• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:26
CET 03:26
KST 11:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams9Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest3Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou23
StarCraft 2
General
Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival BSL Season 21
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
LMAO (controversial!!)
Peanutsc
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1599 users

My work for AMS

Blogs > ToT)SiLeNcE(
Post a Reply
ToT)SiLeNcE(
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany590 Posts
September 03 2007 20:41 GMT
#1
Hey !

Today I feel like writing about some of the experiences I made with my job as a junior physicist and how I contributed to the AMS particle detector, which will (after completion) be operated from the ISS space station.

It was an awesome opportunity to use modern technology and the really interesting physical background might even appeal to some of you.

The basic construction scheme of AMS can be seen on the bottom left of this website, which also holds some other information and many links to talks, etc. :

http://www1b.physik.rwth-aachen.de/~schael/AMS.html

AMS is being developed by about 500 physicists from 56 institutes and 16 countries. It is a multi million dollar project and will hopefully begin it's flight to the ISS in 2010. (There are some problems with the NASA, because the they canceled the flight but the last word has not been spoken there. The problem is that NASA wants to limit the remaining flights of the space shuttle because of the heat issue)

Ok, I'll start with some background information.
I am 22 years old and live in Aachen / germany, close to the belgian/dutch border. I study physics at the RWTH (which as an university is mostly covering engineering and natural sciences). I will start my 5th semester now and since the beginning of the 3rd semester I have been working for the "1. Physikalisches Institut B" (physical institute 1B) of our physics department on a 10 hours per week basis.

This position was a great chance for me to gather experience regarding the job as a physicst and to learn lots of new stuff about particle detectors, programming and scientific work in general. Also working in a team was great fun for me so far.

The AMS experiment is basically meant to count elementary particles in space. For example, some of the particles of interest are protons, electrons and positrons (the anti matter counterpart to the electron). This has to be done because currently only very little is known about the behavior of dark matter and anti matter. Also, there are some mysteries concerning the production of anti matter because the usual decay processes cannot be responsible for the production of all the anti matter in the universe. This is the place where dark matter enters as a possible production source.
There are theories involving new elementary particles in order to solve some of those riddles, and in order to test these theories a particle detector in space is needed.

Particles will fly through the detector and pass through the different elements of the detector.

For example the magnet is used in order to make the paths of particles bend so that particles with different charge can be separated by the curvature of their path in the tracker. This allows to separate electrons (negative charge) from protons/positrons (positive charge).

However it is also needed to separate protons and positrons because ideally you'd want to identify particles uniquely and measure their energy (or their velocity) with which they travel through the detector. Therefore additional means are needed.

One of these means is the transition radiation detector (TRD). I won't go into detail but the TRD basically uses a number of fleece layers through which the particle has to pass. If the particle is an electron / positron radiation will be produced and can be detected. Protons usually don't deposit any energy in the detection chambers. This way protons and positrons can be separated. (This detector unit is not enough though because the rejection of misidentified particles is not big enough, a separate and independent test is needed.)

My first assignments consisted of programming simulation routines and programs for the TRD. We compared monte carlo simulations with actual data taken in the "test beam run" at CERN (european research center in Geneve Switzerland) in 2000 and tried to find out how different construction and analysis parameters behaved. The main goal was to find out how well the seperation between protons and positrons was working out and how far it could be pushed.

After those things were finished I worked on the light transportation cables for another part of the detector (the ACC).
I found it somehow cool that my DNA on the cables will (hopefully) go into space :D

I worked on many other things and it was a really great time overall.

If you want to read more, please have a closer look at the website I posted. I also might come back and write some more if there is interest.

Your
Bastian

****
besiger
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Croatia2452 Posts
September 03 2007 20:47 GMT
#2
oh, this is more or less hard to understand to me, but it looks like fun and i will make a effort to read it more carefully
A weak will coupled with delusions of grandeur
fanta[Rn]
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Japan2465 Posts
September 03 2007 20:48 GMT
#3
it is hard to understand... nonetheless I want to read more about what you do! Keep posting please.
ToT)SiLeNcE(
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany590 Posts
September 03 2007 20:49 GMT
#4
Yeah I noticed that I wrote way to much about the physics and not enough about my own involvement
ToT)SiLeNcE(
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany590 Posts
September 03 2007 20:53 GMT
#5
Have a look at these pictures:

http://www1b.physik.rwth-aachen.de/~schael/AMS ACC Photos.html

In the bottom right you can see the panels we built. The green fibres produce light once a particle runs through them and this light will be transported through light transportation cables which I also helped to build.

Afterwards the light will be detected by detectors at the other end of those cables.
Jim
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden1965 Posts
September 03 2007 21:31 GMT
#6
sounds fun, is it common for students to work with a project like you do? I have probably studied very similar subjects in Sweden, however I have never heard of a student working in a team like you do. The only thing we do is help teach the younger students math (if you are decent and want to).
To sup with the mighty ones, one must climb the path of daggers.
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
September 03 2007 21:35 GMT
#7
more physics info please!

I like the information about the various theories/techniques
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
September 03 2007 21:40 GMT
#8
I guess detecting neutrinos is out the question.
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
September 03 2007 22:24 GMT
#9
That's cool. But I have a question, how hard was it to get involved/do they do these frequently?
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
Jim
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden1965 Posts
September 03 2007 23:48 GMT
#10
On September 04 2007 06:40 Physician wrote:
I guess detecting neutrinos is out the question.

Read this (atleast look at the picture!) http://strangepaths.com/the-sun-seen-through-the-earth-in-neutrino-light/2007/01/06/en/

To get an idea of how hard it is to detect them. Neutrinos are created in every reaction chain where H go to He through fusion processes. There is a tremendous amount of reactions in the suns core every second. Yet the resolution over 503 days from the sun isnt high. Very few neutrinos detected.

There was a famous supernovae 1987. About 30! neutrinos were detected..

Unless science has evolved very rapidly the last few months its impossible to build a space ship large enough to carry the required detectors. I think there would be a lot of noise due to bad shielding from other particles in space too.
To sup with the mighty ones, one must climb the path of daggers.
Clutch3
Profile Joined April 2003
United States1344 Posts
September 04 2007 00:26 GMT
#11
Nice write-up!

I always have fun talking to people who I know who are on these big collaborative experiments (Brown has a couple of profs working at D0 at Fermilab and also one prof doing dark matter searches with a collaboration in Italy). It's not my cup of tea (I like having more control over my experiment) but the hardware, planning and logistics involved in any of these high-energy/particle type projects astound me.

But yeah, small science/big science is always a fun comparison to make.
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-04 03:57:31
September 04 2007 03:56 GMT
#12
On September 04 2007 08:48 Jim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2007 06:40 Physician wrote:
I guess detecting neutrinos is out the question.

Read this (at least look at the picture!) http://strangepaths.com/the-sun-seen-through-the-earth-in-neutrino-light/2007/01/06/en/

To get an idea of how hard it is to detect them. Neutrinos are created in every reaction chain where H go to He through fusion processes. There is a tremendous amount of reactions in the suns core every second. Yet the resolution over 503 days from the sun isnt high. Very few neutrinos detected.

There was a famous supernovae 1987. About 30! neutrinos were detected..

Unless science has evolved very rapidly the last few months its impossible to build a space ship large enough to carry the required detectors. I think there would be a lot of noise due to bad shielding from other particles in space too.
and thus my pun.. I was prodding for fun, as in i.e the nerd in me made a joke; nice link though, thanks
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
MannerKiss
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2398 Posts
September 04 2007 04:18 GMT
#13
I feel very stupid after reading that.

Whatever it is that you do, its sure impressive.
I want an igloo.
OverTheUnder
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2929 Posts
September 04 2007 05:48 GMT
#14
very interesting, I had to read it a few times over (lol).


Honor would be taking it up the ass and curing all diseases, damn how stupid can people get. -baal http://puertoricanbw.ytmnd.com/
ToT)SiLeNcE(
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany590 Posts
September 04 2007 06:25 GMT
#15
Thanks for the replies so far.

Regarding the neutrino question:
Have you heard about the icecube experiment? The prof who gave basic physics lectures in my first 3 semesters is working for this experiment. I have read an article in a science magazine but I'm not an expert on this experiment. But here's a link :

http://icecube.wisc.edu/

About my position:
Yes it is rather uncommon for students to work for these kinda projects this early.
I had a lecture on data analysis given by this prof and afterwards he came to me and told me that I had big potential. He then went on to tell me that they are always trying to support gifted students and offer them positions working in modern experiments (although I know of only 2 people doing it currently).

I'm still very young and haven't even had any lectures on elementary particles / cosmology or anything like that. So most of the info I can give is what I learned at work and by reading. I am by far the youngest person in our institute.

The entire thing is more meant like a learning experience for me rather than producing results for them (which I obviosly do to some extent, but I can't match the big guns here since I still make beginner mistakes etc.).

To Clutch3:
I'm actually doing a lot of work for the "PEBS" experiment, too.
It is a very small experiment at the moment and has a lot in common with AMS. So I kinda see what you mean. It will get rid of the necessity to go into space and thus be very much cheaper. It is still in heavy design phase and none of it has been built yet. There are only 2 universities working for it (Aachen and Pisa / Italy).

Also I have a lot of colleagues working for the CMS detector at the LHC in geneve. That project is like so ridicolously big that I often feel it doesn't really benefit anymore.
Clutch3
Profile Joined April 2003
United States1344 Posts
September 06 2007 04:47 GMT
#16
On September 04 2007 15:25 ToT)SiLeNcE( wrote:

To Clutch3:
I'm actually doing a lot of work for the "PEBS" experiment, too.
It is a very small experiment at the moment and has a lot in common with AMS. So I kinda see what you mean. It will get rid of the necessity to go into space and thus be very much cheaper. It is still in heavy design phase and none of it has been built yet. There are only 2 universities working for it (Aachen and Pisa / Italy).

Also I have a lot of colleagues working for the CMS detector at the LHC in geneve. That project is like so ridicolously big that I often feel it doesn't really benefit anymore.


Yeah, working on the LHC or Fermilab large experiments (CDF, D0) is almost like being in the army. You're given very specific, set tasks and that's what you work on. It's an amazing thing that we are even able to do the things that those groups regard as the norm, but at the same time you don't have almost any control over the experiment. Plus, there's so many things predicted by the Standard Model that are out of our ability to test.

I will try to look up a little bit about the PEBS experiment. One of the experiments at Brown (the one some of my buddies are on) is written up here, in non-technical terms:

Dark Matters

And, by contrast, the experiments I do are generally 1-3 person affairs, and the total time to set-up the equipment to make the samples is about 6 months, while the time to set up a new variety of experiment ranges from 2 weeks to 2 months. So it's definitely "small science" in that sense. If you are interested, some of the stuff I've done lately is available here (all papers with Schrag as the first author give you an idea of my main research focus, the others are projects led by other people in the group I worked in at Brown or at the company I work for now):

Micro Magnetics publications page
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
01:00
Open Quali #2
ZZZero.O64
LiquipediaDiscussion
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
$400 PiGosaur #55
PiGStarcraft524
rockletztv 28
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft524
Nathanias 132
RuFF_SC2 128
NeuroSwarm 105
Nina 74
CosmosSc2 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 615
Sharp 105
Bale 88
ZZZero.O 64
scan(afreeca) 63
NaDa 49
Dota 2
monkeys_forever513
PGG 200
XaKoH 3
League of Legends
JimRising 522
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang01162
hungrybox488
Other Games
summit1g10222
shahzam628
Skadoodle187
ViBE163
Maynarde128
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick962
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 37
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift3625
Other Games
• Scarra704
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 34m
BASILISK vs Shopify Rebellion
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
OSC
9h 34m
CrankTV Team League
10h 34m
Shopify Rebellion vs Team Liquid
BASILISK vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
20h 34m
The PondCast
1d 6h
CrankTV Team League
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
4 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.