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RE: EG.IdrA

Blogs > Chargelot
Post a Reply
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Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:12:57
May 06 2011 11:40 GMT
#1
I'd like to start a blog series about the professional players we've come to know and love (and/or hate), and discuss in detail my opinion about them as people, players, and professionals.

About the Blog:
+ Show Spoiler +

How successful will this blog be?
Only time will tell.

Why does my opinion matter? It doesn't. My opinion is being used as a medium to provide people with a space to objectively comment upon the professional Starcraft II gamers in a dignified and professional manner.

What I would like to see come from this blog series
: interesting and respectful discussion from TL.net members from around the world.

What I would not like to see in this blog series: disrespectful character sniping, or disdainful remarks. Feel free to post that stuff on the forums, or on a different website, or start your own blog. But here, we will comment about the players we discuss in a dignified way.


The Rules of Engagement
:
+ Show Spoiler +
  • Negative remarks are allowed, but they should be well worded (Non-English speakers are okay, don't fret if you don't speak English well) and constructive.
  • Hardcore analysis of the players as people shouldn't be done unless you've met this player in real life, and you have known him/her personally for some significant amount of time.
  • Your comments should show some amount of intelligent thought. "lol idra is mad" will get you banned from my blog.


Now, the topic for today:
EG.IdrA


Greg "IdrA" Fields, also called the Gracken, is a professional Zerg player (formerly a Terran player in Starcraft: Broodwar) who has previously qualified as a GSL "Code S" player. His outstanding knowledge of the game, quick reaction time, and amazing game sense drives him to well deserved victories in tournaments. I am sure this introduction was not necessary, because love him or hate him, we all know who IdrA is.

The Man

It would be nearly impossible to discuss this amazing player without diving into the controversy head-on; IdrA is known to be a little BM (bad mannered). Everyone is familiar with the famous "IdrA rage". Today I will openly declare my approval of his "BM". What you call bad manners, IdrA calls the open expression of truth and emotion. To single out IdrA because he refuses to restrain himself is highly prejudiced. We all get frustrated when we lose games, sometimes more frustrated than other times, and a lot of players just suck it up and say "gg".

There have been multiple occasions when IdrA channels his anger and his frustration into a really aggressive build, which secures him a win. But there have been times when his rage has cost him an important game (IdrA vs. HuK at MLG Dallas 2011, Hallucinated void rays). But ultimately IdrA's frustration is just expressed in ways that other players pretend they don't want to do. Reputation, for whatever reason, means a lot in E-Sports right now, and no one would dare stain their good name with a bad reputation.

Truth be told, we all occasionally want to give a good "Fuck you" to the enemy. Because IdrA is not so obsessed with his public image (i.e. vanity) he is willing to do this. In this sense, he is a hero for the underdog, the player who isn't IdrA, who isn't Chargelot, but rather is Greg Fields and Jesse Spillane (that's me). He doesn't represent himself as EG.IdrA, professional Starcraft II player, he represents himself as Greg Fields, human gamer. That is an attitude I'd like to see more from people. I want to know that KiWiKaKi (random name) actually has feelings. Perhaps professional gaming would not be such an impenetrable field if more gamers represented themselves the way IdrA does, as simply himself.

Zerg is Underpowered


IdrA, as he said in State of the Game: Episode 37, believes that Zerg have an innate design flaw which has begun to wreak havoc upon the Zerg vs. Terran/Protoss metagame. Since both Terran and Protoss wall-off against Zerg every game, Zerg cannot get any information related to the build of their opponent.

In a sense, IdrA is correct. A reasonably timed scout will hit a wall, and an early scout will see nothing noteworthy. Also, any decent player will have Stalkers/Sentries/Marines blocking an Overlord scout.

His argument continues when he says the only way to win without flipping a coin (i.e. guessing, estimating, having a 50% chance to win or lose, etc.) is to either scout the enemy build, or to have an all purpose defense. Since there is not such thing as an "all purpose" defense, and Zerg cannot truly scout any skillful player, it is then impossible for Zerg to be truly even with the other races.

The famous Sean "Day[9]" Plott attempted to reconcile IdrA's argument by saying he was looking at the situation through too-small of a lens, and that there is no true "imbalance", but being the shout caster that he is, he tried to shout cast his argument, and therefore it was not as articulate as it could have been.

I will attempt to reconcile IdrA's argument through the same lens Day[9] was, or at least my perception of his lens. This information shouldn't be treated as a heavy counter to IdrA's logic, as I am a Protoss player gone Terran (IdrA now hates me), and my information is based primarily on watching professional Zerg players.

My Idea:
+ Show Spoiler +
What Day[9] was saying is that perhaps scout and all purpose defense are not the only two choices. Following this logic I will provide a strategy based on my understanding of Zerg and reactive builds.

When facing a Terran player who has walled-off and is not showing his cards, there are actually very few ways he can go after a certain amount of time has passed. If he has not Banshee harassed, or Hellion harassed by about the 7:00 mark, it's fair to say he's going heavy 1base mech all in, or a shameful attempt at Battlecruiser rushing. He can't be going Bioball because that is an aggressive style of play. Anyone who turtles and goes Bioball will lose anyways, so that is a non-issue.

Banshee and Hellion harass before the 7 minute mark also gives away vital information. Better than a scout drone. They give away their builds. If a Terran makes Blue Flame Hellions (BFH) it is a safe bet that he will not be making cloaked Banshees, but rather will continue to tech with his factory. Tanks are the go-to unit from the factory when fighting Zerg, until the Zerg counters with Mutas in which case he will produce Thors.

Early Banshee harass points towards Bioball drops, and relatively late mech.

But one can easily counter all of this logic by saying "it's still a coin flip". This is where reaction comes in. Roaches cost 75/25 and take 27 seconds to build. Zerglings cost 50/0, and take 25 seconds to build. These are pretty small times, and low prices, all things considered.

Against a 1-base Terran the Zerg player should choose to tech up to roaches quickly into expand, or expand quickly into roach tech(obviously). The key point here is that the Zerg player should limit drone production to a pre-determined number, and begin to save up larva and money. Yes, coinflip defenses will need to be placed. An early Spinecrawler or two will help a lot, and lets face it you'd get them anyway. Having Overlords near the enemy base, along their attack path, is necessary. When the Overlord scouts the push out the Zerg player will gain the information he needs to choose the correct units to produce. The correct combination of Lings and Roaches can then be produced from the stored larva and money.

This type of strategy may work best when mixed with Spanishiwa's No Gas FE. It is certainly unnatural to save money or larva early on. But to make a reaction build, it is necessary. 25-27 seconds after spotting the enemy forces, the Zerg player will have his molded counter prepared. The longer it takes the Terran to push out, the higher the tech and upgrades the Zerg should get. Since both air and ground attack upgrades benefit Broodlords, and the Zerg player will probably start an upgrade before they have units following this reaction logic, they should be the end goal of this strategy in a long game, unless the Terran's build hard counters Broodlords, in which case Melee units (Ultralisks) can still be used in their stead.

Since Hydras are expensive and take forever to build, the primary Anti-Air defense should be queens and thus more than one per base is recommended. If no air harass is incoming, then the Zerg has a fantastic setup for early creep spread.

This type of build is not a counter to heavy early aggression, and should never be considered for a normal (not turtling) bioball terran.


Conclusion


EG.IdrA, though outspoken, is a remarkably good player with a great amount of game knowledge, proven by his struggle for 1st place in the NA Grand Masters league, and his recent success (spoiler alert) in the IPL. The problems he has brought up with the Zerg race are more of a failure caused by the metagame than it is a design issue, but that does not mean the problems aren't real. This attention grabbing super-beast has gotten upwards of 18k viewers while streaming only his laddering games, and successfully dragged in 20k viewers to episode 37 of State of the Game. This rising star has only one place to go: straight upward.

Comments? Questions? Feedback? Challenges? Do you agree or disagree? Let the whole world know. Provide a response, but please read the section entitled "The Rules of Engagement".

Edited to fix factual error regarding Boxer.

**
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SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
May 06 2011 11:45 GMT
#2
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
May 06 2011 11:52 GMT
#3
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


And that's not an entirely unfair belief. It is a part of the culture of the game, and that does make IdrA deviant. Which is why he gains bad rep, not so much because not GG'ing or letting himself say whatever he wants is necessarily a bad thing, just because it's different from everyone else.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
May 06 2011 11:58 GMT
#4
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
May 06 2011 12:01 GMT
#5
On May 06 2011 20:58 Tschis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.


That's quite interesting, actually. I didn't know that.
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Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:09:08
May 06 2011 12:03 GMT
#6
There is a clear difference between showing your emotions and being a immature person, sure he might be showing his emotions, Idra is one of the faces of the foreign SC2 community, do you really want that to be an person who acts the way he does?I mean I like Idra, I like his play, I like his insight, he is a goodplayer and I even agree with him on the Zerg imbalances and that Zerg is not nearly the race was that it was in BW but still. As one of the main faces of SC2 I find it rather annoying

Ow yeah, if you think Boxer is a robot then you are soooooooo far off, you have not watched a single game of Brood War, his ceremonies, his humanity, his tears (especially that one time that his pupil,I loveOov beat him). So please, do not put Boxer as emotionless as frankly that is an insult to him, the community and E-sports.
[image loading]
If this guy is a robot then I don't know what you call a robot.

One of the most beloved and hated progamers of all time is Firebathero, this guy used to do cermonies all the time etc, and was BM to the max, but he did it if he won, he did it when he beat his opponent, he humiliated his opponent when his opponent lost. Idra however does it whenever he loses aswell, which is a bit sad. That being said I still do think that he is an amazing player and that his attitude might just be a flaw, but that is oke, but you should understand then why he gets so much hate.
WriterXiao8~~
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:11:15
May 06 2011 12:09 GMT
#7
I want to say that I did pull out Boxer and KiWiKaKi at random. They were the first two names that popped into my head. I should have done more research into Boxer before making such a blatant statement, and that is now something I've learned for the future should this blog continue. This is a learning process for me, being the first blog of a potential series.

So I do apologize, Kipsate.

I believe, I can't confirm this obviously, that IdrA's post-lose BM is based on the idea that he lost BECAUSE of the flaws in the Zerg race he has pointed out. So he believes he is the better player, but only lost because of the flaws.
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57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:14:25
May 06 2011 12:12 GMT
#8
IdrA is a great player, there is no denying that. I just hope he doesn't take his current manners with him after he grows out of playing SC2. There are just some situations you can't BM yourself out of.

I think he is hurting himself with the whole ZvP-imba attitude though. He just needs to find a strategy that works against the current protoss metagame (3gate sentry expand mostly), and start using that.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
Mactator
Profile Joined March 2011
109 Posts
May 06 2011 12:13 GMT
#9
Keep it down to earth guys. There's a lot of hype around Idra at the moment because 1) he is performing very well 2) his viewer count when streaming is extremely large. I think you should calm down and enjoy his play. You don't have to agree with or judge everything the man does.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
May 06 2011 12:16 GMT
#10
On May 06 2011 21:13 Mactator wrote:
Keep it down to earth guys. There's a lot of hype around Idra at the moment because 1) he is performing very well 2) his viewer count when streaming is extremely large. I think you should calm down and enjoy his play. You don't have to agree with or judge everything the man does.


Very true. Not to completely dismiss them, but an insult is only what the insulted make of it. Deviance is also only what the compliant make of it. If we all relaxed about him in general, we could definitely learn a lot about the Zerg race and metagame, and appreciate some really great play.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
May 06 2011 12:18 GMT
#11
On May 06 2011 20:58 Tschis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.


There was no rule saying you had to type GG in BW.
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:22:52
May 06 2011 12:20 GMT
#12
--- Nuked ---
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
May 06 2011 12:24 GMT
#13
liquipedia....
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
rkffhk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:27:01
May 06 2011 12:25 GMT
#14
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder.

Like with the jazz musicians: you have to know the rules in order to break them properly


---

About the idea with reading your opponent by way of the timings... that's not really something that is exclusive to Zerg. All of the other races have ways of getting into the opposition's base (Observers, Comsats, for example). If Zerg only has something that all of the other races have... do you see where I'm going with this?


PS: Idra is from fucking Jersey. Have you ever met a person from New Jersey? You'd understand his behavior if you did.
"Did not realize gold was such an important threshold for people, I guess I honestly take it for granted that if people practice / invest enough time into this game then they would make diamond in no time." ~Caihead
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:33:11
May 06 2011 12:31 GMT
#15
On May 06 2011 21:25 rkffhk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder.

Like with the jazz musicians: you have to know the rules in order to break them properly


---

About the idea with reading your opponent by way of the timings... that's not really something that is exclusive to Zerg. All of the other races have ways of getting into the opposition's base (Observers, Comsats, for example). If Zerg only has something that all of the other races have... do you see where I'm going with this?


PS: Idra is from fucking Jersey. Have you ever met a person from New Jersey? You'd understand his behavior if you did.


In before someone makes a Jersey Shore photoshop with Idra in it.

Ow yeah, what I hate the most is that people find his atittude acceptable(Especially his fans, evident by the amount of whine, pages of bans etc). It is disgusting that such an atittude should be acceptable in the current era, but that might just be my opinion.
WriterXiao8~~
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:33:20
May 06 2011 12:33 GMT
#16
On May 06 2011 21:18 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:58 Tschis wrote:
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.


There was no rule saying you had to type GG in BW.

I vaguely recall Nada exiting a game without typing gg in proleague once, and his team subsequently receiving penalty points for that. Maybe they've changed it since then.
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 12:37:00
May 06 2011 12:35 GMT
#17
On May 06 2011 21:18 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:58 Tschis wrote:
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.


There was no rule saying you had to type GG in BW.


◆ After change
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss
Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009)


Source

NOTE: this is for KeSPA sanctioned Brood War matches.
♥
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
May 06 2011 12:38 GMT
#18
On May 06 2011 21:35 Hikko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 21:18 loveeholicce wrote:
On May 06 2011 20:58 Tschis wrote:
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder. Just when he plays against people he knows and also on televised and torney games.
I think thats Tylers policy atleast and I like it.


BW Professionals in Korea were forced to type GG before leaving, that's not "culture" to me, it's rules you have to follow.


There was no rule saying you had to type GG in BW.


Show nested quote +
◆ After change
Section 13, Declaration of acceptance of loss
Only 'gg (lower casing in English), GG (caps in English)' will be accepted as declarations of acceptance of loss. Typing anything else to declare acceptance of loss will result in a disqualification and a warning. (With effect from 11th April 2009)


Source

NOTE: this is for KeSPA sanctioned Brood War matches.

Hm, that rule just prevented ww, zizi yo, gg yo etc etc. It doesn't say typing gg is actually required, but typing anything other than gg/GG/ppp would get you disqualified.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
May 06 2011 12:40 GMT
#19
On May 06 2011 21:25 rkffhk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 20:45 SushilS wrote:
Disagree.... Sorry but saying GG is not something about the goodness or badness of your soul...
Its a starcraft culture thing. Something which Greg should understand being the E-sport senior he is.
I dont think he shud GG evry game on ladder.

Like with the jazz musicians: you have to know the rules in order to break them properly


---

About the idea with reading your opponent by way of the timings... that's not really something that is exclusive to Zerg. All of the other races have ways of getting into the opposition's base (Observers, Comsats, for example). If Zerg only has something that all of the other races have... do you see where I'm going with this?


PS: Idra is from fucking Jersey. Have you ever met a person from New Jersey? You'd understand his behavior if you did.


I'm from Jersey. It's not as bad as television makes it look.

@GHOSTCLAW
Covers the introduction.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Mactator
Profile Joined March 2011
109 Posts
May 06 2011 12:57 GMT
#20
On May 06 2011 21:25 rkffhk wrote:

.....

PS: Idra is from fucking Jersey. Have you ever met a person from New Jersey? You'd understand his behavior if you did.


That's a colored statement. Guess everybody is saying that about everyone who is not living in their local community. Usually people are friendly when you get to know them :-). Btw. people who play starcraft are pretty intelligent so I don't see where this girlish drama comes from. gg or not gg in ladder games - who gives a shit?
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