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On December 10 2017 19:43 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2017 17:25 Shady Sands wrote:
Sure... Flash went late-mech to counter Clam 9 days later, you're going to say it's all Fantasy?
If you count partial biomech, Fantasy went biomech switch counter against Jeadong in 2009 SPL FINAL with his tank banking. So he is STILL earier user. And oov can be considered even earlier user too. Also, many earier late games where terran used heavy tank tactic in late game can be credited too. Hell, FBH vs Savior can be called mech switch, as he had a 3 factories built at one point XD
If you say that, it makes Letmelose's earlier point meaningless. I'm willing to accept that =)
The thing is, "true" mech switch was Fantasy vs Zero, not Flash vs Calm. It was Fantasy's game the first with intention to early infantry use and ditching it once the transition kick in to enter the lategame. Flash was building mnm's throu whole game in that semifinal against Calm, it was pretty standard (thou unusual with factory numbers) and was anywhere what can be called a switch. The mech switch is all about keeping early pressure by mnms and than switch entirely into mech units to counter standard zerg late game. What Flash did was late biomech with unusual heavy tank numbers and not a mech switch.
Actually, the mech switch is all about doing a double expansion and adding factories while the Z is going from defiler/lurker/ling to ultra/ling
Also, FvC game lacks the critical by-the-book mech switch tactics that is characteristic for the metagame, like heavy use of spider mines to control the map and general use of tanks is less aggresive than in typical mech switch.
lawl, keep up the Flash hate bro, it'll get you places
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On December 11 2017 06:25 Shady Sands wrote:
Actually, the mech switch is all about doing a double expansion and adding factories while the Z is going from defiler/lurker/ling to ultra/ling
The build you are confusing with the late-mech strategy is known as the Neo SK Terran build in Korean communities, and is known for its heavy focus on siege tanks to combat the zerg in the late game. Players such as Leta were already implementing these builds in 2009, although Flash did pull the strategy off brilliantly against Calm in the semi-finals of EVER OGN StarLeague.
+ Show Spoiler +
Late-mech and Neo SK Terran builds may seem identical in your eyes, but have been distinguished by members of the Korean community for quite some time. You are welcome to suggest your own ideas, but the best way to put me in my place would be by contributing useful information that goes contrary to what I say, you have the latter down, now focus on the former.
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the best way to put me in my place would be by contributing useful information that goes contrary to what I say
Wrong, you've just proven you're full of bias, and what I will do is make sure every single post of yours with cherry-picked "stats" is followed by one of mine to make sure that all readers are aware of your bias.
It's a cost-efficient, time-efficient way to neutralize your attempts to diminish God.
Edit: You want to change my mind? Write a post that tells us all why Flash was able to completely dominate everyone from Dec 2009 to September 2010, and why he continues to rape face today.
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On December 10 2017 17:25 Shady Sands wrote:
only Flash has shifted the meta-game
And you really want to accuse other people of bias?!
There is maybe an argument that the heavier vulture usage that gets involved in the lategame TvZ mech switch is down to Flash. I remember back when BW was big, it was all about just putting factories in a corner of the map and banking tanks, and these days the transition is much more smooth and handled with mines. I don't know who to credit that to but Flash is certainly a primary example of pulling off the style and the one I think of specifically when it comes to that heavier vulture usage.
Is this a major metagame shift that defined a matchup? I'd say no, and giving Fantasy credit for the mech switch in general is still fine.
The one who is coming across biased here is you, well and truly.
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On December 11 2017 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +the best way to put me in my place would be by contributing useful information that goes contrary to what I say Wrong, you've just proven you're full of bias, and what I will do is make sure every single post of yours with cherry-picked "stats" is followed by one of mine to make sure that all readers are aware of your bias. It's a cost-efficient, time-efficient way to neutralize your attempts to diminish God. Edit: You want to change my mind? Write a post that tells us all why Flash was able to completely dominate everyone from Dec 2009 to September 2010, and why he continues to rape face today.
I'm sure that in your mind, confusing clearly distinguishable strategies, and insisting on people to acknowledge games from Flash that were played later than the games that I've mentioned are the best ways of exposing my extreme bias against Flash.
This blog has been visited by several people who were kind of enough to shed information on stuff I didn't know, and pertinent information were edited in to my original post. The same cannot be said for you, although you do hammer in the same useless points over and over again. I appreciate the effort you've put in, but quite clearly having substance in your posts is not your forte.
If only you could match your passion with actual information, then you wouldn't need me to write essays regarding Flash.
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Also Letmelose, I really love all the thoughtful posts you contribute to these boards. I'm especially so glad that someone can see the amazing qualities of Stork and Jangbi and spell it out all so clearly, though that was somewhere else and not really relevant to this thread. Anyways, thanks for the blog!
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Great blog, but keep in mind that the "immediate impact on the MU" is not measured in percent but rather percentage points (pp). It would please my eyes a great deal if you changed that part :D
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On December 11 2017 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +the best way to put me in my place would be by contributing useful information that goes contrary to what I say Wrong, you've just proven you're full of bias, and what I will do is make sure every single post of yours with cherry-picked "stats" is followed by one of mine to make sure that all readers are aware of your bias.
He wasnt proven anything, but please, continue. Making a hypocrite from yourself at every post with bias accusation is a pleasant bonus 
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Norway28908 Posts
Also echoing the sentiment that I love your posts letmelose, they are actually insightful as opposed to merely opinionated.
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lol all the Flash haters coming out of the woodwork as usual.
He wasnt proven anything
lol yes he has
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Norway28908 Posts
I think Flash is literally the greatest gamer of all time regardless of game. It does not mean he's the only one to influence the meta-game, wtf.
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Don't know what you're on about Shady Sands... I'm the opposite of Flash hater and appreciate Letmelose's posts.
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On December 10 2017 17:25 Shady Sands wrote:
Flash went late-mech to counter Clam 9 days later, you're going to say it's all Fantasy?
Actually It's a myth that late-mech is needed to counter Clam. In fact all you need is bio, aka your hands.
The following is a clear counter to Clam that completely shifted the HvC (Human vs Clam) metagame:
1. Wait until the tide rolls out.
2. Dig up Clam from the sand.
3. Cook and eat. GG.
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EPT
