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the way i play - Page 2

Blogs > axel
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meathook
Profile Joined December 2007
1289 Posts
November 27 2008 17:17 GMT
#21
On November 28 2008 00:47 axel wrote:
u need high apm to reach high ranks especially as terran , read again my exemple there are several critiqal situations, for every matchup i guess , where you really need to be very fast and the way you will deal theses situations can decide who will win/ lose on a long run.

I almost quit reading your OP because of the awful writing. What I gather is that you confuse bad decision making with not having enough apm. You should post the replay you were talking about so that ppl can gauge whether you are correct on your theory or not.

I know a guy who reached C level as terran with only 110 apm and did so without dodging or playing low level players whom he could easily beat.

On November 27 2008 21:42 distant_voice wrote:
people have been trying to figure out how to measure apm more effectively, that's why you see a lot of people who talk about eapm, which doesn't really solve the problem.

what you describe is multitasking. having decent apm has something to do with it, but a number alone doesn't make a valid statement about how good you are at it.
in the end apm doesn't really say anything about the quality of your game, it's all about the results you get, and that can be pretty nicely measured by your iccup rank because it takes a lot of games into account and is much more valid than "I beat [good player], I'm as good as him."


EAPM does not solve the problem because the formula used to measure it is flawed. From what I understand about how it is measured, is that actions that are "doubles" and random selecting are dropped. What is left is the "EAPM".

I realised some time ago that effective multitasking revolves around properly allocating your actions by prioritising them. This epiphany came to me after I showed a B level friend an FPVOD I recorded of myself playing. His comments were not really helpful except for one thing he told me "sometimes you spam your scvs instead of macroing". I later started understanding exactly how much this meant when I saw how progamers played in their FPVODs (Xellos really good example).

What this means is that you avoid doing actions that are not needed at any given time replacing them with actions that are needed. For example, you do not move around or select your main force while you are not being attacked or attacking or setting up an attack, this is the time for base management. Sounds like common sense, right? Because it is.
However, ppl do not always play by common sense and it is not always clear what "sensible" is at certain moments so ppl play with instinct.

My point is that merely dropping duplicate actions from the total apm and calling it Effective APM is only a small part of getting the true EAPM.
Starcraft is also a game of incomplete information -- as a player, never know all the variables of the match you are playing (unless you are using maphack, perhaps) so writing a program that would put itself in each player's shoes, analyse his situation during each minute and decide on what the optimal action is would be extremely difficult, I am guessing.

What are the chances of someone writing an AI that would analyse replay files?

If you're serious about faking being good though, you'll manage to manipulate your rank too (by dodging koreans or only 4-pooling for example).

This comes to mind . . .
An ugly planet. A bug planet.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
November 27 2008 19:59 GMT
#22
try changing your screen every second.
And all is illuminated.
axel
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
France385 Posts
November 28 2008 12:32 GMT
#23
On November 28 2008 01:29 Chef wrote:


OP: I know you say you're LIMITED to B- (you're not) with 130 APM, but I'd like to know what your actual rank is...


Actually u wrong my best rank is b- check lafranceonsux
http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/255217/
(and i'm national B )
axel
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
France385 Posts
November 28 2008 12:46 GMT
#24
On November 28 2008 01:48 RaGe wrote:

Unless you have bad hand-eye coordination,

i think you pointed my real problem, when i was younger i was left handed and was forced to become right handed. This caused me some troubles , especially for playing piano or others things which requires 2 hands. I have always been very weak at doing it, it's like my brain is freezing during a lil second everytime i have to execute things with my 2 hands coordinated. I dont know how to solve it .
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
November 28 2008 13:16 GMT
#25
On November 28 2008 01:48 RaGe wrote:
I was stuck at ~120 for a long time too. The reason is usually not your handspeed, it's the latency between actions. This means its a mental problem.

Hmm maybe, that wasnt clear enough. I'll elaborate a bit more. Low apm means you perform less actions in the same minute a higher apm guy performs more actions. Or differently said, you perform the same actions in a longer time than a high apm guy.

Unless you have bad hand-eye coordination, it's often not the action itself that takes longer than with an apm player, its the sequential act of multiple actions. With other words, it takes too long for your brain to prepare for the next action after the first has been completed.

Don't believe me? Look at your own words. You can split perfectly (which requires zero inter-action thinking, and high handspeed), but you have trouble doing multiple things midgame at the same speed you split.

The key to getting higher apm in your case isn't training 1a2a3a4a like mad to gain a couple of miliseconds, it's about being uberfocussed during the game. You need to think of your next action while you're performing the former. You need to have a queue of actions lined up in your brain, so you dont end up starting a depot and thinking about your next action for 0.1 second.

It's very hard to learn, and very hard to describe. I guess some people never really get past a certain APM barrier. Look at the pro's, they train HOURS a day and often cant make it past 250.
Everyone should be able to get 250 though, with a nice amount of training.

So, in your next game, stop thinking "gotta get higher apm gotta get higher apm", but start thinking "after sending this scv to make a depot I'm gonna check how far my tanks is from being done, gonna make an scv at my natural expansion etc.."

I hope this was useful

This post was gold.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
November 28 2008 17:10 GMT
#26
On November 28 2008 21:32 axel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2008 01:29 Chef wrote:


OP: I know you say you're LIMITED to B- (you're not) with 130 APM, but I'd like to know what your actual rank is...


Actually u wrong my best rank is b- check lafranceonsux
http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/255217/
(and i'm national B )

o.o I asked a question I wasn't that concerned with proof... When I said you're not limited to B- with 130 APM... I just mean people like Fisheye are probably capable of getting to A rank with low APM.
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