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Switchting from SC2 to Remastered

Blogs > DevilDriver
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DevilDriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany77 Posts
March 24 2020 11:05 GMT
#1
Greetings,
I have been playing SC2 since 2010 and got up to masters, while switching from not playing at all to being very active all the time. My history with Broodwar was basically playing campaign since I'm a a little kid, then starting with SC2 and coming back, knowing about esports and stuff, start a random 1v1 in the old Battlenet and gettin' beaten up hard, to not play broodwar for another 5 years or so.

Since the ASL launched and especially since the release of Remastered I have been watching Starcraft a lot. After all these years I got a little bored by SC2 and for some reason I am more excited about Broodwar than ever. It this game with a huge history, all these different popular players, maps and strategies. Looking at that from my perspective, I feel pretty hyped and there are so many little nuances to the game, that it kept being interested.

My motivation to start learning Broodwar is twofold: I discovered this awesome series from Day9, which has a very reasonable starting point and gives me some sort of direction. Also I experienced, that I played a few 2v2, BGH and ladder games. Of course I got still beat up, but I actually won some games. Due to my mechanics from SC2, watching ASL and playing the campaign through multiple times, I still suck, but I observed that there are even worse players actively playing. It is really motivating, that even now there is a realistic chance to win.

It is funny to play Broodwar with my prior knowledge, because while I play, I know how bad I am actually performing. I see these overminerals, the fact that I should expand, my production facilities are not in sync, I don't build workers, but I can't do ANYTHING. It is somewhat a pain, because I know I can do better in SC2, but here stuff just won't move as I want. At the same time I have a lot of fun. I sometimes imagined how I would relearn SC2, so this is kinda it, learning a new starcraft, which is similar in a lot of ways, yet very different. This feeling when I snipe lurkers with my marines, or when I use my camera to pump out mech units from my factories, then pick them up from the rally point, it feels very different from SC2, but it feels really good, because I need to work for it.

I want to give a shout out for the great content on Liquipedia. It has been much more helpful than the SC2 strategy part, since patches do not outdate the builds and stuff. Still, I feel when I try out a build order from there, it doesn't feel right, I feel like I am doing a lot of things a few seconds too late and I tend to have to many unspent resources. Next thing on my ToDo list is to analyze a replay from Flash and pay very close attention to the many little non-obvious things going on, like worker production, building placement and rally points.



****
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
March 24 2020 11:35 GMT
#2
Welcome to broodwar, you're not gonna regret it!
Broodwar for life!
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8284 Posts
March 24 2020 11:46 GMT
#3
Broodwar is life !!!!
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Branch.AUT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Austria853 Posts
March 24 2020 12:02 GMT
#4
How are you dealing with the legibility of map-terrain in broodwar? My biggest problem trying to switch, was that some tilesets and maps made it very hard to distinguish between pathable and not pathable terrain. This led to me blocking my own units into a corner time after time.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10192 Posts
March 24 2020 18:36 GMT
#5
welcome to the club. enjoy your stay.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
DevilDriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany77 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-24 19:45:51
March 24 2020 19:45 GMT
#6
@Branch.AUT I never really thought about it that much. As said, I played a lot of campaign, so I am kinda used to the clonkiness. There were two things I noticed specifically on Neo Blood Ridge: 1. Wall-Ins are weird! You cannot trust your eyes, when it comes to what units can pass and what they can't. Day9 suggested opening a single player map, turn on cheat codes and try out a lot.
2. I copied a wall-in for that map from liquipedia and all my rally points messed up, because my marines got stuck behind the depots of the wall.
Especially the way rally points and path finding works confuses me at times and costs me unnecessary clicks
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
March 25 2020 09:18 GMT
#7
How many hotkeys did you use in SC2? I'm just curious what people do for SC2 hotkeys.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
March 25 2020 11:53 GMT
#8
I also switched to Brood War like a year ago, the macro was the hardest aspect to get used to. I played Zerg in SC2 and went from using like 2 hotkeys to using all hotkeys from 1-0 in BW.

Do not regret switching, personally I enjoy the struggle not only against the opponent but against the game itself as well, very much Welcome!
Mine gas, build tanks.
DevilDriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany77 Posts
March 25 2020 17:59 GMT
#9
@ninazerg I have given my hotkey layout some thought, but I wouldn't say it's very sophisticated. I use 1-3 for Army, 4-7 for Production, F1-F4 for camera, F5/F6 for worker/army selection and remaped most production keys to be around the usual WASD layout. Also I use ^ for patrol.

@Akio How long did it take you, until you felt like you have some sort of smooth macro rythm, if you have already achieved that?
att
Profile Joined March 2020
128 Posts
March 25 2020 19:14 GMT
#10
Welcome to the club, enjoy your stay, stay hyped for ASL RO8 and all the cool koreans streaming quality f-in starcraft
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 09:05:10
March 25 2020 21:24 GMT
#11
On March 26 2020 02:59 DevilDriver wrote:
@ninazerg I have given my hotkey layout some thought, but I wouldn't say it's very sophisticated. I use 1-3 for Army, 4-7 for Production, F1-F4 for camera, F5/F6 for worker/army selection and remaped most production keys to be around the usual WASD layout. Also I use ^ for patrol.

@Akio How long did it take you, until you felt like you have some sort of smooth macro rythm, if you have already achieved that?

It definitely got a lot of games getting used to, especially since I decided to go with the original hotkey layout without changing any of the keys. Before ladder I played a lot of AI games to get used to the mechanics of the game though. As for how long it takes, I think that's also kind of up to what level you were in SC2. I was personally D1 so not very high and on top of that zerg in SC2 is...well...let's just say you can just build roaches

I would say that after getting used to the maps and their respective sim-city patterns and rough builds, the macro started to come relatively naturally. Good luck!
Mine gas, build tanks.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10675 Posts
March 26 2020 20:06 GMT
#12
Welcome! You will not regret this decision, the game has a steep learning curve (expect to lose a lot of games when you're starting out), but just don't lose sight of the fun factor, this is the best game ever made! Enjoy! DM if you ever need any help.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2277 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 02:27:21
March 27 2020 02:26 GMT
#13
Welcome to RTS adulthood
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3424 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 09:32:14
March 27 2020 09:17 GMT
#14
Why not just play both? Unless you're trying to be a pro or something.

I play both whenever I have enough time (first starterd BW back in 1999), both games kick ass.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
March 27 2020 11:43 GMT
#15
This was my experience moving from SC2 to Brood War. You can be one of the top 10% players in SC2 and still continuously get your ass kicked by mid-level Brood War players. This game is hard as hell, and all the things you took for granted like unit selection, MBS, auto mining, etc reveal your true weaknesses as a player.

I think we take the 50% win rate nudge from modern matchmaking for granted too. When I started out, I had like a 10% win rate for 3 months until I started to improve significantly. When anyone starts out playing this game 1v1, they have to be willing to get smashed in almost every game before they can finally hold their own, and that's a difficult mental state to live in.

(Also, completely unrelated side note: I've found that I actually need more army hotkeys in SC2 than BW. In BW, you get used to just either having small parts of your army in position where you need it to be or just drag click a lot. SC2 has a lot more moving parts that need to be responded to quickly. Obviously, BW uses more overall hotkeys because of buildings.)
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
March 27 2020 16:34 GMT
#16
Broodwar is a lifetime hobby. Welcome to the club.
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
DevilDriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany77 Posts
March 27 2020 16:53 GMT
#17
@True_Spike I didn't mean I'm ditching SC2 or something, maybe that came out the wrong way. I currently find Broodwar more interesting and fun to play, but I will for sure continue to play SC2 from time to time.
But also my free time is limited and it's easier for me to concentrate on one thing.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2040 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-30 07:59:59
March 30 2020 07:59 GMT
#18
On March 27 2020 20:43 EsportsJohn wrote:
This was my experience moving from SC2 to Brood War. You can be one of the top 10% players in SC2 and still continuously get your ass kicked by mid-level Brood War players. This game is hard as hell, and all the things you took for granted like unit selection, MBS, auto mining, etc reveal your true weaknesses as a player.

I think we take the 50% win rate nudge from modern matchmaking for granted too. When I started out, I had like a 10% win rate for 3 months until I started to improve significantly. When anyone starts out playing this game 1v1, they have to be willing to get smashed in almost every game before they can finally hold their own, and that's a difficult mental state to live in.

(Also, completely unrelated side note: I've found that I actually need more army hotkeys in SC2 than BW. In BW, you get used to just either having small parts of your army in position where you need it to be or just drag click a lot. SC2 has a lot more moving parts that need to be responded to quickly. Obviously, BW uses more overall hotkeys because of buildings.)


About the last part.

Try playing TvZ. You will quickly recognize you need 5 hotkeys for army that you dynamically update and constantly use (+building hotkeys obviously)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
March 30 2020 19:34 GMT
#19
On March 30 2020 16:59 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 20:43 EsportsJohn wrote:
This was my experience moving from SC2 to Brood War. You can be one of the top 10% players in SC2 and still continuously get your ass kicked by mid-level Brood War players. This game is hard as hell, and all the things you took for granted like unit selection, MBS, auto mining, etc reveal your true weaknesses as a player.

I think we take the 50% win rate nudge from modern matchmaking for granted too. When I started out, I had like a 10% win rate for 3 months until I started to improve significantly. When anyone starts out playing this game 1v1, they have to be willing to get smashed in almost every game before they can finally hold their own, and that's a difficult mental state to live in.

(Also, completely unrelated side note: I've found that I actually need more army hotkeys in SC2 than BW. In BW, you get used to just either having small parts of your army in position where you need it to be or just drag click a lot. SC2 has a lot more moving parts that need to be responded to quickly. Obviously, BW uses more overall hotkeys because of buildings.)


About the last part.

Try playing TvZ. You will quickly recognize you need 5 hotkeys for army that you dynamically update and constantly use (+building hotkeys obviously)

He's a zerg so I don't believe he's play much TvZ. On that point, ya, I use a lot more hotkeys whenever I play TvZ compared to say ZvT etc...
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
March 31 2020 21:44 GMT
#20
Maybe it's just the coronavirus but has there been way more new players on ladder lately? In the past few years whenever I tried laddering I'd get stomped by Koreans and then after my MMR dropped enough I'd get stomped by those same Koreans but this time on their smurf accounts. I've been running into dudes with 50 APM now and playing them is pretty comfy
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
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