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On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point.
WRONG
I forced no one to click and read this blog post.
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On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post.
If that's how you want to interpret my statement when the intentions behind the post is obviously pointing to your forceful and abrasive language, then so be it.
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On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post.
And yet no one forced you to make this post, please stop with the childish slander and let's get back on topic
Putting the way the OP was presented aside,
You are still basing your facts on a case that is still in process and allegations by nitpicking every "single leads or assumptions about evidence on the chance that inadequate attention had been paid, beforehand ..." "...we have yet to see exactly the breakthroughs" that are , so far, unsupported ... ( by the videos you have portrayed as your leading points )
All unsupported coincidences, sure they are fishy, anything can be fishy when you point it out IMO, but the fact that they go without backing and without "thorough totality of evidence " , IMO, you have no right to criticize other peoples beliefs, right or wrong as they may be.
Don't get me wrong . . if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and acts like a duck, generally it is, ( regarding the conspiracy ) and i am a pretty open- minded to conspiracy theories ; but that's what they are, theories until proven otherwise.
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On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post.
I think what he was trying to say is that you're a hypocrite for accusing other people of being close minded and condescending when you're doing the same thing.
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I don't really think this has to do with closed-mindedness, I just don't see anything EVER in all those theories that add up even in the slightest bit.
Besides it doesn't even make it more likely in my eyes. Who says that they didn't just use 9/11 as an excuse and sent out the anthrax and blamed it on the terrorists? Doesn't mean they had anything to do with 9/11. No real leader sacrifies 50000 innocent people like that just to fund some half asssed assassinations.
I really hope this is some kind of parody thread because you come across as pretty insane Travis. Wake up to what? I don't think you're any smarter than me and I doubt I overlooked any facts about this whole thing. It's just way more likely that this anthrax stuff was a reaction to 9/11 instead of a part of 1 big plan.
Even if it was connected to 9/11, it makes the whole conspiracy more unlikely to me because the whole plan is extremely flawed. And you don't make a flawed plan on purpose just so people will think it couldn't have been the government, that's too risky.
Why do you want to believe this so badly lol, most people just look at what's there and come to conclusions instead of looking at things that aren't there, you're just fooling yourself.
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On August 04 2008 06:45 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:35 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:30 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Not quite genocide but good point. 1.) not at all genocide 2.) where was the good point? actually, since it wasn't genocide, where was the point at all? The point was they cant keep shit quiet. You REALLY think they could have orchestrated 9/11 and not have someone talk?
obviously I do. do you have any idea how many covert missions the cia has done? and how often do their operatives talk?? THEY ARE TRAINED NOT TO.
read. there is a ton to read, so much information, so much evidence.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
actually look at what those people say. look at the positions they held, how much expertise they should have.
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United States42693 Posts
I don't buy the "terrorists hate our freedom so they attack us" argument. It's far too simple. However just adding one level of complexity makes little sense. The Government carried out 9/11 to create support for the war in Iraq to earn them money? Way too simple. I think Muslim extremists carried out the attacks in order to create support for the war in Iraq in order to make America intensely unpopular in the middle east and therefore create huge amounts of support for Muslim extremism in the region. You have to ask yourself who the real benefitors of 9/11 to find out who was behind it and the answer is Osama. Need any more proof? Osama hated Saddam. By committing 9/11 he caused the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent death of Saddam.
Easy proof.
Of course we could add another level of complexity. You see the Jews used Osama to use the Government of America to start a global ideological conflict in which the state of Israel is an important ally and therefore richly rewarded. Furthermore the conflict benefits Jewish financiers and by being on the side of America they get regional supremacy without actually having to pay for it, nor even have to fight for it. The destruction of the enemies of Israel, paid for by the American taxpayer with the profits going to the Jews. It's so simple.
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Whereas being completely condescending, i don't think he ever criticized anyone for doing that( being condescending that is )
His apparent bias , isn't being ....completely close- minded, I'm sure if we discuss the matter in a somewhat civilized way ; he can give a little credence and we can come up with a agreement or compromise.
He seems like an intelligent person , perhaps some very heated arguments ( he's done before ) not experienced before by us , have created a strong tension in this thread , we can't judge him off the bat , (not being in his shoes , per se ).
Although the comments / replys he's posted in this thread are generally in agreement to the allegations against him ...
We can only see :O ; in other words i await this discussion/debate and hope it's in a more conservative manner of speaking; however liberal this topic may be.
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On August 04 2008 06:50 HeavOnEarth wrote:more like a cauldron/pot imo, kettle is too small  i mean ,seriously, i would've been in 100% total agreement with the OP ; if he had not come off with the "fuck you, close minded people" as an obvious attention grabber/ "although" it properly showcases how BM the general post was( if thats even a plus or anything ) Anyways, obviously, Travis is going to be on everyone that posts any negative aspects about the OP so with reclined hesitation and trepidation i hit ye' dreadful "Post" button
people don't actually read. they just come in, state their ignorant bullshit opinions, don't educate theirselves at all. I am trying a different approach.
I have had people who disagree with me about this and I come out respecting them. But let me tell you, there is no way I will come out respecting you if you deny that it is even possible
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On August 04 2008 07:00 micronesia wrote:
Hm... I get annoyed when people criticize you for not agreeing with them. If I don't believe that the government was behind 9/11, then I should wake up? Maybe I haven't been exposed to the same compelling evidence as someone else. The same goes the other way. If someone says to me it's obvious there was no conspiracy, I don't feel obligated to immediately agree or take a stance 100%.
I'm pretty sure the OP was targeting people who are much more polarized than me though.
yes, I was.
I never meant "wake up, agree with me".
I mean "wake up, open your eyes to possibility and stop being an ignorant pussy"
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On August 04 2008 07:20 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 06:50 HeavOnEarth wrote:more like a cauldron/pot imo, kettle is too small i mean ,seriously, i would've been in 100% total agreement with the OP ; if he had not come off with the "fuck you, close minded people" as an obvious attention grabber/ "although" it properly showcases how BM the general post was( if thats even a plus or anything ) Anyways, obviously, Travis is going to be on everyone that posts any negative aspects about the OP so with reclined hesitation and trepidation i hit ye' dreadful "Post" button people don't actually read. they just come in, state their ignorant bullshit opinions, don't educate theirselves at all. I am trying a different approach. I have had people who disagree with me about this and I come out respecting them. But let me tell you, there is no way I will come out respecting you if you deny that it is even possible
Oh , i'm sorry for the mis understanding, of course it's possible,
hell, the "coincidences" and all the "unlikely timings" merely just point out how true it is,
but still it's still .. "up in the air" with no completely proof so i wouldn't go as far to " put my foot down"
as you have , rather hard.. i must say.
"
people don't actually read. they just come in, state their ignorant bullshit opinions, don't educate theirselves at all. I am trying a different approach.
"
I must admit, if you hadn't done... all the gimmicks in your OP i wouldn't have watched the videos and/or even replied with anything other than , "wow that post was rather annoying to read" as people are basically doing ( don't blame them )
Was that your main incentive for posting like that? O_o
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Or, alternatively, had Travis not worded the OP in a way that didn't marginalize his point, then he would've received what looks to be general agreement, rather than skepticism and annoyance. I don't think anyone in the thread has yet to say that "There is absolutely zero possibility that the government was involved in 9/11", but rather, the overall view seems to be arching in the direction of "logically, the evidences and the perception of how the government works and acts speak against the possibility".
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On August 04 2008 07:08 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. If that's how you want to interpret my statement when the intentions behind the post is obviously pointing to your forceful and abrasive language, then so be it.
my bad. I really didn't understand what you meant.
anyways, the point is presenting the case in a different way. I figured maybe the "forceful" language could convince some people to actually read some of the damn links
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On August 04 2008 07:08 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. And yet no one forced you to make this post, please stop with the childish slander and let's get back on topic
there was no childish slander.
Putting the way the OP was presented aside,
You are still basing your facts on a case that is still in process and allegations by nitpicking every "single leads or assumptions about evidence on the chance that inadequate attention had been paid, beforehand ..." "...we have yet to see exactly the breakthroughs" that are , so far, unsupported ... ( by the videos you have portrayed as your leading points )
All unsupported coincidences, sure they are fishy, anything can be fishy when you point it out IMO, but the fact that they go without backing and without "thorough totality of evidence " , IMO, you have no right to criticize other peoples beliefs, right or wrong as they may be.
Don't get me wrong . . if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and acts like a duck, generally it is, ( regarding the conspiracy ) and i am a pretty open- minded to conspiracy theories ; but that's what they are, theories until proven otherwise.
I didn't say otherwise! But they will never be proven without people actively pushing for a real investigation. There is no reason any of this information should be hidden!
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On August 04 2008 07:12 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. I think what he was trying to say is that you're a hypocrite for accusing other people of being close minded and condescending when you're doing the same thing.
hardly. I am perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong (though there would still be so many unanswered questions!)
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On August 04 2008 07:33 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:08 HeavOnEarth wrote:On August 04 2008 07:06 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:43 Ecael wrote:On August 04 2008 06:37 travis wrote:On August 04 2008 06:33 intrigue wrote:
and yet there are an astounding number of intelligent people who feel as confident about their differing viewpoint as you do. hell, a lot of them post here too with caps, italics and bolded letters, everyone thinking they're the only enlightened ones in the whole fucking world.
why is everyone such a huge douchebag about this stuff because I don't deny possibility. I don't tell people that there is no way im wrong. I don't choose purposeful ignorance. That causes way more suffering in the world than being a douchebag to people who refuse to even look at things from a different viewpoint. Kettle, pot. I don't see how trying to force them to see your light, however right it might be, is better than people refusing to see reality. You might not have choose ignorance, but in shoving that decision of yours onto others you are no different from them. If you presented the case with a less abrasive manner perhaps you would've convinced some people, in trying to shove it into others' faces you simply ruined your own point. WRONG I forced no one to click and read this blog post. And yet no one forced you to make this post, please stop with the childish slander and let's get back on topic there was no childish slander. Show nested quote +
Putting the way the OP was presented aside,
You are still basing your facts on a case that is still in process and allegations by nitpicking every "single leads or assumptions about evidence on the chance that inadequate attention had been paid, beforehand ..." "...we have yet to see exactly the breakthroughs" that are , so far, unsupported ... ( by the videos you have portrayed as your leading points )
All unsupported coincidences, sure they are fishy, anything can be fishy when you point it out IMO, but the fact that they go without backing and without "thorough totality of evidence " , IMO, you have no right to criticize other peoples beliefs, right or wrong as they may be.
Don't get me wrong . . if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and acts like a duck, generally it is, ( regarding the conspiracy ) and i am a pretty open- minded to conspiracy theories ; but that's what they are, theories until proven otherwise.
I didn't say otherwise! But they will never be proven without people actively pushing for a real investigation. There is no reason any of this information should be hidden!
Well i sincerely doubt TL is going to make much of a difference in politics and especially how government run things
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United States22883 Posts
On August 04 2008 07:22 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2008 07:00 micronesia wrote:
Hm... I get annoyed when people criticize you for not agreeing with them. If I don't believe that the government was behind 9/11, then I should wake up? Maybe I haven't been exposed to the same compelling evidence as someone else. The same goes the other way. If someone says to me it's obvious there was no conspiracy, I don't feel obligated to immediately agree or take a stance 100%.
I'm pretty sure the OP was targeting people who are much more polarized than me though. yes, I was. I never meant "wake up, agree with me". I mean "wake up, open your eyes to possibility and stop being an ignorant pussy"
You haven't shown that there's a possibility. The coverage of the scientist and court testimony have pointed to him being a crazy person. Of course you're going to respond that it's a government cover up, but again there's no proof. You've got leaky motives, by which could be used to construe nearly any group as complicit to 9/11 or any other event in history.
Look at the link you posted. I'm not going to bother checking the sources for all of their quotes, but I did check the first two and they point out problems with the commission, but nothing implying conspiracy within the Pentagon, CIA or FBI. Their first blurb from Senator Cleland is mostly bullshit propagandizing. The Commission had an agreement to access the daily White House briefings, dating back to Clinton's administration, and as part of the deal to gain access they were not allowed to share that information.
Another problem of yours is that the websites and videos you keep linking us do as much twisting of information as a regular Fox News broadcast.
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Im sorry if this seems blunt but isn't your view just as close minded as those you are giving the bird too?
You have no more access to confidential information than those people do so how can you know this with such certainty? Maybe you did not mean to come across so closed minded but you did, and i kinda seems like you just want everyone to believe you and your ideals
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On August 04 2008 07:15 Frits wrote:
I don't really think this has to do with closed-mindedness, I just don't see anything EVER in all those theories that add up even in the slightest bit.
what does that even mean.
world trade center 7 collapsed. there was no reason for it to collapse. that has never been explained. so how does that "not add up".
Besides it doesn't even make it more likely in my eyes. Who says that they didn't just use 9/11 as an excuse and sent out the anthrax and blamed it on the terrorists?
no one! but if that was the case, would it make it more or less likely that they are deceiving us about 9/11?
Doesn't mean they had anything to do with 9/11. No real leader sacrifies 50000 innocent people like that just to fund some half asssed assassinations.
....... think. THINK. who is our president.
I really hope this is some kind of parody thread because you come across as pretty insane Travis. Wake up to what?
I come off as insane? What did I say that does not make sense.
I don't think you're any smarter than me and I doubt I overlooked any facts about this whole thing.
I don't think I give a shit about which one of us is smarter and I doubt either of us could educate ourselves on this topic without overlooking some facts.
It's just way more likely that this anthrax stuff was a reaction to 9/11 instead of a part of 1 big plan.
That is your opinion. I don't see how it's relevant whether or not the 2 events were initially part of the same plan.
Even if it was connected to 9/11, it makes the whole conspiracy more unlikely to me because the whole plan is extremely flawed.
then why the fuck are we in iraq right now
And you don't make a flawed plan on purpose just so people will think it couldn't have been the government, that's too risky.
Why do you want to believe this so badly lol, most people just look at what's there and come to conclusions instead of looking at things that aren't there, you're just fooling yourself.
I am a fan of the truth.
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