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Lately, I've had to wake up really early.
What's happening is I will feel immense wave of tiredness @ 4-5PM. If I decide to take a nap, I Usually sleep 2-3 hours, and consequently, can't fall asleep till 2-3AM.
However, if I resist, I'll stay tired until like 10-11 in which case I fall dead asleep...Only to wake up @ 2-3AM. I'm bright awake @ 2-3AM...i feel like I could start my day, but I tell myself to go back to sleep. What ends up happening is I feel really tired @ 7:00AM (when I actually have to wake up.)
I wouldn't mind this if I could stop myself from waking up @ 2-3AM. It's like my body is treating me going to sleep @ 11PM (which I never do) as a nap.
Anyway to tell/trick my body into doing a fullnight's sleep when I go to sleep @ 11?
thanks
 
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
well, you can force yourself to stay up until midnight or so with the correct dosage of caffeine..
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caffeine overdose might do the trick
or a forced all nighter...
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i actually have this problem... i was alone in the house for a week (aka nobody would wake me up) and i would get out of bed at like 6pm and sleep at 3am. i "fixed" it by pulling and all nighter and sleeping 11pm. i was exhausted by then cause i had been awake for around 17 hours.
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17058 Posts
I'd suggest waking up around 7:00AM or so, doing some exercise (go out, run, play frisbee with friends, etc.), get some reading done, eat big meals, and try to stay awake until 11:00. Go to bed then, and you probably won't wake up until the right time next morning 
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This sounds like my jetlag. What I used to do was sleep everyday 3-4 AM, wake up at 8AM. 2-3 hour nap at 5-6 PM, and repeat. it worked for school, but it was annoying. Probably your best bet is to stay up until 9-10 PM to try any normalize it. From there, you sleep at relatively normal hours, and you can always push it back further after. But I don't advise you to increase your sleep time by 7-8 hours in one night. You could use caffeine, but I normally don't when adjusting my sleep schedule. Slow and steady works the best, but it is, as you may have guessed, slow. A bit faster may screw you up a little the next day, but if you can try and man it out without napping, then go ahead.
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On July 24 2009 12:09 kdog3683 wrote:
Lately, I've had to wake up really early.
What's happening is I will feel immense wave of tiredness @ 4-5PM. If I decide to take a nap, I Usually sleep 2-3 hours, and consequently, can't fall asleep till 2-3AM.
However, if I resist, I'll stay tired until like 10-11 in which case I fall dead asleep...Only to wake up @ 2-3AM. I'm bright awake @ 2-3AM...i feel like I could start my day, but I tell myself to go back to sleep. What ends up happening is I feel really tired @ 7:00AM (when I actually have to wake up.)
I wouldn't mind this if I could stop myself from waking up @ 2-3AM. It's like my body is treating me going to sleep @ 11PM (which I never do) as a nap.
Anyway to tell/trick my body into doing a fullnight's sleep when I go to sleep @ 11?
thanks
Why stop yourself from waking up at 2-3 AM?
If you don't have anything stopping you from going to bed when you get tired later and you wake up at 2-3AM totally refreshed I don't really see the problem
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when you get tired in the afternoon eat some carbs and you will feel so much better. I used to be this way too, it SUCKS.
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United States24770 Posts
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Have you tried exercising an hour or two before sleeping?
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 13:13 dcberkeley wrote:
Have you tried exercising an hour or two before sleeping?
This might work for some people but I think it's generally a bad idea. I can't recall offhand but I think the rule of thumb is 3 hours or more between exercise and bedtime.
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Did you even read my post lol.
How much more specific can I be?
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 13:33 kdog3683 wrote:Did you even read my post lol. How much more specific can I be?
Did you even read my guide? I will gladly help you to the best of my ability wherever the guide falls short... but that doesn't seem to be what has happened.
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It's not hard.
Don't eat a heavy meal before you go to sleep.
Be active during the day seriously if you never move you ass it's doubt full you'll get tired although refrain from doing so 3+ hours before you would go to sleep you body needs to relax
relaxation techniques will help you out if you know them. if so great if not oh well.
Darken the room the darker the better. Believe me when i camp out or go to my aunts cabin it gets pitch black you'll find it hard to stay up for more then 30 min with no lights.
Have a bed time, seriously regular sleeping habits make you sleep very well.
You only really need 6-7 Hours for a good sleep. 8-9 hours is more or less bull unless you are a child as studies shown that most people that sleep 6-7 hours regularly tend to actually be more healthy people.
Avoid naps.
Avoid drinking alcohol or caffeine. they are fine during the day but not so near your bed time 3+ hours etc like working out.
They also recommend if you have trouble going to sleep after you followed all that when you are in bed wait 30 mins if that doesn't work go read a bookfor 20 mins and try again. Don't need the tv up to keep you active.
Also if you have to wake up at a certain time a lot. Make that your daily wake up time have the alarm on always, soon you beat the alarm to wake up.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin
Take melatonin. It will restore your brain to feel sleepy in darkness and alert in sunlight. Force yourself to stay awake until 9-10PM, take 1-1.5mg, sleep somewhere where sunlight will come in during the morning and your cycle should be corrected within one dose.
For my job I travel constantly so I need melatonin to sync my to the local patterns despite leaping 14 hours. Though years of this life I will swear by it.
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 15:21 sk` wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MelatoninTake melatonin. It will restore your brain to feel sleepy in darkness and alert in sunlight. Force yourself to stay awake until 9-10PM, take 1-1.5mg, sleep somewhere where sunlight will come in during the morning and your cycle should be corrected within one dose. For my job I travel constantly so I need melatonin to sync my to the local patterns despite leaping 14 hours. Though years of this life I will swear by it.
I would not take Melatonin without being instructed to by a doctor. From what I've read (which is admittedly a bit outdated with regard to drugs) most of what people think they know about Melatonin for treatment of sleep problems is wrong... so just be careful.
I wouldn't be surprised if the mental cue Melatonin creates for you is strong enough to put you to sleep when you think the drug is what's doing it.
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Micro:
So you're going to tell him to avoid it with no current data or personal experience and claim a hormone your own brain releases to trigger your own rhythms is a placebo? Glad my brain is giving me that placebo.
Sheesh, at least read the wiki before you post. The only dangerous point to someone your brain is supposed to naturally release is that doing it for too long trains your brain it doesn't need to. Thus, I only use it to cure jetlag or periods of insomnia.
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 15:56 sk` wrote:
Micro:
So you're going to tell him to avoid it with no current data or personal experience and claim a hormone your own brain releases to trigger your own rhythms is a placebo? Glad my brain is giving me that placebo.
Sheesh, at least read the wiki before you post. The only dangerous point to someone your brain is supposed to naturally release is that doing it for too long trains your brain it doesn't need to. Thus, I only use it to cure jetlag or periods of insomnia.
The book I read specifically told me about Melatonin (Say Goodnight to Insomnia). It is a very good book and I always encourage people to read it. I'm not just pulling this advice out of my ass, but if you can link to research which is more recent than the book I read other than Wikipedia then I am willing to change my opinion on the matter. Also, I did look at what Wikipedia had to say.
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Micro:
If you're actually read on the topic why not source data or references instead of just saying "zomfg, be scuurred!"?
Either way, he can do what he wants, I'm only going to speak from experience as a person who's been traveling heavy for roughly 13 years. I don't know what's to fear from taking someone one's body makes naturally - especially in moderation.
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 16:24 sk` wrote:
Micro:
If you're actually read on the topic why not source data or references instead of just saying "zomfg, be scuurred!"?
Either way, he can do what he wants, I'm only going to speak from experience as a person who's been traveling heavy for roughly 13 years. I don't know what's to fear from taking someone one's body makes naturally - especially in moderation.
I lent the book to someone so I can't quote it but the author specifically said the idea that it's okay to take it because your body produces it naturally is a misconception. However, recent research might have concluded that his worries were for nothing; I'm not sure.
Regardless, I try to promote drug-free approaches to sleep problems as much as possible. There are cases where that may not work such as your situation, which I acknowledge.
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So his "worries" weren't actually based in research, but rather the realm of speculation and opinion. Meaning, as a researcher, the concept that taking the hormone your brain releases to regulate you would make his book's work largely pointless. Got it.
Everyone knows you shouldn't go directly to a drug-based solution; though, in this case it is more in the realm of a hormone-based solution. Either way, I'm not telling him to make it a nightly event, but if he needs to snap out of a slump, this is a quick one-night fix. However, if it continues for a long period of time, he has a much larger problem that likely needs the attention of a doctor.
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United States24770 Posts
On July 24 2009 16:44 sk` wrote:
So his "worries" weren't actually based in research, but rather the realm of speculation and opinion. Meaning, as a researcher, the concept that taking the hormone your brain releases to regulate you would make his book's work largely pointless. Got it.
No that's not accurate. His book is based on years of research. Although Melatonin research wasn't his specific area he was up on what was true at the time. I wish I had the book so I could check exactly what he said, but if I recall correctly he said that there was almost no research which indicated that melatonin had the positive effects that people thought it did.
On July 24 2009 16:44 sk` wrote:
Everyone knows you shouldn't go directly to a drug-based solution; though, in this case it is more in the realm of a hormone-based solution. Either way, I'm not telling him to make it a nightly event, but if he needs to snap out of a slump, this is a quick one-night fix. However, if it continues for a long period of time, he has a much larger problem that likely needs the attention of a doctor.
Unfortunately not everyone knows that lol... many people jump to sleep aids really quickly...
I don't agree with your mentality completely though (with regard to the second half of that paragraph). Even snapping out of a slump (looking for a quick fix) shouldn't be attempted initially by using drugs or hormones if at all avoidable. Every time you use an external solution to a sleeping problem, you build a mental belief that you need that solution next time you get into the same predicament, and dis-empower yourself. If I needed to use a drug/substance every time I messed up my sleep schedule in college it would have gotten ridiculous fast. I learned to deal with it. Granted, the OP's problems are different than mine were.
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Micro:
The important point here is that labeling melatonin as a potential placebo is false as your brain is producing it when it feels it is time to sleep. Believe me, when it hits you, you will be sleepy (at night). The nice thing about it too is that since your brain reduces it in the sun you can usually take it during day light and not feel sleepy (why you would is beyond me, but for reference I've found when trying to correct sleep from large jetlag taking it during day light had no effect aside from wondering why it wasn't working).
There are times in which one cannot rely on natural methods as they tend to be slow. Ex. jetlag, or someone who's working like the OP.
Now, the other issue is that you state dependence (mental) on a substance is the primary reason to avoid. However, humans respond differently here. Some people do get easily addicted (which, your statement is about addiction) and thus will only see the substance as their road to their goal. Other people don't. I can't know for each person so I can't say. The issue here though is routines can be addictive in the same manner; which is largely what your guide suggests. Sure, you're only recommending things that are healthy, I won't fault you there; merely, anything can be addictive in this way. For example, if someone follows your guide and does exercise in a certain time to sleep they may fall into a belief that without that they won't sleep. So, should they miss the routine, they are awake. This is the same as substance addition if we use your example.
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EPT
