On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote:one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
And you imply that those statements could not possibly mean something like: I don't date white women cause I don't find their hair, their body structure, their lips, cheeks, noses, eyes, tits and asses attractive?
That's like saying I don't have sex with males cause they're males. From what you say I might think you're discriminating half the world's population based on sex and you're a sexist. That's just ridiculous... There are just things you find attractive and things you don't. It's not discrimination, it's just the way it is.
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
No it isn't
Not 'dating' a particular race is by no means racist, however saying that you wouldn't like to become friends with any particular race is. For example (well I'm engaged so this is a bad example lol) I don't date black women, I just don't want too, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider them friends of mine, much the same reason that I don't date obese people. I've nothing against them and sure I am friends with people who are, I just would rather not date someone who is.
So if I were to follow your school of thought. If you were to say, "I'd never have sex with a man, but I'm not homophobic." You yourself would be a hyprocrite?
This is what I very much dislike about the Political Correctness of today's outspoken nature. You can't have individuality anymore without someone calling you a racist/cross-burner/etc based on silly things like people you prefer to date and not the things that matter like "I respect them as people."
The only reason racism is still around today is the people like you that harp on it in this way. I'm still curious as to why most people don't just look at skin color another variable in today's modern world. I enjoy people of all races, nationalities, sexual oreintation and physcial builds, but because I'd never date a black woman, a gay man, or an obese woman I'm racist/homophobic/insensitive? There is a line between personal preference and any of those. I believe you've found it (and crossed it).
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
no you don't and i didn't say that, but if you sated you don't get attracted to black women, I.E because they're black, not only is that a racist statement you are being racist.
On March 26 2009 17:18 Lucktar wrote: To Grobyc's point, I honestly didn't even notice that one was referring to black people, and one to caucasians, whiteys, whatever, until I read your post. I think the discrepancy is due to the relationship rather than anybody's innate fear of appearing racist by not liking black people.
Yes I can see how the relationship has an effect as well, but then that basically is saying this it is okay to not want to date a black person, but not okay to not enjoy making friends with them. Now while some people say that is what is being agreed here, most people say it is being shallow and rude(even discriminatory in a way) to judge whether or not you would date someone based on their looks. So it isn't racist to not want to date a black person, but then you are being shallow. It's like either way you have people hating you for that fact.
When it comes to relationships, how is being racist(from what some people seem to think that's what the situation here is) that much worse than being shallow?
Both are rude, both are discriminatory IMO, but hell, if you don't go around saying it, and that is your own personal judgment, I don't see a major problem with it. It's more of a preference(this is where it leads back to preference, mentioned in the OP), than offending people. If they are offended by things like that, then they need to grow up, and realize that everywhere you go, walking down the street, sitting in a class at school, people look at you and think to themselves "He has ugly hair, he is too short, he is Asian for me, etc". People don't usually have a problem with that, so how is this preference racist in a large enough way where it will offend someone?
Of course if you go around telling people that you don't want to date someone because of their colour they might take offense to it, but not wanting to date someone or be friends with someone because of their skin, and keeping it to yourself is considered more preference IMO then racism.
So I guess it all depends on what you consider racism.
none of them are racist wtf. if you don't like making friends with black people doesn't mean you don't like them. you just don't want to be friends with them. what's wrong with that? and who would never wana make friends with a black person anyway? theyre the most interesting people on the planet. FLAVOR FLAAAAAAAVV
comparing the two questions is like comparing diamonds to nickels. they're both stones but it's ok to discriminate against diamonds since they're loved by everybody to begin with, that's why people voted no. whereas nickels (black girls) are undervalued/stereotyped against
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
[/QUOTE]
you don't decide, our society does, and our society says black girls are ugly maybe you should try to fix this?
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
you don't decide, our society does, and our society says black girls are ugly
wtf... Now that is racist.
You are just agreeing with society, not even basing it on your own thoughts. If you don't find black girls attractive that isn't racist, but not dating one because everyone else says they are ugly regardless of your own opinion is just conforming and being racist.
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
no you don't and i didn't say that, but if you sated you don't get attracted to black women, I.E because they're black, not only is that a racist statement you are being a racist.
this is funny if I say I don't get attracted to black women There is no other reasoning but because they are black. This is simple logic. I only told one property(is this the right word? -_-) of them, so that must be it.
It's like I don't get attracted to woman who are higher than me. I only said one thing about them, they are highet than me, so that must be the reason I wouldn't date them.
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
you don't decide, our society does, and our society says black girls are ugly maybe you should try to fix this?
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
No it isn't
Not 'dating' a particular race is by no means racist, however saying that you wouldn't like to become friends with any particular race is. For example (well I'm engaged so this is a bad example lol) I don't date black women, I just don't want too, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider them friends of mine, much the same reason that I don't date obese people. I've nothing against them and sure I am friends with people who are, I just would rather not date someone who is.
So if I were to follow your school of thought. If you were to say, "I'd never have sex with a man, but I'm not homophobic." You yourself would be a hyprocrite?
This is what I very much dislike about the Political Correctness of today's outspoken nature. You can't have individuality anymore without someone calling you a racist/cross-burner/etc based on silly things like people you prefer to date and not the things that matter like "I respect them as people."
The only reason racism is still around today is the people like you that harp on it in this way. I'm still curious as to why most people don't just look at skin color another variable in today's modern world. I enjoy people of all races, nationalities, sexual oreintation and physcial builds, but because I'd never date a black woman, a gay man, or an obese woman I'm racist/homophobic/insensitive? There is a line between personal preference and any of those. I believe you've found it (and crossed it).
*sigh*. alright i will try and explain this in the most direct way possible.
First, I adopt the term racist as is commonly used and reffed to in my society, and the meaning it holds in said society, is: a discrimination based on race.
Second, if you won't date a black person because they are black, buddy you are discriminating based on race, and thus being racist
Third, homophobia is an illogical aversion to homosexuals, if gay people freak you out you are homophobic, if you are straight, and thus do not date gay people you are not.
Fourth, racism is still around not because of people like me, but because of ignorance.
A lot of people have discriminatory preferences, it is until People like YOU who are ignorant and insecure who can't see that as a simple "variable in today's modern world" and have to see it as derogatory, that this will exist.
I for example would not date the obese, well not only because they're obese but also because of a few things it implies, but never the less, i am Discriminating against them, rather severely in fact. and if that makes me insensitive in your view then, fine I'm insensitive. I can live with on aspect of my out look on other people being insensitive.
Wow some guys here've gotten some concepts like racism wrong.
If a girls says "I like black men cause their skin color makes me sooo horny!" she is racist, isn't she? Cause she doesn't find the skin color of the Caucasian men attractive, right. That's racist, I guess... If you actually think this way, you've got some issues.
If you don't like the outlook of the black people or caucasian or asian you're not a racist! If you think caucasian peope are smarter/better human beings than asian people and your opinion is not based on scientific research but is based on the skin color of the two respective races then you're a racist! Can't you guys get that?!? It seems obvious to me.
On March 26 2009 17:27 Etherone wrote: yes. Both are racist.
one says i don't date white girls because they are white... racist and the other said i don't make black friends because they're black... racist
you are generalizing a group of people by their "race" .
Edit: also the following statement is racist: i would not have sex with a(n) ( insert race) (insert gender). i have heard this phrase followed by : but i am not racist countless times, and it's laughable.
they are being racist . they might not be a cross burning racist, they might even think the other race deserves equal rights, but because of 'X" individual's race they wouldn't involve yourself with them, that is racist.
if I don't get attracted to black women, am I racist?
man, this is ridiculous
you don't decide who you get attracted to
no you don't and i didn't say that, but if you sated you don't get attracted to black women, I.E because they're black, not only is that a racist statement you are being a racist.
this is funny if I say I don't get attracted to black women There is no other reasoning but because they are black. This is simple logic. I only told one property(is this the right word? -_-) of them, so that must be it.
It's like I don't get attracted to woman who are higher than me. I only said one thing about them, they are highet than me, so that must be the reason I wouldn't date them.
Your post was somewhat illogical for me
no it is entirely logical, if you perceive it as you did, normally when someone says "i don't date black women." they only stated one relevant describing term, and one would assume that is the quality that determines they are not attracted to, of course it depends on the person you are talking to the conversation, etc, but in the context of a thread called "implications of racism" i am assuming this is the case.
On March 26 2009 18:12 hymn wrote: Wow some guys here've gotten some concepts like racism wrong.
If a girls says "I like black men cause their skin color makes me sooo horny!" she is racist, isn't she? Cause she doesn't find the skin color of the Caucasian men attractive, right. That's racist, I guess... If you actually think this way, you've got some issues.
If you don't like the outlook of the black people or caucasian or asian you're not a racist! If you think caucasian peope are smarter/better human beings than asian people and your opinion is not based on scientific research but is based on the skin color of the two respective races then you're a racist! Can't you guys get that?!? It seems obvious to me.
you are right in the sense that, racism is the belief that one race is inferior to another. but as I pointed out in a previous post, racism is commonly referred to as the discrimination based on race, and that is base of the paradigm carried by many so for the sake of simplicity that is the one i will use.
and in that outlook, the girl is racism not because she doesn't like the skin color of Caucasian males, but simply because she finds black men's skin color horny, it is not negative in any way, it simply is a discrimination based on race, seeing as not all deemed "black" people have the same skin tone and thus in the context of the common paradigm that racism = discrimination by race, it is racist.
Edit: also may i say Hymn that since you are Bulgarian and have no idea what common paradigm i am talking about, since it is not common to you, let me say that you are 100% correct, if you are in no way discerning that one race is inferior to another because of race you are not being racist.
One can always go into to the psychological part saying the, " aah but the reason he doesn't date white women is because he thinks they are inferior" but that is just babble, and can only be known by the individual and those who know him well enough.
On March 26 2009 18:23 TheTyranid wrote: Etherone, do you like dating black girls?
yes i have dated 2, and one was one of, if not, the most interesting and intelligent individuals i have ever met.
you can't really compare dating to friendship, since dating generally implies a sexual attraction to the person, and you might not find the physical characteristics of one race so attractive, while friendship is mostly personality based, which I don't believe is determined by skin color.
Example: I generally don't find 95% of black women attractive, hence I would say I would not date a black girl for the most part, yet I have black friends and no problem with black people.
Basic debate methodology, define the terms first. Can't settle when you don't have common definitions.
Oxford English Dictionary: Definitions: Racism, n.: + Show Spoiler +
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50195905?query_type=word&queryword=racist&first=1&max_to_show=10&single=1&sort_type=alpha The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Hence: prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those felt to be a threat to one's cultural or racial integrity or economic well-being; the expression of such prejudice in words or actions. Also occas. in extended use, with reference to people of other nationalities. Cf.
A. n. An advocate or supporter of racism; a person whose words or actions display racial prejudice or discrimination. Also in extended use: a person who is prejudiced against people of other nationalities. Cf. B) adj. Of, relating to, or characterized by racism
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50242663?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=superior&first=1&max_to_show=10 A. adj. 1. Higher in local position; situated above or further up than something else; upper; {dag}belonging to the upper regions, heavenly, celestial (obs.). B. n. 4. A person, or (less commonly) a thing, of higher quality or value than another; one that excels another in some respect. (Commonly with genitive pronoun or of.)
DISCLAIMER: Opinion below is assuming that you don't date x race because you think they arn't as attractive as y race. In less PC words, you think the other race is fugly, so you won't touch em. That said, I personally think I'm racist regarding who I want to date. It's wrong, but i currently cant/wont change it. + Show Spoiler +
For the sake of being Politically Correct: Ifstuffisaidoffendedyouthenplzimsorryandplzdontflame/troll/derailthetthreadintowhoisflamingracistthread irecognizethisisavolitileissuesoifyouareoffendediwouldappreciateitifyoucouldCHILLOUTforthisopenandhonestdebate
Regarding being a racist: I think both the girlfriend question and the friend question is racist. You may not outwardly claim to be "an advocate or supporter of racism," but i think expressing your preference of romantic partners is a display of racial prejudice/discrimination.
Regarding racism: - I think thinking white girls are less attractive than brazilian girls is a racist belief. Because you are making a blanket statement that ALL (or a nicer way to say it: "in general") members of that race "possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race" In this example, beauty would be a characteristic/quality. So i think that makes you a little racist. - But a key 2nd part of the definition is that those qualities also "distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." Which brings us to next point, is beauty/attractiveness a superior quality?
Regarding Superiority: - Going with attractiveness here, I think thats often used and referred to as linear. You are either more or less attractive, some people might claim you can be "alternatively attractive," but i think secretly you DO actually mean less/more, since this is a subjective quality. - If Beauty is linear, and you can gage it from a scale of 1 to 10, then there is superiority/inferiority.In other words, it is a quality or value that one person can have over another.
Thoughts: I'd argue that even if you don't state you're reasons for why you wouldn't date <insert race> girls, the reasoning behind it is, more often than not, racist. (Just because you dont say it, doesn't mean you are not, simply because your actions will disagree with your words. And Actions speak louder.) Be it because they are nicer, hotter, cuter, less crazy, more crazy, more energy, less energy, smell better, eat better tasting food, ect. Only exception i can come up on the fly is due to cultural differences/incompatability, because subjectively i find it a lot harder to gage a culture's superiority to another.
I think the inconsistency between the two polls result because we've battled racism all the way past the economical, past the political, past the socially acceptable norms, and the front has finally retreated and bunkered up into the familial realm. And we all know that the familial is just the natural expo of the main personal/emotional realm. And now closet racists are bringing out the seige tanks of "YOU CANT CRITICIZE MY PERSONAL BELIEFS WTF >=(!!" and set up 5019283 turrets of "EACH PERSON HAS HIS/HER OWN OPINION OKAY?" Its much easier to say "HES/SHES a racist" than "YOU are a racist."
I'd step out in front of all the firebats and hypothesize that people who voted in both polls with inconsistent answers do so because they don't want to break social norms but are secretly terran turtles inside.
Just to combat reverse and closet racism, i think its okay to declare that you're just a little bit racist. I mean, its totally fine to play terrran. And my preference for zerg over terrans is totally racist, its only natural/evolutional that you prefer the in-group over the out-group. I like burrowing lurkers over seiging, even though they are kind of the same thing.
I'd leave this with some wise words from Avenue Q:
No, in my example the girl's choice is not based on skin color. I believe it's based on personal preference. Cause the way I see it the situation is comparable to a choice where you pick between Mercedes S-classe and BMW 7 series. They are bot comparable and whichever you pick you can be deemed as a discriminator against the other car company, implied by your explanation of racism and simplification and whatnot. Personal preference IS NOT racism. Racism is the believe that a race is superior to another race based on not-scientifically proven facts. If a girl chooses to fuck a black man instead of a white man cause she LIKES the black dude more, you and your beliefs call it racism, I call it personal preference. I am ok with your opinion and I told you why I think it is wrong. You came and said "Yeah racism is what you said it is but this thing you said later is racist too!". Well, it's just not racist and you're contradicting yourself by first agreeing to my explanation of racism and then adding stuff to it. Stuff which I don't believe is true and I will never do. And I won't do because it's interfering with what I call common sense and human relations - a girl having sex with black people because she likes the way they look and not because she thinks white men are inferior but just that they are not her type is what I call common sense. If you fuck asian girls or if you're a homosexual because you enjoy it this way and not because you hate Causasian women or women in general for no logical reason, you won't be considered a racist or a sexist.
Whether you call that racism/sexism or not does not make any difference to me. You just need to read more info and think about it and you'll see it's all common sense. I am not saying it's politically correct, I'm just explaining why I don't think is racist based on a general understanding of racism.
Not dating a girl of a specific race may not have any correlation to how attractive you find the girl's race. There may be issues of cultural differences and conflicts.
Discrimination perhaps is just not a perfect word to describe what we really care about when we say a person or action is racist. There's nothing inherently wrong with discrimination, certainly. One could be discriminatory towards bad starcraft players in deciding who gets onto a korean proteam for example, and i don't have to explain why that's perfectly reasonable. The word 'racism' has developed such a strong negative connotation though that i'm not sure a definition not embodying something inherently bad is very practical. Such a definition just leads to certain discussions reaching the point when someone has to say "Well, i suppose technically that is racist. But it's the kind of racism that's ok, so your using it as a sort of accusation is still unfounded." It might be more practical if racism meant something like 'holding unfair prejudice towards a particular race.'
In any case, i definitely get the impression that the op was referring to the bad kind of racism. And if they were talking about the more general kind, the answer would be absolutely obvious and this discussion would have no point whatsoever.
EPT
