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Gooood.
I don't know if it's just today but suddenly I feel like this matchup is seriously fucked up. It has probably something to do with the fact that I've only played 2 games on Andromeda and 2 on Heartbreak Ridge today but I lost them all.
These 100 apm D+ tosses just expand in safe places, cannon up and put a couple of goons there. And these expos are pretty far away and I don't what the fuck to do about them tbh.
Then when I secure a fourth and move out these fuckers just recall into my main with their 100 apm l337 skills that allow them to stasis all my tanks and keep their units invisible....arbiter. GRR
That or they do a 1a2a3a into a group of my units that are just SLIGHTLY misplaced and a fucking mine gets dragged into my units and destroys stuff.
Andromeda is so big that toss can expo in far away places and then tech up to gayriers and just stand on a cliff and kill shit with interceptors.
Toss units don't need to be microed the same as terran units in TvP and those fuckers just move small clumps of units into my scattered army (I'm trying to kill their expos).
FUCK, I'm seriously having a hard time seeing how anyone can make TvP justice on Heartbreak ridge or Andromeda.
Edit: UGH, not to mention DT:s when you're out of scans.
FUCK FUCK FUCK =(
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Build lots of vultures, mine up likely recall targets, and suicide the vultures into the cannoned toss expansions. TvP the Fantasy way!
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One reason why I switched to Zerg, but then again, it's not exactly any better =/
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On July 11 2009 07:36 motbob wrote:
Build lots of vultures, mine up likely recall targets, and suicide the vultures into the cannoned toss expansions. TvP the Fantasy way!
Thanks I'll try that. Actually, lots of vultures for harass purposes is a good idea.
I'm pretty decent mechanically and average 270-310 apm, it's just that TvP sucks for me on some (big) maps.
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Yeah heartbreak ridge is pretty hard at first. Lots of cheese in PvT as well.
What I've been finding somewhat sucessful at the C- rank is 4 fact timing push, using the hills to your advantage. If he opted for a fast 3rd, and kept his units at his natural, you can do a fast 4 fact push with like 6-7 tanks and 12 vults, and push to the ramp that divides his 3rd base from his natural. You seige up, push him back, then take the top of the ramp, and seige a few up, then take the rest and move them into the hallway towards his 3rd. If he doesn't have a shuttle, he will die super fast. If he does, just make sure you bring 2 scvs with your push, and turret.
The advantage of this push is that once you secure your tanks on the ledge that leads to his 3rd, there is practically no way for him to kill you. He has to take fire while he comes up the ramp, at which point you should me mass spidermining it, to delay his units. If he chooses to sit back and wait for more units before pushing, then his 3rd base dies. Its a great spot to do a fast push, becuase you got multiple targets at once ;p
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On July 11 2009 07:37 Grobyc wrote:
One reason why I switched to Zerg, but then again, it's not exactly any better =/
Yeah...Terran is just too goddamn frustrating. You're harassing and microing and doing a gazillion things at once and BOOOM, a successful 1a2a3a attempt/recall destroys you.
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On July 11 2009 07:41 eXigent. wrote:
Yeah heartbreak ridge is pretty hard at first. Lots of cheese in PvT as well.
What I've been finding somewhat sucessful at the C- rank is 4 fact timing push, using the hills to your advantage. If he opted for a fast 3rd, and kept his units at his natural, you can do a fast 4 fact push with like 6-7 tanks and 12 vults, and push to the ramp that divides his 3rd base from his natural. You seige up, push him back, then take the top of the ramp, and seige a few up, then take the rest and move them into the hallway towards his 3rd. If he doesn't have a shuttle, he will die super fast. If he does, just make sure you bring 2 scvs with your push, and turret.
The advantage of this push is that once you secure your tanks on the ledge that leads to his 3rd, there is practically no way for him to kill you. He has to take fire while he comes up the ramp, at which point you should me mass spidermining it, to delay his units. If he chooses to sit back and wait for more units before pushing, then his 3rd base dies. Its a great spot to do a fast push, becuase you got multiple targets at once ;p
Good stuff, I'll keep that in mind! The next ICCUP protoss that meets me shall instead meet his maker as a result of my kick ass 4 fact push.
I'm D+/C-....I always hover between these two ranks and it's annoying because I know I can be higher if I learn more strategy. I'm C high rank
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lol at GAYRIERS. I'm a Zerg player, but I'm one to think that TvP is in favor of Toss until you get to higher levels of gameplay, especially on larger levels. Terran seem to require relatively high effective APM to be competitive against protoss. Just my opinion from what I've seen, all feel free to correct me if needed.
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I feel the same way about ZvP...I always fuck up my early game and end up getting my ass 1a2a3a'd in the midgame... -____-;;
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Play like a fucking madman
seriously
learn the dropship build, learn 2 fac, leard strong FD, learn they gayest shit terran has that's not quite all in
fuck fast expo, you need to get these noobs OUT of their comfort zone, and FUCK ANDROMEDa
Watch Brat_OK. Only after you religiously watched all his replays can you start playing TvP.
I went 30-4 last late season playing only TvP on NMedusa and Collo, and of course i'm not that good, but I just had revelations, and I learned how to fuck with these newbies' minds
gl
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United States11390 Posts
proxy anything/everything and still remain at least even or ahead
-_-
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Woot, good to know my favorite race pisses just about everyone off :D
Sounds like vultures will cure most your woes though.
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just do fantasy style, drop vulture, then mass speedvult and 2tank in a dropship for the rape
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Andromeda is perfect for 3 point harass as every spot is very vulnerable.
Just remember the places to harass.
If he expos far (another main)
a.) He walled off- get 2 dropships (2 tanks 4 vultures) and rape the expo.
b.) Did not wall off- Go fantasy style 1 dropship (2tanks) with vulture reinforcement.
Natural harass- drop the cliff next to the gas.
Mineral only harass- Place vultures below, scan, and rape.
If your apm is legit, go for drop at his 4th base, drop his natural, and vulture harass his mineral only. Those 100 apm toss players will cry IMBA if you successfully pull it off.
It may sound like alot but it really isn't if your opponents are actually 100 apm.
Unload dropships at the 4th and siege tanks.
Unload at natural and siege tanks.
Move vulture to below mineral only, click hold position and scan.
Walla! You have 3 point harass raping the hell out of the low apm toss.
Heartbreak ridge is another story though..
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watch artosis rep pack from scl, very aggressive player
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That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part, especially at low levels, and it's just the way it has always been. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it.
On July 11 2009 08:21 AoN.DimSum wrote:
watch artosis rep pack from scl, very aggressive player
Can you provide a link?? I visit no other sc site than tl.net, so it would take me a while to track it down.
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what i usually do against TvP is, i wait until i'm 3/3 and then i attack
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I have lost like my first 10 TvP games on heartbreak on iccup, too. A few things that made it better now: I found out how to wallin lol, I try to mine out the back minerals for sneaky vulture attacks, I am very successful opening 2 fac atm, I think vultures are very good on heartbreak.
But then again I'm only C-/C level :/
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United States11390 Posts
On July 11 2009 08:38 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part, especially at low levels, and it's just the way it has always been. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it. Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 08:21 AoN.DimSum wrote:
watch artosis rep pack from scl, very aggressive player Can you provide a link?? I visit no other sc site than tl.net, so it would take me a while to track it down.
http://www.sc2gg.com/hosted/wc8/SCL_Rep_Packs/Artosis.zip
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On July 11 2009 08:38 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:
That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it.
Um, if TvP requires more skill than PvT. How is the matchup balanced?
I know what you mean, I just want to hear your explanation for this.
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On July 11 2009 09:10 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 08:38 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:
That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it.
Um, if TvP requires more skill than PvT. How is the matchup balanced? I know what you mean, I just want to hear your explanation for this.
if u wanna beat a low apm protoss terran needs more apm. terran has harder marco instead of protoss going gateway every game. we need to baby sit our army alot more than toss and sometimes you wish it was 3base terran vs 3 base toss cause i cant stand the "1 more base than terran" thing
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On July 11 2009 09:10 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 08:38 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:
That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it.
Um, if TvP requires more skill than PvT. How is the matchup balanced? I know what you mean, I just want to hear your explanation for this.
The mu is balanced cause there are no "super strats" or other ways to ensure a definite win. Whatever one player chooses to do, the other one has the ability to scout it or predict it, prepare for it and eventually be ready to counter it in time.12 carriers won't ensure you win, neither does getting 200/200 3/3 terran army.
On the other hand the T player has to try more to produce results that will cause an "even match". Let's imagine that apm tranlates to skill (and I'm not saying this is the case at all): I would have to play with 220 apm with Terran to be an even match for a 150 apm toss.
In other words, let's say that you want to be in band. If you want to be the guitarist, you have to be playing the guitar for at least 3 years before you get in the band, whereas to be the bass player you can do it after just 1 year since you started it. In the end, neither of the 2 instruments is more important than the other at forming the band (no imbalance  ). Again, this is an exampe and has nothing to do with reality :p
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United States10774 Posts
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On July 11 2009 08:58 Tehinf wrote:
what i usually do against TvP is, i wait until i'm 3/3 and then i attack
just do this. its practically unbeatable
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well I watched Rage play TvP in his stream and I've watched some of Artosis replays and they seem to have a similar style. Somewhat camping and having several K minerals in the bank and wearing the toss down by advancing slowly. They just take the game inch by inch and it's so unlike koreans aggressive play.
I'm not that safe of a player, and I strive for mechanical perfection. However my strategical understanding lacks :/ I wish someone could teach me some stuff
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On July 11 2009 11:48 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 08:58 Tehinf wrote:
what i usually do against TvP is, i wait until i'm 3/3 and then i attack just do this. its practically unbeatable
Yeah I know that's just what I meant about Rage and Artosis (the games I've seen from them anyways). That style would drive me nuts because I would get bored out of my mind coming into a game with a specific plan to NOT move out before 3/3.
Like I said I'm more aggressive and my apm allows me to multitask quite alot. I've gotten some great advice in this thread because like I also said, my strategical understanding while playing sometimes isn't that good. I've watched replays and VOD:s for 7 years now though.
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When I was terran player I had the exact same feeling. That the terran got the short end of that stick.
Then I switched to protoss, and though I still respect Terran opponents a lot, I dont find the mu half as hard anymore.
I guess there are a few things that you gotta keep your mind open to.
First, sometimes is not the right time to end the game with a single, reckless push. That got me killed several times as terran player.
If the protoss is protecting the expansions, instead of wearing yourself out with harassing attempts, just gain a new grounds. Like, plant mines in a strategical position of the map and move your units there with scvs.
In HeartBreak Ridge, often terrans will take the middle, and once they secure it, it becomes a nightmare for protoss.
Terran is not like protoss that can just walk over with 1a2a3a4a. I think it is more strategical, and slow developing.
So keep that in mind too, even if you are aggressive.
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On July 11 2009 21:10 Leath wrote:
When I was terran player I had the exact same feeling. That the terran got the short end of that stick.
Then I switched to protoss, and though I still respect Terran opponents a lot, I dont find the mu half as hard anymore.
I guess there are a few things that you gotta keep your mind open to.
First, sometimes is not the right time to end the game with a single, reckless push. That got me killed several times as terran player.
If the protoss is protecting the expansions, instead of wearing yourself out with harassing attempts, just gain a new grounds. Like, plant mines in a strategical position of the map and move your units there with scvs.
In HeartBreak Ridge, often terrans will take the middle, and once they secure it, it becomes a nightmare for protoss.
Terran is not like protoss that can just walk over with 1a2a3a4a. I think it is more strategical, and slow developing.
So keep that in mind too, even if you are aggressive.
Yeah I agree with what you're saying.
Maybe TvP is sorta like PvZ is for protoss and ZvT is for zerg...in some way
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On July 11 2009 09:10 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 08:38 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote:
That's just the way it is buddy. TvP requires more skill than PvT for the most part. There's nothing wrong or unbalanced with the matchup. Just deal with it.
Um, if TvP requires more skill than PvT. How is the matchup balanced? I know what you mean, I just want to hear your explanation for this.
It doesn't require more skill. Well, it all depends on how "skill" is defined.
The decision-making aspects aren't all that much more difficult, but the mechanical execution is. ~_~
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EPT
