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So I don't suck as much as I used to, but I still suck. I'll just get right into it:
I'll on occasion warm up before a session with a practice game, usually a 1v1 on blood bath or something. Something quick to get me into the correct mindset. This last time, I played a ZvZ on blood bath, and the guy turned out to be a min hacker. But I beat him anyway. I feel happy about that, but I'm not including it into my stats as a real game.
ZERG (50 games)
ZvZ ( 7 games) 3- 4 42.8%
ZvT (28 games) 9-19 32.1%
ZvP (15 games) 2-13 13.3%
Average APM 154
Winrate 28%
Average APM of opponent 155
Average APM of opponent when I won 154
I'm 14-36 in the last 50 games
I'm 8-17 in the last 25 games
Thoughts:
ZvT:
I've found much more success in ZvT through more liberal use of speedlings. Overlords can only watch over certain areas, and with a group of speedlings I can keep a better eye on the Terran's activity, while also denying scouting, etc. Currently, 12hatch standard:ling speed:lair:dual evo, and both hydra den and spire at the correct lair timings. Depending on the map/how I feel/recent ling scouting, I'll either go muta harass, or just skip it and go straight to lurkers, then secure my third and go straight to hive. I've only recently gotten my first taste of the awesome power of dark swarm. It makes it okay that the Terrans have irradiate.
I've also tried out an overpool speedlings build that I've seen Mondragon use against Protoss, with mixed results. Against 1rax cc or 14cc, it can do some good damage, but against any 2rax build, it doesn't do so well.
One thing that has really helped me in ZvT is that I changed the way I use lurkers. In the past, I've been too agressive with them, taking on the Terran ball with a group of lurkers and 2/3 groups of lings, hoping to destroy it. It usually didn't work. By playing more defensively with my lurkers until I have swarm, I'm having much more success in skirmishes.
ZvP:
ZvP is my weakest matchup. Of the 15 games I played, the only two I won were hydra pushes. Of the other 13, like 11 or so were 12hatch, and probably a couple overpool speed. I don't think overpool speed is viable on a map with ramps, since my run-by can be stopped as easily as blocking the ramp. Lately what I've been doing is something like 12hatch, first gas will go to carapace, then hydra den + a few hydras, lair, ling speed. Once lair is done I get lurker tech and ovie speed, and start melee upgrades. I think I have to concentrate more on building a strong economy against protoss. Generally though, I get raped by the protoss ball, most specifically by psi storms that take out my lings by the dozens. 
ZvZ:
I'm really liking the gas-pool builds. I'll usually go either 12gaspool or 9gaspool, or sometimes overpool. I guess I don't have much to say about this matchup.
Questions:
[ZvT]
1. Do Terran players just automatically build turrets against Zerg when they scan a spire? It seems advantageous to go lurkers, but build a spire (since I'll need it anyway for vessels), and have my opponent build a bunch of turrets that will be useless.
2. How do you deal with mnm dropships BEFORE they fuck you up?
3. How viable are guardians? I never see them used in progames usually unless the Zerg player is way ahead already. Are there any good builds that involve guardians? Obviously favorable terrain is needed to keep them alive against mass marines, but are they even viable?
[ZvP]
1. When I scout an FE build, I want to expand, but it just never seems like I have enough money. WTF? Should I be stopping drone production to take my third? That seems counterintuitive.
[ZvZ]
No questions. But I would like to say that I disagree with the common statement that "ZvZ is so luck based," etc. I think there does exist a rock/paper/scissors element in the opening builds of the players, but after that, I think ZvZ just puts incredible importance on a players ability to always be watching his military. If you stop paying attention to your mutas, they can get scourged, and that can cost you the game. Similarly, if you ignore your 8 lings for too long, your opponent might surround with his 12 lings, and destroy yours. The matchup is very fragile, because losing just a couple units carelessly (drones come to mind) will often change the outcome of the game. But I wouldn't call it luck.
Constructive criticism, questions, and comments are welcome.
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is awesome32275 Posts
[ZvT]
1. Do Terran players just automatically build turrets against Zerg when they scan a spire? It seems advantageous to go lurkers, but build a spire (since I'll need it anyway for vessels), and have my opponent build a bunch of turrets that will be useless.
2. How do you deal with mnm dropships BEFORE they fuck you up?
3. How viable are guardians? I never see them used in progames usually unless the Zerg player is way ahead already. Are there any good builds that involve guardians? Obviously favorable terrain is needed to keep them alive against mass marines, but are they even viable?
1. Usually they do. Good players will check your larvae morphing rather than the building alone. That is why some players build both but only hatch the hydras right when the spire is done, take and expo and morph lurkers etc.
2. Scouting. if you know it's coming, you should be able to stop it. If it just hits you blind then its very hard usually. Spread your overlords arounds, lings patrolling usual paths if you suspect a drop. Late game patrol some scourge
3. the SaviOr build (back when he dominated) involved guardians. You usually watch for lots of ledges to abuse their range. Specially behind their base to hit scvs too.
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Going lurker first kind of sucks because the terran can just spread their m+m out and camp outside, or even do a timing 5 tank/vessel push.
I've seen one incontrol rep where he goes fast drops with lurker/ling and then multi-drops-->goes hive and makes ultra from a few gas. Maybe that will suit your style over going muta first.
If you see an FE, and you 12 hatched, just go 11 pool then 13 hatch at the other base..Think you throw down another hatch depending if he decides to make a fast gateway for harass, simply making 2 lings after pool is finished to scout/hunt the probe down. You do cut drones a bit early on, think of it as an investment, I think its once 5-6 drones are pumping from your nat. Making six lings asap is only useful if you think you can kill the scout and/or kill future scouts by camping outside his base.
No need to go get gas asap from your expos.
From there you pump drones, position your overlord to see how fast the toss techs from the nat/main. Focus on an mineral income first while pumping from drones to saturate the minerals and while your making a lair, at about 75-80% completion start getting a 2nd/3rd gas, depending on the toss's opening. Sair/reaver is technically mass hydra/burrow upgrade with dual evo. Others you can do a duo lurker/spire tech to camp and take another expo so you can thrive on four gases to focus on hive tech. Dual evo in the meantime is essential and harass with lings alot, they're quite annoying to deal with. ZvP and Pvt are similar in the sense that the purpose is to continuously barrage your enemy to reduce their numbers in high cost units, even when you lose most the battles, you still have an economy to build that back on while destroying/limiting the protoss's expansions. Forcing them to cannon, and make them scared out of moving.
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[ZvT]
1. Do Terran players just automatically build turrets against Zerg when they scan a spire? It seems advantageous to go lurkers, but build a spire (since I'll need it anyway for vessels), and have my opponent build a bunch of turrets that will be useless.
2. How do you deal with mnm dropships BEFORE they fuck you up?
3. How viable are guardians? I never see them used in progames usually unless the Zerg player is way ahead already. Are there any good builds that involve guardians? Obviously favorable terrain is needed to keep them alive against mass marines, but are they even viable?
1. almost always. but turrets cost no gas, and a spire 250/whatever is pretty expensive early on. Im not so sure if its worth faking since it will delay your lurkers.
2. depends on the time in the game. you want to have scourge patrolling the likely dship paths in mid/late game. before you have scourge, (and if they land despite scourge) you want to have lings lurkers hotkeyed already. If you have to click around the map gathering lings lurkers to defend you are already wasting time. send in ling/lurker....you should generally have enough space to surround, which you should try and do. If you arent in danger of losing buildings, spend time to align you lings/lurkers. You do not want to run in single file. If you lose a building, rebuild it somewhere else. The goal of dropships is to overwhelm you and make you react poorly. If you dont panic you'll do better.
3. very. Depends on the map, but hive rush guardians after no lurker mass muta (see luxury vs frozean) is pretty hard to deal with for D rank terrans. Its really strong on blue storm, and decent on python.
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Im not great at zvz, but a build I came across that I reall like is:
9 pool
8 drone
9 extractor
8 overlord
8 drone
pool will finish
(6 lings)
12 lair
-save larvae...go drones if safe, but you dont want to be caught with no larvae vs unexpected speedlings
17 spire
16 overlord
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the way it gets lings/muta seems really efficient to me, there is almost no waste in the build.
generally you will have enough for another hatchery after mutas pop.
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Jaedong did lurker 1st vs memory in the lecaf vs (Cj I think?) proleague. It seemed to be pretty sucesseful.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I think we're on a similar level. Would you like to play some games? PM me if you're interested 
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On May 14 2008 10:24 SnowFantasy wrote:
Jaedong did lurker 1st vs memory in the lecaf vs (Cj I think?) proleague. It seemed to be pretty sucesseful.
Element of surprise and PROGAMER execution probably helped a lot to tha tthough.
who expects a pro ZvT to go lurker first? Let alone JaeDong, if you ever saw his games where he controls 2 groups of mutas simultaniously wreaking havoc, you know what i'm talking about.
why would he ever not use that weapon?? would catch anyone off guard 
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On May 14 2008 11:31 MoNKeYSpanKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2008 10:24 SnowFantasy wrote:
Jaedong did lurker 1st vs memory in the lecaf vs (Cj I think?) proleague. It seemed to be pretty sucesseful. Element of surprise and PROGAMER execution probably helped a lot to tha tthough. who expects a pro ZvT to go lurker first? Let alone JaeDong, if you ever saw his games where he controls 2 groups of mutas simultaniously wreaking havoc, you know what i'm talking about. why would he ever not use that weapon?? would catch anyone off guard
My thought upon watching that game was that he decided to forego mutas after losing those two overlords. Losing those two ovies really delayed his mutas, and I don't think they would have been very effective.
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EPT
