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It's making me facepalm in patch threads/discussion threads where there are people that don't understand basic math/logic/reasoning that do not understand what cheaper upgrades on a forge/ebay/armory mean.
With a lower upgrade cost, when people say you are "getting your upgrades faster" what they mean is you are getting them at an earlier point in the game than you normally would have them if they were not that cheap.
With cheaper forge upgrades, you get them earlier in the game than you normally would - this is fucking common sense that apparently a huge percentage of TL patch thread posters do not have...
Stop with your "i get 1 less stalker bla bla bla" NO. NO!!!! NOOOO!!! My brain is bleeding reading that shit.
Since the people that still have no common sense are still thinking, "omg u get the upgrades at the same time," NO YOU DON'T. You get them sooner in the game!!!!1!!! I will provide you a comparison/analogy so your mediocre protoss brain can wrap your head around it.
Imagine blizzard reduced the stim upgrade cost to 50/50. You will be able to start research on this upgrade much earlier in the game than you would be able to if it cost 100/100.
This is all...common...fucking...sense. Use your brain instead of your balance bias to make posts about patch changes.
TLDR: When upgrades are made cheaper, you can start research on them at an earlier point in the game than you would be able to if they were more expensive. aka they will finish sooner than in the current game.
That is all.
  
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Czech Republic2908 Posts
It was never a question IF we can get the upgrades faster, but HOW much faster. I think your superb terran brain can easily count how faster it is to get 50 minerals and 50 gas while being on 2 bases preparing for sick 2-2 timing attack that will totally change the game because of cheaper upgrades.
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On November 09 2011 07:38 ondik wrote:
It was never a question IF we can get the upgrades faster, but HOW much faster. I think your superb terran brain can easily count how faster it is to get 50 minerals and 50 gas while being on 2 bases preparing for sick 2-2 timing attack that will totally change the game because of cheaper upgrades.
My brain is still bleeding. Please...please, please, will you not listen to logic, and reason my protoss friend? Please! I beg of theee! Re-read my post, and come back enlightened my friend.
I want you to join me ondik, in the age of enlightenment, don't fight it.
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Czech Republic2908 Posts
Then please, enlighten me and tell me how much faster you think will protoss get 2-2.
edit: or rather explain what's wrong with my logic that protoss will get the upgrades faster in the same amount of time he mines 50/50 on 2 bases.
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On November 09 2011 07:45 ondik wrote:
Then please, enlighten me and tell me how much faster you think will protoss get 2-2.
Did you read my blog post...the upgrades are cheaper...you get them sooner in the game than you normally would now...how is it this difficult for you and others to understand.
It's all there in the OP, trust me, you don't need advanced calculus to understand this.
edit: you seem to be someone who gets it, that you get the upgrades at a sooner point in the game. It does not matter how much sooner, you get them sooner. My blog is directed at the people that are making arguments and repeating arguments/posts of other idiots that are saying "omg 1 less stalker zealot bla bla"  because they are trying to claim you get the upgrades at the same time you would pre patch 1.4.2...which is obviously ridiculous.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
I will just quote Gatored
On November 09 2011 07:47 Gatored wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 07:15 avilo wrote:On November 08 2011 18:46 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 18:45 avilo wrote:On November 08 2011 18:43 Heavenly wrote:On November 08 2011 18:38 avilo wrote:
Pretty sure they will revert the forge changes in 1-2 weeks. You're about to see ridiculous protoss dominance. EMP is iffy as well. Lol, the forge changes. Yeah, that one extra stalker or so is going to change the midgame so much. You get the upgrades even faster than you currently would. You don't even need to understand basic math or know how to read a clock to understand that. How would I get upgrades faster when the build time is unchanged? You have a red hammer next to your name, i expect more from you...you get the upgrades more quickly because they are cheaper...you will have enough money sooner...you will be able to research the upgrades earlier on in the game... *facepalm* The level 1 upgrades were untouched for attack and armor. By the time those 2 upgrades are done protoss has the money to upgrade to 2/2 (with the new patch or without). Therefore protoss will not have any quicker upgrades than before the patch. Edit: The only worthwhile upgrades you get in PvT is attack and armor. If you really think 50/50 for both level 2 upgrades and 100/100 for level 3 upgrades are gonna break the game then I don't know what to say anymore.
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On November 09 2011 07:48 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 07:45 ondik wrote:
Then please, enlighten me and tell me how much faster you think will protoss get 2-2. Did you read my blog post...the upgrades are cheaper...you get them sooner in the game than you normally would now...how is it this difficult for you and others to understand. It's all there in the OP, trust me, you don't need advanced calculus to understand this. edit: you seem to be someone who gets it, that you get the upgrades at a sooner point in the game. It does not matter how much sooner, you get them sooner. My blog is directed at the people that are making arguments and repeating arguments/posts of other idiots that are saying "omg 1 less stalker zealot bla bla" because they are trying to claim you get the upgrades at the same time you would pre patch 1.4.2...which is obviously ridiculous.
I think he's suggesting you only get them sooner by as much time as it takes to mine 50 minerals and 50 gas off two base. Which is what? Five seconds? Cool.
Edit: Nvm, I wrote this before I saw your edit. Carry on. : )
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telling people to use their brains? good luck with that.
sometimes I feel like I need to build an ark to protect myself from the flood of zerg and protoss tears.
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That's some serious theorycrafting you got there.
Also that part about "use your brain instead of your balance bias". Ain't that ironic...
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On November 09 2011 07:38 ondik wrote:
It was never a question IF we can get the upgrades faster, but HOW much faster. I think your superb terran brain can easily count how faster it is to get 50 minerals and 50 gas while being on 2 bases preparing for sick 2-2 timing attack that will totally change the game because of cheaper upgrades.
This is exactly what I thought.
I suppose it is possible that being 50-/50 cheaper that this could introduce some kind of a timing window earlier on. But I have a strange feeling Blizz looked at these changes very closely before introducing them, and as such I highly doubt any wacky timing window exists.
In any case, it's all theorycrafting without any replays or VODs.
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Each of the three workers on a single geyser will collect approximately 38 gas per minute, with saturation at approximately 114 gas/min. So if you are on:
2 gas then getting 2-2 will take 13 less seconds.
3 gas 9 seconds earlier
4 gas 6 seconds earlier
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So 1/1 should be 50/50 like concussive so it can be faster right?
Seriously though, build time is the same. . . .
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no man ud obviously only be able to get 1 more reaper if they changed the upgrade to 50/50
duh
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On November 09 2011 07:54 mewo wrote:
So 1/1 should be 50/50 like concussive so it can be faster right?
Seriously though, build time is the same. . . .
I don't think you understand what is going on here.
On November 09 2011 07:54 SiN] wrote:
no man ud obviously only be able to get 1 more reaper if they changed the upgrade to 50/50
duh
This guy understands though don't actually read what he wrote.
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Logic says the upgrades should be faster.
I mean you need less gas and minerals for the process = less work to be done right?
Like carving a spoon from a small branch compared to carving it from a huge tree.
Then again I don't think the time it takes for protoss units to get the upgrades is quite right: as you know they are warped in full gear from somewhere light years away, so where do they stick these upgraded pieces of armor in these guys is baffling.
IMO warped protoss units should atleast stop by the forge to get proper gear or protoss should have a unit like medivac that beams some extra layer of mithril ( or what ever wtf-imbalanced metal protoss units are made of) on these guys.
This in turn would give protoss the much needed macro/micro - mechanic that could silence those who think building the death ball for the first 15 minutes gets boring and they can't warm up for the highly demanding APM's of 70 in the late game.
Also this should be like second nature to protoss players as stopping by in shops makes 50% of playtime in MOBA's and WC3.
For zergs the change is genetic and the terran building is called engineering bay so it doesn't mean they actually make those new guns there, they could very well fax the new schematics to the barracks and bunkers where the changes to armor are made.
The game is broken
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This does not solve avilo turtle
I don't see how it matters vs turtle avilo
Everything dies to avilo turtle
I would like a youtube rant plz. Its been to long since your last one.
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zerg regen health, can't they just pull away units before they die and have 100% unit efficiency over the course of the game?
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this is flawed logic since protoss level 1 armor and attack have not changed, protoss will still make both forges at the same time, and start both of the upgrades at the same time. Since they always tried to maintain continuous production of upgrades from 1->2->3 the end result will be reaching level 3 armor/attack at the same time as pre patch.
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On November 09 2011 07:52 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 07:38 ondik wrote:
It was never a question IF we can get the upgrades faster, but HOW much faster. I think your superb terran brain can easily count how faster it is to get 50 minerals and 50 gas while being on 2 bases preparing for sick 2-2 timing attack that will totally change the game because of cheaper upgrades. This is exactly what I thought. I suppose it is possible that being 50-/50 cheaper that this could introduce some kind of a timing window earlier on. But I have a strange feeling Blizz looked at these changes very closely before introducing them, and as such I highly doubt any wacky timing window exists. In any case, it's all theorycrafting without any replays or VODs.
You don't need replays or VODS!!!!! @_@ facepalms. Lol. Another aspect that people do not seem to understand about upgrades, is it's not all about the 50/50 or whatever the hell you are mining. It's about acquiring that lump sum of cash for the level 2/level 3 upgrades.
When they are cheaper...it's much easier to save up to that sum of money to purchase the upgrades...so in many instances where saving that lump sum might fuck you up because you needed to purchase other things, you will be more easily able to afford the cheaper upgrades, which in turn means you'll end up with them finished more often at sooner points in the game than you would pre 1.4.2.
No replays or VODs needed! You don't even need a goddamn DeLorean at 88 mph to figure this shit out.
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EPT
