• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:33
CEST 15:33
KST 22:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon108
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Where can I find Flash replays that work? a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7007 users

An interesting geometry problem

Blogs > Muirhead
Post a Reply
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 12:28:31
January 29 2008 12:24 GMT
#1
This one has many solutions, a few of which are rather amazing in my opinion.

Suppose O,V, and W are three circles in the plane, none of which intersect each other and all of which have different radii.

Given any two of the three circles, there will be exactly four lines tangent to both circles. Two of those lines will not intersect the segment connecting the centers of the two circles. Those two lines are called the common external tangents of the two circles.

Suppose the external tangents of O and V meet at a point P.
Suppose the external tangents of O and W meet at a point Q.
Suppose the external tangents of V and W meet at a point R.

Prove that P,Q, and R all lie on one line.



By the way: Would people like me to occasionally post nice elementary problems, like this one and the ones Slithe has been posting, or should this blog focus on more advanced mathematics? What subjects are most interesting to you?

*****
starleague.mit.edu
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
January 29 2008 15:02 GMT
#2
I wanna see the solution
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
January 29 2008 18:36 GMT
#3
I proved it using AutoCAD, does that count?

Meh, imageshack is being buggy and won't let me upload the picture.

Anyways, this gave me an excuse to refresh my CAD memory, so I guess it wasn't a total loss.

I now patiently await the correct answer.
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
January 29 2008 18:39 GMT
#4
I'll wait until tomorrow afternoon and then post the answer if no one gets it by then
starleague.mit.edu
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 29 2008 18:45 GMT
#5
I think I'm close to a pure algebra plug and chug solution, but I'm much more interested in seeing if there is an elegant solution.

Unfortunately I must now go to school, so I will continue this later. I'm sure by the time I get back polemarch will have found at least 3 different ways to solve it, thus making the problem look ridiculously easy.
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
January 29 2008 18:50 GMT
#6
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


There is a pic of it.
Zortch
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada635 Posts
January 29 2008 19:08 GMT
#7
Yea I was working on cranking out some algebra too...boring
Trying to find a nicer solution but I really should do my calc homeowork T_T
Respect is everything. ~ARchon
15vs1
Profile Joined November 2007
64 Posts
January 29 2008 19:53 GMT
#8
Analytical way of solution is the most obvious but not very elegant. I will post it later.
15vs1
Profile Joined November 2007
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 20:14:25
January 29 2008 20:04 GMT
#9
It is easy to show that point of intersection of 2 external tangents lies on the line connecting centers of circles and the distance between center of larger circe and intersection point is
[image loading]

where l_{12}
is the distance between centers of circles, r_1 and r_2 are radii of circles. Using this we can find the coordinates of the intersection point
[image loading]

where x_1 and x_2 are coordinates of the centers of circles. Similarly
[image loading]

Let us consider 3 circles now, 1st is the largest and 3rd is the smallest.
P - point of intersection of external tangets of 1st and 2nd circles
Q - point of intersection of external tangets of 1st and 3rd circles
R - point of intersection of external tangets of 2nd and 2rd circles
The coordinates of these points are as follows (we always can choose coordinate system so that x_1=0, y_1=0, x_2=0)
[image loading]

Let us consider vectors PQ and Pr and show that they have the same direction (it means these points lie on 1 line). The coordinates of these vectors are
[image loading]

Last equations are equal.
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 20:28:35
January 29 2008 20:10 GMT
#10
Yeah... once you realize that WQ is a multiple of WO based on the radii of those circles, it's pretty easy to churn out an algebraic solution. I started to do one with Cartesian coordinates then gave up out of tediousness.

Something slightly nicer (at least in terms of notation) is that you can use vectors to show that PR and RQ have the same direction by expressing them both as multiples of WV and WO.

There must be some nice solutions involving reflections or something... but I don't see any. Sorry to disappoint you, Slithe. Looking forward to seeing other solutions.

edit: Nice, 15vs1 - I'm impressed at the writeup.

Muirhead: I think this difficulty level is reasonable, with harder ones occasionally mixed in if you're intending to do it regularly. As for the types of problems, go with your tastes. I personally am not really a fan of geometry problems for the most part because I'm not very good at visualizing them, so I tend to resort to analytic geometry, which I don't find very satisfying. (Judging by your sig, I guess you disagree!) Of course, there are some problems that are really nice; or it'll all be worth it if you or someone else posts some beautiful solution to this one.
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 29 2008 20:42 GMT
#11
I don't have much of an intuition for geometry either, although I do find it interesting. I believe the answer I got via brute force was pretty much the same as 15vs1.

Currently, my intuition says that there's some way to use some crazy triangle properties to solve this elegantly. I could just be way off base though...
Daveed
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States236 Posts
January 29 2008 20:55 GMT
#12
More advanced mathematics would be interesting.
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 22:43:12
January 29 2008 22:34 GMT
#13
I admire your tenacity in working out the coordinates, 15vs1 . I wouldn't have the strength to carry it through.

+ Show Spoiler +
Perhaps the simplest way to do this is with Desargues' theorem, but I doubt everyone here knows that theorem. I leave it as an exercise to whoever knows it to fill in that proof.

Here is the elegant way:

+ Show Spoiler +


Imagine the plane containing the three circles as lying in three dimensional space. Suppose we are looking down on the plane from above, as we usually do. Construct three cones with bases equal to the three circles. Make sure that each cone is pointing up, towards us. Make sure each cone is right and that the height of each cone is equal to the radius of its base. This means that all three cones are similar.

Denote the tip of the cone with base O by A.
Denote the tip of the cone with base V by B.
Denote the tip of the cone with base W by C.

Now, we claim that the line through A and B passes through P. Why is this true? Well, notice that there is a dilation centered at P which takes circle O into circle V. Because all the cones are similar, this dilation also takes the cone with base O into the cone with base V. Thus, it takes A, the tip of the cone above O, into B, the tip of the cone above V.

Similarly, we have that the line through A and C passes through Q, and the line through B and C passes through R.

Thus, P,Q, and R all lie in the plane that contains the points A,B, and C. They also lie in the plane that contains the circles.

The intersection of two planes is a line
starleague.mit.edu
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 29 2008 22:37 GMT
#14
OK I think I have a cleaner method then brute force coordinates for solving this that uses more triangles. I didn't check whether my solution works yet, but have a look.

+ Show Spoiler +

So we have the three circles O, V, W, and the three intersection points P, Q, R. I'm going to make one assumption that I should prove first but do not feel like doing right now. The assumption is that I know the lengths of OP, OQ, and VR, via the ratios of the circle radii.
For example, |PO| = |VO| * (radius of O) / (radius of O - radius of V).

Now for the next part, here's a picture to help the visualization.

[image loading]


If and only if P, Q, and R are on a straight line, then the areas of the triangles OPQ and OQR have to add up to equal the area of the triangle OPR. Given this, we just need to calculate the areas of the triangles, which is not difficult because we can extrapolate most of the information.

Right off that bat we should know the lengths of OV, VW, OW. I also assume that my above equation is correct, in which case we should know OP, OQ, VR. From here on out, it's just simple trigonometric calculations, i.e. law of sines and cosines, heron's formula, to show that the areas add up correctly.
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-29 22:49:42
January 29 2008 22:41 GMT
#15
Slithe that works
I'm not sure it is nicer than coordinates though.

I don't like causing people pain, so all problems I post should have short, hopefully cool/interesting solutions. I just posted the answer to this one under spoilers.

Also, thanks for the feedback everyone.
starleague.mit.edu
15vs1
Profile Joined November 2007
64 Posts
January 30 2008 09:31 GMT
#16
Great solution. I would never find it but anyway i think you should give more time. Elementary math is not worse than advanced if the problem is interesting so i would be glad to see here any types of problems.
On January 30 2008 07:41 Muirhead wrote:
I don't like causing people pain,

I wish all professors did not like it too.
Elements
Profile Joined September 2007
United States13 Posts
February 20 2008 22:02 GMT
#17
How about by Menelaus it's obvious
Eh I'm late but I was just reading your other blog post
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #148 (SHIN Mod Edition)
CranKy Ducklings SOOP44
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech138
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4460
Jaedong 2947
Leta 2226
Soulkey 1939
EffOrt 969
Soma 566
Horang2 409
Mini 374
Rush 356
BeSt 328
[ Show more ]
Stork 264
Light 252
Pusan 174
Larva 170
Snow 164
ggaemo 158
Killer 134
Barracks 127
Zeus 119
firebathero 83
hero 73
Sea.KH 61
JYJ 61
Mong 55
Sharp 38
ToSsGirL 37
sorry 33
Bale 30
Aegong 29
Shinee 27
Sexy 20
zelot 12
Sacsri 11
JulyZerg 8
Shine 8
Rock 8
Icarus 7
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
Gorgc6597
qojqva1001
Dendi874
XaKoH 484
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_209
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes4091
Khaldor3
Other Games
gofns38701
singsing1661
olofmeister1361
B2W.Neo801
byalli571
Lowko356
Livibee196
DeMusliM185
mouzStarbuck161
Liquid`VortiX108
ArmadaUGS90
OGKoka 90
Chillindude10
Railgan2
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV539
Other Games
BasetradeTV200
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream199
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 19
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 21
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV329
League of Legends
• Jankos1634
• Nemesis1464
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
10h 27m
Kung Fu Cup
21h 27m
The PondCast
1d 20h
OSC
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Online Event
3 days
FEL
4 days
AI Arena Tournament
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.