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Your impression / feedback needed! Art Tutorial

Blogs > Glider
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Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 18:34:42
December 12 2017 23:39 GMT
#1
I'm not asking anyone to pledge, this is not about funding, just feedback on my video design

Hey guys, Glider here. So i been drawing stuff for a decade now? have some audience online here and there. (tho youtube screwed me over big time by no longer send out notifications anymore, effectively render 95% of my subscribers useless and YT care only about view length and not thumb up/down etc. (both are treated as samething)

Anyway long story short, I did some Hollywood project, credited in film/book, did some commission for ceos and officials of state. Basically I could be sitting pretty and just do commissions, but that's not what I prefer.

I much prefer just make more art videos for a lot more ppl to enjoy and making tutorials to teach people everything I know. A shame that i have to use all my experience to serve a few when I could help a lot more. Don't even give a shit if I make a lot less in the process.

So i'm trying to make a patreon thingy, ask ppl to support, they would get reward. But this ultimately allows me the time to make more art contents and tutorials for everyone. Let me know how the video feels to you, is the pacing good, clarity, is it effective, does it lose you somewhere etc . (consider avg ppl online have the attention span of a house cat on crack)

This is a secret link so don't share unless you have to. any thoughts and feedback is appreciated. If something significant is raised that makes sense i'll change it, otherwise I'll just throw it out there and w/e happens happens. thanks!
edit updated video after further tweaking



*****
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 04:13:12
December 13 2017 03:06 GMT
#2
I''m gonna be blunt:
You are trying to fit way too much stuff into way too little time.
The right reaction to the short attention-span of ppl in the internet isn't to pack maximum amount of content into the shortest amount of time possible, but to keep it short and simple and get to the point fast.

Instead you show different projects off for over 2 minutes to show that you are qualified as an artist. But people who are considering becoming patreons know your channel, so that doesn't develop your idea at all. Then you explain your idea for less than a minute and suddenly jump into a motivational speech from a different video for 40 seconds, trying to weaken an argument that is mostly made as self-defense by people who've given up on that topic. Then you go back to advertising Patreon without interlude (thought it was part of the other video at first). So half of your video is basically off-topic and doesn't develop what you are trying to say.

Also the speed at which you switch pictures is way too high, you try to cram way too much into it. Most people need more than a second to understand pictures, I'd argue that switching your entire scene faster then every 5 seconds creates stress. Fast cuts are okay in a hype trailer where they create a feeling of action and chaos, but that's undesirable in an advertisement/explanation that mostly relies on speech.

+ Show Spoiler [suggestions] +

I'd prolly cut the start/showing off part, either completely or down to max 5 pictures with 5 seconds each minimum. People who are watching your videos know that you are a good artist, you don't need to show that. Also your pictures need some time to breathe. Consider showing the actual pictures and not the videos.
I'd definitely cut out the motivational speech from your talent vs practice video, it lacks a clear ending, your speech pattern is different and it doesn't really serve a purpose here.
I'd probably develop some sheets that show the idea as a diagram like the one at 2:55 and have them in the background for 10 seconds+ while you explain your patreon community idea.
The last 2 minutes are mostly good. I'd probably slow down the video of the young man at the end and show only that, I think it's a good recruitment poster and atm you end the video with a 3/4 finished picture of a young woman who doesn't look into the camera (which is also at the top of your patreon page that you show before).
low gravity, yes-yes!
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 06:20:30
December 13 2017 05:07 GMT
#3
Fair points, all blunt feedback welcome. Somethings to consider. (boring ass long thoughts)
+ Show Spoiler +

This will not be the only video regarding what I'm trying to do and is really NOT targeting people who are my core fans. Ppl that knows me either support me or they don't and they already know what I can do. The video really aims at people who don't know what I do, or what patreon is. I have to wow them first before they even consider anything. Cuz otherwise of course it would be, who the f r u and why are you qualified. So it goes like this:

1) I want to make more content / tutorial for you
2) this is what I can do / why I'm qualified
3) This is how it can be done (Through patreon) + motivational stuff
4) example of lesson plan for those who wants details + benefits for those who don't care about learning
5) thanks / bye
(not sure how I can make that even more simpler or to the point)

With out the showing off stuff at beginning (in older version i have placed it later on), ppl are mostly gone in the first 5 to 10 sec. Why would they be staying to watch me pitch patreon, i'm just a stranger. Once they are wowed, suddenly they are more interested staying and hear what I'm gonna say. A lot of people here know what I do, but you have to think like a stranger. If i get straight to the point but with nothing to back it up, ppl also go straight for the exit. What are you passionate about? Lets say free running. Imagine you see a vid like this: some random guy comes on, says he wants to make tutorials , then get straight to the point of HOW and where to sign up... are you gonna even consider be a part of it? I mean he did get straight to the point. But it would be a failure since he didn't demonstrate why he is qualified. If he comes out , says he wants to teach, and start doing some crazy shit that impresses you, now you might stick around and hear the pitch some more. And you want me to remove that showoff part?

The motivational stuff basically says everyone can do it and that most drawing is a SKILL (it's in the full vid and maybe i can add some text on screen to enforce that). To not include that and just say F-it to ppl who don't believe they have the talent to draw is precisely the myth that need to be addressed. It's a market that's not served. A land of people who have no shoes and I know for a fact you can convince someone who thinks they can never do it, that they CAN drawing in under 1 hour. (my rec is about 20min, not first time teaching)

The out of place slower speech pattern and the giant excerpt text on the screen is exactly what could help separate the clip out from the main video. So consider the out of place a good thing since I specifically says: a clip from another video is coming up regarding talent vs practice. It also provides a change of pace / rest. It is important to tell people that you don't need a rare extra 6th finger on each hand to learn the piano in a land where a lot of people have that misconception..especially when you are trying to do a piano tutorial thing. Most people who reaches that point of video are already hooked to the video.

speed...the speed imagery is meant to dazzle as a group, its not hard to follow in that sense nor do they contain too much info. You mentioned yourself the attention span is short. Regarding the "showing off part", people will get the idea, and can't look away...if they want to see the slow version i mentioned a lot more is in my channel. Then from there the video goes straight to the screen of patreon, then to the lessons sample structure. The only info is what I want to do, showing a bunch of fun stuff, then the how. Where is the info overload in that?

Now the few slides of lesson plan does go by fast but they are also a group. People who are interested in learning and want a closer look, I assume I don't have to say there is a pause button and treat them like idiots. Plus polling have shown about 50% of viewers just cares about entertainment stuff, 40% cares about learning. People who are truly interested in how the tutorial would work would care enough to pause or rewind. But those who don't, they are more casual, and not gonna stay to read something they don't want, since when that happens, they don't fast forward, they leave. Hence that part goes by fast, it's enough for casual ppl to get the idea: okay the tutorial part is structured.

So as a group almost all essential narration is connected to the visual. When I talk about what I do, i'm showing what I can do. When I talk about patreon, there is the URL. When I talk about lessons, there is the plan structure. When i talk about rewards, there are the rewards in visual form.

Here are the interesting facts, some you mentioned. All data from YT, buzzfeed and patreon collected over god knows how many samples.
1) The faster speech + things change on screen (to a point of course but my vid is no where near the point of diminishing effect) the more primary demographics (below 35) and average to young demo, especially kids, stay on the video. (kids actually have a lot of purchase power since they ask their parents for stuff). Those fast paced video are also more re-watched, If it's enticing and fast. this has the added benefit of high retention rate and view time which are two of the most important video ranking algorithm variables.

2) if your vid doesn't hook or get someone interested in the first 3 to 5 sec, good bye. they are gone. we know this.
3) if at any point in your video, audience gets bored for more than 3 to 5 sec, good bye, they are gone. But if the brain is constantly getting stimulated, they generally stay. This is a world where everyone trained their mind to handle info coming at them from 10 different directions all day. Like you said, people on average have no attention span, no one meditates So I do get straight to the point. I immediately said what I want to do, show why I can do it, then followed by the how.

Now TL has a very specific demographic and I have tested this with other demographics. To quote a 10 yr old " I like the most the part about Talent vs Practice that he explains that I can help you to get better even though you may not be the best. " (man her grammar is worse than mine) Did I mention kids are also the largest group online that generates the most activity and SPENDS A LOT (well their parents but you know what I mean)

Btw this is not me putting the whole video together in a hurry. It is designed to: State my intention, showing my capability to meet my intention and immediately get ppl hooked, then introduce Patreon. Tutorial and reward info are provided at their places as main incentives. It should be fairly logical. The end picture links to something familiar they will see. The whole video begins and ends portrait wise, with two of my most viral videos.

I think the things I mentioned makes sense, and not only this video is able to hold the attention from 9 year olds to 30 year olds, it is able to hold the attention of complete strangers which is the most important part. Yeah I have done polling, and testing, and talked with my marketing friends and web process design friends (some of whom earns near 1M per year, not saying this makes their ideas surely better, but just showing they are not stupid either and knows the business)

In the end would this work well? who the f knows, even everyone admits you don't know anything for sure online these days. For all I know eventually I find out everything Archeon said is the best method. But this at least start from some where. And like I said, it's not the only video I will make on the subject. I can make slower ones to further explain to people who want detail on patreon, or the lesson plans. I would make super short, faster vid for instagram etc.

But really thanks for the feedback, of course I want them to be blunt...otherwise it is kinda useless. I think the big misunderstanding is you assumed the video is for my core viewers, which is not the case at all. For that I just need 1 screen with my Patreon URL. The video is aimed at the much larger untapped people as a kind of support + subscription service, u know, people that if you don't get their attention and interest the 1st time, they are gone. Showing off and the motivation truth are therefore a lot more important. (that motivation video is also one of my highest rated video )

Had this been 2 years ago where I can reach all my subscribers, I can make anything and it would work. Now days it's much tougher so i expect slow start. But one has to give it a shot and hopefully as i release more content the momentum will build. cheers.

On December 13 2017 12:06 Archeon wrote:
I''m gonna be blunt:
If I understand it right, you are trying to advertise patreons as pupils, basically as a sub-community that decides what content you generate.

But what I'm seeing is you showing different projects for over 2 minutes, then you explain your idea for a minute while switching background sheets at amazing speed and then you jump into a motivational speech from a different video for 40 seconds and then go back to advertising patreon without interlude (thought it was part of the other video at first).

The speed at which you switch up pictures is way too high, the explaining diagram at 2:55 which I assume is there to explain your idea is gone 3 seconds later. Along with the sped up art videos it's very hectic. Overall the visual part of the video seems disconnected from the sound, because you try to cram way too much into it. The Overall structure seems like it came out of a spur of the moment because you jump from your idea to other things and back twice.

+ Show Spoiler [suggestions] +

I'd prolly cut the start/showing off part, either completely or down to max 5 pictures with 5 seconds each minimum. People who are watching your videos know that you are a good artist, you don't need to show that. Also your pictures need some time to breathe.
I'd definitely cut out the motivational speech from your talent vs practice video, it seems out of place, your speech pattern is different and let's be honest, the "you are so talented, wish i could draw like that"-people don't believe in their own talent in the first place.
I'd probably develop some sheets that show the idea as a diagram like the one at 2:55 and have them in the background for 10 seconds+ while you explain your patreon community idea.
The last 2 minutes are mostly good. I'd probably slow down the picture of the young man at the end and show only that, I think it's a good recruitment poster and atm you end the video with a 3/4 finished picture of a young woman who doesn't look into the camera (which is also at the top of your patreon page that you show before).

Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
December 13 2017 06:21 GMT
#4
Alright, then maybe I'm just very remote from the target audience. When I was a kid we didn't really watch learning videos on youtube, but kids' internet behavior is a lot different these days. I guess it is supposed to be a trailer in a way then which explains why you rush so much.

I still find it weird to have a voiceover from one video in another video. I know and like your video on talent vs practice, I still would prefer a summary of your thoughts rather than an excerpt, or at least have it either as a closure or start. It feels long and disconnected to me.

And ofc I ended up pausing and jumping back to your diagrams after they were gone, but if you didn't ask for feedback I would have done that twice and then stopped caring.

That being said if you specifically target non-followers especially the beginning makes more sense.
low gravity, yes-yes!
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
December 13 2017 09:09 GMT
#5
I have to agree with not really needing 2 minutes of your videos to show why you're qualified. I think the vast majority of people who would be interested in your content (and even be able to find your content to begin with) will already know who you are (and if they don't, your works are extremely easy to find on the internet). Better to get straight to the point as to what services and products you're offering imo.
:)
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 18:35:31
December 13 2017 14:35 GMT
#6
On December 13 2017 15:21 Archeon wrote:
Alright, then maybe I'm just very remote from the target audience. When I was a kid we didn't really watch learning videos on youtube, but kids' internet behavior is a lot different these days. I guess it is supposed to be a trailer in a way then which explains why you rush so much.

I still find it weird to have a voiceover from one video in another video. I know and like your video on talent vs practice, I still would prefer a summary of your thoughts rather than an excerpt, or at least have it either as a closure or start. It feels long and disconnected to me.

And ofc I ended up pausing and jumping back to your diagrams after they were gone, but if you didn't ask for feedback I would have done that twice and then stopped caring.

That being said if you specifically target non-followers especially the beginning makes more sense.


edit: currently adjusting the video and add some voice (same message but not using the slow mo voice from other video so it feels like one cohesive whole) I think your points are good. Also making lesson structure less overwhelming (removed slides, point them to FAQ) + speed up 2x the early show off part.

edit2: New video is up, refresh page to see version 4


ya i mean if you feel weird and find any part out of place it's reasonable. I can actually just re-record the voice to that part, faster, and there would be no disconnect. Same with the structure, it's like a super quick teaser overview. There just been ppl asking about it. Those who don't care probably would just let it pass and those who care, they might like the extra info. (although I might take out that super dense page, have some kind of FAQ post and just say if you want more detail go there or something) Patreon doesn't have a good FAQ tab otherwise i'll just point it to there. I think this address a bit two of the points u raised.

One of the tough part of trying to make this is that there are two crowds: the entertainment seekers who just like to watch art , and the learners who wants the tutorials. Obviously they have different behaviors & look for different things, and it's not like i should make exact same message video twice to cater to both, well possible but i would wait a long while. I would make it cater to one except it splits kinda 50/50 and you really don't know which crowd works the best. So this first one leans more toward education...It is a pain.

like i mentioned had this been a while back before yt's change, and I know i can reach most of my subscribers, i would not need that 2min intro. A 20 sec: hey guys i want to make tutorials come help out here thing would do. Now, unfortunately nope. One of the comments on one of my videos sums it up nicely "wow i been following you since the beginning, first time seeing your trying digital work", meanwhile I been doing that for a year.

On December 13 2017 18:09 synapse wrote:
I have to agree with not really needing 2 minutes of your videos to show why you're qualified. I think the vast majority of people who would be interested in your content (and even be able to find your content to begin with) will already know who you are (and if they don't, your works are extremely easy to find on the internet). Better to get straight to the point as to what services and products you're offering imo.


right. you guys know my stuff so makes sense that's how you feel. I thought the same. But it's really not that true anymore. Most ppl don't know my stuff, ppl who end up find my videos these days comes from searches and random YT recommendation on the side from other Art Vids (which is pretty bad since there is no established relationship / rapport ) but it is what it is. I have a lot of comments constantly asking me to draw this or that celebrity, of which I already done. There is just way too much content on YT. My main audience doesn't come from the same subscriber pool anymore so to speak, which is a bit sad. Plus this kinda of video with early hook i can potentially make into ads and stuff if need be later on.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-15 04:12:04
December 14 2017 06:05 GMT
#7
I like your v4 much better. The motivational part fits better to the rest of the video before and your small interlude before it helps a lot imo. I think your summary covers the parts that are relevant to the video.
The showing off part feels less dragged out and still gives a good overview (that second still live impresses me every time I see it btw.).
I also like that you kept the slide about your video-generation for longer.

I'd probably add a small interlude linking the end of your motivational part and your "join me on patreon" as well or put the link in an annotation instead of saying it. There is a noticeable break between those two topics.
Overall the video feels a lot more connected to me though.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-14 13:55:03
December 14 2017 13:17 GMT
#8
On December 14 2017 15:05 Archeon wrote:
I like your v4 much better. The motivational part fits better to the rest of the video before and your small interlude before it helps a lot imo. I think your summary covers the parts that are relevant to the video.
The showing off part feels less dragged out and still gives a good overview (that second still live impresses me every time I see it btw.).
I also like that you kept the slide about your video-generation for longer.

I'd probably add a small interlude linking the learning part to the patreon between the end of your motivational part and your "join me on patreon" as well or put the link in an annotation instead of saying it. There is a noticeable break between those two topics.
Overall the video feels a lot more connected to me though.


ya nothing can be perfect we do the best we can. thanks for taking time out to give your feedback. Annotation is gone, youtube is/or already removed that. Old ones stays but you can't add new annotations. (decent reason, it doesn't work on mobile which is now 50%+ of traffic) I'll see if i can easily add something that connect the two topics, if i can't, it's not the worst thing. it's like drawing a picture, it never gets perfect and at some point u just got be like okay this is enough, or you go insane hehe.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
December 14 2017 23:28 GMT
#9
Liking the improvements in v4!
:)
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
December 15 2017 04:20 GMT
#10
On December 14 2017 22:17 Glider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2017 15:05 Archeon wrote:
I like your v4 much better. The motivational part fits better to the rest of the video before and your small interlude before it helps a lot imo. I think your summary covers the parts that are relevant to the video.
The showing off part feels less dragged out and still gives a good overview (that second still live impresses me every time I see it btw.).
I also like that you kept the slide about your video-generation for longer.

I'd probably add a small interlude linking the learning part to the patreon between the end of your motivational part and your "join me on patreon" as well or put the link in an annotation instead of saying it. There is a noticeable break between those two topics.
Overall the video feels a lot more connected to me though.


ya nothing can be perfect we do the best we can. thanks for taking time out to give your feedback. Annotation is gone, youtube is/or already removed that. Old ones stays but you can't add new annotations. (decent reason, it doesn't work on mobile which is now 50%+ of traffic) I'll see if i can easily add something that connect the two topics, if i can't, it's not the worst thing. it's like drawing a picture, it never gets perfect and at some point u just got be like okay this is enough, or you go insane hehe.

Sure, no problem. Not too sad to see annotations die out, the system was mostly used for advertisement.

Honestly surprised that it doesn't work on android, I see zero reason why it shouldn't. Maybe related to the android version of the HTML5-Player.
low gravity, yes-yes!
noname_
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
458 Posts
December 15 2017 11:20 GMT
#11
I`m far away from the topic, but the video is good as it is.
LRM)TechnicS
Profile Joined May 2008
Bulgaria1565 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-16 00:57:16
December 15 2017 23:07 GMT
#12
Hey, Glider

I really appreciate what you do and have been following your work for at least the last 6 years, mainly through the blogs here at TL. The two-handed drawing was perhaps the first drawing that drew me as an audience since it amazed me a lot at the time. I remember chatting with Nazgul on MSN about that Youtube contest. I still feel really good being a part of what you did there with the help of TL.

I pleasantly would like to offer my impressions and feedback – some might appear/come very specific while others on the broad side - about your test video, as per your request. I spent around an hour and a half - 2 hours on this and it came a bit lenghty and I hope I do not sound too specific for your preference/taste (the half a second-second remarks) as I am unaware of the videomaking process and whether that’s possible and how hard it is to accomplish it but here it goes:

+ Show Spoiler +

00:00 – 00:26
Right in the begining, I would feel better having a half a second to a second more on the drawing of the lighted stick right before changing screen, right after you say “That can entertain and ignite your own potential”. I think a slight pause in your speech will come handy too as you start speaking again in a very short span of time and that alone was a bit of a challenge to digest quick enough, not to mention that on top of that there’s a text on the screen ("shamelessly showing stuff") that I have to read as well which makes it harder for me. I would appreciate a half-second to a second more on the text screen just so I can read it in a more calm manner and have time to smile since it is a funny remark.

The screens then shows Emma Watson as 1st pick (nice 1st pick in general I think), then the next woman, then the 3rd drawing feels fine speedwise.
However it becomes too quick again from 00:19 to 00:25 as the next 4 drawings (Digital art one girl included – she is 7th) change too quick and you speed up a little bit your speech. I would appreciate a second or two more here because the drawings + speech + text on top of the drawing is kind of a challenge. Please consider that the first time I watched it I struggled with the fast-pacedness to only feel great when I could just watch and enjoy the work without having to listen and multitask. It felt like a calm after the storm.

From 00:26 up to 1:15 feels a nice moment to digest the information and enjoy your previous work. I think you show a good mixture of your drawings so a wide range of people can hook up.
I really like how you present things afterwards. Consider though that this specific phrase of yours: “Stumbling around in the dark, with random disconnected videos. At best you lose a lot of your precious time” left me with the impression that later on you will offer something that resembled a structured model/approach to teaching that helps the individual level up in a certain way by presenting some prepared lessons/“steps” to climb or something. But then again if somebody wants such an approach I guess he/she can just request it.

I think when you say specifically “Polls, streams, livechat” around the 2:10 mark it shouldn’t be as quick saying it in order for the information to be more digestible since it seems an important part of the teaching process.

At 2:20 when the text “Drawing is a SKILL” appears on screen alongside you saying that “Drawing is a skill” is a very good way to add importance to what you say and to breed confidence in the viewer that he/she can achieve it as well.

The elephant at 2:25 and the mountains, the Phelps comparison alongside everything you say – very nicely done imo because it makes me laugh at the elephant at first and then be even more confident that I can learn to be even as good as you.

03:04-03:07 – I would appreciate half a second to a second more here as I think the information you speak is important but since I try to read the “dreams” message on screen simultaneously, it is hard for me to hear what you said and I can miss on that.

03:20 – 03:30 “As my patreon you have access to additional EXCLUSIVE rewards like…” I think you stress in your speech a bit more on “additional” alongside “exclusive” so someone don’t get confused if he will be taught to learn or just give you money just to paint.

03:31-03:32 – I think if someone is interested in learning drawing you should have a half second-second more on the “tweaks of your artwork” thing as might seem intriguing for the learner.
03:33 – Since the ‘tweak your artwork’ came off too quick, I feel I would appreciate a half second-second more on the ‘and whatever else we can think of’ to appreciate the security that the learner and you might come up with something nice for him to learn.


Overall I really like what I see on the screen and the logic of and the way the information is presented is very good. Also the very thing that you offer should be viewed as valued (as you present your skills briefly) and most importantly surprisingly "reachable" given that you - the fine artist - claim it is possible to become significantly better. I think your genuine desire to teach people is felt with this video and I did not sense you as being "someone doing it for the money only" at any point. The one thing I personally think would be of value to the learner but didn't see it in the video, as mentioned in the spoiler, is to develop a set of structured lessons (or multiple sets eventually) that gradually build up your student's skill and lead him/her to the desired betterment. It is this thing that will assure me that I am not "randomly" searching for answers in youtube or elsewhere, but that I found something comprehensive.

Enjoy the game
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
December 16 2017 16:58 GMT
#13
One thing to edit was that time of silence while you showed the audience a sample of your work. It was nearly 45 seconds long. Way too long to give someone a sample, especially considering 1:15 minutes before the silence was already more of your work.

Reduce that time of silence to 15 seconds. At one point I thought you wouldn't say anything else. If you are going to keep the 45 seconds, prepare the audience by letting them know. Say something like "For now I will stop talking so you can observe some of my content and decide if you like it" After the silence, reopen with this statement "Now that you've had a glimpse of my passion, I want to talk more about...."

I will watch it again to provide more feedback.
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
December 19 2017 15:36 GMT
#14
Thanks guys, very informative.
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