• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:24
CEST 00:24
KST 07:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview25Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates7GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Cheeseadelphia 2025 - Open Bracket LAN! $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I made an ASL quiz [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 1
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 21200 users

Some proleague stats

Blogs > heyoka
Post a Reply
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 22:03:21
April 17 2009 22:02 GMT
#1
(that may or may not mean anything)

Inspired by this article I decided to see if there was any intersting analysis that could be done.

Looking at the past two normal (non-winner's league) proleague rounds, the number of 3-0 wins is 12 (18%) for round 1 and 16 (24%) for round 2. I combined them for a sample of 21% (28/132). Doing a basic hypothesis test, under the assumption that .21 is an accurate predictor for the future, the z-value ends up being around 3.4. This makes the probability of getting this result by chance somewhere near a tenth of a percent. Using that data, it seems that we can say that the new maps have influenced the result and the coaches who won 3:0 are right in their gloating.

Thats probably not a good conclusion though. Taking the wind out of that argument's sails is Samsung's performance: they won 3-0 against Woongjin Stars and then lost 0-3 to Hite Sparkyz. Its especially damning because statistically Stars and Sparkyz should have roughly equal strength vs Samsung as a whole. Feeling frisky, I ran the numbers again after having throwing out one and then both of those matches, and the probability hits just above 1% in the second case. Still a strong number, but the sample size becomes so small its hardly trustworthy data (in a case where the "good" sample size is still way too small).


The more interesting thing I found doing this is the distribution of match lengths.

[image loading]



In rounds 1 and 2 of the current season, just over half the matches went to the ace match. This means that the skill difference between teams looks like its pretty small (even though final standings might not reflect it), but more importantly, shows just how necessary having a good ace player is. Oz and Samsung take many of matches to ace (45% for both of them between rounds 1 and 2) and were able to stay above the pack for the duration of that period by having ace players in the 60-70% winrate.

For more evidence as to just how close the teams are in wins, a distribution of who holds the most embarassing losses



[image loading]



Unsurprisingly, ACE is the biggest contributer to the number of matches that only last 3 games. With a single team having 30% of the losses that end before set 4, it seems that the skill gap between teams 1-11 is even smaller than the match length chart indicates.



Ultimately, there aren't any strong conclusions that can be made, as the sample size is small and I'm using methods you might find in a 9th grade stats class, but some of the numbers are fascinating. I think there still might be a way to try and test the idea that some teams are likely to do better on a new map pool, but I haven't decided on any good metrics of measurement yet. The maps are the start of this season weren't new so the data set to work with will stay impossibly small for the forseable future.

I am not ready to throw out the idea that skill gaps change as the metagame developes, but I can't say it DOES happen with a ton of confidence. Tenatively, I want to say that there is probably a (larger than normal) difference between teams right now, and this week we are likely to see a slightly higher percentage of short matches with the numbers normalizing the week after.



An interesting aside:
+ Show Spoiler +

I played around with some probability distributions, and if we assume each player is exactly 50% against each other player, then the chance of getting 7 3-0s in 10 matches (first week) is .000038. If we assume 65% (which I think is near what we would find if we could quantify it) then it is still .00029, both of which are considerably less than a tenth of a percent. There is absolutely nothing that can be said from getting those numbers of course, the assumptions are wide and the methods used are rough at best.


***
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
April 17 2009 22:16 GMT
#2
Lol, nice dude. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you to are studying for the AP stat exam in may? Also, I'm pretty sure you didn't meet a few of the conditions when you went and did these :p
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Kuja900
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3564 Posts
April 17 2009 22:48 GMT
#3
Hm im interested if its possible to redo the percentages without ACE as they tend to lopside the graph (love you ace but ;
OMG you nasty gurl
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
April 18 2009 21:44 GMT
#4
On April 18 2009 07:16 n.DieJokes wrote:
Lol, nice dude. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you to are studying for the AP stat exam in may? Also, I'm pretty sure you didn't meet a few of the conditions when you went and did these :p



It doesn't for central limit stuff, but for testing proportions it should be fine (we're sort of assuming that the first 2 rounds had a normal distribution though which might be iffy).
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
19:00
Day 4
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 149
UpATreeSC 90
JuggernautJason81
ForJumy 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 12417
TY 89
yabsab 37
Counter-Strike
fl0m5124
Stewie2K637
taco 433
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0997
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3046
Other Games
B2W.Neo551
FrodaN511
summit1g431
JimRising 373
mouzStarbuck130
ViBE72
ZombieGrub72
Trikslyr71
Mew2King65
KnowMe37
RuFF_SC222
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3216
Other Games
BasetradeTV83
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH91
• musti20045 35
• davetesta31
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21858
• Ler134
League of Legends
• TFBlade1355
• Shiphtur555
Other Games
• imaqtpie1127
• Scarra499
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 36m
CranKy Ducklings
11h 36m
Bellum Gens Elite
11h 36m
SC Evo League
13h 36m
Fire Grow Cup
16h 36m
CSO Contender
18h 36m
BSL: ProLeague
19h 36m
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 1h
SOOP Global
1d 4h
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
1d 10h
Classic vs GuMiho
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
AllThingsProtoss
1d 12h
Fire Grow Cup
1d 16h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 19h
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
5 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.