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Math Problem 1/23

Blogs > Slithe
Post a Reply
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 23 2008 22:43 GMT
#1
There is a polynomial of the form ax^3 + bx^2 + cx = y, where a, b, and c are real numbers but not integers.

Easier problem. Find values for a, b, and c such that for any integer x, the solution y is also an integer.

Harder problem. Find a general solution for the possible values of a, b, and c that satisfies the above constraints.

****
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-24 02:28:39
January 23 2008 23:02 GMT
#2
Setting x=1 we see that a+b+c is an integer. (1)
Setting x=-1 we see that -a+b-c is an integer.

Adding, we get that 2b is an integer, so b=p/2 for some integer p.

Now, setting x=2 we see that 8a+4b+2c is an integer.
Thus 8a+2c is an integer.
Doubling (1) we have that 2a+2b+2c is an integer, whence 2a+2c is an integer.
Hence, 6a is an integer, so a=q/6 for some integer q.

Returning to the fact that 2a+2c is integral, we have that 6a+6c is integral. Thus 6c is integral, so c=r/6 for some integer r.

Thus all of a,b, and c are expressible as rational numbers with denominators equal to 6.



Suppose (a,b,c)=(u/6,v/6,w/6) with u,v, and w integers. We just need to check which values of (u,v,w) work modulo 6.

A brute force inspection shows that the exact working possibilities are those for which 3 divides v and 3 divides u+w, giving a complete list of solutions.

In short the solutions are all triples (a,b,c)=(u/6,v/6,w/6) where v and u+w are both divisible by 3.
starleague.mit.edu
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
January 23 2008 23:05 GMT
#3
haha... nice problem... thanks
It isn't combinatorics and therefore I can solve it...
starleague.mit.edu
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-23 23:14:20
January 23 2008 23:11 GMT
#4
never mind
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
January 24 2008 00:47 GMT
#5
ezpk murhead, ezpk...
My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
January 24 2008 02:57 GMT
#6
nice problem slithe; I wouldn't have expected an answer like that to pop out of the question. and nice solution Muirhead. I did it almost exactly the same way.

A little nagging part that you might've forgotten is that a, b, c are specified to be non-integers. this also makes it not require much brute force.. you can cut down the possibilities a lot immediately since you already deduced that 2b is an integer, v must be 3 mod 6, from which you can deduce u+v+w = 0 mod 6, so u+w = 3 mod 6.
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 24 2008 04:22 GMT
#7
Good job, you guys got it right. However, this problem wasn't too hard, so don't feel too good about yourselves! I'll post up another one some other time, and I'll try to make it a hard one, so get ready.
thoraxe
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1449 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-24 06:57:56
January 24 2008 06:57 GMT
#8
holy fucking shit, what kind of field studies is this? computers/math?
I'm barely in pre-cal, and although we've studied polynomials I just come up with a big '?'. I admire you guys for your intellect, you remind me of those guys of the show "The Big Bang Theory" (btw, good show...damn writer strike)

I love teamliquid.net
Obama singing "Kick Ass" Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghFBt-fXmw&feature=player_embedde
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 24 2008 08:45 GMT
#9
This problem does not really require computer science, but a decent level of education in math is needed. I am tempted to say that anyone who has finished precalculus has learned all the tools required to solve the problem, but you do need to have a solid understanding of the material, which comes largely with exposure and practice.

Although I don't think you need much beyond precalc to solve this, that isn't to say that I would expect the average high school student to be able to solve this problem. Just as a point of reference, most of the problems I post here, I get from other college students who have deemed these problems interesting.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
January 24 2008 08:50 GMT
#10
Speaking of education, I'm wondering what kind of education and experience you other guys have, because you guys seem to be quite good at this.
gwho
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States632 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-19 21:37:45
February 19 2008 21:36 GMT
#11
On January 24 2008 17:50 Slithe wrote:
Speaking of education, I'm wondering what kind of education and experience you other guys have, because you guys seem to be quite good at this.


it's usually experience and exposure to doing math riddles, more than a package that some institution gives ya. that's what my intuition tells me. i'm not all that good at these myself though. especially when they're like ... concept restrictions (intergers) than solving or figuring.
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