Anyone find Andromeda a ZvP haven?

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Raithed

China7078 Posts

April 25 2008 19:55 GMT

Out of all the games played, P has won once there and it was due to cheese, why is Andromeda so hard for P to win?

Chill

Calgary25990 Posts

April 25 2008 20:03 GMT

I think 1 in 4 games is anything to draw conclusions from.

However, it does seem Z>P to me because there are 3 bases with a common choke. This makes the Bisu build, and essentially any harassment build after FE fairly ineffective.

Raithed

China7078 Posts

April 25 2008 20:07 GMT

So Chill, being an expert Z, what do you think P should do to take a win in games like this? Massive harassment?

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 25 2008 20:12 GMT

The answer to such maps is long known and it's sair/reaver into sair/reaver/carrier. The only problem I see with it is that the highground nat is lurkerable (I didn't test if it's possible to place cannons in a way it's unreachable), but every expo but the center on the map is quite easily defended with cannon/reaver, besides, there are two islands. You can also storm both naturals from an inaccessible location, which is a small boon.

This map, in it's structure, is very reminiscent of Arcadia (with a few twists of course), I guess it will play much like it. Sair/Reaver toss will have enough gas to start off (2 geysers), then will be able to switch to carrier after taking the island. Zerg, on the other hand, will have to expand somewhere else than his first three bases to get hive with at least 3 geysers. Toss usually is able to win the air war with sair/reaver (thus he will control the islands), so zerg will probably have to take some ground expo or a main set. Needless to say, air play is strong vs anything stretched-out.

Chill

Calgary25990 Posts

April 25 2008 20:14 GMT

ReaverSair after expansion is fine. Personally, I would skip Stargate and look to move out with a Templar-heavy army timed to break their first out-of-base expansion. I don't play Protoss though.

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 25 2008 20:18 GMT

Well, I guess your way would be quite strong too, even if toss is unable to attack sunken/lurker defenses directly, he will be able to shut down mining at minonly with storm. It will boil down to timings, eventually (will z be able to control the map long enough to sunk/lurker their third expo), and those are usually only found out experimentally.

EDIT: actually, this map is different from Arcadia with it's center expo. It's in the open field, thus air will not be nearly as strong vs a zerg force stationed there. Dunno if it will change things drastically, though.

Raithed

China7078 Posts

April 25 2008 20:21 GMT

The thing is, it's easy to secure maps like this, to expand, Zerg can go into another expansion's nat, once the hatchery is down, they can place sunkens and such and this would deem it unbreakable so I guess corsair/reaver do work.

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 25 2008 20:40 GMT

Well, yes, it's the standard arcadia procedure. This map has a center expo (and expos at 3 and 9 have only one choke opposed to Arcadia's two, but wider), but better drop spots.

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 25 2008 23:39 GMT

Well, I've just watched Bisu vs KwanRo on Andromeda and I'm convinced that the result of this game is solely due to the disparity of playing quality. Bisu (like every second "decent" player does) didn't build a single observer that game, didn't get storm, made overall stupid decisions here and there (his "secret" expansion, some lost shuttles). He obviously got too greedy once, having already destroyed like 500/500 worth of buildings, he chose to continue the fight with depleted reavers, and lost like 5 of them for no gain. KwanRo, on the other hand, played fucking superbly. I haven't seen such a talented anti-reaver defense in a long long while.

Sadly, Bisu is no longer a PvZ deity T_T.

I will watch other games later, but that one, being the most emotion-provoking, has nothing to do with imbalance (and boosts my ego by following the strategy I outlined viable for the map). Too early to tell.

UPDATE: Jangbi is a moron. Watch the game and pay special attention to air units killed by scourge. Oversaving on cannons in that particular way isn't a good way to play PvZ. As a result, he missed the appropriate timings with reaver, made an unfortunate switch to templar tech (his DT drop was marginally successful, but the HT one... well, not that much) and due to all that money invested in something that didn't work, he didn't have a sufficent army to stop ZerO from expoing to another main. The icing of the cake was losing another shuttle full of zealots for exactly nothing. From then on, ZerO was free to do anything he wished (well, no, even after that atrocious play, he still had to fight to earn his win). Don't stop watching, however, the scourge fun never ends. Once again, I wouldn't blame that loss on imbalance.

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