PiGStarcraft564
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft564
ProTech96
Nathanias 82
ForJumy 22
Vindicta 16
RuFF_SC2 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21200
Artosis 759
NaDa 32
Dota 2
PGG 982
monkeys_forever513
syndereN413
XaKoH 355
League of Legends
JimRising 216
Cuddl3bear5
Counter-Strike
fl0m1168
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0639
hungrybox407
AZ_Axe102
Other Games
summit1g7032
Grubby2956
shahzam804
Maynarde117
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick986
BasetradeTV36
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 64
• musti20045 59
• RyuSc2 59
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• OhrlRock 0
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22205
League of Legends
• Doublelift3851
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
28m
Replay Cast
9h 28m
Streamerzone vs Shopify Rebellion
Streamerzone vs Team Vitality
Shopify Rebellion vs Team Vitality
WardiTV Invitational
11h 28m
CrankTV Team League
12h 28m
BASILISK vs Shopify Rebellion
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
BSL 21
1d
Replay Cast
1d 9h
BASILISK vs TBD
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
OSC
1d 11h
CrankTV Team League
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
4 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
5 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.