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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On January 17 2009 07:50 Klockan3 wrote: Is that curve for real? Do you forget that much? Yeah; only 20% will go to your permanent memory; the rest is all deleted. Just try to image every meal you ate for the last 3 years  | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
I will try to see how much I remember of the past weeks education: Today we did quantum theory, if we go backwards we did: Proved how the shrödinger equation works for electron orbitals. Showed how to calculate on the photoelectic effect. Showed how to calculate film interference. Proved a formula between energy density in a black cavity and the emitted Em per area. On complex analysis we did show how to utilize the change of arguments of polynomials over a closed curve to show how many solutions that polynomial have in the area enclosed by the curve. They showed both how to do it through maple and how to do it using pen and paper, I could explain but that would take over a page. In the algebra course they just had a long winded explanation of how to construct permutations out of the act of turning objects around. Could also explain everything about that one but same as above. Yesterday the last lesson we had was in numerical analysis about comsol, the last part of it was just a very quick version proving that comsol gives the best possible value for a finite element differential equation problem, nothing that we should know really and impossible for anyone to follow that quick reasoning. The first part was just an explanation of what comsol was. The lesson before that was on general relativity theory, even if we haven't gotten that far yet in the course. In it they showed why all theories older than general relativity are flawed, explained the difference between general and special relativity and how it changes the view we have on the world. The first lesson of yesterday was material science in which they explained how properties of matter is defined as the reactions of the matter when put under strain. Two days ago the last lesson was physical math covering the course layout, showing the various differential equations we will go through in the course like Schrödinger or wave and how to solve PDE in general. The lesson before I had a schedule interference, so I was at two, the last one of those was material science and they just explained the notion of strain and shear and how those properties work in beams. The other lesson was quantum in which they just derived the black body radiation law, at least during the hour I was there. The first lesson this term was this wednesday was complex, nothing special just a brief overview on complex numbers and also showed how to define polarized coordinates through first creating a set of matrixes that behaves in exactly the same ways as complex numbers and show that they are rotational matrixes with the determinant equal to the absolute of the complex number, which directly gives us the polarized form of Z. Wrote two exams in monday, the second was on theoretical electro dynamics. The first question was to show that the potential within a conducting sphere with the middle at point A inside any given electrical field is always equal to the potential at point A before you put the sphere at it. The third question was to calculate the potential within a thick sphere that had a given charge density function, was something like 4a-3r where r goes from a to 2a. The fifth question had a given ball with a magnetisation function and the question was to calculate the magnetic field at the middle of the ball. Hmm, do not remember 2 and 4 right now... The exam before that was on thermo dynamics. Question 1-9 was short answer questions so I do not really remember them since they went too fast to get any thought at all. Question 10 was to through various assumptions calculate if the mass of the atmosphere is bigger than the mass of the rest of the earth. Question 11 was to calculate the amount of isolation which had to be added to keep a small hut at 10 degree celcius when the outside temperature was -10 and you had a heater inside. I answered wrong on this question since I accidentally reversed a number one time too much. Question 14 was to calculate the difference in Gibbs energy between an imaginary type of ice which would have a melting point at 42 degree celcius instead of 0 but all other characteristics the same as normal ice. Thats 3/5 on both tests of the larger problems. I could take the exams of the previous week too and get roughly half of the questions from them but I am a bit bored by this now, but I could get most of the advanced (Aka the ones I needed to think about) questions from roughly every exam I have taken too. Its annoying to try to remember things just by searching through your memory though, its a lot easier when you have something that induces the memory such as similar problems or during a lecture or conversation. Also I could have gone a bit more in depth but that would have taken forever. Also this was no proof or anything, I just wanted to test myself. | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On January 17 2009 09:11 Klockan3 wrote: + Show Spoiler + I asked if you forget that much, I know that I don't. And then I talk about things that are not just repetitions such as "what meal did you eat" but I mean out of new information that you during the time of learning it knows that it can have any sort of significance later. If you consider such information as meals, people you have seen etc then I am sure that most do not even remember a millionth of what happens because your brain do not even put it in the short term memory. I will try to see how much I remember of the past weeks education: Today we did quantum theory, if we go backwards we did: Proved how the shrödinger equation works for electron orbitals. Showed how to calculate on the photoelectic effect. Showed how to calculate film interference. Proved a formula between energy density in a black cavity and the emitted Em per area. On complex analysis we did show how to utilize the change of arguments of polynomials over a closed curve to show how many solutions that polynomial have in the area enclosed by the curve. They showed both how to do it through maple and how to do it using pen and paper, I could explain but that would take over a page. In the algebra course they just had a long winded explanation of how to construct permutations out of the act of turning objects around. Could also explain everything about that one but same as above. Yesterday the last lesson we had was in numerical analysis about comsol, the last part of it was just a very quick version proving that comsol gives the best possible value for a finite element differential equation problem, nothing that we should know really and impossible for anyone to follow that quick reasoning. The first part was just an explanation of what comsol was. The lesson before that was on general relativity theory, even if we haven't gotten that far yet in the course. In it they showed why all theories older than general relativity are flawed, explained the difference between general and special relativity and how it changes the view we have on the world. The first lesson of yesterday was material science in which they explained how properties of matter is defined as the reactions of the matter when put under strain. Two days ago the last lesson was physical math covering the course layout, showing the various differential equations we will go through in the course like Schrödinger or wave and how to solve PDE in general. The lesson before I had a schedule interference, so I was at two, the last one of those was material science and they just explained the notion of strain and shear and how those properties work in beams. The other lesson was quantum in which they just derived the black body radiation law, at least during the hour I was there. The first lesson this term was this wednesday was complex, nothing special just a brief overview on complex numbers and also showed how to define polarized coordinates through first creating a set of matrixes that behaves in exactly the same ways as complex numbers and show that they are rotational matrixes with the determinant equal to the absolute of the complex number, which directly gives us the polarized form of Z. Wrote two exams in monday, the second was on theoretical electro dynamics. The first question was to show that the potential within a conducting sphere with the middle at point A inside any given electrical field is always equal to the potential at point A before you put the sphere at it. The third question was to calculate the potential within a thick sphere that had a given charge density function, was something like 4a-3r where r goes from a to 2a. The fifth question had a given ball with a magnetisation function and the question was to calculate the magnetic field at the middle of the ball. Hmm, do not remember 2 and 4 right now... The exam before that was on thermo dynamics. Question 1-9 was short answer questions so I do not really remember them since they went too fast to get any thought at all. Question 10 was to through various assumptions calculate if the mass of the atmosphere is bigger than the mass of the rest of the earth. Question 11 was to calculate the amount of isolation which had to be added to keep a small hut at 10 degree celcius when the outside temperature was -10 and you had a heater inside. I answered wrong on this question since I accidentally reversed a number one time too much. Question 14 was to calculate the difference in Gibbs energy between an imaginary type of ice which would have a melting point at 42 degree celcius instead of 0 but all other characteristics the same as normal ice. Thats 3/5 on both tests of the larger problems. I could take the exams of the previous week too and get roughly half of the questions from them but I am a bit bored by this now, but I could get most of the advanced (Aka the ones I needed to think about) questions from roughly every exam I have taken too. Its annoying to try to remember things just by searching through your memory though, its a lot easier when you have something that induces the memory such as similar problems or during a lecture or conversation. Also I could have gone a bit more in depth but that would have taken forever. Also this was no proof or anything, I just wanted to test myself. I think you remember those things because you spent a large amount of time thinking about those problems. Still, that's a very impressive feet you just pulled off. Another good way to get more out of your memory is get more sleep. | ||
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Thavg
United States35 Posts
edit: Klockan3, those courses all seem very awesome. | ||
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
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TaG]SiG
United Kingdom53 Posts
Those who play the system Those who do not | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
I mean if they shortened school down into like one year it might be reasonable to assume people mgiht remember some of it... but think about it: 12 years of school. I'm gonna estimate maybe... 40 weeks of school a year? I'll go on the safe side and say 36 weeks of school a year. Now in each week you have 5 days of school for like 6 hours a day. So 30 hours a week, that's 1200 hours a year. That's 14400 HOURS of time they spent "teaching" you. Who the hell could ever memorize 14400 hours worth of stuff? It's like not possible. I used to feel the same way as you. When my parents would tell me "oh man I remember taking that in school but I can't remember it" I used to think "damn old people forget shit so fast huh." Now I'm in my 3rd year of college, and even though I was taking calculus as early as 10th grade, when I try to do simple math nowadays for real life problem solving, it comes extremely slowly and I've forgotten almost everything advanced. When you get taught 14400 hours of bullshit (not even counting all the bullshit you learn at college), there's no way you're going to remember all of it. Chances are you end up remembering the shit from college that's actually relative to your field of work. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
fwiw, i think my memory's pretty decent (actually quite good in some respects.. for instance i can quote big bang theory episodes pretty much verbatim after seeing them 1-2 times but i'll be damned if i can remember even half a page of tax code. of course that's because i don't give a shit about tax and tbbt actually entertains me). if i tried, i could probably fairly accurately recite my days quite a ways back (im speculating of course but i could probably do it, just skimming them in my head now and there isn't anything that i've particularly forgotten), but what value is there to this? i could go back a week, or a few, but it'll end eventually, then i will only remember a few events from that day, then just one event..then nothing. it's just a byproduct of me not caring, so the information gets filtered out. same applies to course material of course oh and at the post above, being in a class for an hour in highschool does not mean you get taught an hour's worth of material.. even in university here, a 1.5hr lecture's material usually is covered by me in about 10-15 minutes prior, without any dicking around and stupid questions asked by students,but your point still stands, yes. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
And I think people with poor/limited life experience overvalue the learnings of public school. | ||
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
also i think because most jobs require secondary education, everyone wants to get to college/uni. but then everyone will want to get high grades to get into that university... its kinda cultural now. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On January 17 2009 07:41 Athos wrote: I learned this in school :p Anyways, there's a forgetting curve that you have to combat if you want to store things in your long term memory. ![[image loading]](http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/7a/200px-ForgettingCurve.svg.png) The forgetting curve by Ebbinhaus shows that you really don't remember most of what you learn. So yeah, the best thing you can do is break up your studying and make multiple passes. And for god sakes, study something you are interested in. Doesn't this reflect back on psychology its depending on the person wanting to remember what they learned 2 hours ago? I mean its all common sense shit. On January 17 2009 10:59 HeadBangaa wrote: Honestly, the limited capacity of long term memory is too precious to waste on the inane factoids that public school imposes. And I think people with poor/limited life experience overvalue the learnings of public school. I guess this explains why I didn't want to attend school b/c I dodged Advanced Placement(AP) just to be in honor classes and still remember everything to make me pass the test that I learned 2 days ago? | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On January 17 2009 09:40 Athos wrote: I think you remember those things because you spent a large amount of time thinking about those problems. Still, that's a very impressive feet you just pulled off. Another good way to get more out of your memory is get more sleep. I sleep like 8-9 hours per day minimum :p Anyway, the things I learn flash through a bit now and then whether I want it or not. Like I talked about X today with Y, then on the evening/next day/next week I get flashes that makes me re enact the shit. Flashes of past experiences, I get them all the time. Like something that happened pops up for a split second and then its gone. Maybe thats the trick? To flash through the days and sleep enough? Flashes would work as "Reusing the memory to make it long term stable" while taking almost no time and sleeping the full amount of hours have always proved to be effective to help memory. On January 17 2009 10:49 -orb- wrote: Unless you have a photographic memory, it's not exactly easy to remember that amount of shit. I mean if they shortened school down into like one year it might be reasonable to assume people mgiht remember some of it... but think about it: 12 years of school. I'm gonna estimate maybe... 40 weeks of school a year? I'll go on the safe side and say 36 weeks of school a year. Now in each week you have 5 days of school for like 6 hours a day. So 30 hours a week, that's 1200 hours a year. That's 14400 HOURS of time they spent "teaching" you. Who the hell could ever memorize 14400 hours worth of stuff? It's like not possible. I used to feel the same way as you. When my parents would tell me "oh man I remember taking that in school but I can't remember it" I used to think "damn old people forget shit so fast huh." Now I'm in my 3rd year of college, and even though I was taking calculus as early as 10th grade, when I try to do simple math nowadays for real life problem solving, it comes extremely slowly and I've forgotten almost everything advanced. When you get taught 14400 hours of bullshit (not even counting all the bullshit you learn at college), there's no way you're going to remember all of it. Chances are you end up remembering the shit from college that's actually relative to your field of work. Its not like any school system anywhere teaches you new things all the time, usually they teach you the same shit over and over and over and over to try to force you to remember a year worth of information during those 12 years. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On January 17 2009 16:11 Klockan3 wrote: I sleep like 8-9 hours per day minimum :p Anyway, the things I learn flash through a bit now and then whether I want it or not. Like I talked about X today with Y, then on the evening/next day/next week I get flashes that makes me re enact the shit. Flashes of past experiences, I get them all the time. Like something that happened pops up for a split second and then its gone. Maybe thats the trick? To flash through the days and sleep enough? Flashes would work as "Reusing the memory to make it long term stable" while taking almost no time and sleeping the full amount of hours have always proved to be effective to help memory. Its not like any school system anywhere teaches you new things all the time, usually they teach you the same shit over and over and over and over to try to force you to remember a year worth of information during those 12 years. I guess this could work well for the person wanting to reflash thru their memory bank of what they were doing yesterday while talking on the phone. I am not that type of person. Whatever happened yesterday happened. If I took a picture of it then yea maybe in 2 years from now I can look at what I did today and might remember what I was doing. Like right now I am posting this reply. If it wasn't for tl.net keeping my posts history I sure as hell wouldn't remember me typing this 2 years from now. I guess the factor of my 12 years of education is the only thing I can really rely on living in this world atm. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
I believe that pretty much anyone can learn anything. The things Klockan3 knows may be complicated, but they are not as complicated as most people imagine. I think the correct ATTITUDE is more important than the intellect. If your attitude is one of humility, always asking questions, never intellectually compromising, and staying flexible and adaptable, learning is easy. Another key to not forgetting a lot of material is to not learn much in the first place. Always generalize, stereotype, learn principles, and make connections. It is part of being intellectually honest. If you just accept a new fact without proving it to yourself, you have to learn an additional chunk of information. If, however, you prove it to yourself you do not have to learn new information, because what you have just learned is understood by you in terms of things you already know. Its no different from computer software design. You don't write new code to make a gui, you call existing libraries. Even if it looks completely different, you only write minimal extra code. (See there I go making generalizations and associations...) | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
I forgot a lot of what I have learned, but I remembered all the "essentials" that I know it is fundimental and basic and I should know it. Specific details of things I might have forgotten, but I know I will remember enough logics behind it that, if things are needed agian, would take me very little time to refresh myself and pick it back up in minimal time. Yes public school sucks, I've been there, but I was not crushed and you shouldn't let stuff "crush" you because it sucks. Should try instead to survive and rape it. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On January 17 2009 16:24 fight_or_flight wrote: I believe that pretty much anyone can learn anything. The things Klockan3 knows may be complicated, but they are not as complicated as most people imagine. I think the correct ATTITUDE is more important than the intellect. If your attitude is one of humility, always asking questions, never intellectually compromising, and staying flexible and adaptable, learning is easy. It is somewhere around these lines I am thinking, most usually make it harder for themselves than they have to and I want to believe that if they approached learning in a very different way they could learn things at more similar speeds to me and then also have a better recollection of it afterwards than they do currently. I think that its wrong to force people to do things over and over and over until they go on about learning as if they were robots, we are not made to learn or remember like machines but that is all they are trying to get you to do. I never got any kind of top grades till I got into the higher levels of education, there long term memory of things is essential which means that everything is cake for me there. I think the problem is that people are taught to just learn for short term and I think the repetitiveness hurts the long term abilities of the memory and peoples ability to think in general. The trick is to not focus on facts, but to focus on relations between facts which can let you derive a ton of facts from very little memory usage and also lets you sort new information quickly. But every damn education just focuses on trying to teach facts, I really hate that. On January 17 2009 16:21 Kennelie wrote: I guess this could work well for the person wanting to reflash thru their memory bank of what they were doing yesterday while talking on the phone. I am not that type of person. Whatever happened yesterday happened. If I took a picture of it then yea maybe in 2 years from now I can look at what I did today and might remember what I was doing. Like right now I am posting this reply. If it wasn't for tl.net keeping my posts history I sure as hell wouldn't remember me typing this 2 years from now. I guess the factor of my 12 years of education is the only thing I can really rely on living in this world atm. But the thing is that all studies gets a ton easier when you instead of having to do a lot of studies at home can just rehash the day a few seconds now and then. | ||
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