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Track
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States217 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-16 06:03:02
September 16 2008 06:01 GMT
#1
This is my first paper for Philosophy 2200, on the subject "Are Religion and Science in Conflict?" I'm looking for criticism, questions, anything you like. I hope you enjoy.



“Are Religion and Science in Conflict?”

A subject which has been in constant debate ever since the period of man’s emerging enlightenment in the areas of science and mathematics, the perpetual conflict between religion and the sciences is no stranger to philosophical inquiry. Indeed, the subject has been the brunt of countless assaults from both the scientific camp and its religious counterpart for centuries, yet no universally acceptable answer has yet arrived. That such a conflict has raged so long unabated, and through ages of such monumental human growth in the understanding of the sciences and still remains a mystery is a testament to the complexity of the issue. In examining whether or not science and religion are indeed in conflict, the logical man, ruled by the canons of logic and with reason as his sole magistrate, must come to the conclusion that they are indeed at war. The aforementioned determination is the only one which may be reached if the inquiring mind who searches for the answer submits to the somber, cold fact of the matter and does not delegate his reason to the back burner in favor of what he feels must be a wonderful, meaning-filled event, full of pageantry and benevolent intent, as is the view of most radical Christian fundamentalist groups that are at war with modern science.


Religion and science are, by origin, born of man’s great need to understand “why and how.” Early man, dwelling in caves and eventually evolving into society, began to experience the rather immature form of intellectual pursuit, the need to understand “how.” He saw the sun rise and set, children being born into the world, and death and illness beset his loved ones. The first innovations and developments by culture originated from this basic question of “how,” and the developments which followed allowed man to evolve mentally into a creature which began to wonder not only how, but why his world behaved the way that it did. Thus was born modern intellectualism. In intellectualism’s early stages, man turned to the easiest way to explain the inexplicable nature of the world: religion. When faced with a problem whose answer was beyond his reach, man wrestled with his instinctive need to understand and his lack of understanding and came to the reasonably sound conclusion that a being greater than himself was responsible and therefore he was not meant to understand. Such a determination settled the matter, and gave man peace and a sense of understanding in the face of the unknown. Yet in an age of comprehension and development such as the one in which we live, the question is no longer “how,” as modern science has answered almost every fundamental question known to man, the question which now plagues mankind is “why?”


In the spirit of intellectual pursuit, an intelligent mind may discern that three things have given rise to modern religion: the need to understand, or at least cope with the unknown, the necessity of hope, if not in one’s life then in the afterlife, and the inherent need for man to have a purpose in his life. And such things are well and good for the religious man, yet in a world such as we have today, with science conquering the horizons of life’s difficult questions, one may begin to see the conflict that arises. Religion is, by its very nature, a substitute for understanding, and yet modern groups, most notably Bible Belt Christian fundamentalists, seek to establish religion as just as credible as science in the realm of scientific inquiry. Science, as the younger of the two, has up until modern time deferred to religion in such matters and has therefore, rather unfortunately, allowed a rather sizeable group of people to arise who are comfortable allowing pure aestheticism to infect their reason and deprive them of their rationality regarding such issues as evolution and the origin of the universe. Religion has, in the past, been far from objective in dealing with science’s dissent in such areas, most notably in the case of Galileo’s support of the Copernican heliocentric model of the galaxy, so why therefore should science be objective in dealing with its logically bereft counterpart? Stephen Jay Gould, in his essay “There Is No Basic Conflict Between Religion and Science” spoke extensively of “Non Overlapping Magisteria,” the concept that religion and science each are possessing of their own fields, each independent of the other and not in any conflict. Such an organization is convenient indeed for the religious man, for it spares his idealistic fallacies the normal rigors of scientific examination, yet it appears to me that science is giving religion too easy treatment by far. Here we have an age of enlightenment, with human reason and understanding of the universe advancing at leaps and bounds, and yet science, the arbiter of knowledge, is tolerating an imposter to stand in his stead and give forth knowledge from the teat of “revelation?”


Were it only the counterintuitive practice of the blind leading the blind in which religion so eagerly partakes, science might forgive such an intrusion, but religion also makes sweeping claims which lie square in the domain of the purely scientific. It may be stated that religion answers the “why” of it, whereas science addresses the “how.” All this is well and good, but such a statement requires a certain amount of convenient forgetfulness. A quiet dismissal of one’s rationality is necessary for one to embrace a doctrine which teaches you that a divine being is responsible for all creation of the world, a statement which in and of itself has already crossed into the clearly (Non) Overlapping Magisteria, but also a doctrine which states that the word of the established religion is unequivocally true in every sense. Richard Dawkins, in his essay “Religion and Science Cannot Be Reconciled,” points out the inherent fallacy in stating that one’s doctrine is categorically true in every case by pointing out the hypocrisies prevalent even in simple examination of the differing personalities of “God” in just the Old and New Testaments of the Bible: wrathful, jealous, sexist, racist, vengeful, and loving, cuddly, adorable to a fault, respectively. This convenient dismissal of fact is necessary if one wishes to follow the “straight and narrow” path of religion(which is another aspect of religion which appeals to the simple man, but I digress.)


In this war between paths of human experience, religion has struck out at science with one weapon in particular in its arsenal which gives men of scientific tendency pause, the question “Are methods of science perfect?” and the implication therein that if the methods are indeed imperfect, then religion may yet have more of a foundation than science would lead others to believe. And such a question indeed has merit, in that if one examines scientific beliefs of the present, one may immediately discern that they are not the same as a century ago, therefore obviously scientific methods are imperfect. However, science has never been the one to claim that it is infallible, that has been the act of religion, and the logical, rational man cannot in good faith put his trust in a system which cannot by its very nature change to adapt and survive! Therefore science does not need to be perfect, whereas religion by necessity must be perfect(given that if any aspect of religion is wrong, then the supposedly perfect façade crashes.)


Another daunting weapon which religion wields at its scientific counterpart is the issue that religion offers people a source of creation. An answer to the question of “Why is the earth here?” The veracity of such an answer as religion provides aside, religion does have an interesting point. It is through such a point that science receives one of its most definitive characteristics: objectivity. Science, as a practice, does not deal with such sentimental issues, but rather hard data. Religion, to contrast, appeals to the senses, the champion of aestheticism and sentiment alike. It would seem upon immediate examination that such a statement that these two occupy distinctly different areas is rather reminiscent of a certain Mr. Gould’s standpoint of NOMA, the clash may be seen upon slightly deeper inspection. If religion’s answer to the aforementioned question “Why is the earth here?” was purely religious in nature, then perhaps NOMA is indeed a feasible idea. However, this is not the case. Religion’s idea of the origin of the earth is as scientific as such a concept may possibly go with no logical foundation to be found. And stating that religion itself is the only way to true intuitive knowledge on such a key issue as creation is as gross a trespass onto the territory of science as could be conceived, and therein lies the fundamental issue. If religion is wrong about creation, then religion is defunct entirely. Such a dependency is a key weakness of religion, which is another example of the immutability prevalent which will inevitably be the downfall of organized religion, particularly fundamental Christianity. Along that line, if religion happens to be correct on its idea of creation, then science indeed has met its match and must cede victory to religion. However, as I’ve said many times, this is an era of enlightenment, and as such the burden of proof surely lies upon religion to disprove the well documented and proven rigors of scientific examination.


When deciding whether or not religion and science are in conflict, one needs only to turn to the fundamental differences of the two, and one’s answer is plainly revealed. Their inherent, fundamental differences make it utterly impossible for either to truly thrive while the other exists. Therefore it is my opinion that a true society, advanced in intellectual pursuit and possessing of morality independent of religion, would be an atheistic one, devoid of cloying distractions upon the reason and rationality of its citizenry.


(I spaced the paragraphs out for ease of reading)

Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
September 16 2008 06:34 GMT
#2
i took a 'science and religion' class from a very excellent religion professor and i also took philosophy of religion from a very excellent philosophy professor. two of the best courses i took. crazy subjects!

i think your bias is clear and that's bad from an academic standpoint.

for people entering the subject with the idea "there is a conflict and science should win", skimming the surface of science and religion will tend to empower their initial thoughts. it takes a bunch of reading from a variety of authors to understand the positions of "there should be no conflict" or "religion has its place"

for a philosophy paper, and perhaps for any kind of academic paper (at least at undergrad level), your sentences are too complex and contain too many words. it sucks that we're forced to read authors all day that write huge complicated sentences when the best thing we can do in our own writing is to be very simple. it's not fair. well, it is fair, cuz they've written a ton more in their lifetimes and they know their research better and their own ideas better than an undergrad kid churning out an assignment. so they've earned their ability to write like that. and i know it's hard when you're writing because you're thinking "how can i say this any simpler?" and it seems impossible. that's understandable. but it's what you should work toward. if you doubt my opinion, feel free to ask your professor, of course! just ask "do you think it's too wordy? should i try to write with simpler language or is this fine?"

i think it reads much more like a persuasive essay than a philosophy paper.

but, seeing as its your first, it's a pretty good job. i'm sure my academic writing style used to be very similar to that!
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Track
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States217 Posts
September 16 2008 06:43 GMT
#3
Well, the purpose of the paper was to be argumentative and support a position. I like your criticism though and greatly appreciate it!

How can being complex be a bad thing in such a regard?

Thanks again!
Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
Uraeus
Profile Joined February 2008
France1378 Posts
September 16 2008 07:38 GMT
#4
Congratulations! I really liked it.
Any good Christian would shoot you in the face after reading this though, as there is a lot of religion bashing. Not that I mind, actually.
Anyway, I think this kind of contradicts your introduction, in which you sound like you are going to examine both positions and analyze them without bias. Instead, to sum up, you say "science is right, religion is wrong. GG no re", even though you say that "no universally acceptable answer has yet arrived" after millenia of controversy involving great scientists and philosophers. That makes you sound a little pretentious.
In France, what would be expected for such an essay would involve 1 or 2 paragraphs in which you give credit to religion (I know, this sounds wrong...) regarding science. I have a few exemples in mind : the Vatican has top notch astronomers, some brilliant philosophers and scientists were die hard Christians (like Leibniz) and... Uhhh. That's all I have right now, but it's a start, right?
Then, you would be expected to argue the point that science and religion are irreconciliable (not sure about the spelling) without bashing religion too much.
And finally give your opinion where you can let loose your hatred of religion.
You are not in France though, and I am not familiar with what essays should look like in the US.
Anyway, I think your first 3 paragraphs are very good, and all the points you make are interesting and well argued.
As for your essay being too wordy, English is not my native language and I had no problem reading you. So unless your class is "Philosophy for the illiterate" I don't think it would be a problem (but again, I am not familiar with US school system)
You are lucky I don't have a banhammer
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
September 16 2008 16:47 GMT
#5
even with the assignment "to be argumentative and support a position" i'd probably read that just as "choose a position and support your position with (philosophical) arguments" but of course i'm not in your class so maybe you got the right of it.

being complex is bad when it distracts from your arguments. usually arguments are pretty simple but explaining them can be difficult. a good philosophy writer can explain arguments very easily. did you write an outline for this paper? a summary of your supporting arguments and your overall argument? i feel like if i were reading this essay for class and had to take notes on it, i'd be ignoring a lot of the content. too much nuance and rhetoric. there are lengthy phrases where shorter ones could suffice.

one of the most difficult papers i had was from my science and religion course, where my professor packed the prompt with tons of questions but then put a short word limit like 1000 words. he said it's much more challenging to write a shorter paper than a longer paper and that most undergrad students are given such generous word limits that they don't learn how to write efficiently. (and kids love to be right at the word limit as though a longer paper is deserving of a higher grade)

i think your paper could be rewritten to be much shorter (and therefore naturally simpler) without many philosophy professors feeling that the arguments have been compromised. if you ever write a paper significantly below the word limit, you can run a draft by your professor prior to the deadline to ask if there is sufficient substance.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&q=how to write a philosophy paper&btnG=Search

check out some of these guides

you can do boring things like repeating the same words and phrases, using very direct introductions to paragraphs rather than varying and interesting ones, etc. your professor is going to be bored anyway.

i'd be interested to hear your grade and/or comments from your professor about your paper!
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-16 19:46:25
September 16 2008 19:45 GMT
#6
Like Nony said, this is not an example of a philosophical argument, but rather an argumentative essay. It's possible to do both as Russell and others have, but I don't think you did. You essentially just take shot after shot at fundamental religion while driving home the point that science and religion answer the same questions, except that you don't actually prove they answer the same questions like a Sam Harris does.

Not to give do your work for you, but think of the deck stacking argument and any other argument a religious person can make to say they can coexist. Proving your point based on creationism is fruitless, because Gould (not that he even believed what he wrote...) and most other scientists that have religion don't share that view, and yet still believe they can coexist.

As for the writing style, it's lively but I don't think it serves the purpose well and as both a poli sci and philosophy student, I think all papers should be as parsimonious as possible because it fucking sucks reading that crap.

"If I had more time, I would have written you a shorter letter" - Cicero
Or something like that.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-16 20:54:53
September 16 2008 20:34 GMT
#7
a fine piece of rhetoric with little value. you have put thought into writing the paper, but not into the issue.

the usual framing of the argument is in a social context, like, can a society that respects science still tolerate religion. for something like "does science contradict religion," you would have to do more work. the main issue is whether the indefinite religious metaphysics could be an excuse to believe while not really believe. if god is not definable in any empirical theories of science, is it still real. then the matter becomes less religion vs science but the quirky nature of belief. to make the matter simple, why would people distinguish between "Metaphysics" and 'practical reality.'

in any case, you really need to define science. there are various approaches to science, from all encompassing METAPHYSICS of old style natural philosophy, to frugal, heavily sceptical and empirical 'methods' that sacrifice broadness of claim for rigor. there is a huge chasm between how a plato and how a popper would answer your prompt. so, make clear the distinction between metaphysics, "empirical theories", and normative values. then talk about the tensions of religion and science in each area. then outline what type of religion is compatible with what type of science.

it is fine to be stridently against religion, but your argument is easily beaten down by more sophisticated, or nuanced understandings of religion.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-16 20:49:22
September 16 2008 20:46 GMT
#8
Your substantiative breakdown of post-modern normativity through the lens of a discriminatory pre-fiat Foucaultian view WHILE PRESERVING your existential privilege to Marxist-Leninist epistemology is remarkable my dear sir
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-16 20:49:12
September 16 2008 20:47 GMT
#9
and everytime you are about to make a grand sweeping statement, STOP. STOP at all cost. you are only allowed at most 2 such remarks per topic.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
September 16 2008 20:50 GMT
#10
Listen to oneofthem, he has considerable experience in the field of post-normative reverse modernization using socialist free-market recrimination.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 16 2008 21:01 GMT
#11
you almost had me there with marxist leninist epistemology, almost raged.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Track
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States217 Posts
September 17 2008 03:01 GMT
#12
On September 17 2008 05:46 ahrara_ wrote:
Your substantiative breakdown of post-modern normativity through the lens of a discriminatory pre-fiat Foucaultian view WHILE PRESERVING your existential privilege to Marxist-Leninist epistemology is remarkable my dear sir


wat
Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
September 17 2008 06:22 GMT
#13
i was merely discussing the contemporary placation of negative presumption in the event of a potentiality towards Machiavellian inhibition.

nothin too complicated
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
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