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indefinite integrals

Blogs > Raithed
Post a Reply
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-07 01:15:35
June 07 2008 01:12 GMT
#1
seriously you dont have to look at my blogs since it contains 80% homework.

[image loading]

there is something wrong in it, but idk where i did wrong. the result comes out as 3/5x^(5/3)+C

i understand that the dx needs to get taken out so we get the reciprocal of it, then replace f(x) into u for substitution.

im just doing some basic ones to understand it then doing the more harder ones:
[image loading]

the last part, do i plug back the original in and then do the antiderivative of it which would make it: u^4/4 - 2u^2/2 + 7u dx?

the problem i am having at the moment i think, is once i get the du out(if it IS du), i dont know when to do the antiderivative, and if i do it, lets say the original function is x^2, does it go x^3/3 or it stays as x^2 while the rest of the function gets their powers +1. or it gets antiderivatives twice? yes ive opened the book but it skips around a bit as that it doesnt go step by step which my brain needs.

thanks.

EDIT - dx = du, i tend to mistype that.

thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
June 07 2008 01:19 GMT
#2
ya i've definitely been going "wtf another intregral blog by raithed" haha
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 01:23 GMT
#3
that was definite integral this is indefinite which has a + constant, the indefinite, the only issue with that is solving this, after i get THIS, then i just plug it in. its not hard its just that the graph threw me off a little,
Ecael
Profile Joined February 2008
United States6703 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-07 01:24:23
June 07 2008 01:23 GMT
#4
You didn't need to use u substitution for the former, just write the radical in fraction form and do power rule.

I don't quite follow that you tried to do in the second one, what is the original problem? Int u^3 - 2u + 7?

EDIT - lol, Haji, I am sure most react the same way when you posted a blog like daily sometime the last couple of weeks. :p
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
June 07 2008 01:24 GMT
#5
= integral x^2/3

= 1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c

= 3/5 * x^(5/3) + c
Do you really want chat rooms?
Zelc
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
129 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-07 01:28:46
June 07 2008 01:26 GMT
#6
For the following, I'll use the INT() to designate integral. For example, the first line of the first example will be INT( (x^2)^(1/3), x). The x after the comma is the dx.

Your substitution for the first one doesn't work. It'd give you this INT( u^(1/3) * (1/2x), u) which is just ugly. Instead, rewrite it like this: INT( u^(2/3), u) which should be easy to integrate (2/3 + 1 = 5/3, etc.).

For the second one, you don't need to substitute stuff. Just use linearity and separate it. INT( u^3 - 2u + 7, u) = INT( u^3, u) + INT( 2u, u) + INT( 7, u). This should be easy.


ETA: By the way, when you do the second step of the substitution, it's easier to write it in terms of du/dx. For example, when you say u = x^2, then write du/dx = 2x which gives you dx = du/2x. Then substitute that in for the dx.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 01:34 GMT
#7
On June 07 2008 10:23 Ecael wrote:
You didn't need to use u substitution for the former, just write the radical in fraction form and do power rule.

I don't quite follow that you tried to do in the second one, what is the original problem? Int u^3 - 2u + 7?

EDIT - lol, Haji, I am sure most react the same way when you posted a blog like daily sometime the last couple of weeks. :p

yeah to the second one. i didnt know that i needed to use the substitution or not, i do have a hard time looking at it.

On June 07 2008 10:24 fight_or_flight wrote:
= integral x^2/3

= 1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c

= 3/5 * x^(5/3) + c


uh oh, algebra issue i didnt see i guess. (x^2)^(1/3) = x^(2/3)? but then i dont understand how:

1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c
how come its 1/(5/3)?

On June 07 2008 10:26 Zelc wrote:
For the following, I'll use the INT() to designate integral. For example, the first line of the first example will be INT( (x^2)^(1/3), x). The x after the comma is the dx.

Your substitution for the first one doesn't work. It'd give you this INT( u^(1/3) * (1/2x), u) which is just ugly. Instead, rewrite it like this: INT( u^(2/3), u) which should be easy to integrate (2/3 + 1 = 5/3, etc.).

For the second one, you don't need to substitute stuff. Just use linearity and separate it. INT( u^3 - 2u + 7, u) = INT( u^3, u) + INT( 2u, u) + INT( 7, u). This should be easy.


ETA: By the way, when you do the second step of the substitution, it's easier to write it in terms of du/dx. For example, when you say u = x^2, then write du/dx = 2x which gives you dx = du/2x. Then substitute that in for the dx.


INT( u^3 - 2u + 7, u) = INT( u^3, u) + INT( 2u, u) + INT( 7, u).
u^3, u <-- what does this mean? if its the INT, then, antiderivative?
ydg
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States690 Posts
June 07 2008 01:53 GMT
#8
remember that for u subs, you have to have whatever du is in part of the original.
for example:
[image loading]

the u is x^3+3, du is 3x^2 dx, which is right there in the equation.
So you can't do a u-sub, since there is no 2x in the equation.


"1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c
how come its 1/(5/3)? "
1/(2/3+1) is 1/(5/3) which is 3/5

"
u^3, u <-- what does this mean? if its the INT, then, antiderivative?"

i think the u means du. He's just splitting the integrals into different sums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum_rule_in_integration)

if you ever have trouble with u-subs, just pretend it's a system of equations and you're just substitution. using my first example, u = x^3+3, du = 3x^2 dx, dx=du/3x^2, so wherever you see a dx, you replace it with a du/3x^2
The only courage that matters is the kind that gets you from one moment to the next.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 01:59 GMT
#9
OH. so when i see something like that, it basically LOOKS the same as if looking at a chain rule, correct?

INT (1 / 2x^3) dx
INT (1)(2x^(-3))dx
INT 2x^(-3)dx <-- can i do this now?
then we take the derivative out, so should i look at it as 2x = 2 = 1/2 ?
(1/2) INT .... uh oh, whats the next step or am i even going into the right direction?
ydg
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States690 Posts
June 07 2008 02:04 GMT
#10
yeah, a u-sub is just a chain rule in reverse.

[image loading]


i dunno what you wrote, so i just put the answer. i hope you see why this happens
The only courage that matters is the kind that gets you from one moment to the next.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 02:15 GMT
#11
okay going back to the first problem i listed:

from fof:

= integral x^2/3 understood

= 1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c i dont know why its 1 over (2/3 +1), can you try to explain? i get the x^(2/3+1) [anti?]

= 3/5 * x^(5/3) + c


and for:

[image loading]

(1/2) INT x^(-3) dx <-- it was (1/2) INT 2x^(-3) dx and you took this out right? i know why but can you explain why its always that number to be taken out?
ydg
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States690 Posts
June 07 2008 02:25 GMT
#12
"= 1/(2/3+1) * x^(2/3+1) + c i dont know why its 1 over (2/3 +1), can you try to explain? i get the x^(2/3+1) [anti?]"
power rule of integration: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Calculus/Integration#Basic_Properties_of_Indefinite_Integrals


"(1/2) INT x^(-3) dx <-- it was (1/2) INT 2x^(-3) dx and you took this out right? i know why but can you explain why its always that number to be taken out?"

eh? well you wrote 1/2 * x^(-3), so you just take the coefficient out. i don't see where you got the 2 in front of the x from
The only courage that matters is the kind that gets you from one moment to the next.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 02:52 GMT
#13
what i mean is:

INT (1) / (2x^3)dx a
INT (1)(2x^(-3))dx b

you basically saw it as (1/2) INT x^(-3) dx from a instead of the need to rewrite? because i looked at it again and you just took the (1/2) out of the x^(-3)

im trying to really recognize integrals like:

INT (x^2 + 1)^2(2x)
g(x) would 2x right?

f(g(x)) = (x^2 + 1)^2 right?

and as i recognized it, what are the steps into solving it, as the answer is (1/3)(x^2 + 1)^3 + C

ugh, sorry im being repetitive, i cant seem to grasp the concept and understand it. antiderivatives are so much easier, integrals are so hard.
ydg
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States690 Posts
June 07 2008 02:59 GMT
#14
uhh yeah i just took out the 1/2 lol.

but for the second one, yeah you're right.
so you solve it by doing a substitution. i'm bad at using f and g notation, so i'll just demonstrate.
in your example, you let u=x^2+1, right?
then you take the derivative of both sides, so you get du = 2x dx.
then you see that you have a 2x dx in the equation, and you already had du = 2x dx, so you substitute 2x dx with du.
and then you get the u-sub, just remember to switch back to x's when you're done.

and well, u-subs should always be your second line of defense after the power rule and like, given integrals like cosine and sine.
and if you can't do a u-sub you go on to more difficult ways of solving it.
The only courage that matters is the kind that gets you from one moment to the next.
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
June 07 2008 04:13 GMT
#15
if you are still wondering about the first integral. Here are the steps, sorry I had to catch a bus so I didn't have time to make it more clear.



On June 07 2008 11:52 Raithed wrote:
im trying to really recognize integrals like:

INT (x^2 + 1)^2(2x)
g(x) would 2x right?

f(g(x)) = (x^2 + 1)^2 right?

and as i recognized it, what are the steps into solving it, as the answer is (1/3)(x^2 + 1)^3 + C


[image loading]


ugh, sorry im being repetitive, i cant seem to grasp the concept and understand it. antiderivatives are so much easier, integrals are so hard.

same thing....
Do you really want chat rooms?
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
June 07 2008 05:48 GMT
#16
youtube is helping me out too. =] i THINK, im not 100% but i THINK i got it. but for people who are viewing this, what happens to the other sin? o_o i mean, d' of cosx is sinx, so i guess it went into the sinx^4 yes?

INT (cosx)(sinx)^3 dx
(1/4)sin^4 + C
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
June 07 2008 06:52 GMT
#17
thats a u substitution

u = sinx
du = cosx dx

therefore

INT sinx^3 (cosx dx) = INT u^3 du
Do you really want chat rooms?
Zelc
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
129 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-07 07:28:53
June 07 2008 07:25 GMT
#18
On June 07 2008 10:34 Raithed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2008 10:26 Zelc wrote:
For the following, I'll use the INT() to designate integral. For example, the first line of the first example will be INT( (x^2)^(1/3), x). The x after the comma is the dx.

Your substitution for the first one doesn't work. It'd give you this INT( u^(1/3) * (1/2x), u) which is just ugly. Instead, rewrite it like this: INT( u^(2/3), u) which should be easy to integrate (2/3 + 1 = 5/3, etc.).

For the second one, you don't need to substitute stuff. Just use linearity and separate it. INT( u^3 - 2u + 7, u) = INT( u^3, u) + INT( 2u, u) + INT( 7, u). This should be easy.


ETA: By the way, when you do the second step of the substitution, it's easier to write it in terms of du/dx. For example, when you say u = x^2, then write du/dx = 2x which gives you dx = du/2x. Then substitute that in for the dx.


INT( u^3 - 2u + 7, u) = INT( u^3, u) + INT( 2u, u) + INT( 7, u).
u^3, u <-- what does this mean? if its the INT, then, antiderivative?

The function before the comma is the stuff that's being integrated. The u after the comma indicates that u is the variable that is being integrated. If you have more than one variable in the function, this gets important . In other words, that u after the comma specifies that there's a du, as opposed to say a dx (if it was a dx, it'd be an x after the comma). So the INT( u^3, u) would look like squigly u^3 du. Haven't you used the integral function on a TI calculator before?

By the way, I made a typo. That should be a - INT( 2u, u) in the second part, not a + INT( 2u, u).

Basically integrals are linear in that INT( a*f(x) + b*g(x), x) = a*INT( f(x), x) + b*INT( g(x), x), where a and b are constants.
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