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IdrA is the John McEnroe of SC2.
John McEnroe was known for being childish and whiny on the tennis court... but at the same time, he was one of the best tennis players of all time. (Of all time, says Kanye!)
It's important to recognize that you can be a fan of a player's playstyle/ technique/ strategy/ ability and separately be (or not be) a fan of that person's personality.
Most people thought John McEnroe was a douchebag or a whiner. They also would just as well agree that he was a great tennis player.
Most people think that IdrA is kind of a douchebag or a whiner. They also would just as well agree that he's a great SC2 player.
Granted, his personality may hold him back a little. Case in point: his stubbornness and beliefs regarding imbalance caused him to auto-leave vs. HuK's hallucinated void rays, rather than check out the situation more in-depth first. However, he's still an amazing player.
I'd also like to point out that I think he occasionally brings up some valid arguments (like some of the ones against Day[9] on SotG), but his reputation is so overwhelmingly negative that some people just write off any comment he makes as an illegitimate QQ (which is a logical fallacy known as "poisoning the well").
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he brings some flavor to the scene, bad manners, shit talking, arrogance, w/e its quite typical in most competitive hobbies or sports.
If you find his behavior in-game to be that repulsive then don't watch his games.
Go watch the Caps 24/7 Pens series on HBO where they follow the Washington Capitals and the Pittsburgh Penguins around for a few weeks, all mic'd up... theres a lot of shit talking going on before games, and on the ice, but the spectators don't normally get to hear it... It's different in SC because all of the communicating is done via typing, so the public gets to see it all.
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On May 07 2011 02:44 mesohawny wrote:
he brings some flavor to the scene, bad manners, shit talking, arrogance, w/e its quite typical in most competitive hobbies or sports.
If you find his behavior in-game to be that repulsive then don't watch his games.
Go watch the Caps 24/7 Pens series on HBO where they follow the Washington Capitals and the Pittsburgh Penguins around for a few weeks, all mic'd up... theres a lot of shit talking going on before games, and on the ice, but the spectators don't normally get to hear it... It's different in SC because all of the communicating is done via typing, so the public gets to see it all.
^ someone who gets it
ever watched NFL Network Inside the NFL?
ever been to a live cs tournament?
rugby?
soccer?
baseball?
etc etc etc etc
stop whining and play the game
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On May 07 2011 03:02 zeru wrote:
The reason you think your arguments are correct is because you are talking about something different from others. You think we don't like him because of his behavior in game. But if you bothered to read the posts you will realize it's more to it than just that.
I've addressed that point/stance multiple times in this thread.
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On May 07 2011 03:34 zeru wrote:
What you have done is drawn incorrect analogies and avoided the question i asked, which is different.
You don't like him because he threatens your/TL's idea of what the "community" should be.
Newsflash: This isn't broodwar. There is no longer a stranglehold on the "community" solely because it's so condensed. The community has expanded.
You don't set the standards.
If the vast majority of fans are casual fans who just want to see big battles and fun explosions (as seen from the popularity of Husky/HD's casts), then guess what, that's the community, not your idealistic bastion of self-importance.
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Furthermore, the vast majority of fans of ANY sport WANT to see conflict.
The whole point of sporting is conflict, advancement, and competition.
Trying to force some sense of overly strict normality and calm into a situation made to be explicitly contentious is foolish and silly.
Get over it, or go watch badminton.
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Speed overseers would work in theory. Then overseer, then speed ovies, regular ovies, lings.
Maybe I just suck as a Masters player, Zerg scouts me all the time with their speed ovies coming in at funky angles.
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On May 07 2011 03:45 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:42 natelikewhoa wrote:
Furthermore, the vast majority of fans of ANY sport WANT to see conflict.
The whole point of sporting is conflict, advancement, and competition.
Trying to force some sense of overly strict normality and calm into a situation made to be explicitly contentious is foolish and silly.
Get over it, or go watch badminton. So, will you answer the question if you would like it if every person in the community acted like idra and do you think it would be better for the community in general if they did? Do you think the SC2 community would be taken more serious, so that there would be more interest from the real world, from bigger sponsors than there currently are if it was like that?
I replied to that a full page ago.
I don't know how many times I have to tell you that.
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On May 07 2011 03:50 zeru wrote:Yes, you said you don't care, which is why i asked if you would answer it now. But you probably know how stupid you would sound if you answered yes to any of those questions which is why you won't directly discuss them. You're basically on the edge of arguing from ignorance  .
I don't think it would do any damage to the popularity or skill of the game. Might it shatter this glass castle that has been built around the oh-so-famous TL "I'm not touching you" routine?
Probably.
I don't think it would do any damage to the popularity or skill of the game. Might it shatter this glass castle that has been built around the oh-so-famous TL "I'm not touching you" routine?
Probably.
I don't think it would do any damage to the popularity or skill of the game. Might it shatter this glass castle that has been built around the oh-so-famous TL "I'm not touching you" routine?
Probably.
I don't think it would do any damage to the popularity or skill of the game. Might it shatter this glass castle that has been built around the oh-so-famous TL "I'm not touching you" routine?
Probably.
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The reasons why competitive gaming won't be going mainstream anytime soon have nothing to do with Greg's attitude.
In fact, his attitude probably is more in line with what would work in a competitive gaming atmosphere more than anything.
Any time Halo or CS:Source in the case of the CGS were broadcasted, there was a huge emphasis on shit-talking and competitive nature and drama.
Think of the ultimate gamer show. So much emphasis on shit-talking, drama, and other things outside of the gameplay.
The idea that shit-talking and "bm" will ruin SC's chances at becoming a legitimate sport in the mainstream perspective is infantile.
It has nothing to do with its success or not.
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If you honestly think that a mainstream market cares AT ALL about the "community" and mutual respect of the players, you're more foolish than I previously thought.
There are so many more important variables and market dynamics in play than "bm" and player attitudes.
It's not about taken seriously because of bm or respect, it's about commanding an audience.
SC2 is a joke in any modern marketplace.
More people will sit through ads to watch Maury than they would SC2.
Just how it is.
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On May 07 2011 04:03 zeru wrote:
I don't care about starcraft going mainstream, i have no illusions, it's a video game and it's format would never fit on TV, but that doesn't mean it can't be like korea where huge coorporations own teams, where ALL the players do it for a job and have really good salary. No, I'm not saying people need to be boring robots like in korea for it to become like that here.
You still are talking about something completely different, you're looking at the surface of things while I'm looking deeper down. That's the problem with your arguments, you are too simplistic sadly. I don't care that idra shows personality, it's not at all what I'm talking about. Immaturity and ignorance is the problem in my eyes with idra, and the impact those have on the community as his voice gets heard and people think it's an awesome idea to agree with him. Those are different from personality.
lol okay
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The famous Sean "Day[9]" Plott attempted to reconcile IdrA's argument by saying he was looking at the situation through too-small of a lens, and that there is no true "imbalance", but being the shout caster that he is, he tried to shout cast his argument, and therefore it was not as articulate as it could have been.
This is the most naive thing Ive ever read. Please do not attempt to belittle Mr. Plott, the idea that he is just a "shout caster", is misleading. He is an analyst, with more StarCraft experience than you or frankly almost anybody else. This is disrespectful towards him, and I'd think that even Idra would agree, as I'm sure they have immense respect for each other. What happened on Idra was throwing examples out in what seemed like an emotional state, such as Zerg cant blank, whats the answer Day[9]. Day[9]s point is that in order to truly study the issue of balance, you need more than a simple blog post, or a few direct questions. You need to spend hours, completely unattached from ANY race, with lots of data, and so on. The meta game could radically shift eventually to prove Idra wrong or right. At this moment at least there is no way to really understand balance.
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EPT
