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On August 04 2008 07:37 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:33 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 07:08 HeavOnEarth wrote:On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. And yet no one forced you to make this post, please stop with the childish slander and let's get back on topic there was no childish slander.
Putting the way the OP was presented aside,
You are still basing your facts on a case that is still in process and allegations by nitpicking every "single leads or assumptions about evidence on the chance that inadequate attention had been paid, beforehand ..." "...we have yet to see exactly the breakthroughs" that are , so far, unsupported ... ( by the videos you have portrayed as your leading points )
All unsupported coincidences, sure they are fishy, anything can be fishy when you point it out IMO, but the fact that they go without backing and without "thorough totality of evidence " , IMO, you have no right to criticize other peoples beliefs, right or wrong as they may be.
Don't get me wrong . . if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and acts like a duck, generally it is, ( regarding the conspiracy ) and i am a pretty open- minded to conspiracy theories ; but that's what they are, theories until proven otherwise.
I didn't say otherwise! But they will never be proven without people actively pushing for a real investigation. There is no reason any of this information should be hidden! Well i sincerely doubt TL is going to make much of a difference in politics and especially how government run things 
this means nothing. everyone effects everything.
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well, i've offered my side of the story; i could refute a couple more things but that would just lead to travis humiliating me as i don't have much experience in the whole "conspiracy" thing
good luck with your blog sir
i think the guy leading the crusade to impeach bush is hilarious though , of first degree murder directly linked to Iraq ; hope he wins ~ 90 more days !
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On August 04 2008 07:41 Jibba wrote:
You haven't shown that there's a possibility.
it boggles my mind that I should even have to.
The coverage of the scientist and court testimony have pointed to him being a crazy person. Of course you're going to respond that it's a government cover up, but again there's no proof. You've got leaky motives, by which could be used to construe nearly any group as complicit to 9/11 or any other event in history.
ok I will humor you and say all of that is correct. he was looney. and he was looney 7 years ago back when he did it. why the hell was a crazy guy working with anthrax for the department of defense.
Look at the link you posted. I'm not going to bother checking the sources for all of their quotes, but I did check the first two and they point out problems with the commission, but nothing implying conspiracy within the Pentagon, CIA or FBI.
you clearly didn't even read the testimonies, this is exactly what I am talking about
please do not make me show each and every example of where they do say they believe that the government is covering something up, there are a ton of them
Their first blurb from Senator Cleland is mostly bullshit propagandizing. The Commission had an agreement to access the daily White House briefings, dating back to Clinton's administration, and as part of the deal to gain access they were not allowed to share that information.
you have successfully proven that one out of the dozens of examples could possibly be biased.
Another problem of yours is that the websites and videos you keep linking us do as much twisting of information as a regular Fox News broadcast.
yes, those damn biased facts and quotes.
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On August 04 2008 07:52 talismania wrote:
affects
no.
both of the words could work there, but the one I chose has the definition I intended.
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On August 04 2008 07:52 talismania wrote:
affects
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United States22883 Posts
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On August 04 2008 08:03 Jibba wrote:
I said I read the first two. I don't have time to waste with that whole web page.
THEN WHY DID YOU ATTEMPT TO DEBUNK IT?
without even reading it???
LOL
lol i clicked your links. the first one elaborates:
The compromise will allow the 10-member commission to create a four-person subcommittee that will have varying degrees of access to the documents known as Presidential Daily Briefs from the Bush and Clinton administrations, according to a commission statement and sources familiar with the agreement.
But the accord includes numerous restrictions limiting what parts of briefings can be seen and what parts can later be shared with the rest of the bipartisan panel and includes White House review of much of that information, according to sources familiar with the agreement. Those with direct access will take notes, and those notes are subject to review by the White House before being shared with others, sources said.
how does this not HELP my argument??
i started reading the 2nd one but I really can't tell what it's about and I don't want to waste too much time on it without first being told why it's relevant. especially not when the link is for "opinionjournal", which I would have to assume is exactly what it sounds like.
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On August 04 2008 07:34 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:12 ahrara_ wrote:On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. I think what he was trying to say is that you're a hypocrite for accusing other people of being close minded and condescending when you're doing the same thing. hardly. I am perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong (though there would still be so many unanswered questions!)
I don't think you even realize how much your behavior contradicts what you're saying. Jibba has been trying to argue with you respectfully and you just laugh at his face and respond with one liners like he was a piece of shit :|. You also demand that we read your evidence (I did) but then you ignore his.
Ok, let's test your open-mindedness:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
What do you have to say in response to that? I'm not saying that as if "ha my trump card i win you lose" but I really want to see how you respond to sound evidence from the other side.
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dude, you are totally reaching here. You are saying because there might be a conspiracy with the anthrax case that there is a conspiracy behind 9/11. That conclusion just does not folow from what you have presented.
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United States22883 Posts
For anyone else not as "open minded" as me who won't go to the website, here are some of their other sections.
Mind Control Information Summaries: For the best, most concise introduction to the mind control information, we highly recommend our mind control summaries. These fact-filled summaries provide revealing mind control information from both landmark books and declassified government mind control documents.
...
There are dozens of other systems. Many are viable and well tested. But this short list is sufficient to make the point: new energy technology is here. It offers the world pollution-free energy abundance for everyone, everywhere. It is now possible to stop the production of "greenhouse gases" and shut down the nuclear power plants. Transportation and production costs for just about everything can drop dramatically. Yet all these wonderful benefits that can make life on this planet so much easier and better for everyone have been postponed for decades. Why? Whose purposes are served by this postponement?
...
UFO Information Summaries: For the best, most concise introduction to UFO information, we highly recommend our UFO summaries. These fact-filled summaries provide revealing UFO information from dozens of government, military, and intelligence witnesses with impeccable credentials. An M.D. and former ER director, Dr. Steven M. Greer, has compiled videotaped testimony of astronauts, generals, professors, and highly respected government officials who reveal their direct experiences in the UFO cover-up. These testimonies were transcribed and published in the highly revealing book Disclosure. You can order the videotaped testimony to verify the statements of each witness. Read our fascinating summaries of this book below.
Etc.
Some of the covered up new energy sources include Cold Fusion and electrolysis that will make your car drive "for the cost of water". Now these other parts don't affect the credibility of the 9/11 portion, but I wonder why all these people with nice looking credentials are getting mixed up with this site.
EDIT: To me, the presidential thing is like this. The president gets briefed on thousands of topics per year, I'm sure much of it is classified. It's also THEIRS to give out, like it or not. I can think of quite a few reasons why they wouldn't want to expose Presidential briefings.
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Travis, I'm not going to pretend I have the resources or capability to debunk every testimony on that page. The best I can offer is contradictory evidence from people with equal credibility. If nothing else, this goes to show that you can't "win" this argument for sure, because none of us have the real expertise or access to "find out the truth".
Which I guess is my way of copping out of this debate. Matter of fact is, you can't "win" on something like this. We'll always find "evidence" and counter evidence supporting our views. My only problem is the obnoxious "WAKE UP SHEEPLE" way you talk down to anyone who disagrees.
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On August 04 2008 08:15 Jibba wrote:For anyone else not as "open minded" as me who won't go to the website, here are some of their other sections. Show nested quote +Mind Control Information Summaries: For the best, most concise introduction to the mind control information, we highly recommend our mind control summaries. These fact-filled summaries provide revealing mind control information from both landmark books and declassified government mind control documents.
...
There are dozens of other systems. Many are viable and well tested. But this short list is sufficient to make the point: new energy technology is here. It offers the world pollution-free energy abundance for everyone, everywhere. It is now possible to stop the production of "greenhouse gases" and shut down the nuclear power plants. Transportation and production costs for just about everything can drop dramatically. Yet all these wonderful benefits that can make life on this planet so much easier and better for everyone have been postponed for decades. Why? Whose purposes are served by this postponement?
...
UFO Information Summaries: For the best, most concise introduction to UFO information, we highly recommend our UFO summaries. These fact-filled summaries provide revealing UFO information from dozens of government, military, and intelligence witnesses with impeccable credentials. An M.D. and former ER director, Dr. Steven M. Greer, has compiled videotaped testimony of astronauts, generals, professors, and highly respected government officials who reveal their direct experiences in the UFO cover-up. These testimonies were transcribed and published in the highly revealing book Disclosure. You can order the videotaped testimony to verify the statements of each witness. Read our fascinating summaries of this book below.
Etc.
Some of the covered up new energy sources include Cold Fusion and electrolysis that will make your car drive "for the cost of water". Now these other parts don't affect the credibility of the 9/11 portion, but I wonder why all these people with nice looking credentials are getting mixed up with this site. EDIT: To me, the presidential thing is like this. The president gets briefed on thousands of topics per year, I'm sure much of it is classified. It's also THEIRS to give out, like it or not. I can think of quite a few reasons why they wouldn't want to expose Presidential briefings.
it always cracks me up when people insist that something which violates the laws of thermodynamics is true. i mean ya i can see how you could doubt 9/11. but PHYSICS? the only way you could get that wrong is blatant ignorance. A high school senior in Honors Physics could explain why that's bunk.
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On August 04 2008 08:14 Mastermind wrote:
dude, you are totally reaching here. You are saying because there might be a conspiracy with the anthrax case that there is a conspiracy behind 9/11. That conclusion just does not folow from what you have presented.
I have never said that. What I will say is:
1.) I believe the government, at bare minimum, allowed 9/11 to happen on purpose.
2.) I think there are people with huge amounts of influence over the government of the U.S. and they don't give a shit about anyone but theirselves.
3.) It is incredibly easy to cover things up when you control the media. How many of you already knew the information in the videos I posted? Why have we not been informed that the anthrax came from our own DoD, why has this information been hidden for the last several years?
4.) For all of this to be legit, there has to be some of the greatest coincidences ever. So this "crazy" guy, who works for the DoD as a top bio-engineer(WHICH MAKES NO SENSE), takes his anthrax, and sends it to some media offices and 2 democrat senators.
he includes 2 notes (1 sent to media and 1 to the senators)
#1
09-11-01
THIS IS NEXT
TAKE PENACILIN NOW
DEATH TO AMERICA
DEATH TO ISRAEL
ALLAH IS GREAT
#2
09-11-01
YOU CAN NOT STOP US.
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX.
YOU DIE NOW.
ARE YOU AFRAID?
DEATH TO AMERICA.
DEATH TO ISRAEL.
ALLAH IS GREAT.
well geeze I guess this guy was so crazy, and so in love with the war in the middle east, that he took it upon himself to risk everything to pretend he is some terrorists.
he then waits 7 years, and then right before he is about to be formally prosecuted and investigated, he commits suicide. cuz he's so crazy.
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United States22883 Posts
It just strikes me that all of these things are done in such an unprofessional manner.
Cover ups do happen. One of the creators is that site is Kristina Borjesson who has done great work going after media institutions and the fucked up things they do, but she did it while publishing an award winning book and doing Emmy/Murrow winning work on CBS and PBS. That's how you present this kind of stuff, not with a .info page that covers every conspiracy theory known to man.
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On August 04 2008 08:12 ahrara_ wrote:
I don't think you even realize how much your behavior contradicts what you're saying. Jibba has been trying to argue with you respectfully and you just laugh at his face and respond with one liners like he was a piece of shit :|. You also demand that we read your evidence (I did) but then you ignore his.
stop saying untrue things. I have demanded nothing. I do ask that you read the page IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY TO REFUTE IT.
this site replies directly to each "theory" that popular mechanics "debunks"
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
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United States22883 Posts
There are SERIOUS holes in what's going on with the Anthrax thing, you're absolutely right about that. I suspect in the next year we will be knowing a great deal more. But that doesn't immediately justify all the other theories that have been popping up over the last 7 years. If you jump on enough bandwagons, eventually you're going to pick the right one.
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Well anyways travis, it seems you'll have to wait for the whole thing to go "watergate" ;
If it does ~,
in order to pull out the "I told you so's " ; for the whole "seeing is believing" deal D: ( which i'm guilty of , but is that really being close-minded ? )
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eh I will just stop I don't want to say the wrong things
I will say that I do not actually believe the majority of people who even click and read the links actually THINK about them.
I think alot of you must click the links, and then skim the article while in your head saying "no that couldn't happen" or "that doesn't make sense", without giving any real thought to any of it.
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dang missed the ninja edit by about a minute
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.tripsmarter.com/travelcommunity/attachments/pcb-spring-break/3050d1196163734-spring-break-08-grammar-nazi2.jpg)
