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Canada11496 Posts
Alternate Title: The Last Star Wars Part I
So I made some comic strips from screen caps. I don't know that they're particularly funny because I'm not, by nature, comedic. And I tend to over-explain, whereas written and visual humour tends to be short and punchy.
With those caveats out of the way, here are the first batch. I'll release some more in a second and third part at a later date (unless I think of a few more to inflict upon you.) Hopefully you find them vaguely amusing. But at least they amused me.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZEGPozF.jpg)
Background: This took me awhile to cotton on to, because I assumed the Finn-Rose plan made more sense. But the film very explicitly states:
FINN: So the First Order's only tracking us from one Destroyer, the main one.
POE: So we make blow that one up?
FINN: I like where you're heading, but no. They'd only start tracking us from another Destroyer.
ROSE: But if we can....
FINN: If we sneak on board the lead Destroyer and disable the tracker without them realizing, then we can...
ROSE: They won't realize if it's for one system cycle. About six minutes.
The entire Canto Bight gambit relied on knocking out the Tracker secretly so they wouldn't switch another one on... from another Destroyer. They never actually solved the Tracker problem, which was The Main Conflict of the B-Plot for most of the movie. But that's just hand-waved at the end to get a semi-hopeful ending.
What's this? Another second blog, separated not by years, but by month? Yes. And I plan for a few more. You have not heard the last of me yet!
 
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Canada11496 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZBEHS8p.jpg)
Or an Alternate Version
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/KY5w9ve.jpg)
Background: I was told the shorter version is funnier, but I couldn't let go of my original idea, so I present them both to you: you decide.
So why Oracle of Delphi? I initially thought Rian had painted himself into a corner and just handwaved an exit. "There's no escape, we must have a last ditch battle." "Uh... that went poorly...now there IS an escape."
However, technically, Rian left himself an out. BB-88 scanned the Mine schematics- and so just part that was modified by humans. Later on, C-3PO allows that there human part could be connected to a natural cave system that leads out. But that sort of Oracle of Delphi sneakiness just makes me say 'Boo! Boo, to your shoddy script writing.'
That's bad form in storytelling. You don't hide information from the Viewer/ Reader that your Point of View character ought to know. It's very bad form. It's like if the main character in a detective story knows a piece of information that would solve the case the entire time, but he never actively thinks it until the big reveal, so that the reader/ viewer is in the dark the entire time. There's a reason that Watson is the Point of View character in the Sherlock stories, for instance. Sherlock knows a lot of things that we don't, but we learn things at the same rate as Watson, our PoV.
If you scanned something and say 'there's no way out', I'm going to believe you. But if you scan something, but you fail to mention that you didn't or can't scan the rest of the tunnels... boo on you. That's pretty critical information.
It could be solved by adding the line 'but the schematics do not cover the entire mine, there still could be a way out.'
But the problem is, that changes the stakes of the entire ending. It wouldn't make any sense to commit all your troops outside your near impenetrable wall to recreate the Hoth battle... you would instead bunker down inside the gate and use the rest of the troops to spread out and search the tunnels. Like a lot of story decisions in Last Jedi, many story elements are engineered 'just so' to get a particular moment or scene, but the in-universe logic doesn't support the moment or scene. The scene is usually shot beautifully, but it's a hack job to get both the last stand Hoth battle and an escape.
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Canada11496 Posts
And the last one for now:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/2AB5ky0.jpg)
I have an alternate version with one extra poke at the Dice, but I suspect it's not that funny, so I'll spoiler it:
+ Show Spoiler +
Background: This one thinks through Point of View information. What do the individual characters actually know? I suppose you could handwave this one with "Space Wizards for Kids"... but then don't come at me with how the film is Serious Art that Subverts Your Expectations. So unless we handwave Luke by granting god-like omniscience (maybe Luke read the script?), what does Luke know and what exactly was his plan?
Because it seems to me, without Rey going GOD-LIKE! LEGENDARY! in her fight against the TIE's, and returning to the scene at exactly the time she did... and possessing that tracker beacon to even know where the rebels were... the movie ended exactly how I depicted above.
I'm willing to grant that Luke knows Rey is in the area and is willing to help. Did he actually know that she had the tracker beacon on her? (Offhand, I think not, but I haven't rewatched the Rey-Luke scenes with that in mind.) Did he know that she knew that she needed to be on hand to pick up the survivors at that moment?
Did he know that Kylo would stop his entire force just to duel him- rather than send the stormies around while Kylo occupied himself with Luke (sort of the reverse of Episode I's stand-off between Maul and Qui Gon and Obi Wan: Padme and her forces didn't just sit on their butts and wait for the light show to end... they went around.) Did he know Kylo was that dumb? I guess Kylo was and yes the film lampshades it with Hux's feeble protestation, but lampshading doesn't mean anything when it's still a dumb move.
Luke's plan really only makes sense if he was actively coordinating with Rey- but there is no discernible evidence of this occurring. (Some Kenobi-like prompts in Rey's head might have solved this problem.) But like a lot of story elements in Last Jedi, events are contrived as though characters know the script, but not because it makes sense in-universe.
I half like the idea that Luke had no plan of rescue at all, he just came to die, but the survivors just assumed he was there to rescue because he finally showed up. My head canon in this case is that Luke was committing Jedi-suicide but things worked out anyways, but for all the wrong reasons.
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Finland963 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/126xd795ib501.gif)
On January 03 2019 10:57 Falling wrote:
Like a lot of story decisions in Last Jedi, many story elements are engineered 'just so' to get a particular moment or scene.
Yes. That's the point.
e: Rather than getting into another slapfight over The Last Jedi, I guess your aim here is to analyze the plot beats in order to work through the inconsistencies so you don't fall victim to the same problems?
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Canada11496 Posts
On January 04 2019 04:10 hexhaven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2019 10:57 Falling wrote:
Like a lot of story decisions in Last Jedi, many story elements are engineered 'just so' to get a particular moment or scene. Yes. That's the point. e: Rather than getting into another slapfight over The Last Jedi, I guess your aim here is to analyze the plot beats in order to work through the inconsistencies so you don't fall victim to the same problems?
Yeah, I don't enjoy slapfights. But for me the wheels fell off the story part way through (I haven't posted that comic strip yet of that particular moment), but I'm interested in why stories fall apart, when they do. Or if stories are really good, what makes them good. I find the process personally educational and an interesting exercise.
The following sentence after the one you quoted, is important- what I mean is in order to get the very particular scenes they want, they have to contradict previously established information or else ignore obvious implications if A information is true, then B follows.
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It's just a shit movie that killed the canon
why waste time even trying to analyze it :D
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If you need a hobby, what's wrong with laddering?
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Canada11496 Posts
On January 04 2019 22:43 LemOn wrote:
It's just a shit movie that killed the canon
why waste time even trying to analyze it :D
Well, I guess for a couple reasons. 1) I like(d) Star Wars, and so it's interesting to see how it breaks canon... or even how it is incoherent within the singular movie itself. 2) There was a very split reaction to the film, but the praise for the film really baffled me when it broke so many basics of storytelling. So I've been a lot of time trying to figure out why people liked it (which is not very easy because a lot of defences early on jumped on to the 'those disliked it are harassers, and sexists and racists' bandwagon. But as far as I can tell, if you liked it, you liked the surprises and/ or you liked the themes. ...but even still I find the film to be a mess on both counts- the narrative rarely supports the themes stated. (Show vs Tell).
And the third reason...
On January 05 2019 07:37 lechatnoir wrote:
If you need a hobby, what's wrong with laddering?
Nothing at all. But this didn't take that long. I tried it once before back and July and so a couple nights I couldn't sleep because all these ideas for screen shot comics just kind of arrived. So the next day I banged out probably six of them and then one more the following day. Probably I listened to one too many for/ against Last Jedi video and went crazy, haha.
I heard of it the other day- I haven't checked it out yet though.
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I don't necessarily want to get into a discussion, but I've been thinking of some plot problems and if anyone can explain any away, let me know!
-So the two fleets are engaged in an epicly slow race, but Finn and Rose are able to go off to another planet and then catch up?
-Can the FO not send for faster starships to come to their position? Can they not have half of their fleet make a small hyperspace jump ahead to intercept the fleet? Do they have no fighters? (I know they did have that one bombing run that killed The GOATsquid).
-Is the FO so rich that they can afford to just blow up valuable abandoned ships?
-We've killed the lightspeed kamikaze discussion but why couldn't they have done that with all the smaller craft? Or Just did that to begin with?
-I still think that the jump was dumb, but I think you could have avoided a lot of it by just doing a normal kamikaze.
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Canada11496 Posts
Do they have no fighters? (I know they did have that one bombing run that killed The GOATsquid).
I have another comic strip on this very thing. This was the first blow that shattered my story immersion in theatres (there were other knocks before then, but I was actively ignoring them). Relying only on information from the movies, you'd assume each one of those Destroyers would have a bunch of squadrons. After the fact, reading the literature makes it worse- the small destroyers are bigger than the ones from the Original Trilogy and are supposed to carry two wings of fighters- 12 squadrons of 12 fighters each. According to the movies, I would have guess hundreds of TIEs, according to the books, thousands.
-So the two fleets are engaged in an epicly slow race, but Finn and Rose are able to go off to another planet and then catch up?
And this was the killing blow to my immersion in theatres. This is actually the point of the film where all dramatic tension was destroyed for me. For the plan to make any sense at all, it assumes the the two sides will be on a treadmill for 18 hours with no new developments. And then to top if all off, I realized after the fact, if that is true, they could just shuttle most of the crewmembers out.
-Can the FO not send for faster starships to come to their position? Can they not have half of their fleet make a small hyperspace jump ahead to intercept the fleet?
There's a lot of idiot plotting in TLJ. That is, the story only works if both the Rebels and Imperials are idiots.
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I'm convinced that Leia only survived because Carrie Fischer passed away and everyone expected the director to kill her off. He has a boner for going "AHAHA you thought this was going to happen, NAH" even when it completely goes against all sense.
I was really looking forward to the movie and prepared to be hyped for ep 9 now I'm just super wary of what ep 9 can bring, part of me would even be happy if Fin wakes up in a cold sweat and says oh just a dream.
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On January 06 2019 12:44 Shock710 wrote:
I'm convinced that Leia only survived because Carrie Fischer passed away and everyone expected the director to kill her off. He has a boner for going "AHAHA you thought this was going to happen, NAH" even when it completely goes against all sense.
I was really looking forward to the movie and prepared to be hyped for ep 9 now I'm just super wary of what ep 9 can bring, part of me would even be happy if Fin wakes up in a cold sweat and says oh just a dream.
How could they film her scenes if she was dead?
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Canada11496 Posts
I think you just have her die when she got blasted out into space. As far as deaths went, it was unexpected, but I was thinking in the moment that I was pretty okay if this was the way they took out Leia. ...But then they brought her back to do absolutely nothing with her character for the rest of the film. A complete miss for some real pathos that the film sorely lacks.
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another case of "kid star wars fan grows up, realizes SW films are space operas with thin plots, and tries to blame it specifically on recent sequels instead of just accepting the nature of the franchise"? :D
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On January 06 2019 23:01 brickrd wrote:
another case of "kid star wars fan grows up, realizes SW films are space operas with thin plots, and tries to blame it specifically on recent sequels instead of just accepting the nature of the franchise"? :D
The plots of the old ones were thin but they were coherent at least. They were decent storytelling whereas the recent ones are quite a mess for all the reasons listed and more. But I think the biggest difference is that the old ones had sincerity and passion that just isn't there in these monstrous franchise mining productions of today.
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On January 06 2019 23:01 brickrd wrote:
another case of "kid star wars fan grows up, realizes SW films are space operas with thin plots, and tries to blame it specifically on recent sequels instead of just accepting the nature of the franchise"? :D
More like they were just bad movies. I agree they are space operas but I wouldn't say ep1-6 had a thin plot. Ep8 didn't really advance almost any of the story from Ep7. I grew up on episodes 1-3 and thoroughly enjoyed 4-6. 7 and 8 were just junk and I have little or no hope for episode 9 to be able to bring episodes 7 and 8 to a good close as they have already made such a mess of things.
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Canada11496 Posts
On January 06 2019 23:01 brickrd wrote:
another case of "kid star wars fan grows up, realizes SW films are space operas with thin plots, and tries to blame it specifically on recent sequels instead of just accepting the nature of the franchise"? :D
Naw, I watch big budget films with thin plots all the time, but they are coherent plots. Most Marvel films are pretty meh for my enjoyment, but usually don't rely on Idiot Plotting.
Or even in the new Star Wars films, Force Awakens, for instance is not much more than a rehash of IV, but at least it's mostly coherent (minus resetting the galaxy to Rebels vs Imperials  ). Rogue One was a coherent story, though maybe thin in characterization. Solo was competent but uninspired. There are incompetent space operas and there are competent space operas. Last Jedi is incompetent all the way through and incompetent in some very basic storytelling.
Not to mention, if you go with the 'it's the nature of the franchise' excuse then you cede the field of a lot of defenders that go with the 'it has Deep Themes, though'. Can't be both.
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Finland963 Posts
On January 07 2019 07:43 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2019 23:01 brickrd wrote:
another case of "kid star wars fan grows up, realizes SW films are space operas with thin plots, and tries to blame it specifically on recent sequels instead of just accepting the nature of the franchise"? :D Naw, I watch big budget films with thin plots all the time, but they are coherent plots. Most Marvel films are pretty meh for my enjoyment, but usually don't rely on Idiot Plotting. Or even in the new Star Wars films, Force Awakens, for instance is not much more than a rehash of IV, but at least it's mostly coherent (minus resetting the galaxy to Rebels vs Imperials ). Rogue One was a coherent story, though maybe thin in characterization. Solo was competent but uninspired. There are incompetent space operas and there are competent space operas. Last Jedi is incompetent all the way through and incompetent in some very basic storytelling.
Rogue One has Jyn Erso make the most important decision in the film completely out of the blue, meaning the entire climax of the film is undermined, and yet the film's incoherent plotting never received the same kind of vitriol that Last Jedi did.
There's this tendency, probably magnified by legions of online fans, to view films as logic puzzles, and I think this is partly the reason the film is so divisive.
There's also probably grounds for a reading of TLJ where it's a piece about Rian Johnson trying to come to terms with making a new film for a franchise he's loved since he was a kid, and the massive amounts of pressure he's facing. The new film needs to be fresh and innovative, but not so innovative as to be alienating. How do you please a new generation of film audiences while also keeping the old breed happy?
Johnson's style obviously did not sit well with a lot of viewers, so maybe Abrams will try for something closer to Force Awakens, where the viewer can safely wait for the movie to unambiguously tell them what to feel at any given moment.
On January 07 2019 07:43 Falling wrote:
Not to mention, if you go with the 'it's the nature of the franchise' excuse then you cede the field of a lot of defenders that go with the 'it has Deep Themes, though'. Can't be both.
What? You might want to expand on this.
On January 05 2019 17:58 Jerubaal wrote:
I don't necessarily want to get into a discussion, but I've been thinking of some plot problems and if anyone can explain any away, let me know!
-So the two fleets are engaged in an epicly slow race, but Finn and Rose are able to go off to another planet and then catch up?
Yes.
On January 05 2019 17:58 Jerubaal wrote:
-Can the FO not send for faster starships to come to their position? Can they not have half of their fleet make a small hyperspace jump ahead to intercept the fleet? Do they have no fighters? (I know they did have that one bombing run that killed The GOATsquid).
Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but no ships arrive on time. Either they can't or they won't. They pulled back the fighters.
On January 05 2019 17:58 Jerubaal wrote:
-Is the FO so rich that they can afford to just blow up valuable abandoned ships?
Yes.
On January 05 2019 17:58 Jerubaal wrote:
-We've killed the lightspeed kamikaze discussion but why couldn't they have done that with all the smaller craft? Or Just did that to begin with?
According to the movie, it's a last ditch effort that succeeds because the First Order fleet command is distracted.
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Canada11496 Posts
Rogue One has Jyn Erso make the most important decision in the film completely out of the blue, meaning the entire climax of the film is undermined, and yet the film's incoherent plotting never received the same kind of vitriol that Last Jedi did.
How do you mean? (I've only seen Rogue One once.) Which decision are you referring to? I mean, I have some minor problems with it- I'm annoyed that the Rebel command just chooses to sit on their hands. I'd like to see some competent commanders for a change. But no, Rogue One didn't receive backlash, probably because the film set up its own promises and then paid it off, rather than playing an endless series of 'Gotchas'.
I don't mind surprises. I do mind if there's nothing in the box.
And then almost nothing in the cruiser scene makes sense in basic storytelling terms. Season 1 Episode 1 33 from Battlestar Galatica had the same set up and solved the problem in 40 minutes in a much more understandable way without diffusing the tension on a sidequest away from the chase.
What? You might want to expand on this.
I'm just noting that you cannot both argue "Space Wizards for Kids" to dismiss story problems, while at the same time arguing 'the themes in Last Jedi are super deep'- a consistent line of argumentation from defenders. He hasn't, at least not yet. But I'm saying, he won't be able to (consistently) if he takes that position. (I don't think it's particularly deep myself, but then Star Wars never has been, beyond utilizing the monomyth.)
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/a4hQIBu.jpg)
