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Star Tale: Ground Wars

Blogs > Jukado
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Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-07 21:16:25
March 12 2018 12:12 GMT
#1
Star Tale: Ground Wars

Its 12 minutes past 12 on the 12th day of the month. Here is another Star Tale blog. Everything in Star Tale is public domain.
This time Im going to introduce Star Tale: Ground Wars.

Star Tale: Ground Wars is the name given to the strategy game parts of the overall Star Tale project.

Each player gets "60,000" points to spend on a custom army. You create your custom army in your own time before entering a battle.

You can purchase from a medium selection of infantry, vehicles, mechs, and aircraft etc and customise their armour, weapons, equipment and skills etc.
If you spend all your money on the highest quality Main Battle Tanks, you can have around 60.
If you spend all your money on the biggest Mechs (called Archons) you can have around 12. (these are massive mechs, equivalent to Warlord Titans in warhammer 40k)
The cheapest Infantry can be massed in large numbers but often you will want to buy transport vehicles for them, plus support vehicles and heavier Infantry etc to have a well rounded army.
It is possible to have hundreds, if not a few thousand troops if you want to spend all your money on the very cheapest infantry though.

So there is this custom army list building aspect to the game that you can spend time on in your lunch break or on the train, or whatever. Building your custom army list can be as easy as picking a ready made list, or you can spend hours and hours, days, weeks, a lifetime, tweaking it to perfection in great detail.
There are no restrictions of how many of each unit you can have. So you are allowed to spam 1 unit type if you wish. (some people might say: "Cheese lists will be too powerful then. Jukado doesnt have a clue. Star Tale is rubbish.")
Read on, I touch on this later.

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Once you have prepared your army list, you can go into battle.
You start the game with your full army and there are no reinforcements.
There is no base building or resource gathering in normal battles.
The scale of the battle is bigger than a skirmish but not quite so large as grand strategy games.

It is highly likely that players will start the game with relatively very asymmetric armies even if they are using the same race.
Remember there are 7 main factions in the Star Tale world that you can choose from. See the previous blog here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/529386-star-tale-factions

Moving units into position has a lot of importance. Often you will be using transports to ferry your infantry. Controlling advantageous terrain and strategical positions is valuable. (this is not done through a miss chance on high ground though like in Brood War, as there is no luck in Ground Wars).

In terms of game design, its a mixture between being tight, elegant, simple etc and with having a lot of complexity and customisation.
I love abstract games that are very lean. I also love games that are grognard heaven with tonnes to learn if desired. No game can be the perfect solution for every situation but with Star Tale: Ground Wars I try to hit my own personal happy medium between the two.

It is designed to be relatively easy to learn, incredibly hard to master. There are ways to get started quickly too, by using pre-made armies etc.
While it is meant to be accessible for newcomers, it is absolutely a game designed to be fun for experienced wargamers like yourself.
Similarly, it can be enjoyed by people who prefer narrative led single player and by those who enjoy relaxing PvE and co-op etc, but it is absolutely designed for highly competitive PvP (and potentially PvE and co-op etc), speedrunners and esports.
Its good for casual or hardcore, there look I used the labels, sue me.
But what Im saying is that I am always approaching every element with a hardcore PvP 1v1 esport mentality, but I take into consideration casual play too.

For example, there is no RNG anywhere in the game. Im aware that some people who put themselves in the hardcore category still like an element of chance in their games, but Star Tale: Ground Wars has none. Although there is enough complexity going on that sometimes you will engage in a fight and not have 100% certainty what the outcome will be because a human cant compute it all quickly enough, but a supercomputer would be able to. So we still have some fog of war but without dice rolling.
(some people might say: "What if one player luckily chooses the perfect counter army to the other player? Is the game decided already just by comparing the army lists? If so, that is a huge amount of luck and very bad game design.") (and other kinds of luck such as this)
There will always be a boundary that a player can push up against (and should). But because the starting armies are large and units have some flexibility in the targets they can engage with, a player will never be left with no options. How you use your army will always be crucial in determining who is the victor. Additionally, I do my best to design such that a flexible combined arms force is the most effective strategy. Also, gamemodes have been designed that alleviate this. There are all sorts of options available to a game designer to affect this, so that even a Best of 1 will be fair and fun for both players. An example would be that players pick "50,000" points worth of army, then reveal their lists to each other, and then get to pick the last "10,000" points to tailor it against the enemy. Theres alot of options like that. On top of those things, tournaments can use formats that further minimise it. I just want you to know Im fully aware of potential pitfalls here, and know how to make it balanced for both players still (while maintaining the customisation options). Game design in general is always some sort of choice on a scale between 2 extremes though, hopefully our tastes are roughly similar.

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Star Tale: Ground Wars is a long term project. Its not like a big company franchise where there is a new shiny version every year just before christmas. Everything is public domain anyway so you can always get hold of it for free. Once everything is out, I intend to leave it alone for a year, then make small adjustments if needed. Then wait another year and repeat this for a few years. Then the gaps between tweaks will become longer; every couple of years. Eventually the game will only be revised every 6 years or so. This is another reason why Star Tale is a good project to get behind, because its designed from the ground up for the long haul.

Q. Why is it called Ground Wars?
A. In the Star Tale universe, interplanetary movement is mostly done using Jump Links. These are large platforms that are found on the surface of planets that can teleport whole armies at once from one planet to another. Therefore large spaceship fleets are not the primary way for militaries to exert power. Instead they invest in Ground Armies with atmospheric air support. Controlling ground, controlling transport routes on the surface of planets, controlling Jump Links etc, these are the most important objectives for commanders. They cant just build a fleet of spaceships, fly to an enemy system then bombard the planets from space. Thats not an option. Instead they must move Ground Armies through Jump Links and assault the enemy on the planet surface.

When playing a game of Star Tale: Ground Wars:
Squads are often put in rectangular formations.
Simultaneous turn based action is common. (games are still fast paced though, by using various clocks)

Q. Is it I go, You go turn based? (like warhammer 40k where 1 player moves all his units, then shoots all his units, then assaults all his units, while the other player waits for his turn)
A. No. That style of gameplay has problems. Firstly its too slow and boring because one player sits there waiting while the other does everything for a while. Another problem is "first turn advantage" (technically its not necessarily always the first player who gets the benefit). One player might be able to do a lot of damage to the opponent all in 1 turn. Then when its the opponents turn to respond they have a lot less firepower left available. In general there is less interaction between players, less opportunity to react to your opponent.
Instead Star Tale: Ground Wars uses squad activation. Ill talk more about all this in the future.

I want to clarify that Star Tale: Ground Wars is suitable for fast paced videogames. It isnt necessarily real time gameplay, but it can be played with a very fast clock (we are talking seconds here).
Also, if I am able to make a full video game one day on the scale that I would like to be able to, LAN (local area network) is a certain priority. Not just as an option, but the core gameplay will be built for LAN first. The true game would therefore be LAN only. The internet multiplayer version of the game would technically be just that, a slightly different version to the real game.

This entry doesnt go into game modes at all, and other grander possibilities that I have spent time working out. We'll save some of that for later.

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Last month we looked at the Star Tale Class system:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/531120-star-tale-classes

These classes are used in Star Tale: Ground Wars as the start point when choosing your Infantry. After you have done that step, you can pick what Armour to put these Infantry units in. We will have a look at Infantry Armour options next time.

So thats an introduction to Star Tale: Ground Wars. As always, everything is public domain. You are free to use anything however you wish. See you next month on the 12th.

Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
March 13 2018 14:42 GMT
#2
Just curious... is there anything in place to prevent people from just camping a single strategic area?
Skill is relative.
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
April 11 2018 22:00 GMT
#3
esReveR: "Just curious... is there anything in place to prevent people from just camping a single strategic area?"


Hi esReveR. Like I say I havent talked about game modes yet. The victory conditions require movement. Part of it involves capturing objectives out on the map. This topic will get its own dedicated blog post later, and that will answer your question properly. But for fun Ill continue.

(btw technically I would say you cant actually camp a single area (with the whole army) because your army is too big. What I mean is, even if the whole army is kept together as much as possible it will still be occupying quite a large space, and the enemy may still be able to isolate and engage a part of it favourably. But anyway...)

Lets talk about camping for a bit then. We'll address 2 ways; "camping" with the whole army in general, and camping with just a portion of the army in a small section of the map.

Camping with the whole army:
+ Show Spoiler +
First is about Gunline army lists. A Gunline army is predictably an army designed to do a lot of long and medium range shooting, rather than get into close range firefights or melee combat. Here we are talking about the overall game plan, the concept behind the army. A player using this strategy is trying to position their units in a way that lets them maximise the firing arcs and take advantage of the long range of the weapons to do enough damage to the enemy before the opponent can get into close combat. And they will be trying to setup in ways that exploit the terrain to funnel and slow the enemy advance. While this strategy doesnt require lots of the fastest transports and most of the army wont travel across the whole map as much as some other styles, it still requires skillful movement and usage of squads.

You have to get them into good positions initially.
You might choose to place some squads out in front to bait the enemy forward or to screen your more valuable units.
You have to move squads to react to what the opponent does.
You may prepare some units at a location to deal with flanks or to plug gaps.
You might use a few cheap fast units to tie up enemy squads or to try and grab uncontested objectives.
And you might want to retreat the frontline back as the enemy closes and catch them in a crossfire etc.
Theres a lot of movement and skill involved but some people may at first label this camping so Im including it in the discussion.

There is nothing stopping a player from choosing a Gunline style army and trying to use it. However, depending on what the opponent does, the Gunline user will probably need to move up the map at some point with atleast some units, if not most of the army if they want to actually win the match. The other player will have had the opportunity to get into better positions around the halfway line of the map etc, and as the Gunline moves forward this opens opportunities for the other player to launch attacks at the now exposed rear aswell.

If the Gunline player doesnt move up the map much at all, they risk not having enough space to manoeuvre and might get surrounded but more realistically they might just lose the game by not securing enough objectives out on the map.

Proper skillful usage of a Gunline army list will still be a viable choice though and thats a good thing. The idea is that while yes this style of "camping" is possible, it is not the only viable playstyle. Other styles have methods to close the gap and engage the enemy. It comes down to execution, knowledge and skill of the players to decide the outcome of the game.

The overall game time clock and the victory conditions requiring players to capture objectives out on the map and things like this will eventually force a player to move forward if they want a chance at winning the match. But one of the most important factors affecting whether you will want to move forward or retreat is the direct interaction between the two armies. A Gunline user (even if they are playing very conservatively) can be broken by a skillful attacking player. Its not like you have to wait for them to come to you! See part 2 below...


Camping with just a part of the army:
+ Show Spoiler +
The second topic is about camping with just a portion of the army to hold a small area of the map.
If a player invests a decent number of points into buying strong defensive units and kits them out in a skillful way, and then manages to deliver them to a strong defensive position somewhere on the map then they are playing this aspect of the game well. The units are able to perform more cost efficiently now that they are set up in their optimal way. But the opposing player does have tools available to try and dislodge the defending units if they want to.

Here are some options:
-Bombard them with artillery.
-Shoot them with sniper weapons from range.
-Cast area of effect spells to damage or debuff them.
-Weapons such as flame throwers might be very effective in these conditions.
-Use equipment to support your advance to take the position.
-Attack on multiple fronts with fast moving light cavalry type units.
-Airstrike.
-Air assault.
-Other more exotic methods of assault.
-Overwhelm with a horde of cheap units.
-Potentially exploit a weakness of the defenders if they arent prepared against a certain tech unit.
-Go head to head and use your own elite units to smash the position in a direct firefight or close combat,
and attempt to just outplay the opponent with superior micromanagement.

Or you can approach the problem sideways using tactics such as:
-Intercept the transports before they arrive at the destination.
-Beat them to the destination using faster transports.
-Choose to sacrifice a greater points worth amount of your own units because you decide that dislodging the enemy from that position (even with an inefficient trade) outweighs the loss of units. Or conversely..
-Let them over invest in taking that area, and instead secure more objectives elsewhere on the map.
-Contain their units into that small area with cheaper units of your own that are good at engaging if the defenders try to leave the area.


A 3rd bit:
I suspect your original question was more about the first part of my reply, ie camping with the whole army as an overall strategy. Once again, the victory conditions require you to secure objectives out on the map, and the game clock etc contribute to encouraging direct interaction. And again, all of this will get its own dedicated blog post later on explaining the game mode.

Also, its not camping, its tactical waiting

Tomorrow is the 12th day of the month, so expect another Star Tale blog. As I mentioned before it will be about Infantry Armour options.
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 12 2018 02:12 GMT
#4
Why 60,000? Why not 3,499,219,200,343,583,888,987,392,039,235?
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-15 16:15:31
April 14 2018 12:55 GMT
#5
On April 12 2018 11:12 ninazerg wrote:
Why 60,000? Why not 3,499,219,200,343,583,888,987,392,039,235?

I considered that number as it is ofcourse one of the logical choices, but eventually it was removed from the short list.

In warhammer 40,000 the number of points used is often 2000 but other amounts can be used and are, eg 500, 800, 1000, 1500, 1850 etc. Its the same with Star Tale: Ground Wars. You can choose to do a much smaller or larger battle if you want. But Im designing around 60,000 as the standard amount. Your comment suggests that the number is a bit uncomfortably high in a way. I agree that it is much larger than what warhammer uses. However, its not actually complicated or hard to do the maths really because you might choose to make a 1000 point section of an army and then repeat it a few times etc.

For example a fully kitted out Main Battle Tank is roughly 1000 points. You might want to take around 20 or them so thats a third of your points allowance accounted for. Its not so bad. Calculators come in handy as well.
It was a difficult decision to choose the amount of points though, I spent a long time choosing it. I dont want players to feel overwhelmed. But at the same time I want it to feel like you have a lot of choice and are controlling a large army. I decided to give the players the benefit of the doubt and trust their ability to handle 60,000 as the standard amount when picking your custom army. Hope you like it!

(btw technically its not really 60,000 in the expected way. If you've been paying attention then you might be able to guess what i mean).
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
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