• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:37
CEST 19:37
KST 02:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course0Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1741 users

Happiness and the Poker Player

Blogs > PanoRaMa
Post a Reply
PanoRaMa
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States5070 Posts
February 16 2008 21:09 GMT
#1
This is x-posted from my liquidpoker blog (panorama.liquidpoker.net). I felt it was somewhat relevant enough to possibly include it into my now inactive TL blog too. acronyms: ssnl = small stakes no limit, msnl = medium stakes no limit. fish = newbies, cts = poker version of jaedong/savior/bisu/(whatever sexy bonjwa).
======

My essay today will be about my relative perception of "happiness" and what it means for the rising poker player. It is extremely relative in that people have vastly different ideas of what real happiness is, so what I'm writing isn't the end all for everybody, but what holds true for me.

This is my happiness meter. Yours may differ tremendously. On one hand I have the fish who are just regular people who may (or may not) play poker for fun and donk around. On the other side of the spectrum exists Cole "thuglife" South (I'm pretty sure that's what the T stands for) who I imagine to be the happiest person on earth. Your range may vary, but no matter what we all (inevitably) have a meter of our own.

[image loading]


The basis of this entry dwells on my belief that Money does buy happiness, but a material happiness and not an immaterial one. I think immaterial happiness refers to the genuine pleasure of doing things we absolutely love, being with people we love, and overall living a fulfilled life style. Material happiness is the happiness derived from spending money outside of what is necessary. I feel that immaterial happiness is superior, but as poker players we succumb to material happiness and our end goal (to be like cts) is to acquire both.

When we begin to start making serious money (anywhere between 100-400nl), we make a trade off between these two forms of happiness. Jurollo from the 2p2 forums said in regards to true happiness, "I think the job of online poker alone makes a lot of us unhappy. Its isolationist in its very essence and cuts us off from the outside world to an extent which contributes to [feelings of unhappiness]." btw anyone willing to pursue the topic further should really check that thread out: http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8966677

So the main issue when it comes to SSNL/MSNL and higher grinders is that we neglect fundamental aspects of our lives (social interaction, priority of values, etc.) for the pursuit of money which we think will make us happy in the longrun. If anyone has played WoW (and you haven't, just bear with me), you'll know that as you go through the level 1-59 grind, you anticipate the lavish joys of being a level 60 and doing all the "fun end-game stuff" (btw this is an analogy only suitable for pre-TBC expansion WoW). But once you get there you realize holy shit, I still have to grind so much more just so I can get to a point where I can be satisfied with my character. The point of this analogy is that we set goals for ourselves, which at one moment we think we'd be satisfied at, but when we finally achieve it, we yearn for more. Poker players are inherently greedy, and so by definition we could never be satisfied. When I grinded out 25nl I just thought "man if I could get to 100nl, I'd be sooo happy with 1k/month". What a jokebook that turned out to be.

So the MSNL player leads an unhappy life. We definitely make enough to sit back and enjoy our lives, but we're also at that critical point of "well I'm making $X now, but I just need to get this much better and then I can finally start playing 1knl and making $Y..". In other words, The MSNL player is frustrated because we're really at that breaking point between someone who can make good money from poker, and someone who can make an extraordinary amount of money from poker. Therefore we keep grinding, we keep devoting time to improving ourselves, and the sad part is many of us end up committing ourselves to permanently staying at 200 and 400nl because the extra stride is just too much (which results in increased unhappiness - to fall short of your goals).

On the other sides of the spectrum are the fish and cts. I believe the fish are happy because they only have one concern, money. Contrast to msnl players who have more concerns: money (because what we make is not "enough" ), and particularly meaningful social interaction (back to "immaterial happiness" ). We feel that we lack in both forms of happiness simply because material happiness isn't good enough for us - whereas the fish have the immaterial happiness, and would simply like some material happiness.

CTS on the other hand has officially won life and, ideally, has both. Of course in reality he probably has his own issues and whatnot, but my perception of someone like cts is that he has enough money to not care about being mediocre, and that allows him to set aside time to really cultivate his immaterial happiness. Just look at his blog and those pictures of Thailand, my god, what a gangster. I think I'm in love.

Well that's it for this topic so far. It's a hugely extensive topic that I could go on forever about, but I think I was able to convey the crucial parts of my thought process (lol) without being overly extravagant. Like I mentioned before, if you're interested in the subject of "true happiness", refer to the thread above where a lot of high stakes ballers chime in.

*****
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
12:00
Wardi Spring Cup
Zoun vs Percival
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs TBD
WardiTV1394
TKL 363
IndyStarCraft 234
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 339
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex 141
Railgan 96
BRAT_OK 95
JuggernautJason50
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
BeSt 413
Bonyth 106
Mind 51
Rock 34
Pusan 31
EG.Machine 18
IntoTheRainbow 12
GoRush 6
Dota 2
Gorgc6220
syndereN437
XaKoH 421
Counter-Strike
fl0m2282
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor400
Liquid`Hasu198
Other Games
gofns22806
Grubby2667
FrodaN2423
singsing1909
Liquid`RaSZi1526
Beastyqt561
Happy521
B2W.Neo497
monkeys_forever227
Hui .209
KnowMe170
ArmadaUGS117
elazer70
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2258
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV498
League of Legends
• Nemesis4115
• Jankos2074
• TFBlade1140
• imaqtpie909
Other Games
• Shiphtur273
Upcoming Events
BSL
1h 23m
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
14h 23m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 23m
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
18h 23m
Monday Night Weeklies
22h 23m
OSC
1d 6h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL
6 days
GSL
6 days
Cure vs TBD
TBD vs Maru
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.