EPTI want to start programming - Page 2
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15325 Posts
On November 18 2008 18:31 azndsh wrote: Python is by far the best language for learning how to program from scratch, but C/C++ is still by far the most used language. Java is also good starting language, but it really does so much for you that you'll miss out on a lot of stuff (its design philosophy is kinda weird) 100% agree on the Python part. If you really start from scratch, start with Python. It will give you the basics and the transitioning to Java or C++ will be much easier. Java is by far the most used language today. There is billions of lines of Java rotting in in-house corporate software. If you want to work as a software developer Java is probably the way to go. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On November 18 2008 21:06 zatic wrote: 100% agree on the Python part. If you really start from scratch, start with Python. It will give you the basics and the transitioning to Java or C++ will be much easier. Java is by far the most used language today. There is billions of lines of Java rotting in in-house corporate software. If you want to work as a software developer Java is probably the way to go. Yup; now the question no one asked. What is it that you want to program? Depending on what you want to program is depending on where you should start. | ||
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Moaf_
Austria76 Posts
On November 18 2008 20:00 Cambium wrote: [...] C++ might not be necessary for you to learn (unless you want to develop games or IPhone apps). Well, as always, depends on what you kind of game you want to develop. If you aim to program an 3D engine where every bit counts, c++ and assembler coding is the only way to go. If you want to create non high-performance games, implementing them in C# with managed DirectX results in a product that is running (normally more than) sufficiently fast. For those who are interested, Microsoft developed also XNA (supports only C#) containing a framework that is basically an abstraction layer above DirectX - simplifying the coding of 2D and 3D applications for Windows/XBox games. Of course you lose some control, but it's still possible to dig deep enough into the 3D coding (e.g. using HLSL). As far as i have read, using XNA over managed DirectX results in a performance loss of about 5-15%. But still, it's possible to create games like this. | ||
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clazziquai
6685 Posts
Hm. I've always loved computers because of games, music, and what it can do. Therefore I became interested with computers. Now I want to know more about them, and I think it would be pretty cool to make programs, idk just as a hobby or minor (for school) or something  | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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clazziquai
6685 Posts
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b3h47pte
United States1317 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
I'd use: C++ for high performance applications Java if platform independence is important, or for applets etc. PHP for web applications Oh, and HTML is not needed unless you actually want to do HTML stuff. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On November 18 2008 22:58 clazziquai wrote: 18 years old, freshman @ college. Oh that's great news. You still have lots of time (that's when people typically start anyway) and resources! Good luck, glhfdontgg | ||
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betaben
681 Posts
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
I recommend Java because it's cleaner, more pure OOP than C++ and it has <interface>, very convenient to manage components. Not to mention the Collections frameworks which i use almost every time to manage array and list. The first few months going to be boring until you are able to build something good with GUI using Swing or Web-front for the interface. Sorry for the messy sentence. So as starter, a motivating book like.. Head First Java (http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/0596009208) ..would be really good to follow. It's a really really good book, I wish I'd read it when i first started programming. + Show Spoiler + it's recommended to buy the book but I know a place to get the e-book online for free, pm me if u want it | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Head First Java Thinking in Java (free online) Java in a Nutshell (more of a reference book) Hardcore Java (more advanced) | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
On November 18 2008 20:04 Cambium wrote: In any case, learning on your own is EXTREMELY hard. Classes -> Internship is the way to go. Even then, I've seen a lot of coursemates fall throughout the years. Therefore small warning/disclaimer for OP: DOING THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY Good luck. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On November 19 2008 00:28 Elvin_vn wrote: I first learned C++ then switched to Java, the switch was a breeze to me. Whereas if you switch from java to C++, i bet it'll be a bitch :p. I recommend Java because it's cleaner, more pure OOP than C++ and it has <interface>, very convenient to manage components. Not to mention the Collections frameworks which i use almost every time to manage array and list. The first few months going to be boring until you are able to build something good with GUI using Swing or Web-front for the interface. Sorry for the messy sentence. So as starter, a motivating book like.. Head First Java (http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/0596009208) ..would be really good to follow. It's a really really good book, I wish I'd read it when i first started programming. + Show Spoiler + it's recommended to buy the book but I know a place to get the e-book online for free, pm me if u want it just want to say I thought that book sucked I much preferred o'reilly's java in a nutshell which is HUGE and a bit dense, but imo much better to learn from headstart only gives specific examples, and its basically: here, you retype this. and it doesnt explain a lot of java....I just really really did not like it at all. that said, check out both books if you can before you buy them (they can be pretty expensive) and in general O'reilly tends to have the best books. You can really get burned by other books, they either wont cover enough, be too dense to read or things like that | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
I'm a programmer; just finished my CS degree this past year. I agree with everything Cambium said. The only thing I might suggest is that you learn regular old "procedural" rather than "object oriented" programming to begin with (you can use Java for either; I strongly recommend Java). That's because procedural programs generally read very easily, top to bottom. Object-oriented programming is an art form and should be approached when the apparent limitations of procedural programming motivate you to do so. Start writing simple procedural Java programs (loops, variables, function calls). You will become comfortable with Java's syntax and be ready to tackle objects and their glorious complexities (type hierarchies, polymorphism, design patterns). edit: The difficulty in learning programming is that "beginner" programs tend to be very contrived/boring. Like, a classic beginner program is writing a simple math calculator. I think the tutorials on the Sun site are pretty good, though. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On November 19 2008 01:13 Aerox wrote: Even then, I've seen a lot of coursemates fall throughout the years. Therefore small warning/disclaimer for OP: DOING THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY Good luck. oh yeah my compsci introductory course (which is basic programming, pretty much what you would take as an option) started with 25-30 people, ended with 5-8 and only 1 person completed the last assignment. So I mean its not like impossibly hard, but you have to be pretty dedicated, and make sure to abuse your teacher and ask questions wherever possible. Programming is a course that really really rewards prior experience, so the more you can study now before you go into a course (even just syntax) will help. Dont be intimitaded, but take advantage of every single opportunity you can get | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On November 19 2008 01:20 fusionsdf wrote: oh yeah my compsci introductory course (which is basic programming, pretty much what you would take as an option) started with 25-30 people, ended with 5-8 and only 1 person completed the last assignment. So I mean its not like impossibly hard, but you have to be pretty dedicated, and make sure to abuse your teacher and ask questions wherever possible. Programming is a course that really really rewards prior experience, so the more you can study now before you go into a course (even just syntax) will help. Dont be intimitaded, but take advantage of every single opportunity you can get Haha so true. In my Data Structures class on the first day, the professor said, "Look to your left. Look to your right. At the end of this class, only one of you will remain." It started with about 100 people, ended with about 15-20. | ||
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Suggestion Box
China115 Posts
As long as it's not a useless language I say do whatever one helps you program the most--whatever one will make you practice/play the most is the best one for you. I don't think C or C++ is necessarily too difficult for your first language. But since you don't even know HTML just learning HTML and Javascript and playing with that could help you start thinking like a programmer, which is really the part that needs to be learned--it just takes practice. Honestly just making some decent javascript stuff would be a great start, and if you can't do any HTML, do that first, too. It's more about being able to just attack a problem, and do it well. Once you acquire this skill in one language you are fine and you can just look up things and code in other languages (of course you have to learn the technical complications and professional standards eventually too if you want to be a good programmer). And my point is, even if you just try to make random shit in HTML and javascript for the next two years (assuming you've done neither before) you probably will still not have "it" very well--that programming skill just takes time. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 18 2008 21:06 zatic wrote: 100% agree on the Python part. If you really start from scratch, start with Python. It will give you the basics and the transitioning to Java or C++ will be much easier. Java is by far the most used language today. There is billions of lines of Java rotting in in-house corporate software. If you want to work as a software developer Java is probably the way to go. I actually disagree with Python being the best language to learn from scratch. Sure, its easy to learn, but it cuts corners on some rules, such as formal type declarations. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a little frustrating to move to another language (like C++ or Java) that's stricter about rules. IMO its much easier to learn a system thats strict on rules and transition to a loose one than vice versa. | ||
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