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Blogs > NeverGG
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NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
January 27 2009 05:56 GMT
#1
Disclaimer: Please could people keep this to genuine suggestions/advice rather than flaming or one-liners. I'd love to hear from some of the many people here with photography experience and those of you who follow the Korean scene on a player/team basis.

+ + +

My Kit:

In about 2-3 months I'll be swapping over to the esports photographers' make of choice (Canon.) used by fomos.co.kr/Fifo and the other reporters who frequent Proleague and other regular esporting events.

I'm planning to move to an EOS 5D MK2 (one level up from the photos you most often see on Fomos - I checked out the photographer responsible for them and saw what he's using currently.) with the regular 70-200mm lens (and after seeing Mr.Park's amazing work at Fifo I'm also investing in a fish eye lens for variety and possibly a lensbaby with some filters later on in the year.)

Currently as some people know I'm stuck with a Nikon D40X (which is a rubbish body for the lighting set ups of indoor events especially at LOOX.) and a Sigma EX 70-200mm lens (plus the standard kit lens which is gathering dust.)

I'm hoping to reduce the amount of photoshopping I have to do (unless it's for banners which I'll leave to Pachi and the other talented members of the TL graphics team.)

Reasons for Asking now:

Aside from the fact that I like to plan ahead for things I have been genuinely a bit down-hearted over the way people used to rate my blogs (before I moved - and it was a factor in moving to BW forum.)

It is very easy to say 'suck it up' or 'don't let it bother you.' However, as photographing esports is one of only a couple of reasons I have struggled to stay in Korea despite lack of money/illness etc it means a lot to me when people tell me they don't like my work. I'm also curious to know how to improve and provide the best coverage possible (I don't enjoy not being able to contribute something to TL.)

I'm endlessly grateful to those who do comment and also people who've given me advice in the past regarding techniques/photoshopping/the photos themselves. It helps bolster my lack of confidence in my work and give me another reason to go to PL after a long day of teaching etc.

I just want to figure out what I can do to improve/evolve my personal style (which seems to be weird angles and use of hands recently) - I'm not able to commentate or give technical analysis of games etc - I don't play nearly enough to do that and I acknowledge the limits of my skills in terms of anything aside from helping people see a different view of the live events/giving other non-game information.

So, basically:

Questions:


~ What would you like to see more of/less of?

~ Who do you want to see photographed? (I have a list.)

~ Is there anything from Fomos/Fifo's work that you'd like me to try?

~ Any ideas for extra kit to make my work more varied?

(Thank you in advance to anyone who answers and I hope to upgrade my camera soon now I have a full time job and a lot more stability.)

****
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
ph7
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States72 Posts
January 27 2009 06:03 GMT
#2
5/5. Just because you are sticking with what you love to do.
Personally though, maybe some more of like Jaedong? just Zerg players in general. And maybe take some pictures of the crowds if possible?
Anyways Gl, dont let anybody get you down.
x89titan
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Philippines1130 Posts
January 27 2009 06:11 GMT
#3
id like more of savior plz
Heaven came down and glory filled my soul, when at the cross the Savior made me whole
shavingcream66
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1219 Posts
January 27 2009 06:19 GMT
#4
I'd like to see more of the crowd's expressions during the games. I'm amazed that you've turned out such stunning pictures with only a Nikon D40x. You could also try doing larger broad shots of the sea of people (i'm pretty sure your kit lens 18-55mm? should probably cover that range perfectly). As for less photoshopping, you could use filters like you mentioned. Also, I don't know where photographers are allowed to sit but investing in a fixed lens might be beneficial for low light situations.

Hopefully you'll find something there that helps. I'm only an amateur DSLR photographer myself. cheers. Haha..if you're interested
http://shavingcream66.deviantart.com/gallery/
although my shots are nothing compared to yours. Keep up the good work.
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
January 27 2009 06:39 GMT
#5
I would like to see more of the game centers and the locations where these events are held. The ticketing booth (if there is one), the lines before the game starts, the concession stands, the players while they enter, and the more famous players (Boxer, Flash, Savior, Jaedong, Bisu, etc.)
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-27 06:59:46
January 27 2009 06:58 GMT
#6
I don't know what's up with the haters, but I already feel that what you're doing right now is wonderful. Just continue taking pictures of well-liked/popular players as well as less popular ones. For example, some pictures of (T)BaBy would be great.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
January 27 2009 07:03 GMT
#7
So do you work for Fomos?


Edit: Nvm, you teach... english I'm guessing? From looking at most of your pictures, I haven't seen any negative comments. Anyway, keep up the hard work, it's really nice of you to do this for the community

Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
January 27 2009 07:12 GMT
#8
yeah do some more of JD/savior/etc even if u've done it before
ty for ur work
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-27 07:26:00
January 27 2009 07:13 GMT
#9
OK, this is probably going to be a long post; I've posted comments in some of your threads but mostly just about what I like. First thing, great job with the pictures; please keep entertaining us with the great shots, the candids are especially enjoyable. One thing I would try to do is get a nice sharp, low f-stop (preferably, especially with the low lighting conditions) lens if you can afford it. Be glad you don't have to shoot much action in those lighting conditions too See how far you can push down the shutter speed and avoid getting blur (maybe try a long exposer of a progamers hands in the booth O.o) maybe use a monopod/tripod if you can. I'm sure you know most of this stuff but you asked for comments

I noticed the fomos pictures have the exif data included if you're interested in what they're shooting at (though I'm sure you probably already know or can easily ask); here's one for reference:
+ Show Spoiler [fomos reference pic] +
[image loading]
EOS 30D
f/2.8
1/50 sec
ISO-800
105mm focal length

I took a quick glimpse through your blog and some recent posts and picked out pictures I think could use some improvement (this is my opinion, and remember rules are made to be broken ) and also some pictures I enjoyed; I'm putting them all in a spoiler to avoid cluttering up this thread.

+ Show Spoiler [pics] +

I like this picture, the angle makes it interesting but its not overdone; however, the lights at the top really distract your attention away from the subject.
[image loading]


Have you tried doing some filters on the backgrounds especially to remove noticable noise? Here's a quick example I did with a savior picture. I only applied the filter to the background and left savior untouched (the blurring is a lot less noticeable when applied to the background but can help get rid of that graininess).
Before
[image loading]


After
[image loading]


I enjoy the occasional black and white photo but remember (not just with b&w) what your metering mode is set to and be sure to account for something like the bright white coats in this picture that are going to throw of the exposure on the subject's faces.
[image loading]


I like these edited images, I've done similar stuff myself; keep it up
[image loading]

[image loading]


I've seen this in a couple pictures, generally you want space on the side of a picture that the subject is looking, the negative space on the left of this picture just looks a little akward, your eye wants to follow the subjects eyes.
[image loading]


I like this picture, again the angle adds a little uniqueness and it has a nice uncluttered background.
[image loading]


While having objects in the foreground can add to the picture in cases like this they often distract you from the main focus of the picture, especially when the foreground is very out of focus. If the foreground wasn't blocking his face I think it would be a better shot (of course you can't always control that)
[image loading]


Same thing here, the foreground blurred is a little distracting.
[image loading]


Nice picture here but the cord in front of the flower is distracting and it would be a better shot, in my opinion, if it was off to the side.
[image loading]


Too much negative space on the left as I previously mentioned.
[image loading]


Same
[image loading]

[image loading]


Exposure on the face again
[image loading]


Nice picture again but I think this would have been better tilted the other way (maybe not)
[image loading]


Could use a little more open space on the top left where he is looking
[image loading]


I like these shots, but try focusing on someone in the middle occasionaly
[image loading]


This is a nice shot but I think it would be better if the booth the camera was focusing on was mostly in focus (although I don't think that was possible with the lighting conditions you work in)
[image loading]


While focusing on something in the foreground can make a neat effect in this picture I think its too distracting with the player taking up most of the frame.
[image loading]


Foreground is distracting again
[image loading]



Please keep up the good work, I always enjoy seeing your pictures. I hope you find this advice helpful and I can't wait to see the improvements with the new body & lens
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-27 07:23:26
January 27 2009 07:21 GMT
#10
Man im pretty sure 99% of TL loves your work, makes everything more terrenal to us and gives us something unique, dont let mindless stupids ruin your spirit.

~ What would you like to see more of/less of?
More casual and group photos.

~ Who do you want to see photographed? (I have a list.)
Generally almost anyplayer/coach i miss january pics!

~ Is there anything from Fomos/Fifo's work that you'd like me to try?
Not exactly.

~ Any ideas for extra kit to make my work more varied?
Something different for each shoot/event i mean an special object like a hat or random stuff to ask people to wear it could be fun and varied.

Good luck and nevergg your work man!
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
January 27 2009 07:22 GMT
#11
I like your work. I would also like seeing more pics of the venue itself, the setting where these events actually take place; something that can capture the mood and atmosphere of the venue.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Not_Computer
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada2277 Posts
January 27 2009 07:30 GMT
#12
I really like your work too. Like probably a lot of the community, I'm not qualified to critique your photos. However, Abydos1's post seemed to bring up some good points that I wouldn't notice without him pointing it out, but after he pointed them out, they seem very noticeable.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

O_O
"Jaedong hyung better be ready. I'm going to order the most expensive dinner in Korea."
shavingcream66
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1219 Posts
January 27 2009 08:47 GMT
#13
yeah once you upgrade to a canon, I know for a fact that canon has a really popular lens with a fstop of 1.2 which is pretty sick. it's pretty expensive though..i think it was either 30 or 50mm fixed
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
January 27 2009 11:39 GMT
#14
To be honest, I don't recognize myself in any of the complaint you say you got. From what I've seen of your work everything looks fine. You know, I'm not an expert on photography or anything but all the pics I've seen by you look really good.

As for what-should-you-take-pictures-of. I think the main thing in an insense sport like StarCraft when taking photo's during matches is to capture emotions. I mean, the camera man who got Bisu going : o in his shot is a hero to TL. I reckon this, taking that photo just at the right time, is insanely difficult, but I do believe it's something sports-photographers should try for. Mind, this is general advise. I'm not saying it is completely lacking from your work or anything since I do remember how you managed to get, like , Falsh pulling faces, on cam n_n Bur yer, I guess those are the best pics.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
January 27 2009 11:43 GMT
#15
More of Flash, Bisu, and Stork please!
Sprite
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1015 Posts
January 27 2009 11:57 GMT
#16
NeverGG i like all your pictures your very talented!
As for who you should get more of, Firebathero of course!
Firebathero is still the best!
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
January 27 2009 12:37 GMT
#17
@ Abydos1 - thank you so much - I'm always rushing too much at events so I really do need to heed your advice and think about composition more. I'm hoping once I upgrade to the EOS5D I won't have to be so conscious of lighting problems and can focus more upon these issues.

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone - I'm taking it all on board and I promise to up my game in future shoots.
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8090 Posts
January 27 2009 14:55 GMT
#18
On January 27 2009 14:56 NeverGG wrote:
I'm endlessly grateful to those who do comment, those who serve e-pie and also people who've given me advice in the past regarding techniques/photoshopping/the photos themselves. It helps bolster my lack of confidence in my work and give me another reason to go to PL after a long day of teaching etc.

Fixed never :D
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
garista
Profile Joined January 2003
Germany165 Posts
January 27 2009 17:19 GMT
#19
I'd be interested in photos capturing the atmosphere / event as a whole.

For example:
- the location (maybe an interesting detail like some curious decoration or fans scribbling signs)
- people fiddling with cables/computers
- the players arriving in their vans
- boothgirls changing clothes doing whatever
- the location after the event (signs laying on the floor etc.)

Those could add some flavor to the normal photos.

nofAcedAgent
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States952 Posts
January 27 2009 19:52 GMT
#20
I just wanted you to know Ive always enjoyed your photos, keep up the great work - the only place to go is up
gEzUS
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada371 Posts
January 27 2009 21:37 GMT
#21
5Dmk II is a great camera and has low noise from iso50 to 6400 (id say) but the auto focus is somewhat slow and searches in low light (same as 5d, and 30d, 40d, 50d)

as for the lens i highly recommend the 70-200 2.8 IS (canon has 4,70-200s)

i have 1 question why change from nikon to canon? you have a 70-200 2.8 have to buy another lens? the d300 is capable, d700 more than capable and d3 probably overkill

Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
January 27 2009 22:04 GMT
#22
Take more photos of new pros, not just top pros and put them bad-ass looking face or set.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
February 22 2009 05:48 GMT
#23
More photos of Bunkie please <3

A Bunkie & KTF mascot shoot would be awesome.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
February 22 2009 09:12 GMT
#24
more photos of hot booth girls, less photos of the players please.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-22 09:27:16
February 22 2009 09:26 GMT
#25
On February 22 2009 18:12 Luddite wrote:
more photos of hot booth girls, less photos of the players please.


As if I've not heard this before - Just to recap - there are NO booth girls to photograph at present because I don't do OSL and there's no Kart Rider league to get race queen photos. So please stop asking - I take those shots when I can, but it's really annoying to have people asking for them over and over again. I'm here to photograph the events and the players - not just the girls (who are rarely even a part of the events anyway unless you count MSL selection nights or OSL.)
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
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