The thread title basically sums it up. Also a disclaimer, this'll probably be the whiniest post I'll ever make on TL. Sorry about that. Oh, and I'm writing it at work, which uses IE, so it doesn't have the built-in spellchecker of Firefox. Please don't mind any incidental spelling mistakes
Anyway,
I have no clue what I want to do with my life. Currently I'm a sophomore at Duke University, and if I successfully complete my program of studies, I'll be the first statistics/biology double major do graduate from there. The problem is, I have pretty much no clue what I want to do with my life after college. I've thought about a lot of things, but nothing's been really calling out to me.
Like any Asian, I've considered medical school. My family has some pretty extensive background in medicine - some of my relatives were doctors, my mom taught in a medical school, etc., so that's what they're pushing me to do. The job security is excellent and the pay is decent, but honestly, I just don't want to go through medical school (especially residency), and the pay doesn't make the crappy hours and hellish 20's worth it. I just don't care enough about people to become a medical doctor. At this point, I'm not even sure if I want to finish my premed prereqs - I don't think I'll even apply to med school, and taking orgo at Duke is a GPA killer.
To be honest, I don't even know why I'm doing a major in biology anymore. I'm somewhat interested in it, but now that I think about it, I don't think I'm interested in it enough to justify killing my schedule (I have to take only biology and statistics courses from now on to satisfy requirements) or GPA (mainly molecular bio, genetics, and microbio classes). At this point, though, I think I'm going to be irrational (from an econ point of view), and go through with the major, even though it's pretty much a sunk cost for me.
And really, what am I going to do with a biology major? It's not that useful of a major for getting a job (ok, better than, say, communications), especially since I have a great job-getting major in statistics. Not sure whether or not to drop my bio major, or if it could potentially be useful later in my life.
As for statistics, I've thought about being an actuary. The main things holding me back are the fact that I'd have to take some econ courses to pass some of the exams. I figure I'd have to take econ courses anyway if I wanted to do anything in the finance fields (for mucho $$$), so meh, that's not really that bad of a downside. Econ at Duke is killer, though. Actuaries also make a decent living and have great jobs. I'm not so sure about security, though. Isn't a lot of actuarial work outsourced?
Anyway, I [i]do[i] want a doctorate, but if I do become an actuary and a fellow in one of the societies, I don't think I'll have much motivation to go through with a PhD program. At the moment, I think I'm going to want a PhD in statistics, since I'm really interested in statistics and just think it's absolutely fascinating (along with like...two other people in my grade). Not sure what I'll do with it, but I'm sure places will hire a statistics PhD.
some very "default" occupations that classmates of mine went into...
i-banking consulting
well I doubt you'd enjoy i-banking, but consulting might be worth considering (though your hours will rape you up the ass and through your mouth), as it'll offer you the opportunity to go through many "jobs" within a few years, which may point you in the right direction in terms of career path. Having a math / bio background makes you flexible in that regard too, as you'd be able to go into pharma consulting and related areas.
Might also help to complete like a management minor program or something related if Duke offers something (which I expect they do)
Office jobs of any kind are great for earning money that's disproportionate to what work you actually do, but can be boring as hell, since so many lack really interesting tasks. Actuarial work and the like are often having you dedicating to improving someone elses finances or goals, and you don't often get a sense of satisfaction at a job well done.
It really depends on your other goals in life. As long as you don't have any dependants, job security probably won't be a massive issue (and is really overrated these days, imho) and you can look to what makes you the most money in the shortest time, thus giving you opportunity to travel or indulge your hobbies.
If you plan or want to get married or look after parents etc. etc., then that can make an otherwise tedious career fulfilling. If you want to secure your financial situation in general, then put your nose to the grindstone now and work on getting a house and some long-term investments down.
On July 14 2009 22:49 thedeadhaji wrote: some very "default" occupations that classmates of mine went into...
i-banking consulting
well I doubt you'd enjoy i-banking, but consulting might be worth considering (though your hours will rape you up the ass and through your mouth), as it'll offer you the opportunity to go through many "jobs" within a few years, which may point you in the right direction in terms of career path. Having a math / bio background makes you flexible in that regard too, as you'd be able to go into pharma consulting and related areas.
Might also help to complete like a management minor program or something related if Duke offers something (which I expect they do)
There's a certificate program in management and marketing, but without overloading my schedule or taking courses over the summer, I won't be able to complete it. There are literally no courses that count for both statistics and biology credit - interestingly enough, the "biostatistics" courses doesn't count toward a statistics major since the math involved isn't rigorous enough. I'm not sure if it counts toward the biology major either. It might just be a graduation requirement or something for people interested in biostatistics who need a "quantitative science" requirement to graduate without taking math :/
you need to take econ courses to be an actuary. not just to pass exams. you just have to, and get them passed/qualified by some board. i think job security is pretty okay. i mean, with americas greatest commodity being financial services, i dont see it going anywhere.
Nothing to be sorry about, It was relieving to see that a person have similar to mine problems. I guess if you are that much into the statistics dedicate more time to this, you will get paid for whatever you do better than the other ppl. I'm a econ student myself and there are not many things that I like about it, because I always wanted to make smth with visual arts involved, I have no idea how I got in this econ stuff...nevermind
I guess its the age. Dont think that much about what you want to do with your life, its more likely to end up in "the what the other ppl want from you situation", where you will just fit in the gap where you and your skills will find the best use.
and to counter tracils idea, i worked for a firm for a summer and got GREAT satisfaction from it. you typically book like a hundred hours on a project and send out a gigantic report of your work and findings, from a casualty side anyway. that report is satisfying as fuck. cant speak from the more financial investment side of the career though.
and the pay is INCREDIBLY disproportionate to the amount of work. it was really easy stuff, and they make buck.
On July 14 2009 22:52 Tracil wrote: Office jobs of any kind are great for earning money that's disproportionate to what work you actually do, but can be boring as hell, since so many lack really interesting tasks. Actuarial work and the like are often having you dedicating to improving someone elses finances or goals, and you don't often get a sense of satisfaction at a job well done.
It really depends on your other goals in life. As long as you don't have any dependants, job security probably won't be a massive issue (and is really overrated these days, imho) and you can look to what makes you the most money in the shortest time, thus giving you opportunity to travel or indulge your hobbies.
If you plan or want to get married or look after parents etc. etc., then that can make an otherwise tedious career fulfilling. If you want to secure your financial situation in general, then put your nose to the grindstone now and work on getting a house and some long-term investments down.
Yeah, I'm looking to eventually start a family and own a house (or two). Also, I'll probably be taking care of my mom as well when she nears retirement (although she probably has a gigantic retirement package (shifty eyes)).
I'm a rising Junior here at UNC-Chapel Hill. Have you considered doing Biostatistics? I'm majoring in Biostatistics (I'm a pre-med) through the BS in Public Health program here through the UNC School of Public Health, but the school itself is excellent (#2 Public Health School in the U.S.)
I do hear that Orgo is a killer at Duke, but Orgo here at UNC-Chapel Hill is a killer too where we're renowned for chemistry ><.
If you don't want to pay for medical school, perhaps you could consider a M.D. PhD, since they pay for medical school (through the Medical Scientist Training Program) - but of course, this will probably lead to a hellish 20s also. Maybe you could go for a PhD in something like Biostatistics, or even computational biology. Have you involved yourself in any interesting research during your time there?
Guys that become actuaries will be burned out by the time they are 30. Don't do it, the job is basically endless number crunching; i don't imagine that to be very exciting unless you actually like number crunching.
(To have some flavor of where this is coming from, I did econ & math double as undergrad, then went on to Phd. Worked as consultant during grad school, doing the same now.)
First off, you have the right idea: its important to like what you do. You can push yourself through anything, but ultimately, in any field, you will be competing with some people who DO love what they do. Its really hard to keep up with these guys day in and day out. This is an important consideration for grad school as well.
I have considered actuarial work & have 2 friends who are actually doing it.The work is ok, but not necessarily for everyone. One of my friends hates it actually, but has no other comparable options in this bad job market, so he's stuck. The thing he hates is redoing those big reports to make the client's liabilities look smaller based on movements in LIBOR, choosing dates that are more favorable (future liabilities get discounted to a present value & shown on the balance sheet; if discount rate goes up, liabilities seem smaller in PV, but in reality you have to pay the same annual amounts). He thinks this is BS and does not add much value, and may be somewhat dissingenuous. There is an element of this in any consulting job though.
The happiest guy I know was in a similar position to you in some ways. He liked quantitative things and biology, but did not want to be a hospital doctor. He did a psycho-bio major as an undergrad and worked in the campus lab (feeding mice, etc,). In his last 2 summers he got 2 excellent interns with guys doing some sort of neurology/brain research. He thought this was the coolest thing ever and went on to get his PhD in the field.
If you do not want to go that route, a bio/stats major is extremely solid for working for a big pharma company. You could get an entry level technical job, then 3-5 years down the road get them to send you to an MBA and move into management. Typical corporate career really - so make sure you choose a big company (so there's a ladder to climb!). You're in the NC research triangle - good area for that sort of thing.
To summarize - I know its confusing right now, but you sound like you're in a good position and have many options. You're a sophomore, so make sure you use the summers wisely (may be more important than course work for some alternatives). And enjoy this period, your life will get much "narrower" once you pick a path, get married, buy a house, etc.
I had a friend that was an biometry/actuary major at Cornell, pretty easy to find a job, insurance companies look for them. I personally find this very interesting as they do all the math to determine your insurance rates etc. I know that Prudential and other insurance companies offer well-paid internships in the summer, so if you are interested look into that.
Likewise if you want to get into the medical/biological field, bioinformatics/biometry is also there.
If you are completely unsure and want to run with your bio degree, you can go the MD/PhD route where its a pretty sweet deal since it allows you to do both research (clinical or otherwise) and have patient interaction. Rocking a 5 year grant from the NiH while having the job security of working at a large regional hospital is pretty sweet.
Go out and experience things, classes are tools for you to use and the means to achieve an end(s), but until you do it, you really don't know
On July 15 2009 00:06 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: end it
XD
Also, thanks for the suggestions on MD/PhD programs. I'll look into those, although they'll probably be hard as hell XD
Also: Coincedentally (to whomever suggested big pharma), I currently have an internship with Eli Lilly and Company (big pharma...Prozac, Cialis, Zyprexa, etc.), and it's not bad. I might actually look into a career with them, though not in the department I'm working in (analytical chemistry lololololo nothing to do with my interests!).
Try for medical school - why the hell not, you already have most of the prereqs so what's a few more classes. Try it unless your GPA/MCAT is so terrible that you know you have no chance
Don't go into medicine for the job security and monies. If you don't like working with people all day (especially old ladies demanding medication) then you will not enjoy being a doctor. It's better to do something you like to do than to do something for external reasons beyond the job itself.
If you don't want to do medicine, do your PhD in statistics but focus on the biological aspect as well. I believe the current trends in research, particularly systems biology and epidemiology, are favouring those with statistical AND biological backgrounds. Pure statistics probably won't be that useful but there is great potential in the future for biological modelling, evolutionary studies etc.
EDIT: Just read your above post... going to work for big pharma is good too!
On July 14 2009 22:42 Empyrean wrote: And really, what am I going to do with a biology major? It's not that useful of a major for getting a job (ok, better than, say, communications), especially since I have a great job-getting major in statistics.
On July 14 2009 22:42 Empyrean wrote: And really, what am I going to do with a biology major? It's not that useful of a major for getting a job (ok, better than, say, communications), especially since I have a great job-getting major in statistics.
Become a starcraft addict, make a pact that you will invent a new revolutionary theory that will explain all things in Starcraft and study every player and playstyle for the next 15 years. Then go to uni and take a master degree so you know how to make scientific studies. then reinvent Starcraft with your +15 years you invested in games, using the academical skills you aquired from uni.
Power through school like i plan on doing because I am becoming increasingly restless then model the rest of your life after the littlest hobo, but not as a dog.
You can either try to do a hobby for a living, or you can work a really intensive job and have expensive hobbies on your vacations.
Just think about jobs you can see yourself doing, and make some decisions. Don't drop the bio part of your major.. You'll just regret it later. It's not a sunk cost to keep it. It's a sunk cost to have spent all this money getting this far, and then suddenly decide not to finish it. It'll help you later in life whether it has anything to do with career opportunities or not (but it will, because it makes you look like a more well rounded person). Plus you're not going to impress any girls by saying you're a statistics major (LOLOLOLOL BYE), but they'll think you're smart if you say you're in biology.
Im just gonna say that you dont need to give a crap about people if you want to become a doctor. You just need to want to know.
Honestly, i think your goal should just be to get a degree in something with a good average, and then you can get a masters in anything you want and use that to get a job.
Take some computer science classes and go into bioinformatics research! The field heavily makes use of statistical methods and of course a good understanding of biology only helps.
Don't go into med school unless you're 110% sure you want to do it. But it seems like you've already figured out that you're not going down that path...
As for your bio major, having it complement your stats major will definitely help keep your options open in the future and help in your career search. Whether or not it's worth the trouble (especially if you say you're not that interested in it) is up to you decide. Bio/stats seems like a great combination - don't let the fact that no one at Duke has done it before scare you, it's probably because of the relatively new and small stats program.
I'd second the recommendations of others to look into bioinformatics or systems biology, it's a rapidly expanding field that looks really promising. Currently there is just a shit ton of basic research being done and information being uncovered, but not nearly enough people or resources to process or make sense out of it.
I don't know where you got the idea that econ at Duke was killer, because it's not. Sure it's not a cakewalk like other majors (i.e. psychology), but econ classes are not any harder (with many being significantly easier) than your bio or stats courses. You're still a sophomore, you can afford to try an econ class or 2. Also like someone else earlier suggested, try a compsci class or 2 as well.
I would second Bioinformatics as it would fit well with your present studies. However, only go on this route if you're serious about completing it and honestly want to better yourself and your knowledge in the field. Obligatory plug of my own university:
Helsinki University of Technology in conjunction with Helsinki University offer an International Master's degree programme in English. There are no tuition fees (aside from around 70€ required to join the student union) and the level of education is very high. If you're interested, please take look into the programme here.
EPT
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