EPT
Woes of being random
| Blogs > randomKo_Orean |
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Elric
United Kingdom1327 Posts
This way you don't get as bored playing the same race and you don't get banned all the time. :S | ||
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tracer
Korea (South)693 Posts
On August 03 2008 02:55 Elric_ wrote: Maybe before you join a room you roll a dice. 1-2=T, 3-4=P, 5-6=Z. This way you don't get as bored playing the same race and you don't get banned all the time. :S That's actually a really good idea. The only reason you wouldn't want to do this is if you WANT your opponent to have the disadvantage of not knowing your race (which is pretty pussy). | ||
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
It's one o fthe perks of being random. What's being pussy is dodging just cause you have to ALTER your build for a few seconds. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
The only reason you wouldn't want to do this is if you WANT your opponent to have the disadvantage of not knowing your race (which is pretty pussy). If the advantage gained from being random were that great, I'm pretty sure all pro's would be random, all top foreigner's would be random etc. Unless there's some rule against playing random in StarLeagues that I'm unaware of. In any case, random players choose random because they love the game and they like to play every aspect of it. Most random players won't even try to cheese you if the match up is zvz. That said, it's exactly for the OPs argument that I simply stopped playing random. You pretty much have to be with friends for them to let you play random, or you get bitched out... Even with dumbasses going "CHOOSE YOUR BEST RACE, CHOOSE YOUR BEST RACE" "... my best is random..." "NO, CHOOSE YOUR BEST" because they simply don't get that being random is different from choosing a race, not just because you could cheese your opponent if they don't choose random, but because no one wants to cheese you either. | ||
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
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HighTimes
Taiwan342 Posts
 Of course, nothing beats RvR! Oh, and why don't you just create your own game? just state that you're random in the gamename. But then again... there are douchebags, who join without reading and then quit after game has started... God, I hate that! | ||
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
What makes me laugh even more than the "no ran" crowd is the people that choose R, but ONLY when you choose R. It's like they think they're getting some sort of advantage. I ALREADY PLAY RANDOM...you DON'T. You choosing random gives ME the advantage, NOT YOU. You getting an off-race is a lot more beneficial to me than me having to scout 15 seconds earlier is an advantage to you. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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RO.Word
United Kingdom62 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 03:42 thedeadhaji wrote: im not going to play vs random when i'm practicing, simple as that. QFT I go to iCCup to practice/to get better. The possibility to play vs cheese with a random player is pretty high. Plus factor in the fact that your on iCCup.. I'd be shocked to find both a: 1) non-cheese game. 2) actual GG (due to the fact that they are probably not that good at all races Both of which I hope for when I try to get practice games in. EDIT: If it's a remake (and my oppoent picked in the first game) I think it would be kind of rude to deny him of a second shot with whatever race he/she wants. Also I'm going to play paranoid because angry loser + random probably won't be a GG combo :p | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
"NO T" "NO Z" "NO P" "NO RAN" No StarCraft. Great players of old were Randomers. Liquid Drone, Episode French, Testie... All with their fair share of amazing replays... Refusing to play Random because it's different is like refusing to play BroodWar... Just learn to play the new matchups. Or at least when we say "ok, choose my race," don't ban. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 03:54 Valentine wrote: QFT I go to iCCup to practice/to get better. The possibility to play vs cheese with a random player is pretty high. Plus factor in the fact that your on iCCup.. I'd be shocked to find both a: 1) non-cheese game. 2) actual GG (due to the fact that they are probably not that good at all races Both of which I hope for when I try to get practice games in. EDIT: If it's a remake (and my oppoent picked in the first game) I think it would be kind of rude to deny him of a second shot with whatever race he/she wants. Also I'm going to play paranoid because angry loser + random probably won't be a GG combo :p You have friends to practice against, you don't need to ladder to get practice. Playing against random people isn't as good for practice as people you know anyway. You can play them over and over again, and there can be discussion afterwards. So if you go to iCCup and your opponent goes R, yeah I guess you can leave the game or flame him but I kind of think that means you're a pussy. | ||
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tracer
Korea (South)693 Posts
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:18 Hypnosis wrote: When i play against random i just 14 cc and lose. I think I've lost every PvR game I've ever played. | ||
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Ideas
United States8080 Posts
I just always feel conned when the guy hits go and then i realize 1 second before the game starts that he hasn't picked a race lol. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11549 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:26 FragKrag wrote: I ban randoms because I don't want to have to deal with that stupid shit when I'm trying to get better. What's with this? As I said, try to get better against people you know. I'm pretty sure the point of a ladder is to determine skill level, not to help you advance yours. Yeah that's a side effect, but to me banning someone because they play random or any particular race you don't want to play to me is like banning someone because their win record is too good. It's dodging, and in my opinion, abuse. I hope that in SC2 Battle.net the auto-matchmaking system doesn't allow for this kind of BS, and it's a shame that the current one does. Of course I can't blame you too much, because you're allowed to do it currently, and it's not really considered "abuse" by the admins (though I think it should be, they just don't have time to deal with it). If you can't play well versus random, you deserve to lose versus players who go random. Get over it. | ||
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
"No toss." I pick terran. Ban. WTF | ||
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:40 anderoo wrote: Last season I played a guy who exclusively played PvZ on Nemesis, adn then just 9-9 gated every game. That map is such a tempting 12 hatch... I looked at his game history, and he was like, C-rank, every game Nemesis, and most games under 10 mins long. How could he possibly be having fun? Yeah srsly, this is more extreme than I ever could imagine. On the one hand, I think it would be easier in SC2 if when you made an account you chose your ladder race, and than in any match made game you just had that race and your opponent had their race, and leaving the game was a loss. On the other hand, some people are race pickers. I guess for tournaments they could still be race pickers, but the BS of people only playing certain races is so annoying. It's so annoying when someone leaves them game when the countdown is at 2 seconds and I can't cancel. Edit: It's not THAT annoying, just when it happens 3 or 4 times in a row I'm like -_X | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:02 Ancestral wrote: You have friends to practice against, you don't need to ladder to get practice. Playing against random people isn't as good for practice as people you know anyway. You can play them over and over again, and there can be discussion afterwards. I can find plenty of pple to disagree with you on this. At least for me, ladder is practice and playing with friends is affirmation of said practice. 'Friends' are rarely online when you want to practice, while ladder is always active and available for you to play. Friend games tend to degenerate into 1v1 obs games where you only play 1 game every hour if you're lucky. It is certainly not ideal practice conditions. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
But on the other hand, the bahavior of asking for a particular race by the game maker can be interpreted as wanting ideal practice in the matchup. It's a matter of perspective. A frustrated random player who gets kicked from games repeatedly? -> current icc is full of abusers and pussies. Anyone else? Meh, w/e dude wants a pvt, let him have a pvt. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
I think ladders should be match made also, so you can only thumbs-down a certain number of maps, and you have to play whatever race your math made opponent uses (up to and including R). This way, they most truly represent the skill of people who play in them because you have to be well rounded. But clearly anyone has the right to disagree with this ideal, and I guess on ladders people will keep playing R, people will keep banning R players, and R players will keep complaining about it. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 05:04 thedeadhaji wrote: I can see why you argue agaisnt the current icc system, which allows that i map 1 matchup abuse for those who choose it, matchup picking, etc. But on the other hand, the bahavior of asking for a particular race by the game maker can be interpreted as wanting ideal practice in the matchup. It's a matter of perspective. A frustrated random player who gets kicked from games repeatedly? -> current icc is full of abusers and pussies. Anyone else? Meh, w/e dude wants a pvt, let him have a pvt. Didn't see this post. If you make a game saying "P only me T" or whatever you do, I suppose that is okay because both players are agreeing to something. That gets good practice in. But unless it says "No R" or "No (x)" I don't think it's very WM to ban people from it. I didn't consider asking for a certain matchup but I don't have a problem with it. Edit: As long as you don't always make one game "BlueStorm P only me T" 100% of the time, but I'm guessing people would catch on before you made it to A+ with one matchup and one map. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
But it really seems to me (and perhaps others) that ICCUP is a place that is geared towards practice rather than organized competition? Yea I know that sounds somewhat odd since ladder by definition is competition, but I think most people play ICC to get games w/o being bothered and find their proper rank, rather than necessarily reaching the top of the ladder. And when you want to practice, it makes more sense to ask for exactly what you want to practice, be it the map or the matchup. I think the cause of our differences in opinion is that you're arguing for the ladder to be a place of pure competition, while I'm arguing that iccup in particular is a place for practice rather than pure competition. edit: yea not writing "no R" or w/e, then banning after they say "i'm R" is quite bm  Oddly, even though I'm arguing agianst R somewhat, when I make ladder games on icc I hardly ever ban anyone, including R's. I'll just ask and make sure they're R, not last minute race picking TT. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
So it's definitely a good place to practice as well as try to get as far as you can. And I think adding "No R" wouldn't be very hard, but then not many people play R so it's not something you'd think about. Maybe R players should just host games and always say "1v1 Andromeda me R" or whatever they please. Other than that, as I said, I guess you'll have to get banned a lot and make a blog complaining about it, which to me seems perfectly righteous. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
On August 03 2008 02:58 tracer wrote: That's actually a really good idea. The only reason you wouldn't want to do this is if you WANT your opponent to have the disadvantage of not knowing your race (which is pretty pussy). Well it's only fair though. If you have to practice 3 times as many match-ups and your opponent knows your race then you're at a disadvantage. Playing P against random Z can be a huge disadvantage on some maps though. Almost to the point to where P must guess if their opponent is P/T or Z. And generally you'd guess they are P or T since the same build will work vs either race but vs Z you need a very different opening BO. Like Longinus for example. If you 2 gate you're fucked vs walling T. If you forge first you're probably screwed vs player of equal skill if they are P or T. If you 1 gate fighting 9 pool speed is almost impossible vs good micro. edit: Instead of being a victim in PvR I try to be offensive and just proxy 9/9 gate (works on longi, python, and other maps.) I think often times random players assume they won't be cheesed since their opponent doesn't know what race they're up against but 9/9 gate works vs a variety of different races builds. It sucks vs some stuff like if they 10/12 gate and can micro or if they get a wall up in time. | ||
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nAi.PrOtOsS
Canada784 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
If you don't think iCCup should allow random players to play, because of various perceived imbalances (because really, they are imaginary when you consider experience), then make a request to the ladder to force everyone to choose a race. If you don't think they're gonna do that, then guess what? Seriously, we might as well have separate ladders for every match up if there were really a demand for practicing and getting good at just one match up. The fact is there isn't, and it's just a bunch of douche bags at D and C level who just want to jerk off to their pathetic rank instead of playing the game. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Yea i dont play random on iccup, because well they ALWAYS cheese. If they get terran they proxy rax and mm rush, if they get P then they proxy gates and rush, and if there zerg they 4/5/7 pool. If it's ALWAYS, why not just play safe and scout and get a free win to get you to a higher rank where people stop being able to win with pure cheese? You're wrong. Protoss cheese way more than any random player. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:30 Ancestral wrote: What's with this? As I said, try to get better against people you know. I'm pretty sure the point of a ladder is to determine skill level, not to help you advance yours. Yeah that's a side effect, but to me banning someone because they play random or any particular race you don't want to play to me is like banning someone because their win record is too good. It's dodging, and in my opinion, abuse. I hope that in SC2 Battle.net the auto-matchmaking system doesn't allow for this kind of BS, and it's a shame that the current one does. Of course I can't blame you too much, because you're allowed to do it currently, and it's not really considered "abuse" by the admins (though I think it should be, they just don't have time to deal with it). If you can't play well versus random, you deserve to lose versus players who go random. Get over it. What. I really cant even understand how you came about thinking that laddering is not to get better? Only to find out where you rank? Seriously, what? | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
I really cant even understand how you came about thinking that laddering is not to get better? Only to find out where you rank? Seriously, what? Reread what you said. That's exactly what it is. Because of an innate human curiosity to know who is best, and how you compare to them. Getting better is a bi-product of playing games, and is not the primary function of a ladder (or no one would care so much about their record that they actually ban people in matchups they suck at). | ||
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sillyboy_tomato
United States157 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 08:22 PsycHOTemplar wrote: Reread what you said. That's exactly what it is. Because of an innate human curiosity to know who is best, and how you compare to them. Getting better is a bi-product of playing games, and is not the primary function of a ladder (or no one would care so much about their record that they actually ban people in matchups they suck at). 1) I don't care about my record 2) I don't suck against random 3) I do play iCCup to get better | ||
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NrG.ZaM
United States267 Posts
It's ridiculous to say improvement is a by-product of a ladder. It's the entire purpose, unless it's for a special occasion like TSL, where good players could play enough to wedge themselves in the top 48 and then quit. If ladders were only about finding out how good you are, you wouldn't ever see players with 300+ games played in a season, they would have found their peak long before that and quit playing. Why did they keep playing, then? To get better. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
1) I don't care about my record 2) I don't suck against random 3) I do play iCCup to get better If you don't care about finding out how good you are, and you're just playing games to get better, why not join a clan and mass game all day instead of abusing a ladder to fulfil your purposes and making it unpleasant for anyone who wants to use it for what it's for? Why do you have to be such a prick to people who just want to use the ladder and play random? Why did they keep playing, then Probably to inch their way to the next rank, since you gain more points than you lose. A matter of seeing if they could do it. It's also an easy way to find games if you're not in a clan, so you might as well play your regular games on the ladder too, since you're (supposed) to be guaranteed someone your skill level. That doesn't mean you're not a piece of shit for banning anyone who doesn't want to play the specific match up you're interested in. If you want to do that, find some place else because it makes the ladder experience unpleasant for everyone else (which is my whole argument here). I don't care if you want to use the ladder to mass game and get better, no one does. If it makes you happy and it doesn't hurt anyone, by all means. But the fact is you're banning people, and making it harder for them to join games, degrading their experience, and generally being a pain in the ass. That is hurting someone, and I don't care if it does fulfil your personal motives  | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Honestly I find that playing friends and comparing how I do and how I perform vs them over a period of time is a much better barometer of improvement than ladder ranks, especially considering the standard of rank and skill on the ladder is highly variable these days. I'm sorry dude but it's increasingly seeming like you are making these arguments (in a combative tone no less) simply because you are pissed that the ladder players keep banning you for being random and you're not pleased with your experience - hence justifying what the ladder SHOULD be like, which in turn would serve your own needs well. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 09:00 PsycHOTemplar wrote: If you don't care about finding out how good you are, and you're just playing games to get better, why not join a clan and mass game all day instead of abusing a ladder to fulfil your purposes and making it unpleasant for anyone who wants to use it for what it's for? Why do you have to be such a prick to people who just want to use the ladder and play random? Probably to inch their way to the next rank, since you gain more points than you lose. A matter of seeing if they could do it. It's also an easy way to find games if you're not in a clan, so you might as well play your regular games on the ladder too, since you're (supposed) to be guaranteed someone your skill level. That doesn't mean you're not a piece of shit for banning anyone who doesn't want to play the specific match up you're interested in. If you want to do that, find some place else because it makes the ladder experience unpleasant for everyone else (which is my whole argument here). I don't care if you want to use the ladder to mass game and get better, no one does. If it makes you happy and it doesn't hurt anyone, by all means. But the fact is you're banning people, and making it harder for them to join games, degrading their experience, and generally being a pain in the ass. That is hurting someone, and I don't care if it does fulfil your personal motives First of all, I'm in a clan, and enjoy playing games with my clanmates. But are there always people online every hour of every day? No. Sometimes you have to go outside of your clan believe it or not to play a game. Second of all, who the fuck are you to say what the ladder was meant for. You didn't create it and you certainly don't have the only opinion on it's usage, so don't say I'm not using it for it's true meaning. Third of all, why do you have to be such a prick to people who want to use the ladder to get better, and this includes playing the matchups you want to improve. Sometimes you don't have a Zerg teammate online willing to play 10 games in a row with you. Guess I'll just sit in the channel or join a new clan since I would be abusing the system if I tried to play TvZ exclusively on a ladder. On August 03 2008 09:15 thedeadhaji wrote: you're out of your mind insisting that ladder is not for improving in skill level and serves only as a barometer. Honestly I find that playing friends and comparing how I do and how I perform vs them over a period of time is a much better barometer of improvement than ladder ranks, especially considering the standard of rank and skill on the ladder is highly variable these days. I'm sorry dude but it's increasingly seeming like you are making these arguments (in a combative tone no less) simply because you are pissed that the ladder players keep banning you for being random and you're not pleased with your experience - hence justifying what the ladder SHOULD be like, which in turn would serve your own needs well. Agreed. It seems like his arguments spawned purely from just being angry at being banned, and thus found his own meaning for what a ladder should be about. | ||
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NrG.ZaM
United States267 Posts
Probably to inch their way to the next rank, since you gain more points than you lose. That only happens at the lower ranks, where it isn't so much a competetive ladder, but a breeding ground for practice games, which you're so adamantly saying aren't existent on ladders, so I guess I'll concede that point to you. That doesn't mean you're not a piece of shit for banning anyone who doesn't want to play the specific match up you're interested in. Well shit, if you want the ability to pick what you play against completely removed, so people can no longer willingly practice against a certain race, why don't we just make it mandatory that every player has to be random? That also takes care of those bastard race pickers who's race depends on their opponents! But the fact is you're banning people, and making it harder for them to join games, degrading their experience, and generally being a pain in the ass. That is hurting someone, and I don't care if it does fulfil your personal motives There came a certain point in playing on ICCup that I realized something, and you might find this out eventually too. Oftentimes, people are complete idiots. Simple as that. Even if you put "zerg only" or "I'm random" into a game title, they wouldn't read it, just as when you say "D+" or "C-" the D and D- players come in anyway. People just don't read the game names. And I really don't see why you're attacking me about banning people, I don't do that anyway, and in no way indicated that I do. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
", at which point I saw the game name on the top right, said sry i didnt read it , and left. I guess that would be the more courteous thing to do. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On August 03 2008 04:30 Ancestral wrote: What's with this? As I said, try to get better against people you know. I'm pretty sure the point of a ladder is to determine skill level, not to help you advance yours. Yeah that's a side effect, but to me banning someone because they play random or any particular race you don't want to play to me is like banning someone because their win record is too good. It's dodging, and in my opinion, abuse. I hope that in SC2 Battle.net the auto-matchmaking system doesn't allow for this kind of BS, and it's a shame that the current one does. Of course I can't blame you too much, because you're allowed to do it currently, and it's not really considered "abuse" by the admins (though I think it should be, they just don't have time to deal with it). If you can't play well versus random, you deserve to lose versus players who go random. Get over it. I agree 100% with this. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Falcynn
United States3597 Posts
In reality it doesn't affect much, but imagining them acting all smug in front of their computer thinking that they pulled a fast one on me just pisses me off. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
And I really don't see why you're attacking me about banning people, I don't do that anyway, and in no way indicated that I do. Who are you arguing with then? Did you read the OP? That only happens at the lower ranks, where it isn't so much a competetive ladder, but a breeding ground for practice games, which you're so adamantly saying aren't existent on ladders, so I guess I'll concede that point to you. I didn't know this, but at least up to B+ with MOTW you do... After which you're getting games with the best, so you might as well play on the ladder... But if you get to a level that high, it's probably not because you're practicing a single match up and dodging 3 out of 4 games. PS: To those of you who said I'm only arguing because I'm annoyed... Of course I am. Why else would I argue the point lol? Because I was indifferent? My experience on the ladder has been degraded, so I'm putting my two cents in to help raise awareness a little Whether or not anyone cares or listens is something I haven't given conscious thought. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
The slightest advantage that R gets over me in the earliest stages of the game doesnt really bother me. However, I'm not playing icc to practice vs random so taht's really where the argument ends. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 09:56 randomKo_Orean wrote: So guys. Give me concrete reasons why you REFUSE to play random (unless versus a friend) 1) To practice That's all i've gotten from 3 pages of bickering. Meet On August 03 2008 03:54 Valentine wrote: QFT I go to iCCup to practice/to get better. The possibility to play vs cheese with a random player is pretty high. Plus factor in the fact that your on iCCup.. I'd be shocked to find both a: 1) non-cheese game. 2) actual GG (due to the fact that they are probably not that good at all races Both of which I hope for when I try to get practice games in. EDIT: If it's a remake (and my oppoent picked in the first game) I think it would be kind of rude to deny him of a second shot with whatever race he/she wants. Also I'm going to play paranoid because angry loser + random probably won't be a GG combo :p Those really are my only concrete reasons, and I don't see why I would need any more than that. ~~~~~~~~ And it's the dodging that's the problem - "omg no random you have advantage" touch shit kid, I gotta practice 3 times as much to get to your level (theoretically) Oh yeah, btw, random IS allowed in KeSPA, it's just that it's impossible to practice 3 times as much as others. I never said I dodge because random has an advantage. That's simply not why I do it, so your argument doesn't really apply to me. And yeah, I don't think anyone said random wasn't allowed in KeSPA games or ever even mentioned it (although I only skimmed through this thread quickly aside from the obvious rage-posts from random players). But yeah, that's precisely why I don't play random: having to practice 3 times as much. It's your own choice to do so, so I don't see it fitting anywhere in this argument either. ~~~~~~~~ On August 03 2008 10:02 PsycHOTemplar wrote: Who are you arguing with then? Did you read the OP? I didn't know this, but at least up to B+ with MOTW you do... After which you're getting games with the best, so you might as well play on the ladder... But if you get to a level that high, it's probably not because you're practicing a single match up and dodging 3 out of 4 games. PS: To those of you who said I'm only arguing because I'm annoyed... Of course I am. Why else would I argue the point lol? Because I was indifferent? My experience on the ladder has been degraded, so I'm putting my two cents in to help raise awareness a little Whether or not anyone cares or listens is something I haven't given conscious thought.Well shit bro I don't have a problem with playing vs random players. I kind of have to play vs random players in ClanWars etc. I would play them on iCCup if the vast majority of these players were not going to cheese and just end with a quick game, because as I have stated so many times before, I play for improvement, not some shiny new rank to show off. If I know someone legitimately is a random player and is looking to practice then fuck hit me up and ill mass play you on iCCup. But what I'm avoiding is someone who just picks random so he can BBS/99gate/4pool and luck his way out within 6 minutes. Win or loss I don't care because thats not why I'm playing the ladder. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 03 2008 10:49 PsycHOTemplar wrote: I said it. I wasn't sure whether or not Pros are allowed to go random or not (as an argument that even without knowing my race, you're still at an advantage cause wouldn't all, or at least some pros be randomers if it were such an advantage? Yeah, it's purely the fact that the practice time it takes to get to/remain at that level is too great to make up for the very small advantage you get at the beginning of the game, which may or may not pay off during the game anyway. It's just simply not worth it. The only thing KeSPA doesn't allow (as far as I know) is not having your opponent know what race you will play 1 week prior to the upcoming match, for preparation reasons. You can play any race (including Random) regardless of your "main". Like how Savior played Terran on Desperado [I think this was the map] against GoRush regardless of the fact that he is obviously Zerg main. As long as your opponent knows during the practice time, it's all cool :p On August 03 2008 10:56 thedeadhaji wrote: some pros used to be randomers in the early days (2000-2001), iirc Grrr was random before sticking with P? Some others as well too, Chrh may have been random as well. I'm not sure if anyone in this particular thread cited the random advantage as the reason they dont play vs random on iccup, but I'd imagine those pple arent a part of the current state of the discussion. Yeah, and you can definately identify the cause of there not being any professional Random players as the vast skill difference between 2000 players and modern-day players. The time it takes to get to the 2000 skill level and remain there is much much less practice time than what it takes modern day. Fuck, even alot of foreigners these days would trash old school pros. The fact (I believe) is that Random is less effective the higher caliber the game is. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I'm not sure if anyone in this particular thread cited the random advantage as the reason they dont play vs random on iccup, but I'd imagine those pple arent a part of the current state of the discussion. | ||
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
say they are protoss and opponent goes r and gets zerg, toss needs to opens gate as its the only safe shit vs r while all they know how to do is FE instead they have 1 base tech or 2 gate and they lose.. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Fuck = Zerg Shit = Terran PillarHumper = Protoss Anything else gets a "well screw u I'm going random" See, easy fix. The word combos even make sense :-) | ||
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QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
In most cases, people prefer play in a matchup where they are strongest in so they can climb the ladder quickly as possible, which is great for me, because I get a real decent practice out of that. I also don't care if the guy switches from random to whatever race at the last second, it just makes it all the more satisfying to rape him afterward, knowing that you crushed the sneaky bastard's ego. And if I end up losing in any of these scenarios, I just brush it off, and play the next series of games possible.(Cause in most cases losing cause of bad luck is nothing to beat yourself over, or in the rare case you get outplayed, its a well deserved loss, and take it as a lesson to learn from it.) Only losses I get pissed off about is if I make a blunder on my own terms, now that sucks shit. :| So what I'm saying is, relax it, shouldn't come surprising people on ladders are total tight ass fucks. | ||
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tracer
Korea (South)693 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
I rescind my contention that it is ONLY to try to get to high ranks and determine who's best because it's one of the few good avenues an old game like SC has. | ||
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GoShox
United States1835 Posts
Although I will say when I host games on iCCup I usually wait for the player to pick race before starting, so if they're a random player I never know that they just want random, so it's usually an awkward few moments when we're both just sitting there. <_< | ||
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crabapple
United States397 Posts
life is like a box of chocolates, you never know if you're gonna get a thread about starcraft or not. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On August 03 2008 13:22 Ancestral wrote: The point of a ladder is to determine relative rank, although you also get better doing it, and can compare yourself, and iCCup is one of the couple of mainstays that StarCraft now has, so it's not really the "purest" ladder. I rescind my contention that it is ONLY to try to get to high ranks and determine who's best because it's one of the few good avenues an old game like SC has. Thats your idea of a ladder just because other people use it to get better doesnt mean they're wrong. Some people play ladders to get better some do it to measure how good they are. I play randoms on iccup but i admit its sort of annoying that you have to scout earlier and than find out you teched vs zerg -.- | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On August 03 2008 15:09 Ilikestarcraft wrote: Thats your idea of a ladder just because other people use it to get better doesnt mean they're wrong. Some people play ladders to get better some do it to measure how good they are. I play randoms on iccup but i admit its sort of annoying that you have to scout earlier and than find out you teched vs zerg -.- In other words, what I said. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
As for a ladder. It is for determining your skill but it also serves to help develope your game. Every time you play in just about any setting you are developing your game as long as you are trying your best to play correctly. Also, another goal of a ladder is to obtain the highest rank possible whether you're actually as good as other people at that level or not so you can be proud and tell everyone you're a gosu B rank. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 04 2008 03:23 randomKo_Orean wrote: Valentine: There's no concrete evidence that random player always cheeses. You probably played very few vs random, and you are basing your arguments off that? Or you could just play iCCup randoms for yourself. It doesn't matter if there's concrete evidence or not, seeing as how people do it to me alot, and it all comes down to my preference as to whether or not I want to take the risk of playing a cheeser or possibly someone who is just random? And yeah I play a fuckton of random so don't even try to play that card buddy. I have random teammates, random iCCup players, 4 leagues my team plays in where I have to play my opponent regardless of race pick (not including "fun" clanwars that can be added on top of that stack). Valentine: There's no concrete evidence that random player always cheeses. There's also no concrete evidence that a Zerg won't 9pool ZvP on blue storm. There's no concrete evidence that a Protoss won't FE on Longinus PvZ. There's no conrete evidence that a Terran will get Factories against an Protoss. But the chances are high enough for me to acknowledge. You probably played very few vs random, and you are basing your arguments off that? I've already stated that I play against a fuckton of random players, so don't try to argue something you have no fucking idea about. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
I just kind went a little off the deep end when I hear people say that you don't play Ladder to get better.. and that it's only made for finding your own rank. I completely didn't expect anyone to back up that idea at all. So yeah I guess if I seem bm (I didn't think it looked too bad when I was writing it ' -'a) I'll edit it out. EDIT: Yeah and I don't usually like arguing with people like this but I got a little too drawn in to the discussion apparently -a-;; Sorry. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On August 05 2008 03:19 randomKo_Orean wrote: Good job dipshit, I'm a RANDOM PLAYER, so obvious I have NO CLUE what other random players are like. No really, you really know your shit. Oh yeah, no concrete evidence? That's too bad, because the reason for my blog-bitching is players like you, making excuses why playing versus randoms sucks (and most refuse to play random players). You haven't given me one good reason why people don't like playing versus random the reasons were because: 1) They don't want to practice 2) They don't want to scout early 3) Too unpredictable 4) Cheeses too much If someone cheeses you in a tournament, are you going to say "omg cheese rego" after you lose? You are a dipshit, and you have no clue. I don't give a shit if all your clanmates were random, you are a jackass regardless. Sorry for not replying earlier, I've been a little busy. When I was arguing so don't try to argue something you have no fucking idea about. I was definately replying to this: You probably played very few vs random, and you are basing your arguments off that? And as far as this goes: If someone cheeses you in a tournament, are you going to say "omg cheese rego" after you lose? Of course not; the point I have been trying to get across was that I play plenty of random players, and I don't blame any losses or the game being any harder when I play against a random. I'm simply saying that if I know you were an actual random player (like I know you are) and not just someone who is picking random so that they can cheese me, then of course I will play you. But if I'm playing on iCCup, where I'm trying to practice and get better, the chances are quite high that I will get cheesed, thus I prefer not to play them, or ask them to choose a race. On August 05 2008 03:19 randomKo_Orean wrote: Good job dipshit, I'm a RANDOM PLAYER, so obvious I have NO CLUE what other random players are like. No really, you really know your shit. Oh yeah, no concrete evidence? That's too bad, because the reason for my blog-bitching is players like you, making excuses why playing versus randoms sucks (and most refuse to play random players). You haven't given me one good reason why people don't like playing versus random the reasons were because: 1) They don't want to practice 2) They don't want to scout early 3) Too unpredictable 4) Cheeses too much If someone cheeses you in a tournament, are you going to say "omg cheese rego" after you lose? You are a dipshit, and you have no clue. I don't give a shit if all your clanmates were random, you are a jackass regardless. This part I really don't understand. First you say that you havn't found one good reason, then you put up four reasons, only one of which I have been trying to show, and that one (number four) being a completely good reason in my eyes. Anyway I guess I'm done arguing. If you can't understand my explanation as being reasonable then there really is nothing else I can try to get into your head. Toodles~ | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
TvR is so goddamn annoying to play twice in a row, i 8scout, twice in a row, i scout him last, twice in a row, i get raped by 9pool zerglings holy goddamn is the only viable thing to do when you 8scout->scout someone last TvR scv ramp block? honestly | ||
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