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News of iloveoov's collapse, possibly due to lack of sleep, makes me think how far Starcraft has to go before it becomes a truly mainstream sport.
There's been a lot of analysis of Starcraft the game - how to clump your mutas and what the best builds are. But there's been next to no analysis of the players. What is the optimum practice time? How many hours of sleep do they need? How long should they play before resting their eyes?
As a result, players push themselves to practice more. They don't know any other way to get better. But if more practice = better results, then why was Bisu able to beat Savior into the ground after a one week holiday?
This is completely unheard of in other sports. It's like pouring every dollar into making the best car of the century and then asking Lewis Hamilton to do nothing but drive round and round the track, stopping only for meal breaks. It's like formulating a strategy for football (soccer) and then asking the team to just do it in practice match after practice match for 20 hours a day. Not only is it not effective, it's dangerous.
Every other mainstream sport has sports psychologists and doctors attending to the players. It makes good business sense - if you just spent millions on buying Ronaldo, would you want him to collapse on the pitch and spend the rest of his expensive contract sitting on the bench? No, you want him well rested and receiving optimum training so he goes out there and gives you what you paid for.
Starcraft may be too small to justify having doctors on standby. But at the very least, some common sense needs to guide the teams' training schedules.
We already know, for example, that after one hour of staring at the computer it's good to take a 5 minute break to rest the eyes. We already know that prolonged sitting in one position can lead to Deep Vein Thrombosis and that stretching is vital. We already know that the body takes a while to calm down and enter sleep, and that having less than 7 hours of quality sleep impairs motor neural function. All these should be incorporated into the players' schedules so they can perform at their best.
This is a great time to start thinking about this. With all teams having sponsors and the first batch of ACE players leaving the army, teams are now acquiring coaches. These are REAL coaches whose job it is to analyse players' strategy and tactics and advise them on the best way to play. (Technically they are considered players and take up "player" slots in the Proleague, but I'm sure PL will soon open up "coach" slots for them.)
These coaches are older and more mature and have been through the training regimes. They should realise that their job is to make their players perform at their best, and that means taking good care of their health, not just their builds.
iloveoov's collapse should be used to highlight the need for safe, healthy training regimes that will improve players' performances. After all, these players are still young. They have a great future ahead of them. It would be criminal if they acquired a host of medical problems before 25 because of some misguided theory that more practice = better play.
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Hmm well the starcraft teams do have pyschologists and stuff, I read it a while back from an interview. Hey, but players get hurt all the time in other sports and even die.
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51534 Posts
didn't in your documentary highlight that xellos needed STAMINA?
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I didn't know Korea had psychologists period...lol.
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Isn't this what they always emphasize on in our culture?
Make the most of your youth. Asian culture at its finest.
In a sense this rings true.
But Oov really isn't in his prime anymore, right?
I agree about 12+ hours of practice though, even if the teams have an exercise routine and strictly abide to them, 12 is a bit much for many people.
However, with the current level of competition, and the lack of other methods, how will the teams transition into the ideal sportsman's schedule?
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The thing is, this is standard Korean work ethic. They practice things for hours and regard sleep as an obstacle that limits your practice time. They firmly believe in "Practice makes Perfect" which leads to obvious problems such as oov's recent health issues. While no one can stop these players from practicing, they should try to enforce some health policies such as stretching and sleeping.
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On July 16 2009 15:37 sArite_nite wrote:
However, with the current level of competition, and the lack of other methods, how will the teams transition into the ideal sportsman's schedule?
I'm hoping eventually teams will see that it's quite cheap to do things to improve their players' health and this in turn will make them play better, so everyone is happy.
The Singapore Army tries to protect its soldiers' health with cheap, easy measures (water parades, adequate sleep etc.) and it's such a big, screwed up organisation. SC teams are smaller and can definitely do the same.
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South Africa4316 Posts
I agree with you 100% that the players need to be looked after more, but I don't know how practical your suggestion is.
The problem is, changing the practise regime like this will take a long time before the positive effects start showing. If KTF adopt this strategy, they won't suddenly start winning everything, yet every loss could potentially be ascribed to "I didn't practise enough". I mean, some players already say that after they lose games, even with their rigorous schedules, think how quickly they (and the coaches) will blame that if they start losing after cutting their practise times in half.
There might also be some truth to what they have to say. Sure, in physical sports there might be an argument for too much exercise, as the body can only handle so much. However, this isn't necessarily true with mental sports. Anyone that's ever had an extended exam period can tell you that studying 8 hours a day for three weeks will probably have you do better on your subjects than studying 4 hours a day will.
I'm not saying that there isn't a possible improvement on the current system, but I am saying that comparing SC to physical sports isn't valid, and that I don't see it as very likely that people will try out new ideas any time soon. Until the players get big enough that they can have agents making demands for them and defending their rights, the tried and tested method of practising as hard as is humanely possible will stick. It's only when someone with authority says that players are not allowed to practise more than 6 hours a day or something, that teams will be forced to examine alternative methods of training their players, which could eventually lead to more effective training regimes.
Also, I don' t think that comparing their practise to Hamilton driving around the track for 10 hours is fair, not just because of the physical aspect of F1. Most interviews I've seen said that players play 20-30 games a day, something which I don't think takes up all their practise time. SC practise might be more similar to something like chess practise, where games are played (but not just mindless games, games that specifically practise something) for some of the time, while theories are examined the other half. In chess, learning theory and playing can both be done by using a board and pieces, but you go about them completely differently. I assume SC would be the same, where for instance in a new BO practise, players would focus on trying out new ideas, rather than getting their scouting perfect.
All that said, I think my very first post on the site was a huge post in which I argued that progamers need some protection, perhaps in the form of a progaming union or something. I still feel like that. Progamers get the time that is most important for their future taken away from them and put into gaming, only to have a five or six year career that ends just when they should be entering the workplace with some qualification. While the top players might get a salary that could be worth it, what about the B-team players, who at best get an average working salary? In most sports, the top players get enough money to last them a life time, while the weaker players still get way more money than the average worker (look at FA 1st and 2nd division teams), and the really weak players can do things like continue their studies while playing. Progamers need a some protection for both their health and their future in my opinion.
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Oh god I hope Oov gets better. I just hope this doesn't manage to happen again. Yes, the players needs to be looked after more. I agree 100%, but I dunno what we can do about it =/
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
I agree with most of what Daigomi has to say.
People do not know how they should train to get the most results. There is no scientific method to this. They know that practicing more will make them better.
The reason behind the 14 hour work schedule is because both the player and the team management have a incentive to have the players play starcraft. They player wants to get better to make more money. The team wants the players to win more games.
I don't think the team cares about the health of it's players. In the NFL, a player gets cut if he gets injured. He also gets cut if he doesn't perform well. The team doesn't have to pay his salary for the rest of his contract. In starcraft, if a player can't handle practicing 14 hours a day, which is required to perform at a high level. He will be replaced with another player who could do that. Kingdom had to quit starcraft because he has wrist problems.
In order for the players to get protection. Free agency has to be established, so that players can make demands to progaming teams in the form of salary and protection. Without free agency, the player has to follow the team's demands because the team has control over his playing time and salary.
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On July 16 2009 16:34 Daigomi wrote:
I agree with you 100% that the players need to be looked after more, but I don't know how practical your suggestion is.
The problem is, changing the practise regime like this will take a long time before the positive effects start showing. If KTF adopt this strategy, they won't suddenly start winning everything, yet every loss could potentially be ascribed to "I didn't practise enough". I mean, some players already say that after they lose games, even with their rigorous schedules, think how quickly they (and the coaches) will blame that if they start losing after cutting their practise times in half.
I know what you mean, and it is a concern, especially for the sponsors. I think your idea of a players' union could help.
But even with that said, some of what needs to be done is really small, like taking short breaks to rest eyes and wrists, or ensuring that gamers get the kind of food they need to stay alert and healthy (which might mean forcing some of them to eat their greens). Publicising it would make the fans and the parents happy, might open new sponsorship avenues and would put pressure on other teams to do the same.
On July 16 2009 16:34 Daigomi wrote:
There might also be some truth to what they have to say. Sure, in physical sports there might be an argument for too much exercise, as the body can only handle so much. However, this isn't necessarily true with mental sports. Anyone that's ever had an extended exam period can tell you that studying 8 hours a day for three weeks will probably have you do better on your subjects than studying 4 hours a day will.
I think they are comparable, it's just finding out what the optimum is. So for instance in physical sports you can't train flat out 7 days a week, but you also can't slack off and only train half a day every day and take a Sunday off. It's not healthy to study flat out for 8 hours a day, everyday, but it's not effective to study 4 hours a day for a couple of weeks and hope to pass either. The point is to find that optimum level where progamers can keep going at max capacity.
On July 16 2009 16:34 Daigomi wrote:
It's only when someone with authority says that players are not allowed to practise more than 6 hours a day or something, that teams will be forced to examine alternative methods of training their players, which could eventually lead to more effective training regimes.
I'd like to think that teams will eventually do things like that anyway, but I agree with your first point. It will take some time for such things to become acceptable.
On July 16 2009 16:34 Daigomi wrote:
All that said, I think my very first post on the site was a huge post in which I argued that progamers need some protection, perhaps in the form of a progaming union or something.
This may happen with the number of players coming out of ACE. Maybe there will even be a kind of scouting agency which spots good players and helps groom them and then negotiates their contracts with the teams.
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Players that are qualified for individual leagues shouldn't be allowed to play in pro league
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Valhalla18444 Posts
given the way sponsorship works thats a horrible idea
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On July 16 2009 18:08 Boonbag wrote:
Players that are qualified for individual leagues shouldn't be allowed to play in pro league
You know, there was a team that did something like that before... I think it was SKT that didn't allow their players to sign up for more than one individual league.
On the one hand, it turned out to work even better than expected, because they all dropped out of their one and only individual league as well and could concentrate on PL. On the other hand, they all dropped out because they sucked and they continued sucking at PL too.
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On July 16 2009 18:08 Boonbag wrote:
Players that are qualified for individual leagues shouldn't be allowed to play in pro league
Ah, that's why they're called PROGAMERS. They should be PROhibited from playing GAMES.
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EPT
