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Active: 1310 users

Light bulbs math problem

Blogs > jtan
Post a Reply
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 23 2008 18:26 GMT
#1
Yes this one is also pretty classic, I've seen it on tl.net before but without a proper solution!


So in a room you have a line of 100 light bulbs with individual light switches. All are off from start. Outside sits 100 people (perhaps the 100 prisoners?)

Person number 1 goes into the room and flips all switches.
Person number 2 goes into the room and flips switch 2,4,6,8...100
Person number 3 flips switches 3,6,9,12...
...
Person number i flips switches i,2i,3i,4i...

After all 100 persons have done this, what bulbs are lit?

And how many bulbs would be lit if there were n bulbs and persons?

Please don't post anything you didn't come up with yourself!

Good luck!

****
Enter a Uh
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 18:40:22
February 23 2008 18:39 GMT
#2
First thing that comes to mind is that

+ Show Spoiler +
all prime numbers will be switched off, since they are divisible by only one and themselves.


Maybe I'll think more about it later.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 18:41:05
February 23 2008 18:40 GMT
#3
more generally, if there's an odd number of factors, a light bulb will be on.

But factoring is NP-hard...
Sadir
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Vatican City State1176 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 19:00:27
February 23 2008 18:41 GMT
#4

+ Show Spoiler +

how many prime factors there are
u have to count prime factors, which occur double only once
but u have to consider the products of the prime factors

e.g:

2*2*3*5=60
it flips with 2,3,5,
4=2*2, 2*3=6, 2*5=10,
2*2*3=12, 2*2*5=20, 2*3*5=30
and 2*2*3*5=60

so there are 10 flips -> light on


jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 23 2008 18:44 GMT
#5
You can be more explicit!
Enter a Uh
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
February 23 2008 18:54 GMT
#6
+ Show Spoiler +
Well, all prime bulbs will be on. That's pretty much given though. Don't feel like thinking more atm.
Peace~
LTT
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Shakuras1095 Posts
February 23 2008 19:03 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +

Well, the only lights that are going to be on are the ones that have an odd number of factors. The only way a number has an odd number of factors is if it is a square number. Eg. Factors of 4 = 1,2,4; Factors of 36 = 1,2,3,4,6,9,12,18,26

This means the bulbs that will be on will be
1^2 = 1
2^2 = 4
3^2 = 9
4^2 = 16
5^2 = 25
6^2 = 36
7^2 = 49
8^2 = 64
9^2 = 81
10^2 = 100

For the case of n bulbs, there will be floor(sqrt(n)) bulbs lit.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 19:20:11
February 23 2008 19:10 GMT
#8
correct LTT! Any explanation to why it's just the squares that has an odd number of positive divisors?
Enter a Uh
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
February 23 2008 19:14 GMT
#9
On February 24 2008 04:10 jtan wrote:
correct LTT! Any explanation to why it's just the squares that has an odd # of primes in their factorization?


err do you mean odd # of factors?
jingXD
Profile Joined May 2007
United States283 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 19:17:21
February 23 2008 19:16 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +

my guess:

as Slithe said, a light bulb is left on if and only if it has an odd number of factors.

I claim that every number other than a perfect square has an even number of factors.

Say you're given a number n. For every factor f there exists another factor n/f. So for each factors come in pairs. To illustrate this, consider 12 (with factors 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 12 and factors "pairs" 1*12, 2*6, 3*4).

However, if you have a perfect square, one of the "pairs" reduces to a singlet because the "pair" consists of only one unique number. Consider 9 (with factors 1, 3, 9 and "pairs" 1*9, 3*3).

Thus, only the square of an integer will be left on after everyone flips a switch.

Now, if given a general n, exactly [[sqrt(n)]] - 1 light bulbs will be left on, since the number of perfect squares less than n is exactly the greatest integer less than sqrt(n). Consider n = 10 with 1, 4, and 9 perfect squares less than n and sqrt(10)=3.16227766.

So when n = 100, sqrt(100) = 10 light bulbs will be lit. Namely, #'s 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, and 100.



EDIT: wow, people are fast...
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 19:20:43
February 23 2008 19:18 GMT
#11
yes ofc slithe, edited
Enter a Uh
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 23 2008 19:34 GMT
#12
On February 24 2008 04:16 jingXD wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

my guess:

as Slithe said, a light bulb is left on if and only if it has an odd number of factors.

I claim that every number other than a perfect square has an even number of factors.

Say you're given a number n. For every factor f there exists another factor n/f. So for each factors come in pairs. To illustrate this, consider 12 (with factors 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 12 and factors "pairs" 1*12, 2*6, 3*4).

However, if you have a perfect square, one of the "pairs" reduces to a singlet because the "pair" consists of only one unique number. Consider 9 (with factors 1, 3, 9 and "pairs" 1*9, 3*3).

Thus, only the square of an integer will be left on after everyone flips a switch.

Now, if given a general n, exactly [[sqrt(n)]] - 1 light bulbs will be left on, since the number of perfect squares less than n is exactly the greatest integer less than sqrt(n). Consider n = 10 with 1, 4, and 9 perfect squares less than n and sqrt(10)=3.16227766.

So when n = 100, sqrt(100) = 10 light bulbs will be lit. Namely, #'s 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, and 100.



EDIT: wow, people are fast...


It's correct, gj.

Yeah people are too fast, only a few people get a chance to solve, so I guess it was a bit too easy.

I did the following:
+ Show Spoiler +

Primefactor n=P1^e1*...*Pr^er
number of factors=(e1+1)(e2+1).....(er+1)=odd <=> each factor odd <=> 2|ei for all i <=> n is square
Enter a Uh
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 20:27:07
February 23 2008 20:21 GMT
#13
+ Show Spoiler +

1
4
9
16
25
36
49
64
81
100


edit:

Yay

+ Show Spoiler [logic] +

This problem is all about number of factors.

If a number had an even number of factors (counting 1 and the number itself, not that it matters since they form a pair), then it will be off, otherwise it will be on.

Now, in order to get this number, all factors need to be paired, unless it is a perfect square, in which case, the factor pair will be the same number, and we can count it only once.

As a result, only perfect squares have odd number of factors.


+ Show Spoiler [solution checker] +

You can compile it using snippet compiler (which is awesome)

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;

public class MyClass
{
public static void Main()
{
int[] lightbulb;
lightbulb = new int[101];

for( int i = 0; i < 101; i ++ )
{
lightbulb[i] = 0;
}
for( int j = 1; j < 101; j++ ) // people
{
for( int i = j; i < 101; i+=j ) // lightbulbs
{
lightbulb[i] ++;
if( lightbulb[i] ==2 )
{
lightbulb[i]=0;
}
if( i == 2 )
Console.WriteLine( "j=" + j +", i=" + i +"\t" + lightbulb[i]);
}
}
List<int> on = new List<int>();
for( int i = 0; i < 101; i ++)
{
if( lightbulb[i] == 1 )
{
on.Add( i );
}
}
foreach( int temp in on )
{
Console.WriteLine( temp );
}
RL();
}

#region Helper methods

private static void WL(object text, params object[] args)
{
Console.WriteLine(text.ToString(), args);
}

private static void RL()
{
Console.ReadLine();
}

private static void Break()
{
System.Diagnostics.Debugger.Break();
}

#endregion
}
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
February 23 2008 20:21 GMT
#14
On February 24 2008 03:54 fanatacist wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Well, all prime bulbs will be on. That's pretty much given though. Don't feel like thinking more atm.


+ Show Spoiler +

They'll all be off?
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 20:36:11
February 23 2008 20:25 GMT
#15
That one is one of my standard math-puzzles I pull out when occasion occurs. A bit "standard", but I like it anyway. A very good problem for learning n00b puzzlesolvers. The version I heard was with santas little helpers running by and opening/closing the doors for santas raindeers. As long as it isnt a guard opening/closing prison cells, Im fine.

We should collect all these problems somewhere. Almost all of them are good.

EDIT: and speaking of light bulbs, have you seen this puzzle:

3 normal light bulbs. There are 3 switches for them somewhere far away (switches in cellar, you are at 10:th floor for example). You have to figure out which switch goes to which bulb by going down to the cellar only once. You know that if you go there a second time the horrible visit-counting Mega-Monster will eat you and all your babies and dintegrate the earth while at it. That includes your precious light bulbs. They bulbs start all turned off.

It's kinda stupid, I just came to think about it because of the bulbs. Some find it funny though.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-23 20:54:53
February 23 2008 20:53 GMT
#16
cascade: I hate that puzzle....it's physics not math

I generally don't like problems that end up having gay solutions, and a "moral" of "sometimes you can't use pure math/logic, sometimes you got to think outside the box!". I mean wtf, it's the conditions that are badly defined so that you should be fooled into making a false assumption; in that case that the system only have the boolean states of the lightbulbs as variables.

/rage
Enter a Uh
imDerek
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1944 Posts
February 23 2008 21:14 GMT
#17
prime numbers have 2 factors (1 and the prime itself) so prime numbers will actually be switched off.
Least favorite progamers: Leta, Zero, Mind, Shine, free, really <-- newly added
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
February 24 2008 01:16 GMT
#18
haha, I see your point jtan, and I agree. That's why I called it stupid. Still the "thinking outside the box"-point isnt all lies imo. But yeah, there are better excercises for that I guess.

Besides, YOU started it with your stupid light bulbs! You should have stayed on safe ground and used prisoners.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 24 2008 08:43 GMT
#19
or santas little helpers haha

but yeah agreed, that those kind of gay-problems can be fun sometimes, but it's frustrating when you spend time finding a proper solution, like I did first time I got that 3 lightbulb one
Enter a Uh
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