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My ZvP breakthrough?

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 03 2008 03:00 GMT
#1
If you've been keeping up with my blog you know that I have the most difficulty against Protoss. My frustrating losses to all but the noobiest of players has caused me to reexamine my play...

Fortunately, since I've been keeping written notes of my progress (ie. this blog) I was able to notice that, as I played more games, got better in general, faster, more multitasking ability, and more strategic/tactical knowledge, I've actually gotten worse at ZvP.

How the hell could this be? I watched pretty much every ZvP replay I've played, and...

Back when I started playing, the first 100 gas I ever got went to lair, always. I also tended to take my gas a bit early (around 12 or 13 supply). In ZvP this translated into me going 2 base 2 hatch lurker rush. When I got some lurkers, I'd usually move out to protoss' nat and just charge in, targeting cannons with all the hydra/ling I had while my lurkers settled in. If I broke in, I'd probably win, if not, I'd lose. I didn't really know much else to do at the time.

Then, one horrific and fateful day, I played some games on bnet. 4 games. All against Protoss @Python. And each and every time, they went 1gate tech to corsairs. As most people know, if you're unprepared when that corsair gets to your base, it can be gg pretty easily. It was very frustrating. That's when it all changed. Before that, my main priority was to get some lurkers and roll out. After those games, my main priority became getting hydras to deal with those corsairs.

Now, that's not exactly bad, but I didn't follow up correctly. What I inevitably ended up doing every game ZvP since then was getting mass hydra/ling, and since I was going mass hydra, I might as well get hydra ups, etc. This put a lot of strain on my gas econ early in the game, resulting in my getting lair very, very late. So late that I never had lurkers unless the protoss delayed his push for some reason. Since my macro isn't really strong yet, I'd get owned repeatedly by a group of +1 speedzeals and a couple templar, and then it was pretty much over. At this point, the only way I'd ever win was either via the occasional hydra rush, or, if the protoss for some reason decided not to attack when he took his third, and instead sat his army by his third to defend it while it warped in, my drop tech would complete around then, and I would drop my hydras in his main, forcing him to run his army back to deal with it, while a dozen speedlings shut down his third, and I took another expo. Repeat until I have cracklings and ultras. But basically I just lost to +1 speedzeals and templar over and over.

My late lair meant late overlord speed, which meant corsair harass was more effective for longer, and a couple DT could give the protoss map control ez. It also meant really late lurkers, which made dealing with the +1 speedzeals really tough. What a shitty way to play.

So anyway, I finally realized what I was doing wrong. Will I win more often now at ZvP? I dunno. But I'll be playing better.


tl;dr: The jig is up 'tosses. I know about your additional pylons.

****
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
June 03 2008 03:02 GMT
#2
Conclusion stolen for great justice.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
EnergyTraction
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada233 Posts
June 03 2008 03:07 GMT
#3
Well, 2 hatch lurker is like....never gonna work vs a decent toss. So it's good you figured it out.
He who adores the Beast shall drink of the wrath of God
Sigrun
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1655 Posts
June 03 2008 03:08 GMT
#4
You don't have to get all the Hydra upgrades early on just because you make some for defending Overlords....
Graphics
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
June 03 2008 03:10 GMT
#5
What do you mean, your additional pylons?
Can you dig it?
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
June 03 2008 03:13 GMT
#6
http://pylon.ytmnd.com/
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 03 2008 03:17 GMT
#7
@EnergyTraction: Well, I would add a third hatchery while lair was building, so I guess it wasn't exactly 2 hatch lurker, but my third hatch was notably delayed due to the fast gas and fast tech.

@Sigrun: Yeah I know, but I would tend to make too many hydras to deal with the corsairs, and at that point, it seemed stupid not to get the hydra ups when I had that many hydras.

@ScarFace: It's a joke, referencing a funny picture.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
June 03 2008 03:17 GMT
#8
Dromar, have you read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=72062 ?
It's really good.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 03 2008 03:27 GMT
#9
On June 03 2008 12:17 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Dromar, have you read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=72062 ?
It's really good.



Uh, no. The ZvP section of the Recommended Threads is pretty empty right now. I wonder why this isn't in it. Thanx for showing it to me.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
June 03 2008 03:28 GMT
#10
It's pretty recent, a week or so old I think.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 03 2008 03:34 GMT
#11
On June 03 2008 12:28 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
It's pretty recent, a week or so old I think.


Yeah I just noticed that. I usually just check the list of 5 on the left of the page, so sometimes I miss stuff like this.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
June 03 2008 03:45 GMT
#12
Let he who does not use the forum index to browse be smitten by the Protoss filth!
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Flyingsnow
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Japan208 Posts
June 03 2008 04:46 GMT
#13
Hey
Its me Murakumo
iirc from those 2 games we played the other day i thought your play was ok. Your macro was really off though. Normally a zerg would have twice the amount of units that you had at some moments. Then the second game you made some bad decisions but that happens to everyone. Don't give up! Be more wary of harass too. =D
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
June 03 2008 07:55 GMT
#14
zulu had some good stuff on this.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
YoUr_KiLLeR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States3420 Posts
June 03 2008 12:24 GMT
#15
On June 03 2008 12:17 Dromar wrote:
@EnergyTraction: Well, I would add a third hatchery while lair was building, so I guess it wasn't exactly 2 hatch lurker, but my third hatch was notably delayed due to the fast gas and fast tech.

@Sigrun: Yeah I know, but I would tend to make too many hydras to deal with the corsairs, and at that point, it seemed stupid not to get the hydra ups when I had that many hydras.

@ScarFace: It's a joke, referencing a funny picture.

that would be considered 2 hatch =p. its usually the number of hatches you get before you start mining gas.

and yes, i also overcommit to hydras vs sairs a lot.
what the fuck do you have to say for yourself now you protoss jackass can you retaliate in any way
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