• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:15
CET 03:15
KST 11:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets0$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)12Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1176 users

APM and a math problem

Blogs > Muirhead
Post a Reply
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
March 29 2008 22:10 GMT
#1
I'm now a solid D+ on iccup but my APM has never been over 90 in a game I've won. I thought it would get better with time but I've been playing for a few months now and it stays put at ~80. I feel I would win a lot more if I were able to move even a little bit faster. Maybe I should just stick to math... the USAMO is only a month away.

Speaking of math, does there exist a countable abelian group with an uncountable chain of nested subgroups? It's a nice problem in the same flavor as some of the roadrunner questions I've seen posted here.

starleague.mit.edu
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:16 GMT
#2
For APM: Work on being more efficient. focus on idle gateways, idle nexii, idle probes...if you can stop all those things from happening with 90 APM and still micro, then either your build is slow, or you are super efficient. If you can do everything you want with 90 APM I wouldnt worry about APM so much.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
March 29 2008 22:23 GMT
#3
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall
starleague.mit.edu
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20105 Posts
March 29 2008 22:30 GMT
#4
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


keep playing and go faster. are you telling me you cant possibly click your mouse and hit keys more than 90 times a minute? start spamming, and then turn that spam into something useful.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
March 29 2008 22:32 GMT
#5
I know people will ding me for this, but high APM has a lot to do with good hand-eye coordination. One way to develop that is to start spamming select and hotkey commands in game. This develops muscle memory. After a few weeks, you'll find yourself getting faster and faster. It also helps to watch some FPVODs of fast players, so you know just how fast you have to play -- that is, very.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:33 GMT
#6
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


play against the computer with a build in mind

whenever you make a mistake in your macro, stop and start again.

You arent playing against the computer, or trying to beat it. You are just trying to improve you macro/multitasking
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Elite00fm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States548 Posts
March 29 2008 22:35 GMT
#7
take advantage of hotkeys, everytime you have units, make sure there is a hotkey assigned to them, every time you build a gateway, make sure there is a hotkey assigned to it. Also hotkey your main and nat nexuses, and do little things with hotkeys like for example: your hotkey for your main nexus is 0, and your main nexus is being attacked, double-tap 0 to get there fast. Double tapping hotkeys to get around your base and get your units can really help I think. Seriously though hotkeys = apm. If you look at a pro player's rep in BWchart or something, you will see that hotkey use is usually the #1 action they are doing, and hotkeys alone might make up 30-40% of their total actions.
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:39 GMT
#8
On March 30 2008 07:32 ahrara_ wrote:
I know people will ding me for this, but high APM has a lot to do with good hand-eye coordination. One way to develop that is to start spamming select and hotkey commands in game. This develops muscle memory. After a few weeks, you'll find yourself getting faster and faster. It also helps to watch some FPVODs of fast players, so you know just how fast you have to play -- that is, very.


I agree. You want the familiarity, not just with muscle memory, but timing as well. You have to develop a feel for the game that can only happen through mass gaming.

Which is why I reccomend playing against the computer. You can practice your early/mid game much more efficiently after you have built a foundation.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
March 29 2008 22:45 GMT
#9
I had very low apm to start, and just by playing consistently it went up steadily... just be patient haha. You can try all the spam stuff people are suggesting, but I'm not a proponent of it. And I have no idea what that math problem is asking.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Daveed
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States236 Posts
March 29 2008 22:46 GMT
#10
About the problem; how can there be? If there are a countable number of elements in the group, and each subgroup U contained in another subgroup V must have fewer members. So there should be "fewer" subgroups, no matter how you nest them, than the number of elements in the group... which would mean that it would be at most countable,

or am I misunderstanding?
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-29 22:53:37
March 29 2008 22:52 GMT
#11
Or 70%

Edit: guess I didn't reload the page for a while before posting
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
Flying_Llama
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Canada419 Posts
March 29 2008 23:15 GMT
#12
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.
defenestrate
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States579 Posts
March 30 2008 00:19 GMT
#13
You obviously have a comparative advantage in math if you qualified for the USAMO. Focus on that for now.
We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges.
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
March 30 2008 01:11 GMT
#14
On March 30 2008 08:15 Flying_Llama wrote:
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.

Once you've got the coordination down, playing fast stops being a distraction, and more of a boon. Play at that speed for a while, and you'll find yourself being able to focus on the game more. High APM will help your macro considerably.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 30 2008 01:16 GMT
#15
On March 30 2008 10:11 ahrara_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2008 08:15 Flying_Llama wrote:
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.

Once you've got the coordination down, playing fast stops being a distraction, and more of a boon. Play at that speed for a while, and you'll find yourself being able to focus on the game more. High APM will help your macro considerably.


I think its probably more of a deal for terran though
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
March 30 2008 02:15 GMT
#16
On March 30 2008 07:30 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


keep playing and go faster. are you telling me you cant possibly click your mouse and hit keys more than 90 times a minute? start spamming, and then turn that spam into something useful.


Although this advice sounds like it couldn't possibly work to anybody who hasn't done it, trust me, it works. The spam warms up your speed and your ability to multitask mentally for the entire game.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft534
White-Ra 147
RuFF_SC2 94
CosmosSc2 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13801
Artosis 818
Shuttle 203
Sharp 120
NaDa 40
GoRush 22
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm70
League of Legends
C9.Mang0449
Counter-Strike
summit1g7775
Coldzera 1531
minikerr9
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox426
Other Games
tarik_tv6489
JimRising 296
XaKoH 174
Maynarde148
ZombieGrub15
Liquid`Ken5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3103
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 67
• davetesta19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki15
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22019
Other Games
• Shiphtur838
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
9h 45m
PiGosaur Cup
22h 45m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 9h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
OSC
3 days
All Star Teams
4 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
All Star Teams
5 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-12
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.