• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:41
CEST 14:41
KST 21:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War875.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War BSL23 Confirmations Starts on New BSL Portal
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B ASL 22 Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13477 users

APM and a math problem

Blogs > Muirhead
Post a Reply
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
March 29 2008 22:10 GMT
#1
I'm now a solid D+ on iccup but my APM has never been over 90 in a game I've won. I thought it would get better with time but I've been playing for a few months now and it stays put at ~80. I feel I would win a lot more if I were able to move even a little bit faster. Maybe I should just stick to math... the USAMO is only a month away.

Speaking of math, does there exist a countable abelian group with an uncountable chain of nested subgroups? It's a nice problem in the same flavor as some of the roadrunner questions I've seen posted here.

starleague.mit.edu
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:16 GMT
#2
For APM: Work on being more efficient. focus on idle gateways, idle nexii, idle probes...if you can stop all those things from happening with 90 APM and still micro, then either your build is slow, or you are super efficient. If you can do everything you want with 90 APM I wouldnt worry about APM so much.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
March 29 2008 22:23 GMT
#3
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall
starleague.mit.edu
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20170 Posts
March 29 2008 22:30 GMT
#4
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


keep playing and go faster. are you telling me you cant possibly click your mouse and hit keys more than 90 times a minute? start spamming, and then turn that spam into something useful.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
March 29 2008 22:32 GMT
#5
I know people will ding me for this, but high APM has a lot to do with good hand-eye coordination. One way to develop that is to start spamming select and hotkey commands in game. This develops muscle memory. After a few weeks, you'll find yourself getting faster and faster. It also helps to watch some FPVODs of fast players, so you know just how fast you have to play -- that is, very.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:33 GMT
#6
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


play against the computer with a build in mind

whenever you make a mistake in your macro, stop and start again.

You arent playing against the computer, or trying to beat it. You are just trying to improve you macro/multitasking
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Elite00fm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States548 Posts
March 29 2008 22:35 GMT
#7
take advantage of hotkeys, everytime you have units, make sure there is a hotkey assigned to them, every time you build a gateway, make sure there is a hotkey assigned to it. Also hotkey your main and nat nexuses, and do little things with hotkeys like for example: your hotkey for your main nexus is 0, and your main nexus is being attacked, double-tap 0 to get there fast. Double tapping hotkeys to get around your base and get your units can really help I think. Seriously though hotkeys = apm. If you look at a pro player's rep in BWchart or something, you will see that hotkey use is usually the #1 action they are doing, and hotkeys alone might make up 30-40% of their total actions.
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 29 2008 22:39 GMT
#8
On March 30 2008 07:32 ahrara_ wrote:
I know people will ding me for this, but high APM has a lot to do with good hand-eye coordination. One way to develop that is to start spamming select and hotkey commands in game. This develops muscle memory. After a few weeks, you'll find yourself getting faster and faster. It also helps to watch some FPVODs of fast players, so you know just how fast you have to play -- that is, very.


I agree. You want the familiarity, not just with muscle memory, but timing as well. You have to develop a feel for the game that can only happen through mass gaming.

Which is why I reccomend playing against the computer. You can practice your early/mid game much more efficiently after you have built a foundation.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24805 Posts
March 29 2008 22:45 GMT
#9
I had very low apm to start, and just by playing consistently it went up steadily... just be patient haha. You can try all the spam stuff people are suggesting, but I'm not a proponent of it. And I have no idea what that math problem is asking.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Daveed
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States236 Posts
March 29 2008 22:46 GMT
#10
About the problem; how can there be? If there are a countable number of elements in the group, and each subgroup U contained in another subgroup V must have fewer members. So there should be "fewer" subgroups, no matter how you nest them, than the number of elements in the group... which would mean that it would be at most countable,

or am I misunderstanding?
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-29 22:53:37
March 29 2008 22:52 GMT
#11
Or 70%

Edit: guess I didn't reload the page for a while before posting
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
Flying_Llama
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Canada419 Posts
March 29 2008 23:15 GMT
#12
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.
defenestrate
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States579 Posts
March 30 2008 00:19 GMT
#13
You obviously have a comparative advantage in math if you qualified for the USAMO. Focus on that for now.
We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges.
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
March 30 2008 01:11 GMT
#14
On March 30 2008 08:15 Flying_Llama wrote:
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.

Once you've got the coordination down, playing fast stops being a distraction, and more of a boon. Play at that speed for a while, and you'll find yourself being able to focus on the game more. High APM will help your macro considerably.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
March 30 2008 01:16 GMT
#15
On March 30 2008 10:11 ahrara_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2008 08:15 Flying_Llama wrote:
Higher apm is really useless imo. I had around 100apm but could get to around 170 if i worked on being fast before i stopped and i was C ish on iccup.Recently ive played a couple of sc games and my apm is around 180-200 without even trying and im playing terribly. Ive lost like 10 games to D players without even putting up a good fight.

I dont know if its because im rusty but i find that focusing on winning is better than trying to raise ur apm.

Just like everyone says, it'll come with time.

Once you've got the coordination down, playing fast stops being a distraction, and more of a boon. Play at that speed for a while, and you'll find yourself being able to focus on the game more. High APM will help your macro considerably.


I think its probably more of a deal for terran though
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
March 30 2008 02:15 GMT
#16
On March 30 2008 07:30 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2008 07:23 Muirhead wrote:
I can't do everything I want. I'm constantly trying to go as fast as I can and prioritize, but I'm still slow overall


keep playing and go faster. are you telling me you cant possibly click your mouse and hit keys more than 90 times a minute? start spamming, and then turn that spam into something useful.


Although this advice sounds like it couldn't possibly work to anybody who hasn't done it, trust me, it works. The spam warms up your speed and your ability to multitask mentally for the entire game.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
20:00
2026 Week 27
IntoTheiNu 832
WardiTV507
RotterdaM353
TKL 227
SteadfastSC78
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko376
RotterdaM 353
Reynor 227
TKL 227
SteadfastSC 78
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2823
Shuttle 1687
Horang2 849
BeSt 834
EffOrt 682
FanTaSy 467
Mini 434
Soma 347
Larva 296
Snow 238
[ Show more ]
Light 237
Zeus 205
ZerO 185
Last 159
Hyun 105
Dewaltoss 78
hero 74
Pusan 66
ToSsGirL 49
Sharp 39
PianO 33
Mong 32
sSak 32
JYJ 24
Shinee 24
Creator 23
sorry 22
Bishop 21
Sacsri 19
yabsab 14
scan(afreeca) 12
Noble 11
Terrorterran 6
Icarus 4
Dota 2
Gorgc3863
Dendi970
qojqva410
resolut1ontv 207
syndereN178
Counter-Strike
fl0m1773
olofmeister1303
Other Games
singsing2250
B2W.Neo726
hiko380
crisheroes229
byalli190
DeMusliM176
KnowMe113
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 25
lovetv 9
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 41
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 11
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
21h 19m
WardiTV Qualifier
22h 19m
Online Event
1d 22h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-13
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.