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I'm not used to speaking about that kind of personal stuff on web forums, especially not on TL, but this time I really need as much advice as I can get--and since I know we've got a bunch of specialists around here, I'd like to give it a try.
So I've been in love with a coworker of mine since last November (she got there in September, I was already working there). She's 30 (I'm 24) and recently married, so I had very little hope to begin with.
Yet I never could help but chat/joke around with her as often as I could. Just being around her made me feel really great, and since it seemed to be enjoyable to her as well, I kept it on for a couple of months. As a result, I became more and more fond of her as time was passing... to the point where I realized I was completely obsessed and couldn't hold it any longer.
I did hold it for a while though, and after some time realized she might have been feeling something similar as well. She started to give me some sorts of 'signals' and I wasn't sure if I was just making shit up or not... until last weekend. She sent me a straight, clear hint through an email, telling me she couldn't help emailing me during weekends, and a few other similar things.
The next monday (three days ago that is), she again sent me a couple of hints through MSN at work. That's when I decided it was time to tell her how I felt and see if it was mutual. It was unbearable anyway, so I had to. I took her to a café right after work, and there I did it... She told me it was mutual. That she couldn't stop thinking about me, had problems sleeping because of it and wanted to spend most of her time around me. She was half crying and we held each other's hands for a good 40 minutes without talking much as we were both quite shocked.
I took her in my arms for a minute or two as well. However, I didn't kiss her (except on her hair). I wanted to, but I do respect her and her marriage a lot and didn't want to force anything. She obviously didn't seem sure as to what she was going to do. After a while, she just accompanied me back to the gare and we kissed each other on the cheeks and said bye.
But tuesday was completely different. She did seem different at least. She clearly let me know that she wasn't even considering leaving her husband (I didn't expect her to make such a decision after a day of course, but I did hope she would at least think about it considering what she told me). She also said that she didn't think what she felt for me was love, but only a very strong form of friendship (that she didn't want to go away). I told her that I had a hard time believing her considering what she told me the day before. That you don't wake up in the middle of the night thinking about a "great friend"... But yet, she refused to call that love.
Anyway, her decision sounded firm. And she's convinced that revealing it to each other will make things easier for the both of us. I told her I didn't believe it would work out that way, but she does seem pretty optimistic. I do know it will never work for me at least.
So at that point, I have no idea what to do. I don't know if I should still retain any form of hope or rather completely give up on it. Whether I should quit my job to forget about her totally, or just keep things the way they are and try to enjoy our relationship as I did before without hoping for more. (I don't really think I can do that, actually.) I'm also considering starting to be willingly more distant to her to see if it can provoke some kind of reaction. Not sure it's worth it though, and it'd be pretty hard for me to pull off.
Also I can't help but think I've made mistakes. Maybe I should have gone for the kiss on monday and things would be different today. But she's married and she seemed completely confused, that would have been like a stolen one to me. And that would have made things even harder should she have taken the same decision afterward.
Maybe I should have waited a little bit longer before telling her, too... her feelings seemed to be growing and maybe waiting two or three more weeks could have made a difference?
Anyway, if you guys have any advice to give me as to what I should do now, or just general advices about all of this, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
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Doesn't sound like it was an issue of time... it just seems like she had a sudden rush of guilt after that afternoon. It is possible to be in love with two people at once as well, but it seems like maybe she's just recoiling at becoming a "cheater".
My guess is that if she really really likes you, she'll find a way to rationalize cheating on her husband with you eventually. Otherwise you might have to start letting go? Regardless, I wouldn't press it in the short term.
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Here's my naive opinion:
This person is married. She made a mutual commitment with someone not to see other people. She has indicated that she will not break this commitment in order to be with you.
It's possible that she has an open marriage, but judging by what you said, probably not.
With this in mind, do you want to risk hurting her in order to get what you want (emphasize "risk" - I am not implying that it will inevitably result)? I won't presume to answer that for you, and it wasn't a rhetorical question. You decide.
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I would think that your job is extremely important. Unless it starts to become seriously awkward then I would suggest against resigning. To the issue of the girl though, I would suggest you to, or at least make an effort to try and ignore some feeling you have for her. Eventually, if nothing happens, they can go away, and messing with her marriage would be a bad decision. I hate to be blunt but the idea of you causing her to divorce her husband for you can't end well in any way. So anything further than a close relationship probably won't be the best decision in the long run.
As for the kiss, I believe it was the right thing to do. Refraining from any action was probably the best decision.
In short, it is that anything more than a relationship can only result in short term.
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Homewrecka!
In all seriousness, I really doubt many people have been in this spot and can give you solid advice, so take what you get from here with a grain of salt. I think you have two options after her shift Tuesday: tell her that you love her again, and that if she doesn't want to leave her husband and be with you that you're going to have to cut ties, because it would be too painful for you; OR, you can keep talking to her and biding your time.
All this said, you're messing around with someone's wife, and a co-worker. You need to be very careful, or this could end up fucking up not only your relationship with her, but fucking up your job.
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Not to be offensive but..
Hey dude, she's married. Leave her alone.
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I know she's married--I don't want to break that at all and I won't force anything. I do want what's best for her though. I know if I were married and fell in love with someone else I'd be asking myself some questions, especially if I didn't have children yet. Questions such as "am I really happy in my current situation?"
But I'm not going to insist or anything. I just told her the door was open in case she changed her mind. What I'm more interested in knowing is whether I should quit my job to make it easier for her (and me), or if staying around is a better option. She told me she wanted me to stay and keep doing like nothing had happened, just as friends. But I'm not really sure it can work.
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For me, easiest way to distinguish right from wrong is to put yourself in that situation. In your case - put yourself into her husbands position and imagine how would you feel if someone was trying to seduce your wife. We're all human and we're all vulnerable by our irrational feelings, so you might actually be successful at getting her, but it's so damn wrong in my world view. Think about it.
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On April 09 2009 23:09 Jusciax wrote:
For me, easiest way to distinguish right from wrong is to put yourself in that situation. In your case - put yourself into her husbands position and imagine how would you feel if someone was trying to seduce your wife. We're all human and we're all vulnerable by our irrational feelings, so you might actually be successful at getting her, but it's so damn wrong in my world view. Think about it.
It's not about getting her in any way. I don't think my original post was about that. By "what I should do?" I don't mean "what I should do to get her?", but "what should I do to make it better for both of us?".
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On April 09 2009 23:09 Jusciax wrote:
For me, easiest way to distinguish right from wrong is to put yourself in that situation. In your case - put yourself into her husbands position and imagine how would you feel if someone was trying to seduce your wife. We're all human and we're all vulnerable by our irrational feelings, so you might actually be successful at getting her, but it's so damn wrong in my world view. Think about it.
If she doesn't love her husband they're going to get divorced eventually, or she'll be unhappy for the rest of her life out of some sense of duty to her husband (who, likely, will be unhappy in the marriage because his wife doesn't love him and it will show). If our information is correct, and she's being honest about her feelings and not doing this as some kind of retribution or to make him jealous, it's a doomed marriage and honoring it is nothing but a farce.
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On April 09 2009 23:07 PoP wrote:
I do want what's best for her though.
It's hard when it's about love but try to be rational.
Do what's best for you.
Do you know what she really wants? What she wants from you? What you can really expect from a potential relationship with her?
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Wait till their divorced??
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I've got to agree with the above... she's married dude. Let's see what happens:
A) In the extremely extremely unlikely situation that she divorces her husband and chooses to live her life with you do you really want to be the guy that fucks up a marriage? Think of the poor guy on the other end at the very least. And just how long and how much stress/anguish is it going to cause everyone to go through that whole process? It will take years for any closure if something like this happens. During that time, everyone is going to be an emotional shipwreck. And think about the type of woman you will be possibly marrying. Can you really say that you trust her 100% if she can do what she did to her ex-husband...
B) Far more likely is that she will never divorce and you will keep stringing along. You'll keep clinging on to the hope that somehow she will be with you and everything will be okay after that. You might have some more intimate encounters with her, some sex..whatever, but your soul is going to get destroyed. Because you're going to be thinking about her 24/7 but you never will be with her properly. You'll always be number 2 in her life. The bit on the side. Nothing more. You'll be risking your job, your social life, all the other relationship opportunities and your sanity. That sounds pretty ott, but you if you are obsessed with her as much as you sound.. it doesn't sound too far off.
Then one day.. even while you curse the heavens for getting into the mess.. the shit will really hit the fan. She will move house / change job / change city / have kids and just completely cut you off. Then your mind will be completely fucked. Because thats when you will really realise what a waste of 3/6/12 months its been.. how futile and pathetic any hope of being with her was...
So... do C) Sit down and chat with her. A serious business chat. Tell her you have to minimize all non-job related contact with her. She will understand of course.. because she probably has been thinking the same thing. The 'okay, we'll just be best buddies for life' is not going to cut it, you're going down path B). We're only human. You might think you handle the emotions and the mini heartbreaks everytime you see her but you're just going to become more obsessed.
C will be fucking hard and difficult but is the only responsible route to take. It's good you've thought about quitting your job if worst comes to the worst... because if that what it takes to get out of this emotional mess then you're gonna have to do it. To help you with C.. the usual stuff applies. Get obsessed/involved with something else. Force yourself to spend more time doing other things.. like hanging out with your friends more, getting obsessed with another (single!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hohoho) girl...getting ready for SC2 etc.etc.
Good luck.. keep us updated please~
oh yeah as pretentious as i sound... im not pretending the above is any special advice.. everyone knows that stuff.. including Pop. I just wrote in that style to get the point across as bluntly as possible. :/
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Hungary11284 Posts
The emotional situation sounds complex for sure. The one thing I am curious about is if the job is worth staying. I mean, are there alternatives or would quitting that job be a setback for you?
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On April 09 2009 23:31 Elric wrote:
[...]
oh yeah as pretentious as i sound... im not pretending the above is any special advice.. everyone knows that stuff.. including Pop. I just wrote in that style to get the point across as bluntly as possible. :/
I agree 100%
It might seem cynical but... it's just true.
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this is hard to say
like you describe it the feeling really seems to be mutual but she probably sees herself as a "decent" woman and respects the institution of marriage and the promise of faithfulness connected to it. Another thing is that she just "recently" got married, probably thought her live was finally settled and would continue like that... and then you come and she falls in love with another man so shortly afterwards. If she is able to suppress it she'll learn to live with it and though she may have the feeling she "missed" something still accepts the fact that she's tied to her husband. So, convinces herself that she loves him though her feelings have told her something different initially.
what can you do? wait if that will happen, or if she decides otherwise and can _not_ live with that situation, that mistake (given the situation is as assumed) for the rest of her life and makes a fundamental break. you could ask her - when some time has passed and she still seems as miserable as you - if she wants to live with that for the rest of her life.
yeah, otherwise.. suppress it as well.. if you can.. it's only hormones and there are other women (some new info here) although you say "but i can't change my feelings.. they are just there". take distance in that case and force your mind not to think of her, think less of her, although you see her daily, but try to only "register" her and not think of her in a sexual sense. when time passes your feelings should become less painful (hey theory!).
actually i don't know  if she's not the person to make a fundamental break and rather stays conventional, you can do nothing. only quit your job if it totally fucks up your emotional life or bear it if you can manage that. maybe she will quit her job if she really loves you but on the other hand is unable to leave her husband.
you can live with mistakes and still lead a pretty satisfying life though you may think now and then "what if i had..." ... or you decide you can not or do not want to live like that and do something against it. but this depends wholly on her because YOU would be ok with it if she broke up with her husband for your and her sake.. it's only the question (as mentioned numerous times) if she can.
if you find the strength try to provoke some signals that tell you how her true feelings are and act based on that. that's all you can do. you can not _force_ her out of her relationship, just double check if she's really and finally firm with it or if she reconsiders / would reconsider.
and to all that crap with "she's married, man": better admit a mistake sooner than later. if she's now - so shortly after her marriage - unsure of her feelings (towards her husband), how will it be in 10, 20 years? and is it better to break up then (if she meets another man), when they have built up more of a life together?
but the main uncertainty is if it's actually "strong friendship" (bla bla) that she feels for you or love which even blanks out her husband. without that knowledge you're pretty much at 0 
*edit* some of the stuff i wrote is obsolete based on the comments that have been made while i wrote this down but still... take it as the perspective that i provide. cheers.
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If I were you I wouldn't quit my job (unless it sucks anyway), but I would distance myself from her. I don't think you can just pretend it never happened.
And stop it with that "stealing that guy's wife" shit. He is not forcing anything.
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On April 09 2009 23:53 KarlSberg~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2009 23:31 Elric wrote:
[...]
oh yeah as pretentious as i sound... im not pretending the above is any special advice.. everyone knows that stuff.. including Pop. I just wrote in that style to get the point across as bluntly as possible. :/ I agree 100% It might seem cynical but... it's just true.
I also agree. But if it doesn't work out in your favor, sometimes you just have to let go.
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5673 Posts
I'd walk away from this while you still can, Pop. She's not someone's date, or girlfriend, she's someone's wife, and she has a husband. There is a simplistic view a few posts up that if she has feelings for you her marriage is doomed and all sorts of rubbish like that. IF ONLY love was that simple, and you could know within an instance if someone was right for you or not.
To be fair, very few relationships are doomed from the outset, and putting yourself in a situation like this with a married woman is only going to end in hurt on all sides. You mentioned she is newly married, and that can contribute a lot to what she is feeling. Maybe she has commitment issues, and if so, these may well transfer in to your relationship, should you ever have one. Of course, she may have made a mistake in choosing a partner, and if so, you can hang around and wait till she decides she has.
However, putting yourself in the picture as a viable option before she chooses to be single is not helpful, even if you are looking at it solely from your point of view. Remember, she is married to this other dude, and until such a time as she isn't, you're always just going to be that other dude.
So um, whether you look at it from a moralistic point of view, or just think about it based on what you have to gain personally, the situation looks pretty grim anyway. If you're nuts about her, take steps to move away from being like that, and if she continues to flirt or make advances, sit her down (as someone said earlier) and ask her to be clear with you.
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yep and if you are a christian you proly know that its immoral to continue with a relationship as such. marriage is a bond and should not be broken and she probably knows that 2. human feelings are somewhat complicated but ur feelings can be redirected.
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United States12607 Posts
Great blog.
Here's my advice: you need to move on, as soon as possible. If that means you have to quit your job, then so be it (but try to avoid that, at least for a while).
Unrequited love happens all the time, and it sucks hard. But you have to put aside your feelings for this woman for a moment and thing practically about what your future is like if you continue to pursue her. She's made it clear to you that, even if she was interested, she would not break off her marriage for you. So at this point, you have to be thinking that, even if you do "succeed" with her, the best you're going to get is an affair. And come on man, you are way better than that.
What's more likely, though, is that this woman is committed to her marriage and, once she had some time to think about it, realized that she didn't want to throw away her married life for you. That fact hurts, but if you go into denial about it you won't get anywhere - in fact, you'll just waste even more of your time when you could be out finding another woman who will please you.
That's my two cents: if you "succeed" with this woman, you still probably won't have her for yourself, and if you continue to pursue her but fail, you'll regret it later. Just do your best to pick yourself up and move on - at all costs.
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Now THIS is a girl blog.
I agree with JWD, I think it would be wise to just pursue other women and see what happens with time. She knows you're interested, let her make up her own mind. I think she has to see if it's just lust or love.
Question; I am confused at these dates. Did you take this woman to the cafe on Monday and than expect a decision on the Tuesday? Or was that Tuesday three weeks afterwards. I ask because you wrote that it was three weeks ago.
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sorry to say but that woman might only wanted sex and when she realized you are in love with her she just "ignored" you in a way saying she sees u as a friend. Seriously women get scared by things like: i love you . out of nowhere...
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That is someone's wife.
Not your wife.
Not your wife!
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I bet all who are saying "That's not your wife!" are either married or religious  or both
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I totally agree with Elric who points out some good points.
The worse thing that you should not do is to pressurize her and make her feel trapped.
Here are the things i see from my point of view:
You love her and she knows it but now she is trapped into a sort of dilemma. I think you made her feel very special (and women love THAT) and desirable at some point that her husband did not manage to. Thus, she is confused and now tries to do what she thinks is best for HER. Will she break a tangible commitment and place a bet on you?
So let her go. Think about you. Think about what’s really best for you. You said that you would have not expected her to quit her husband right away. It is honourable but how long do you think that you can handle this situation? Could you stay gently weeks after weeks while she is living her doomed marriage? I can only foresee frustration which could lead to some unbearable situations (argument, anger, misery…).
I don’t know you at all but I can tell you the most frequent mistakes that are made after this kind of situation are: more love declarations, sympathy gestures, to try to convince her with relevant (or not) point of view, to force her (sic!), to chase after her, to be satisfied with your “friendship”, to make concessions, to look desperate and the most important: lost yourself.
You offer her your love and she “refused” it. You said you can not believe this quick twist of attitude from her. I think it is a good thing and prove she is a reasonable person. She preferred to stop something that she thinks she could not handle: adultery.
Let’s imagine that your relationship went further. If she could not make her mind with her marriage, she will finished completely torn apart. And the risk of breaking with you is very, very high. You will be more devastated than today. Believe me.
So the best thing to do right now is to move on. Try not to be friend with her because you will be constantly switched between hope and deception. It is not healthy at all. You will loose your mind.
It will be fucking hard to remove her from your mind but you have to. Like Elric points out: force yourself into something else as sports (work out for example), hanging out with buddies. If you can afford quitting your job, do it. It is the best way to heal. It will take weeks, months but you will be ready for another (healthier) relationship.
Well, it is just common sense and i understand that you need advices from others. However i truly and deeply believe that you already knew all that and what to do.
You just need confirmations, right?
Take care of yourself and wish you all the luck to get better.
Regards.
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China3334 Posts
Are you sure about quitting your current job JUST because of her? I mean, this is absolutely not a great time. You might better think about your career first. If it's a promising job and you are doing well, why quit? Or if it's not hard for you to find a new good job and you want a new start, then maybe....Not seeing not haunted, some old Chinese saying.
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I would wait for emotional exhaustion to set in before acting rashly. People acting in fits of passion are liable to make bad decisions (concerning things other than the objects of their passion, that is.)
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Thanks for all the advices.
First of all, since many of you are wondering, she told me several times that she does love her husband. It's not like she wants to stay with him only because they're married or something. Now that's been said, I must say I couldn't imagine myself being married and thinking about someone else most of the time without asking myself serious questions such as what my real feelings for my wife/husband are, and whether I'm really happy.
I see most of you advise me to forget about her, and that's more or less what I expected. That might very well be the best option in the long run... but I still want to try a different approach first, only because losing such a great friendship (that's what it is before anything else) would be a huge loss for both of us. Trying to remain friends may be impossible and/or painful, but this is what she wants (I asked her) and what I believe we should try and do first. It may sound naive, and it most likely will fail, but if we both try to focus our "emotional brain" elsewhere (her to her husband, myself to other women... if I can), there's a slight chance we both manage to eventually move on, while retaining that friendship.
If I'm speaking about quitting my job, that's because it's basically impossible not to think about her if I don't. We're often having lunch with the whole team, and our respective jobs make us interact with each other on a daily basis. That means if I do have to "let her go" in the end, resigning would be the only possible option. I know it's not a great time at all to do so, plus there's the fact I really like my job (and everything that goes with it), but I do have enough resources to take a few months off if necessary (and I will probably have to anyway if I cut every part of my relationship with that woman), and I don't see any other "let go of her" solution.
In any case, I think I'm screwed for a while: 1. I know I probably won't end up with her now; 2. I haven't been able to feel anything for any other woman since I know her, simply because she's 100% my ideal woman (and I told her). Actually it's like my video games experience after I discovered Starcraft. I basically stopped playing any other game because they all suddenly didn't seem interesting anymore. And that's since 1998. Even when I stopped playing SC for more than a year, I still didn't find interest in any other video game, simply because I was unconsciously comparing them to it. And that's exactly what's happening and will keep happening for a long while between me and other women. I doubt there's any way out of it, and if there is it will take years. And that sucks. :/
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you will find another woman
sort of like sc2 from sc!
(bad example)
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I definitely wouldn't do that, but I haven't been even in a close situation to yours, so...
Best of luck!
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It doesn't sound like she ever had a change of mind....most likely she never considered divorcing even though she had a thing for you. Btw...you wouldn't want that to happen anyway whether or not you realize it (imho).
What she might have wanted was to have a little fun and 'risque' relationship with you. For whatever reason she felt her marriage was really being put on the table and, even though she liked you, she wouldn't trade that. As long as you don't pressure her marriage, you can probably still hook up with her. It is still a dangerous business but that might be half the fun.
devil's advocate, sure, but at least 50-60% of married couples (who get divorced) in the US agree with me, in word or action.
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dude careful if you do get hooked up with her...it would suck if the husband realizes it and tries to hunt you down -.-;;
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On April 10 2009 00:39 Salv wrote:
Question; I am confused at these dates. Did you take this woman to the cafe on Monday and than expect a decision on the Tuesday? Or was that Tuesday three weeks afterwards. I ask because you wrote that it was three weeks ago.
Missed that question. It was indeed the following day, but I obviously didn't expect a decision by then. I just hoped a "I need some time to think about it" kind of reaction--probably that was too optimistic of me.
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Quit your job if you have to.. create distance and when you feel comfortable try to be her friend/stay in contact until her marriage falls apart..
DONT be the reason it falls apart though.
You have like 50% odds that it won't go the distance and considering she is having strong feelings for other people already that's at least another 5%..
Again don't actively be the reason it fails though... just wait it out.
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United States12607 Posts
On April 10 2009 03:23 inReacH wrote:
Quit your job if you have to.. create distance and when you feel comfortable try to be her friend/stay in contact until her marriage falls apart..
DONT be the reason it falls apart though.
You have like 50% odds that it won't go the distance and considering she is having strong feelings for other people already that's at least another 5%..
Again don't actively be the reason it fails though... just wait it out.
This is awful advice. You do not want to "wait out" a marriage! You could spend 10, 15, 20 years sitting around, maintaining your valued "friendship" with this woman, and wishing you were with her. That would be a waste of your affections and your life. I know this is hard PoP, but you need to move on.
On April 10 2009 02:24 PoP wrote:
I see most of you advise me to forget about her, and that's more or less what I expected. That might very well be the best option in the long run... but I still want to try a different approach first, only because losing such a great friendship (that's what it is before anything else) would be a huge loss for both of us. Trying to remain friends may be impossible and/or painful, but this is what she wants (I asked her) and what I believe we should try and do first. It may sound naive, and it most likely will fail, but if we both try to focus our "emotional brain" elsewhere (her to her husband, myself to other women... if I can), there's a slight chance we both manage to eventually move on, while retaining that friendship.
There's no way a friendship will work - and you know it. When a guy says "losing a huge friendship would be a loss for both of us", what he really means is "I'm totally in love with this girl, and I'm going to keep pursuing her under the pretense of preserving our friendship". This woman might genuinely value your friendship, but you need to put yourself first - if maintaining that friendship is going to drive you nuts and prevent you from getting over her (it is), then you shouldn't.
This woman has made her position really, really clear - she's married, in love with her husband, and not interested in a romantic relationship with you. Now you have to do whatever it takes to accept that as fact and get on with your life. That probably means abandoning the idea of a friendship. From the beginning you never wanted this woman as just a friend...and you definitely won't be able to shake those desires now.
Good luck. It's going to be really tough, but if you move on now you will be much happier a year down the line. Trust me, I've been there.
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Elle joue avec tes sentiments ;(
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On April 10 2009 03:52 JWD wrote:
There's no way a friendship will work - and you know it. When a guy says "losing a huge friendship would be a loss for both of us", what he really means is "I'm totally in love with this girl, and I'm going to keep pursuing her under the pretense of preserving our friendship". This woman might genuinely value your friendship, but you need to put yourself first - if maintaining that friendship is going to drive you nuts and prevent you from getting over her (it is), then you shouldn't.
This woman has made her position really, really clear - she's married, in love with her husband, and not interested in a romantic relationship with you. Now you have to do whatever it takes to accept that as fact and get on with your life. That probably means abandoning the idea of a friendship. From the beginning you never wanted this woman as just a friend...and you definitely won't be able to shake those desires now.
Good luck. It's going to be really tough, but if you move on now you will be much happier a year down the line. Trust me, I've been there.
About 99% chances you're right and that won't work, but I don't see a reason not to give it a try. It's been painful for quite a while already, and no matter the decision I make these next few weeks/months will be tough. Plus should I decide to quit my job (which is, again, my only way to radically move on), I'll need to work there for at least a few more months anyway--so it's not like a couple of "friendship test weeks" are fundamentally going to change anything.
They'll probably be useless, but at least I won't have any regrets at all later. I'll know the only other option failed.
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I'd say I've had my fair share of obsessions with girls in my life. That said, I feel like people are recommending some rather drastic action. It's a crush on a girl, albeit a strong one. It's sounds like a huge over reaction to have to totally stop interacting with someone or worse, quit your job, just because someone couldn't handle a crush. You were friends before, you can be friends again. It can and will be awkward at first but I fail to see how two mature adults can't just be rational about this and coexist.
Sounds like the weak way out to totally remove her from your life and throw away a job you like in a crappy economy just to deal with some fleeting emotions. It will pass and you'll be stronger for it after wards. If the situation changes, perhaps re-evaluate things. Otherwise, give it a week or two, return to normal, and go about your life.
I really really don't mean to sound condescending or anything but I feel like I went through all manner of very long and painful obsessions back in high school and it all seems like a lifetime ago now. Looking back it all felt so foolish and my handling of the situations were incredibly immature.
It's a rough situation and it will most likely not be an easy transition regardless of what happens. Good luck to you man, I hope things work out for the best.
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France231 Posts
I can relate a lot to this, especially because i'm in love with a girl doesn't want me but I still have to see her every fucking day but sunday. In fact i was exactly in the same situation some months ago. When i first knew her she had a boy friend wich means it was already painful for a few months, exactly like you. I really know what you're going through atm and i also know how painful it is.
Here's what I did : I told her i couldn't see her as a friend and nothing else like I tried to do for a few months. I asked her to completly stop talking to me and tried to think of other girls.
It is deeply painful at first, and you burn to speak to her again, but i knew that if i did that I would never have lost my feelings towards her and that shit could have gone on for ever. And eventually you'll fall in love for someone else and forget her.
I think you should give it a try, as you said. That way, you'll have no regrets and it'll be easier to forget her in the end.
En tout cas j'suis vraiment désolé pour toi, parce que c'est une situation incroyablement difficile mentalement et qu'a très peu de chance de s'arranger à court et moyen termes, même si c'est tout le malheur que j'te souhaite.
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Sorry about your situation. It seems to me you have 2 good options.
1.) Get away from her and don't come back.
2.) Pursue a relationship with her anyways.
she doesn't have a kid right?
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
OK, my turn
On April 09 2009 22:32 PoP wrote:
Anyway, her decision sounded firm. And she's convinced that revealing it to each other will make things easier for the both of us. I told her I didn't believe it would work out that way, but she does seem pretty optimistic. I do know it will never work for me at least.
I know it will sound harsh but she wants everything here : she wants to keep her husband AND the lover. It's selfish but it's normal you don't see it that way, as you're definitely in love with her.
On April 09 2009 23:07 PoP wrote:
But I'm not going to insist or anything. I just told her the door was open in case she changed her mind. What I'm more interested in knowing is whether I should quit my job to make it easier for her (and me), or if staying around is a better option. She told me she wanted me to stay and keep doing like nothing had happened, just as friends. But I'm not really sure it can work.
It won't work. If one or both partners are in a "love" relationship (or state of mind), there can't be any friendship between them. The "just as friends" thing will never work ; that is, unless everything is sorted out in a healthy way.
People think of friendship as a way of keeping in touch with the loved one, so they can still hope and the dream is not broken. But at some point, the sad truth will eventually appear.
As I said above, of course she wants you to stay : that way she can have it all at no cost. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying she's a selfish b**ch or whatever : I don't know her. She's just acting that way to protect herself from being harmed and simply doesn't realize (or doesn't want to realize) she's just hurting you more in the process.
On April 09 2009 22:32 PoP wrote:
Also I can't help but think I've made mistakes.
Blah blah blah. You told her how you felt, you were not ambiguous and didn't harm her. That's the game, either you win or you lose, but you actually played it and didn't stay out : you did what you had to do. Don't blame yourself.
And keep in mind that hadn't you been honest with her, you'd still be in that awkward situation, not knowing what to do. I also believe you did well by not kissing her, it just shows how nice and honest you are ; some people will say you're stupid for that, ignore them as they're just the idiots here.
On April 10 2009 02:24 PoP wrote:
I see most of you advise me to forget about her, and that's more or less what I expected. That might very well be the best option in the long run... but I still want to try a different approach first, only because losing such a great friendship (that's what it is before anything else) would be a huge loss for both of us. Trying to remain friends may be impossible and/or painful, but this is what she wants (I asked her) and what I believe we should try and do first. It may sound naive, and it most likely will fail, but if we both try to focus our "emotional brain" elsewhere (her to her husband, myself to other women... if I can), there's a slight chance we both manage to eventually move on, while retaining that friendship.
Problem is it's a fool's game. It can't be an honest friendship because there are other feelings involved. Of course it's "what she wants", of course you want to try. You are both totally confused by what is happening and instead of stepping back and trying to get the big picture, you just want to go deeper and deeper to find out if there's an easy way out of this mess.
Anyway, I've been there and done that but won't try to "enlighten" you : you need to build your own experience. Eventually, when your pain threshold will hit its limit, you'll throw the towel by yourself.
I know it sounds pessimistic and I really would like it not to happen this way but I simply don't see how it could work.
On April 10 2009 02:24 PoP wrote:
In any case, I think I'm screwed for a while: 1. I know I probably won't end up with her now; 2. I haven't been able to feel anything for any other woman since I know her, simply because she's 100% my ideal woman (and I told her). Actually it's like my video games experience after I discovered Starcraft. I basically stopped playing any other game because they all suddenly didn't seem interesting anymore. And that's since 1998. Even when I stopped playing SC for more than a year, I still didn't find interest in any other video game, simply because I was unconsciously comparing them to it. And that's exactly what's happening and will keep happening for a long while between me and other women. I doubt there's any way out of it, and if there is it will take years. And that sucks. :/
Thing is, no video game can dump you. A video game doesn't have any feeling ; actually it's more like a doll. You want to play with it then do it. You can't do that with people. People react in ways you can't always foretell or even understand. What if she suddenly stops talking to you next week ? Or what if she resigns ? Or what if she moves to Thailand next month ?
StarCraft can't do that : it's always available for you to play with.
Also remember that she is your "100% ideal woman" because you think you know her but actually you don't. You have to live with someone to know her and know all of her nasty habits. It's normal she's awesome when you see her : she likes you a lot, it's a seduction game. When you see her, what do you do : try to look great and be funny or fart while poking your nose like you always do when playing SC ? It's a caricature, but do keep in mind you're both playing an act.
So. What to do, what to do. Of course, as the Observer (wooo, SC reference), it's prefectly clear : move on. And try to stay away from girls at work, especially the ones you work with every day. But for you, this is very different : you think we only have a superficial vision of what happened, we don't know the girl, etc... As I said above, you need to live it your way and build your own experience. Look : almost everyone in this thread has told you to let go, but you still want to believe there's a chance. It means you're not ready to listen to others' advice (the story is too fresh, obviously) and that's perfectly normal.
The only things I want you to keep in mind are the following questions : do you really want to preserve your friendship with her ? If so, do you think you're doing it the right way ? Also, are you acting on your own free will or are you biased in any way because of her ? And where are you getting at ? What are you trying to accomplish ?
These are simple questions you should ask yourself at all times ; I am not trying in any way to influence your judgment.
Good luck with all this, pal. I sincerely hope it works out for you
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, it happened to me once. She cheated on her BF for me for a week before she decided it was not worth it and broke up with me. I spent one month trying to stay friend with her until I realized I was being a fool and gave up. No need to say I thought she was "the one" back then ; today I know she wasn't and I'm glad I went away.
I know it's not even close to what you are going through these days, it's just to tell you I think it happens to all of us one day or the other.
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Unfortunately, Stendhal, Flaubert, and the entire French literary canon is unread these days by the Anglophone community, so fishing for advice on this forum will tend to yield rather English results when it comes to romance.
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You'll get over it soon, I had a similar situation once, try talking to others, you know, meet new people (GIRLS of course) to get rid of your "mutual" understanding. Eventually, you both will be friends, and you both will be happy! Cheers! Gl HF
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
- this is how people get killed lol..
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Her being married is kind of a constraint that I wouldn't violate for a number of reasons. [I will not go into my personal views so that this post can't be used as possible evidence against me in the future.]
One thing you could do to fundamentally change the situation is to come clean with the husband. Then he can either find his wife another job, or allow you two to be friends with accurate knowledge of the situation.
I'm not saying that is a wise decision, however it is an option.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
On April 10 2009 12:41 fight_or_flight wrote:
One thing you could do to fundamentally change the situation is to come clean with the husband.
a potential Darwin award right there
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United States22883 Posts
On April 10 2009 03:52 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2009 03:23 inReacH wrote:
Quit your job if you have to.. create distance and when you feel comfortable try to be her friend/stay in contact until her marriage falls apart..
DONT be the reason it falls apart though.
You have like 50% odds that it won't go the distance and considering she is having strong feelings for other people already that's at least another 5%..
Again don't actively be the reason it fails though... just wait it out. This is awful advice. You do not want to "wait out" a marriage! You could spend 10, 15, 20 years sitting around, maintaining your valued "friendship" with this woman, and wishing you were with her. That would be a waste of your affections and your life. I know this is hard PoP, but you need to move on. Show nested quote +On April 10 2009 02:24 PoP wrote:
I see most of you advise me to forget about her, and that's more or less what I expected. That might very well be the best option in the long run... but I still want to try a different approach first, only because losing such a great friendship (that's what it is before anything else) would be a huge loss for both of us. Trying to remain friends may be impossible and/or painful, but this is what she wants (I asked her) and what I believe we should try and do first. It may sound naive, and it most likely will fail, but if we both try to focus our "emotional brain" elsewhere (her to her husband, myself to other women... if I can), there's a slight chance we both manage to eventually move on, while retaining that friendship. There's no way a friendship will work - and you know it. When a guy says "losing a huge friendship would be a loss for both of us", what he really means is "I'm totally in love with this girl, and I'm going to keep pursuing her under the pretense of preserving our friendship". This woman might genuinely value your friendship, but you need to put yourself first - if maintaining that friendship is going to drive you nuts and prevent you from getting over her (it is), then you shouldn't. This woman has made her position really, really clear - she's married, in love with her husband, and not interested in a romantic relationship with you. Now you have to do whatever it takes to accept that as fact and get on with your life. That probably means abandoning the idea of a friendship. From the beginning you never wanted this woman as just a friend...and you definitely won't be able to shake those desires now. Good luck. It's going to be really tough, but if you move on now you will be much happier a year down the line. Trust me, I've been there.
:/
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PoP any progress? I am very curious, wish you all the best man
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Yep a lot of us have experienced similar conceptual situations, including myself. Not as many have experienced your specific situation though (particularly in our age group). I would think having a strong crush or being in love with a married woman is different to having a strong crush or being in love with a girl who (only) has a boyfriend.
Personally, my situation was the latter, and it was painful enough already. It did not help that she was in my study group for finals at medical school. One must truly dig deep emotionally in those situations. I discovered that pain is indeed for the weak. I passed my finals first go by the way haha.
I note that the woman mentioned in the original post is 6 years older. That is interesting indeed. Age shouldn't make a jot of difference when it comes to love...but unforunately it often does.
Anyway, good luck and it would be nice to hear some updates if you'd care to share. From my experience, it takes much longer than a year for those feelings to truly go away. Fearfully, often they may never go away. It helps when you meet another girl though!
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On April 09 2009 22:47 JMave wrote:
Not to be offensive but..
Hey dude, she's married. Leave her alone.
what this guy said.
Don't be a dick dude.
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walk up to her, whip it out and say "well, what are we going to do about this?" but make sure you avoid eye contact and kinda murmur, they prefer it like this because its less threatening, also try to make your voice break half way through the sentence. dont forget to thrust hips as you do it too, this is key.
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On April 09 2009 22:47 JMave wrote:
Not to be offensive but..
Hey dude, she's married. Leave her alone.
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Screw (in a nice way of course) you all saying to get off from her because she's married. And as long as they don't have a baby it's not such a big deal.
Can't you see from what he wrote that she's ~in love~ with him?
Pop, just forget about that she's married, the rate of divorces these days is high as hell anyway and it's a big probability that she will divorce with him no matter you sticking your tail.
She's now in the period of having an inner fight. Just be close to her, let her feel your loving warmth. And next time kiss her.
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Paragraphers ..
If you want whats best for her, let her go.
And it didn't take even 1/121 the time it took for others to say that.
And if you're really going to play it out drama-like, and you don't mind a couple bruises, tell her husband.
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Calgary25977 Posts
Fuck that. Do not do what's best for her, do what's best for you. Seriously. Don't try to be a hero.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 10 2009 08:09 Taiche wrote:Thing is, no video game can dump you. A video game doesn't have any feeling ; actually it's more like a doll. You want to play with it then do it. You can't do that with people. People react in ways you can't always foretell or even understand. What if she suddenly stops talking to you next week ? Or what if she resigns ? Or what if she moves to Thailand next month ? StarCraft can't do that : it's always available for you to play with. Also remember that she is your "100% ideal woman" because you think you know her but actually you don't. You have to live with someone to know her and know all of her nasty habits. It's normal she's awesome when you see her : she likes you a lot, it's a seduction game. When you see her, what do you do : try to look great and be funny or fart while poking your nose like you always do when playing SC ? It's a caricature, but do keep in mind you're both playing an act.
There you have it, folks. Starcraft > Women.
On a more serious note...
On April 10 2009 03:52 JWD wrote:
There's no way a friendship will work - and you know it. When a guy says "losing a huge friendship would be a loss for both of us", what he really means is "I'm totally in love with this girl, and I'm going to keep pursuing her under the pretense of preserving our friendship". This woman might genuinely value your friendship, but you need to put yourself first - if maintaining that friendship is going to drive you nuts and prevent you from getting over her (it is), then you shouldn't.
This is, IMO, the most intelligent thing that has been said in this blog.
To those who keep saying "wtf she's married, etc." read the thread more carefully.
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On April 28 2009 01:03 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2009 08:09 Taiche wrote:Thing is, no video game can dump you. A video game doesn't have any feeling ; actually it's more like a doll. You want to play with it then do it. You can't do that with people. People react in ways you can't always foretell or even understand. What if she suddenly stops talking to you next week ? Or what if she resigns ? Or what if she moves to Thailand next month ? StarCraft can't do that : it's always available for you to play with. Also remember that she is your "100% ideal woman" because you think you know her but actually you don't. You have to live with someone to know her and know all of her nasty habits. It's normal she's awesome when you see her : she likes you a lot, it's a seduction game. When you see her, what do you do : try to look great and be funny or fart while poking your nose like you always do when playing SC ? It's a caricature, but do keep in mind you're both playing an act. There you have it, folks. Starcraft > Women. On a more serious note... Show nested quote +On April 10 2009 03:52 JWD wrote:
There's no way a friendship will work - and you know it. When a guy says "losing a huge friendship would be a loss for both of us", what he really means is "I'm totally in love with this girl, and I'm going to keep pursuing her under the pretense of preserving our friendship". This woman might genuinely value your friendship, but you need to put yourself first - if maintaining that friendship is going to drive you nuts and prevent you from getting over her (it is), then you shouldn't.
This is, IMO, the most intelligent thing that has been said in this blog. To those who keep saying "wtf she's married, etc." read the thread more carefully.
But won't you burn in hell if you commit adultery? Even thinking adulterous thoughts is sinful by the way. Haha!
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EPT
